I hate animation canceling.

SidraWillowsky

I guarantee that you can do all trials and all normal dungeons without animation canceling. Even the vet Craglorn trials and many vet dungeons are doable. I think that 25k DPS is more than enough to clear almost all game content fairly comfortably.

To everyone saying they can't do it who doesn't have a medical condition preventing them- how much have you practiced? Do me a favor and try parsing five times per day (three mil dummy is fine), three days per week for three weeks and see where that gets you. You don't even have to do a full rotation- practice weaving single skills, especially your spammable.

The good news is that once it becomes muscle memory, you don't need to practice much. A solid 90% of the parses I've done have been to fine-tune my rotation and improve my DPS by small amounts. The big jump will happen once you get the hang of it.

Tigerseye

daemonios wrote: »

eleussinkb16_ESO wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

, maybe you need to find a game that better suits you.

i refuse to pay money for a product that doesn't play well.

That's a matter of opinion, not fact.

xbobx15 wrote: »

what he is saying is, it was initially an exploit - which it was and admitted to by Zos - but so many people did it they just decided to just make it part of the game instead of fixing it.

so he is not wrong on that part. Developers usually fix exploits not mold them into a feature.

Source, please? Also, regardless of whether it was initially intended, emergent gameplay is a thing, and often encouraged. It makes the game better IMO, so the fact that ZOS left it in is a good thing.

Why not Google your own source?

We're not in a 1950s classroom where, if someone can't provide a source, no one knows if a piece of info is true, or not.

We're, literally, on the place that has all the info we could possibly need.

Stebarnz

More people want a/c than don't want it so....

Probably best you play a slow, turn based combat game so you can keep up and be 'immersed' also you wont get 'injured'.

Tigerseye

Stebarnz wrote: »

More people want a/c than don't want it so....

Says who?

Forum polls that only feature the people that didn't already leave the game?

AgaTheGreat

Tigerseye wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

More people want a/c than don't want it so....

Says who?

Forum polls that only feature the people that didn't already leave the game?

Everyone who doesn't feel the need to write stupid threads about the removal of animation cancelling. So majority of forum users.

Tigerseye

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

More people want a/c than don't want it so....

Says who?

Forum polls that only feature the people that didn't already leave the game?

Everyone who doesn't feel the need to write stupid threads about the removal of animation cancelling. So majority of forum users.

Forum users aren't "more people".

Assuming more effectively means most, in this context.

They're not even most players.

The fact is, they're only a tiny proportion of current players.

Almost none of them will be former players, who left because of AC.

AgaTheGreat

Tigerseye wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

More people want a/c than don't want it so....

Says who?

Forum polls that only feature the people that didn't already leave the game?

Everyone who doesn't feel the need to write stupid threads about the removal of animation cancelling. So majority of forum users.

Forum users aren't "more people".

They're not even most players.

The fact is, they're only a tiny proportion of current players.

Almost none of them will be former players, who left because of AC.

No-one left because of animation cancelling. This is not something to leave a game for. Lack of time, other interests, guild break ups... But not AC.

Coppes

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

More people want a/c than don't want it so....

Says who?

Forum polls that only feature the people that didn't already leave the game?

Everyone who doesn't feel the need to write stupid threads about the removal of animation cancelling. So majority of forum users.

Forum users aren't "more people".

They're not even most players.

The fact is, they're only a tiny proportion of current players.

Almost none of them will be former players, who left because of AC.

No-one left because of animation cancelling. This is not something to leave a game for. Lack of time, other interests, guild break ups... But not AC.

I know a few people from my guild (multi-game) and talking about ESO in other MMOs (mainly SWTOR) who left ESO because of the terrible combat/AC.

I even left for a good while because of animation cancelling.

Saying otherwise is kinda ridiculous.

AgaTheGreat

It seems to me that AC is something that you never understood, found it difficult and weren't able to find any counter play. I would have left a game I was bad at too. So you're right, there might be some people who left thanks to animation cancelling. Small loss if you ask me.

hmsdragonfly

xbobx15 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

Yes, take away the fast paced combat that sets ESO apart from all the other cash-grabbing gasha MMOs out there. What could possibly go wrong?

I'm not saying there aren't issues, and in fact ZOS have tried to address one (block desyncs) on the latest PTS build. But in the end, basic animation cancelling is trivial to pull off. You don't need a perfect rotation and 99th percentile DPS to enjoy the game. If it really ruffles your feathers this much, maybe you need to find a game that better suits you.

what he is saying is, it was initially an exploit - which it was and admitted to by Zos - but so many people did it they just decided to just make it part of the game instead of fixing it.

so he is not wrong on that part. Developers usually fix exploits not mold them into a feature.

Tell that to combos in fighting games.

MEBengalsFan2001

daemonios wrote: »

Yes, take away the fast paced combat that sets ESO apart from all the other cash-grabbing gasha MMOs out there. What could possibly go wrong?

I'm not saying there aren't issues, and in fact ZOS have tried to address one (block desyncs) on the latest PTS build. But in the end, basic animation cancelling is trivial to pull off. You don't need a perfect rotation and 99th percentile DPS to enjoy the game. If it really ruffles your feathers this much, maybe you need to find a game that better suits you.

Every MMO I have played has some type of animation cancelling built within the game. Some games have solved this issue by making damage only apply after the animation completes. This ensure player don't cancel the animation.

However, right on a load screen I got a message tell me to use my ability or light attack to cancel the animation and that the damage I would do with that ability would still apply.

Instead of trying to fix it; ESO has embraced this as part of the game.

hmsdragonfly

@eleussinkb16_ESO you don't have to AC to play this game. Even without AC you can still have enough dps to complete all base game vet dungeons. Since you don't have any DLC anyway, not being able to do vet DLC dungeons doesn't matter at all.

So yeah you can't do vet trials as a dps (can still tank without attack weaving, block cancel is much easier than attack weave) and you can't do vet DLC dungeons as a dps, that's about it, you can still do 90% of the content.
Maybe PvP too, but you don't seem like the type who are into competitive pvp anyway so why bother.

Stebarnz

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

@eleussinkb16_ESO you don't have to AC to play this game. Even without AC you can still have enough dps to complete all base game vet dungeons. Since you don't have any DLC anyway, not being able to do vet DLC dungeons doesn't matter at all.

So yeah you can't do vet trials as a dps (can still tank without attack weaving, block cancel is much easier than attack weave) and you can't do vet DLC dungeons as a dps, that's about it, you can still do 90% of the content.
Maybe PvP too, but you don't seem like the type who are into competitive pvp anyway so why bother.

Great point! a/c is voluntary you don't HAVE to do it!

People who want it removed are people who cant do it so want the skill ceiling lowered or dps capped, in other words the kind of people who want a participation award. Or immersion delvers who just rp.

I cant run the 100m in sub 10 seconds so I want everyone to have concrete spikes on to slow them down to my speed because I don't want anyone to be better than me!

Bad attitude!

Floyd_Stash

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

No-one left because of animation cancelling. This is not something to leave a game for. Lack of time, other interests, guild break ups... But not AC.

This statement is easily declared false, as i am someone, and i made this topic and i quit because of AC.
Your comment is, sorry to say, a little silly.
Also i'm glad you don't care about a small loss of players, but unfortunatly i'm pretty sure ZoS does care.
Especially if those "small losses" hold a value of 100 dollar per person on average being spent to the developement of this game. let's say ESO has 1 million players of which 1% has quit to AC(your small loss), it would be only hmm 1 million dollar loss. Phew.. only a small loss fortunatly

@Tigerseye is correct, the fact that i have not played this game in years and come back now to enlighten the ZoS of my complaint, is in itself a 1/1000 chance a player will do this. As it's much much easier to just not care about this game at all.
Is that the solution i want? not caring? .. no. i care because i love elder scrolls.

@hmsdragonfly i have no problem with combat games that have combo's, the combo's arent done by weaving. it's a difference i'm sure you understand that if you take a closer look at what the issue here really is. Also i can't remember for example mortal kombat canceling any animations to get multiple punches off while the character only stands still and jitters.

@MEBengalsFan2001 i don't think embracing an exploit as a feature makes it any less an exploit or an issue. Which is why i made this topic, as i cannot and will not accept embracing this clunky gameplay style.

daemonios

Tigerseye wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

eleussinkb16_ESO wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

, maybe you need to find a game that better suits you.

i refuse to pay money for a product that doesn't play well.

That's a matter of opinion, not fact.

xbobx15 wrote: »

what he is saying is, it was initially an exploit - which it was and admitted to by Zos - but so many people did it they just decided to just make it part of the game instead of fixing it.

so he is not wrong on that part. Developers usually fix exploits not mold them into a feature.

Source, please? Also, regardless of whether it was initially intended, emergent gameplay is a thing, and often encouraged. It makes the game better IMO, so the fact that ZOS left it in is a good thing.

Why not Google your own source?

We're not in a 1950s classroom where, if someone can't provide a source, no one knows if a piece of info is true, or not.

We're, literally, on the place that has all the info we could possibly need.

That's not how any of this works. You make a claim, you support it. I'm happy to argue with people with different opinions. Not gonna make it a research project, though.

Coppes

hmsdragonfly wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

Yes, take away the fast paced combat that sets ESO apart from all the other cash-grabbing gasha MMOs out there. What could possibly go wrong?

I'm not saying there aren't issues, and in fact ZOS have tried to address one (block desyncs) on the latest PTS build. But in the end, basic animation cancelling is trivial to pull off. You don't need a perfect rotation and 99th percentile DPS to enjoy the game. If it really ruffles your feathers this much, maybe you need to find a game that better suits you.

what he is saying is, it was initially an exploit - which it was and admitted to by Zos - but so many people did it they just decided to just make it part of the game instead of fixing it.

so he is not wrong on that part. Developers usually fix exploits not mold them into a feature.

Tell that to combos in fighting games.

Animation cancelling in fighting games are implemented properly, not by mistake like ESO.

Animation cancelling is in implemented properly in some MMOs properly like SWTOR (with some abilities being off the GCD and cancelling channeled animations).

Floyd_Stash

@daemonios since i cannot quickly find the source, i would like to let you know that i personally backup his claim of it being recognized by ZoS as an exploit and later turned into a feature due to the fact that it's rather hard to fix.

Now.. if your need for confirmation and proof has not yet been satisfied i would suggest that you do your own research or else stop claiming it to be false. We have no obligation to enlighten your mind to the rather obvious facts of life... or eso.

Starlock

@eleussinkb16_ESO - you might want to check out the game after this next patch. I'm not allowed to PTS, but from what I hear they are going to be smoothing out a lot of the animations and making the animation cancelling much more fluid and realistic (aka, what is happening on your screen will match up much better with what the game is calculating). They aren't making your abilities not fire when you cancel yet, but we can hope that's coming down the road. Some day, when you block an incoming blow and don't complete your sword swing, your sword may fail to do damage as one would logically expect!

MEBengalsFan2001

eleussinkb16_ESO wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

No-one left because of animation cancelling. This is not something to leave a game for. Lack of time, other interests, guild break ups... But not AC.

This statement is easily declared false, as i am someone, and i made this topic and i quit because of AC.
Your comment is, sorry to say, a little silly.
Also i'm glad you don't care about a small loss of players, but unfortunatly i'm pretty sure ZoS does care.
Especially if those "small losses" hold a value of 100 dollar per person on average being spent to the developement of this game. let's say ESO has 1 million players of which 1% has quit to AC(your small loss), it would be only hmm 1 million dollar loss. Phew.. only a small loss fortunatly

@Tigerseye is correct, the fact that i have not played this game in years and come back now to enlighten the ZoS of my complaint, is in itself a 1/1000 chance a player will do this. As it's much much easier to just not care about this game at all.
Is that the solution i want? not caring? .. no. i care because i love elder scrolls.

@hmsdragonfly i have no problem with combat games that have combo's, the combo's arent done by weaving. it's a difference i'm sure you understand that if you take a closer look at what the issue here really is. Also i can't remember for example mortal kombat canceling any animations to get multiple punches off while the character only stands still and jitters.

@MEBengalsFan2001 i don't think embracing an exploit as a feature makes it any less an exploit or an issue. Which is why i made this topic, as i cannot and will not accept embracing this clunky gameplay style.

The games that adjusted their design to remove animation cancelling end up with many good players leaving the game. I never said I personally agree with animation cancelling. I dislike it but at the same time instead of spending their resources on fixing the issue they use that freed time to add more content and new market place items. I rather the devs fix bugs in dungeons or overland content, create new content, and give more items in the market place than spend time trying to fix the animation cancelling. Noticed I said trying to fix it as most games that tried to fix it, end up breaking other parts of the game and that took months and years to fix.

AgaTheGreat

eleussinkb16_ESO wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

No-one left because of animation cancelling. This is not something to leave a game for. Lack of time, other interests, guild break ups... But not AC.

This statement is easily declared false, as i am someone, and i made this topic and i quit because of AC.
Your comment is, sorry to say, a little silly.
Also i'm glad you don't care about a small loss of players, but unfortunatly i'm pretty sure ZoS does care.
Especially if those "small losses" hold a value of 100 dollar per person on average being spent to the developement of this game. let's say ESO has 1 million players of which 1% has quit to AC(your small loss), it would be only hmm 1 million dollar loss. Phew.. only a small loss fortunatly

1. You didn't seem to quit and move on if this topic is any indication.
2. Is it silly though? What is silly is quitting over animation cancelling. AC is a completely optional thing to do.
3. No, zos doesn't care. They have more money from people who don't care about AC but what their homes look like.
4. Like I said, animation cancelling isn't something to quit for. However jealousy that others can do it and do it to play competitively is. So what is it. Did you "quit" because of AC / weaving or because you couldn't do it?

I don't think you're honest in saying AC made you quit. Inability to properly use it, not understanding how to use it or maybe laziness to learn did.

TequilaFire

Cute story OP I will give you one for creativity.
But in the end it is just another cover up for starting a baiting drama filled thread.

Floyd_Stash

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

The games that adjusted their design to remove animation cancelling end up with many good players leaving the game. I never said I personally agree with animation cancelling. I dislike it but at the same time instead of spending their resources on fixing the issue they use that freed time to add more content and new market place items. I rather the devs fix bugs in dungeons or overland content, create new content, and give more items in the market place than spend time trying to fix the animation cancelling. Noticed I said trying to fix it as most games that tried to fix it, end up breaking other parts of the game and that took months and years to fix.

i would highly appreciate if you could clarify your statement with some examples that i can research their validity.
Ofcourse you don't have to but your giving quite a broad statement that in no way seems to be verifyable.
i'm talking ofcourse about "The games", what games? and .. "many good players" which players and what was their contribution to the game. as in, were they esports league players? or were they highly time invested market players that kept the economy stable or something like that.

Not trying to brag but i too am a real hardcore player, which invests almost 12 hours per day of my time in games. I greatly participate in events and i stream now and then. This could.. in your words.. be considered a "many good players" and in my case i left because of this issue, not because of the fix.

My point here is with a little verb changing your entire statement can be made valid for my cause aswell.

Floyd_Stash

@AgaTheGreat i'm very glad that you are able to decide what or what isn't a reason to quit for people other than yourself, you should try and monetize on this somehow. i'm sure such skills are very valuable.

Also i'd like you to know that i'm very honest about this subject.

PizzaCat82

This is a RPG, not a fighting game. I hear people on voice chat going off on their controller like they're having a seizure, and I feel like we've lost track of what good combat mechanics are in a game like this.

Floyd_Stash

@starlock i just went for a smoke and youtubed a bit, and you seem to be somewhat correct.
Next patch perhaps we will see an introduction to the demise of animation canceling and it would please me greatly.
Hell i might even dare to make the molag bal statue the center of attention in my livingroom again. fingers crossed.

Floyd_Stash

TequilaFire wrote: »

Cute story OP I will give you one for creativity.
But in the end it is just another cover up for starting a baiting drama filled thread.

dude you should've read it before mods came in and blew all the trash away (some of mine included but what do we players care right? they're the ones being paid to clean up the mess we make)

Floyd_Stash

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

This is a RPG, not a fighting game. I hear people on voice chat going off on their controller like they're having a seizure, and I feel like we've lost track of what good combat mechanics are in a game like this.

i agree with your statement so much, to honor it i will eat pizza now.

Wifeaggro13

daemonios wrote: »

Yes, take away the fast paced combat that sets ESO apart from all the other cash-grabbing gasha MMOs out there. What could possibly go wrong?

I'm not saying there aren't issues, and in fact ZOS have tried to address one (block desyncs) on the latest PTS build. But in the end, basic animation cancelling is trivial to pull off. You don't need a perfect rotation and 99th percentile DPS to enjoy the game. If it really ruffles your feathers this much, maybe you need to find a game that better suits you.

The combat in this game is sub par saying animation canceling makes it better .while true it does. It's also a direct evidence of how poorly thought out design concepts were and still are. Central fact is ani canceling directly correlates to dps and eso is a one trick pony. It only relies o. Dps as content design. Roles of tanking and healing are sub roles and utility , Cc are non existent.

Freakin_Hytte

eleussinkb16_ESO wrote: »

AgaTheGreat wrote: »

No-one left because of animation cancelling. This is not something to leave a game for. Lack of time, other interests, guild break ups... But not AC.

@MEBengalsFan2001 i don't think embracing an exploit as a feature makes it any less an exploit or an issue. Which is why i made this topic, as i cannot and will not accept embracing this clunky gameplay style.

Then don't, just leave. You cry about how you leave and go back, just leave. Play skyrim, or mod the *** out of oblivion and play that again if you want to play an elder scrolls game. There's no point in going on the forum ranting how you don't like this "exploit", the developers won't cater to the small minority that doesn't like AC, they have already said that.

So there's absolutely no point in this thread.

StormeReigns

Hmmm. Interesting thread. Not really sure what to make of it.
Guess I'll share my story as well.

Animation Canceling, it's a pain. As well, it is a non-issue.

On top of primarily being deaf. I suffer from Rheumatoid Arthritis, Lupus, Essential Tremors. In short; my joints are rotting away while being as unstable as a shaken up rusty can of soda in the summer sun.

Sure I can't preform it 50% of the time, hell probably less then 30% on good days. Normal or bad days? Yeah... looking in the single digits there. So, I do what I can and what I am skilled at and still able to keep pace in vets and trials; yes even on the bad of days able to as well, as well hold my own in PvP. A/C isn't the end all be all, do or die.

Sure, I don't speak for others, nor do my experiences dictate that of others, nor do theirs for me. Although somewhere, in between everything, flimsy excuses will always be flimsy, no matter the reason or retort.