OK, ZOS, you win...

Aendruu

As a relatively new player of MMOs, I found it strange that even after paying for this game I always felt I was playing the same FTP experience that I encountered in LOTRO and SWTOR. So out of curiosity I took a month's subscription, and discovered the delights of the craft bag and inventory/bank extensions etc... and now I'm playing a completely different (and altogether more enjoyable) game! So after months of juggling crafting characters, bank mules and spending every last gold piece I earned on bank and inventory size upgrades, I have to concede that ZOS has won.

It's an very extremely dirty trick, ZOS, but I'm sure you're happy that it succeeds... presumably very often. However, please bear in mind that we, the players, are not an inexhaustible resource, and no matter how much I'm enjoying the ESO+ experience, it's not one that I can afford on a monthly basis and will therefore not be repeated. I can only assume that I'm not alone in this sentiment.

daemonios

The problem with ZOS' approach is that not only are you strongly encouraged to subscribe, but even after you do they keep bugging you with clown store stuff, and you get to watch actual content quality go down the drain while every week the store seems to have new "content".

I am not touching another MMO that doesn't have a mandatory subscription or that has an in-game store. I'm sorry you can't afford your sub every month, but for me the negative impact of allowing some people to play for free far exceeds the benefits. If a game has to fold for lack of sufficient subs, so be it.

Aendruu

Please don't think I'm advocating for an FTP model for ESO... far from it. I merely think it's exploitative that having paid for the game, we still only have FTP-style "privileges", while to truly experience it we have to pay yet again. I certainly understand that ZOS needs income, and this post was essentially a congratulatory one. The technique may be Machiavellian, but it's undeniably effective.

Artemiisia

yeah the craft bag sub = ease your suffering approach works for sure

Tandor

The game has to paid for beyond the initial purchase price which is commonly discounted heavily these days anyway. As such there's nothing wrong with incentivising players to subscribe on a regular basis as it provides certainty of revenue compared with occasional Crown Store purchases or playing for free.

If you do make Crown Store purchases then it's generally better to subscribe anyway as the cost of the subscription is covered by the free Crowns that come with it, and there's less to buy anyway as DLCs are also included. Of course I do understand that not everyone can afford regular payments for a game and for them the best option may be occasional Crown Store purchases funded by Crowns bought when they're on sale. I don't think casual spenders can expect the same benefits as regular subscribers, but while many F2P/B2P games fall well into the P2W trap this is something that ZOS have been pretty successful in avoiding in my view. I do wish they hadn't put skill points in the Crown Store but that's a different argument altogether.

VaranisArano

Inventory management really is a perfect example of "working as intended."

Either you invest money through subscribing or you invest time in managing or acquiring the tools that make managing your inventory easier, like bank space, bag space, mules, and storage chests. MMOs like ESO thrive on players investing money or players investing time, so it's really an elegant solution for ZOS.

(Not the most player friendly solution, mind you, but certainly one that works out well for ZOS.)

Zer0_CooL

If only the game wouldn't be that broken, so the sub would be worth it not only for the crafting bag.

wsmith97ub17_ESO

How DARE they operate a for profit business!

Someone notify chairman Mao!

Kiralyn2000

daemonios wrote: »

The problem with ZOS' approach is that not only are you strongly encouraged to subscribe, but even after you do they keep bugging you with clown store stuff

You realize that the subscription comes with a bunch of "clowns" every month, so they kind of need to supply things for subscribers to spend that on. Otherwise that 'perk' of ESO+ has no value.

(and since subscribers have 'clowns' to burn, there's a reason for them to "keep bugging you" about it.)

Coppes

I think your problem is that you think F2P mode is anything other than a trial mode.

I’m actual more annoyed that ZoS offers a subscription service in a B2P game. And then locks such a vital service (Craft Bag) behind it to make it look better.

While in other MMOs, what would be a ‘Craft Bag’ is given for free.

Kombinator

Rhypon wrote: »

Please don't think I'm advocating for an FTP model for ESO... far from it. I merely think it's exploitative that having paid for the game, we still only have FTP-style "privileges", while to truly experience it we have to pay yet again. I certainly understand that ZOS needs income, and this post was essentially a congratulatory one. The technique may be Machiavellian, but it's undeniably effective.

Laughs in WoW.

But to be correct there is a reason, that most MMO at least strongly encourages continuous payment. And the reason is behind the maintenance cost. ZOS pays a LOT to keep the servers running, and it need money continuously for the upkeep cost. Even if there were no new content it still costs money.

Old host-client working games, and single player games are different. In those cases the dev. has no extra cost beyond making the game. At all. At least not mandatory costs. They often crate DLCs, and patches, but those are the devs. decision, and not required for the game to work. Unless they public it with some serious issues.

Tigerseye

The issue for me is that, even if you pay your sub consistently, too many things are still only available via the Crown store.

If you pay a sub that rivals the all-inclusive (or virtually all-inclusive) subs of other games, you shouldn't then have to buy lots of other things via a store, all the time, as well.

Shantu

I'm not a big fan of ZOS and some of the ways they do business and design their game, but the administration of ESO+ is not one of them. A 6 month sub costs about 45 cents a day. I spend more on one trip to the grocery store than I do a 6 month subscription.

Tigerseye

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

The problem with ZOS' approach is that not only are you strongly encouraged to subscribe, but even after you do they keep bugging you with clown store stuff

You realize that the subscription comes with a bunch of "clowns" every month, so they kind of need to supply things for subscribers to spend that on. Otherwise that 'perk' of ESO+ has no value.

(and since subscribers have 'clowns' to burn, there's a reason for them to "keep bugging you" about it.)

Yeah, but it's not a lot of Crowns per month, relative to the amount of things there are to buy.

It gets better with time, admittedly, when you have caught up a bit -- but, at first, you would have a pretty bland game experience if you never bought any extra Crowns.

Darkenarlol

when 15$/month is too much and pricy...

maybe it is better to sort out your IRL problems

than to play games and complain on forums?


no offence, just some logic

Coppes

Darkenarlol wrote: »

when 15$/month is too much and pricy...

maybe it is better to sort out your IRL problems

than to play games and complain on forums?


no offence, just some logic

If that’s the case then why not make the game subscription only?

People don’t like recurring payments which is why some magazine subscription services end up going out of business.

Many end up forgetting that they’re subscribed over a break and leave the sub on for months or years.

Casul

Dropping craft bag was the best decision I made. It forced me to stop hoarding materials so I got into selling and that is how I learned to make money on ESO.

m7a3t5

Yup. I have such inventory problems. Even with my own guild bank and ESO+

... so maybe that's a me issue XD

Cavedog

I think most will agree, it feels like being taken advantage of. However, this game does have a cost to maintain and keep live, so the costs to keep the game active is ongoing, so ongoing costs do make sense to at least a limited degree. We all probably have slightly different ideas of what we want our money to go towards, but it's kind of like paying taxes. It sucks, but it keeps the game running and us playing. It's kind of strong arming the player, but the player gets a lot out of it, and ZOS for sure has enough money to keep the ball rolling AND buy a new car this way.

AgaTheGreat

Eso plus is a VERY affordable way to support eso. It only gives you benefits and the same amount of money in crowns. I think it's a good value to maintain the servers.

I completely support this idea.

What I don't personally support is gambling through crown crates. But it's up to the individual how they spend their hard earned money. I never get crates and never buy additional crowns.

stewhead2ub17_ESO

Spaceroamer wrote: »

I think your problem is that you think F2P mode is anything other than a trial mode.

I’m actual more annoyed that ZoS offers a subscription service in a B2P game. And then locks such a vital service (Craft Bag) behind it to make it look better.

While in other MMOs, what would be a ‘Craft Bag’ is given for free.

The Craft Bag is not a "vital service". It is indeed a fabulous perk for subbing, but not essential. Further, I have played many MMO's and can't recall one that had such a limitless craft bag given for free. Please enlighten me, perhaps I just forgot. Personally I am very satisfied with what I get for my plus membership.

Cpt_Teemo

If you had a sub on Swtor you could buy the storage increases with credits in game not technically free but once you unlock them they're on your account forever and not only one server but all servers if you buy the (Account unlock) ones

Also you don't need a sub to keep them active either, once active its done

Anotherone773

People dont realize the ongoing cost of running an MMO. The salaries alone will be well over a a million alone for all of the support. Then you have all the cost associated with an office building. Data center cost for the servers. If its outsourced it will be a lease, if its in house it will be a datacenter in the basement that consumes as much power as a small neighborhood to a small city. That room has to be temp and humidity controlled. It has to have A/C pretty much constantly because of the generous amount of heat produced by the hardware.

That is what the crown store and subs pay for. When you buy the game or a chapter or whatever, you are paying for the development of the part of the game.

The B2P/F2P/P4U model works because despite only costing 50 cents a day, some people dont feel that is a good investment of 2 quarters. Other players can and do more. Some might spend $30 a month on two accounts. Some might buy crowns when they go on sale, Some might buy x amount crowns a month, and some make Moby *** look like a minnow.

When it comes to FTP/MT models, 10% of the players pay for the entire game while 90% play for free. Obviously, in ESO the amount will be higher of people paying for the game, but id say probably a good chunk will still be free players.


If it was a forced sub, there would be fewer players and lower revenue generation which can lead to a game going under. So this current model is the " everyone wins" even if the free players dont think they win. You get what you pay for. Pay for nothing, get nothing.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

We've removed some comments due to bashing, please keep the threads constructive and on topic. To review our community rules, you may find them here.

Cpt_Teemo

Would be nice if they let you unlock the craft bag per server rather than relying on a sub, price it at like 15k crowns or around there seems like a fair deal to unlock it permanently without a sub as an alternate root for those with no subs.

jazsper77

Warframe- larger player base and more complex then ESO and I have over 100 million items in my storage free of charge.
Boy that they have to make a profit joke. Warframe our grows ESO daily and adds more content regularly and its all FREE.

But we can just keep doing the defending thing.

jircris11

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

If only the game wouldn't be that broken, so the sub would be worth it not only for the crafting bag.

You think eso is broke go play some other MASSIVELY p2w Korean mmos then we will talk. Honestly I don't have half the issues ppl complain about, and most the ones I do have are add on related.

Vercingetorix

Every subscription empowers ZoS to ignore player needs without repercussions. For folks complaining about the state of the game, some of you fail to look at your own wallet as the root cause. Companies are beholden to shareholders and without a loss in profit, they will not be motivated to fix anything.

Dreddnawt

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Would be nice if they let you unlock the craft bag per server rather than relying on a sub, price it at like 15k crowns or around there seems like a fair deal to unlock it permanently without a sub as an alternate root for those with no subs.

Perma Craft Bag would devalue ESO+ big time as that is essentially its biggest draw. Personally i cant play without craftbag anymore. Full on mat hording junkie here.

But lets be fair people, of all MMO subs ESO+ is THE ONLY ONE i fully 1000% endorse:
+Its inexpensive to begin with,
+PLUS 110% value for your $$ just in crowns,
+PLUS Free access to every DLC,
+PLUS XP/IP/Research bonuses that stack with all others,
+PLUS Free shwag offered regularly in the "clown" store,
+PLUS CraftBag alone is insanely worth it (and wold sub just for that).

Additionally, consider what your monthly expenses would be WITHOUT ESO. For me that $15 means im NOT buying/renting movies or games online, NOT spending hundreds out at bars clubs or theaters, NOT going out for expensive dinners or concerts, NOT getting mugged while roofied in a back alley somewhere.....

How much more benefit do we really need from an MMO subscription?

Decimus_Rex

Rhypon wrote: »

As a relatively new player of MMOs, I found it strange that even after paying for this game I always felt I was playing the same FTP experience that I encountered in LOTRO and SWTOR. So out of curiosity I took a month's subscription, and discovered the delights of the craft bag and inventory/bank extensions etc... and now I'm playing a completely different (and altogether more enjoyable) game! So after months of juggling crafting characters, bank mules and spending every last gold piece I earned on bank and inventory size upgrades, I have to concede that ZOS has won.

It's an very extremely dirty trick, ZOS, but I'm sure you're happy that it succeeds... presumably very often. However, please bear in mind that we, the players, are not an inexhaustible resource, and no matter how much I'm enjoying the ESO+ experience, it's not one that I can afford on a monthly basis and will therefore not be repeated. I can only assume that I'm not alone in this sentiment.

They aint stupid.
I've been hooked EldarCrack now since beta.

eklhaftb16_ESO

Darkenarlol wrote: »

when 15$/month is too much and pricy...

maybe it is better to sort out your IRL problems

than to play games and complain on forums?

Just becase I can afford to spend $15 every month, it doesn't mean I want to spend $15 every month. Or, as we say over here, "The difference between having $15 and spending $15 is $30."

Frankly, the value just isn't there for me. The crown stipend is too low compared to prices in the store; the access to DLCs is worth nothing because I already own all DLCs I want to own; the much-advertised ESO+ exclusives turned out to be just housing clutter; and the crafting bag, while useful, isn't nearly good enough to be worth $15 on its own.