Ice/Frost spells. -_-

Slimebrow

Will we ever see a proper Ice magic in this game? The lack of Ice magic available to players and the fact that majority of NPCS have better looking Ice magic than Players really irks me to wrong way every time. I get what Warden has "Ice Magic" but IMO it just feels so out of place and just doesn't look that great for me to roll a Warden.

You guys could have put frost magic in Necromancer skill at least there it makes more sense than Warden with the death theme they got going on.

Frost/Ice Skills you could have incorporated into necromancers:

Ice Wraith: Instead of that horrible Flame Skull that looks like you just copied Ghost Riders skull.
Frostbite
Wall of Frost
Frost Rune
Icy Spear
Ice Storm
Frost Thrall
Blizzard

Come on guys...
I get these are mainly Skyrim abilities but come on the new classes Warden and Necromancers will always Irk me from a visual stand point.

thadjarvis

Frost does fit warden in this game quite well (calling on winter’s power as a nature mage) and it seems that’s been the direction of ZoS and it’s continuing with the new damage passive wardens are getting.

Necro has been designed to use varied damage types (both stam and mag). Makes sense as they produce damage based on different dead entities they draw power from. Necro passives focus on empowerment from things dying and offense/defense from damage over time (rotting).

May not be everyone cup of tea but they have split things up nicely; creative RPers can make them fit their goals:

Sorc: dark/daedric magic & lightning
NB: blood magic
DK: Fire from traditional flame and also derived from Lava
Templar: Fire from sun and spears of light magic
Warden: nature: calling animals’ power and calling upon winter’s storm power
Necro: summon all of it, empowerment from death, and rotting passives

zvavi

Warden is already the "ice class", necromancer is more of "all elements class". And tbh i prefer it that way.

Slimebrow

thadjarvis wrote: »

Frost does fit warden in this game quite well (calling on winter’s power as a nature mage) and it seems that’s been the direction of ZoS and it’s continuing with the new damage passive wardens are getting.

Necro has been designed to use varied damage types (both stam and mag). Makes sense as they produce damage based on different dead entities they draw power from. Necro passives focus on empowerment from things dying and offense/defense from damage over time (rotting).

May not be everyone cup of tea but they have split things up nicely; creative RPers can make them fit their goals:

Sorc: dark/daedric magic & lightning
NB: blood magic
DK: Fire from traditional flame and also derived from Lava
Templar: Fire from sun and spears of light magic
Warden: nature: calling animals’ power and calling upon winter’s storm power
Necro: summon all of it, empowerment from death, and rotting passives

Honestly as much I want to like the those classes I just feel like there is something missing from it for me. Visually they just fail to grasp my attention.

Slimebrow

zvavi wrote: »

Warden is already the "ice class", necromancer is more of "all elements class". And tbh i prefer it that way.

Lets say I wanted to build a character that used Ice magic but I didn't want to be forced into using Ice Staff. What would you recommend for me in terms of building around Ice/Frost Magic that wasn't based on support or healing just DPS mainly.

ealdwin

Flubbles wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Warden is already the "ice class", necromancer is more of "all elements class". And tbh i prefer it that way.

Lets say I wanted to build a character that used Ice magic but I didn't want to be forced into using Ice Staff. What would you recommend for me in terms of building around Ice/Frost Magic that wasn't based on support or healing just DPS mainly.

Here's a few recommendations of skills

Warden
Winter's Embrace

• Sleet Storm > Northern Storm (Ultimate - AOE)
• Impaling Shards > Winter's Revenge (Targeted Ground AOE)

Necromancer
Grave Lord

• Frozen Colossus > Glacial Colossus (Ultimate - Targeted Ground AOE)
• Boneyard > Unnerving Boneyard / Avid Boneyard (Targeted Ground AOE)

Destruction Staff
* = With Ice Staff Equipped

• Force Shock > Force Pulse (Spammable - Fire, Frost, & Lightning)
• Wall of Frost* > Frost Blockade* (Ground AOE)
• Frost Touch* > Frost Reach* (DOT)
• Impulse* > Pulsar* (AOE)

Mages Guild

• Meteor > Ice Comet (Ultimate - Targeted AOE)

While you could attempt it without an ice staff, you would be missing out on a few options for Frost Damage DPS skills.

Slimebrow

ealdwin wrote: »

Flubbles wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Warden is already the "ice class", necromancer is more of "all elements class". And tbh i prefer it that way.

Lets say I wanted to build a character that used Ice magic but I didn't want to be forced into using Ice Staff. What would you recommend for me in terms of building around Ice/Frost Magic that wasn't based on support or healing just DPS mainly.

Here's a few recommendations of skills

Warden
Winter's Embrace

• Sleet Storm > Northern Storm (Ultimate - AOE)
• Impaling Shards > Winter's Revenge (Targeted Ground AOE)

Necromancer
Grave Lord

• Frozen Colossus > Glacial Colossus (Ultimate - Targeted Ground AOE)
• Boneyard > Unnerving Boneyard / Avid Boneyard (Targeted Ground AOE)

Destruction Staff
* = With Ice Staff Equipped

• Force Shock > Force Pulse (Spammable - Fire, Frost, & Lightning)
• Wall of Frost* > Frost Blockade* (Ground AOE)
• Frost Touch* > Frost Reach* (DOT)
• Impulse* > Pulsar* (AOE)

Mages Guild

• Meteor > Ice Comet (Ultimate - Targeted AOE)

While you could attempt it without an ice staff, you would be missing out on a few options for Frost Damage DPS skills.

So i'm still forced to take Staff and another ability is Mages Guild related (which is Ulti) and only 2 class abilities I will be using, 1 ice for skill bar and 1 for Ulti for Necro and Warden.....ok. I may as well just stick with sorc and just use Mages Guild Ulti. Whats my Incentive to create a Necro or Warden then? :l

thadjarvis

I must be missing something. You want to RP a frost mage but don’t want to use a Frost staff. Wouldn’t RPing frost mean using the most frost possible.

Anyway here’s a great place to figure it out. There, there are loads of RP and performance frost mage players that test and discuss builds. I think you’ll enjoy and get a lot out of the community.

https://discord.gg/ZJk3g2

Slimebrow

thadjarvis wrote: »

I must be missing something. You want to RP a frost mage but don’t want to use a Frost staff. Wouldn’t RPing frost mean using the most frost possible.

Anyway here’s a great place to figure it out. There, there are loads of RP and performance frost mage players that test and discuss builds. I think you’ll enjoy and get a lot out of the community.

https://discord.gg/ZJk3g2

Nah, not talking about RP mate. Talking about frost spells. Did you read the first bit on this page? The frost abilities I listed are DPS based not support or healing. I just wanted there to be more DPS frost abilities than what is currently In game. Look at sorcs they have an entire Skill line based around Lightning dps to even summon Storm Atronarch.

...Do you not care that there are so little spells in ESO to do with Ice Magic?

Also i'm curious how you came to the conclusion how this is about RP from reading this thread. Please do tell :V
Also never mentioned I wanted to be a "frost mage". So no Idea were you got that from.

zvavi

Just that for sorc most of the spells are dps loss... You end up with only atro+flappy bird for lightning damage, yey, lightning theme :roll eyes: there are a lot of frost skills that are not dps centered though, that are unique, more lightning themed skills that are not dmg related is also a thing you ask for?

thadjarvis

@Flubbles
Sorry I assume RP bc frost really isn’t a DPS element is ESO from passives. Magden has a live passive and a pts DPS passive that benefits from frost and they could potentially benefit from more frost skills with the new passive.

On necro changing any skills to frost damage would be at best best net neutral or more likely a dps loss.

Eg
Loosing fire skill will lower dps through engulfing flames (more so in coordinated groups).

Loosing a shock skill would loose some minor vuln uptime potential (more so solo or basic groups).

In order to make active frost skills outside of warden for DPS useful, they’d need to change a bunch of passive things first (or add in an engulfing flames thing for frost). Until then frost is either the new Warden or RP imo.

Slimebrow

thadjarvis wrote: »

@Flubbles
Sorry I assume RP bc frost really isn’t a DPS element is ESO from passives. Magden has a live passive and a pts DPS passive that benefits from frost and they could potentially benefit from more frost skills with the new passive.

On necro changing any skills to frost damage would be at best best net neutral or more likely a dps loss.

Eg
Loosing fire skill will lower dps through engulfing flames (more so in coordinated groups).

Loosing a shock skill would loose some minor vuln uptime potential (more so solo or basic groups).

In order to make active frost skills outside of warden for DPS useful, they’d need to change a bunch of passive things first (or add in an engulfing flames thing for frost). Until then frost is either the new Warden or RP imo.

Kinda the reason why I mentioned it will always irk me is because we have to play pretend with it. I get were your coming from but those skills are not what I would call "Ice magic" in my books. I just wish they done more with it considering they gave NPCs some neat looking frost spells.

Starlight_Knight

The main reason i made my warden is to play the ice mage, i figured it would have received a bit of tweaking over time to make it more viable but instead they took loads away from the winters embrace skill line.
( and everything else the warden had going for it, CC's Timed burst etc )
I remember how angry i was when i saw the change to frost staves as well..
its saddening that the best we can get is a warden in its current state.

What we need is pet skins, so we can have something like an ice wrath instead of that ugly netch. A frozen bear skin.
A proper change to Arctic blast to make it into something usable.. Who cares as long as its decent, a heal or cc or dot,
and of course; to make frost staves viable.
The animal companions skill line will still be completely out of place and unfitting but at leased we can use more frost abilities...

I don't quite agree with necros having access to frost skills because the warden has the winters embrace skill line.

I hear you though with the wanting a frost mage, its sad that zos never listen and do weird changes that nobody likes but they go ahead anyway and then just leave them... Looking at you ulti cast times and Bosmer stealth passive removal.

MashmalloMan

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

I hear you though with the wanting a frost mage, its sad that zos never listen and do weird changes that nobody likes but they go ahead anyway and then just leave them... Looking at you ulti cast times and Bosmer stealth passive removal.

They do listen, just very slowly. If you've followed the patches, Warden has continuously received buffs towards Ice Magic, with the most recent on the pts being +10% crit damage to enemies recently affected with the chilled status effect. As far as I'm aware, chilled is an instant damage proc with no dot, so the time for the crit damage is probably about 4-6 seconds, but I haven't seen anyone confirm yet. Someone on the PTS checked chilled uptime in trials and it was like 60-70% or so with Wardens in the group and that's before this new passive.

This specific passive was requested numerous times from various Ice Wardens. Furthermore, they added this passive during a patch that had next to 0 class/combat related skill changes for any classes with a focus on performance, so for them to just casually slip that in there is awesome and leads me to believe they're going to continue down this track in making ice magic more viable as a dps tool for Warden, it's still a tanky element for other classes.

4 other possitive ice dps related changes were made in Wrathstone alone:

• Piercing Cold Passive: 6% magic/frost damage buffed to 10%.
  • This helps buff ice/magic related abilities outside the Warden skill line too, making them even more viable then what other classes can muster with them. There is always a chance more ice magic can be released in the future.There is currently more fire/magic/ice related universal abilities then there are shock, so this isn't too bad.

• Winters Revenge: Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3240, down from 3510. Increased the damage of this morph by approximately 44%.
  • Every other AOE dot saw their costs raised to 4500-4900 range and damage went down to match the new 1.5x spammable damage standard, this ability breaks that standard in 2 ways. This ability also has increased chance to apply chilled which synergizes nicely with the new crit damage passive. Still wondering how much it really increases it by though. 4% per tick is is without a charged destruction staff. Someone better than me can test, but anything higher than 4% is a lot better than 2% in comparison to other aoe dot status effect chances. Perhaps the % chance is actually 7-10% with the unknown effect of the morph.

• Northern Storm (morph): The Max Magicka granted from this morph is no longer enabled passively by slotting for +8% magicka. Instead, it is granted for 30 seconds after activating the Ultimate. At rank IV, this is +30% magicka.
  • This was done in a growing effort to move away from big abilities slotted just for passives, we saw a similar change to Flawless Dawnbreaker, losing it's 5% weapon damage for slotted to +300 weapon damage for 20 seconds.
  • You can still slot Ice Comet front bar for 2% magicka and mag reg, which is only a loss of 6% magicka passively front bar, but a gain of +30% magicka for 30 seconds. With 200 ult cost, 3 base ult/s and 4 ult back every 8s, rounding up to 10s for human error, this results in at least 3.5 ult/s. You can use your ult every 57s which is a little higher than 50% uptime. 50% of 30% magicka is 15%, only 6% magicka lost, giving a net gain of 9% magicka and this is in the worst case scenario..
  • This buff carries over to your back bar where it previously didn't and there are other sources of ult gen, especially in pvp that will boost this uptime by a lot more.
  • This ability still offers great aoe damage, 40% snare and Major Protection for your group in the storm, it's overloaded and I love it.

• Arctic Blast (morph): This ability and its morphs have regained the original function of Arctic Blast, and deal Frost Damage in a 6 meter area around the caster while the Heal over Time persists. This morph no longer converts the ability into an awkward projectile stun. Instead, this ability has inherited Permafrost’s old functionality, where enemies hit 3 times in rapid succession with the ability are stunned. This stun cannot be blocked.
  • They listened to feedback after numerous attempts to make it work, going as far as calling the previous version of this ability "awkward". I still think a little more needs to be done... It should lose the %HP healing so this morph can better shine as a dps ability with increased damage/duration. Polar Wind, should keep the % based healing to better distinguish the morphs and make them less of jack of all trades, master of none.

TLDR: Patience. It's coming, they hear you. They wouldn't do any of these changes unless they were on board the Ice Magic DPS Warden Bandwagon, but as with anything. It takes them forever and it's usually hit or miss. I'd expect some more class related improvements along with the new chapter U26.

ESO_Nightingale

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

I hear you though with the wanting a frost mage, its sad that zos never listen and do weird changes that nobody likes but they go ahead anyway and then just leave them... Looking at you ulti cast times and Bosmer stealth passive removal.

They do listen, just very slowly. If you've followed the patches, Warden has continuously received buffs towards Ice Magic, with the most recent on the pts being +10% crit damage to enemies recently affected with the chilled status effect. As far as I'm aware, chilled is an instant damage proc with no dot, so the time for the crit damage is probably about 4-6 seconds, but I haven't seen anyone confirm yet. Someone on the PTS checked chilled uptime in trials and it was like 60-70% or so with Wardens in the group and that's before this new passive.

This specific passive was requested numerous times from various Ice Wardens. Furthermore, they added this passive during a patch that had next to 0 class/combat related skill changes for any classes with a focus on performance, so for them to just casually slip that in there is awesome and leads me to believe they're going to continue down this track in making ice magic more viable as a dps tool for Warden, it's still a tanky element for other classes.

4 other possitive ice dps related changes were made in Wrathstone alone:

• Piercing Cold Passive: 6% magic/frost damage buffed to 10%.
  • This helps buff ice/magic related abilities outside the Warden skill line too, making them even more viable then what other classes can muster with them. There is always a chance more ice magic can be released in the future.There is currently more fire/magic/ice related universal abilities then there are shock, so this isn't too bad.

• Winters Revenge: Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3240, down from 3510. Increased the damage of this morph by approximately 44%.
  • Every other AOE dot saw their costs raised to 4500-4900 range and damage went down to match the new 1.5x spammable damage standard, this ability breaks that standard in 2 ways. This ability also has increased chance to apply chilled which synergizes nicely with the new crit damage passive. Still wondering how much it really increases it by though. 4% per tick is is without a charged destruction staff. Someone better than me can test, but anything higher than 4% is a lot better than 2% in comparison to other aoe dot status effect chances. Perhaps the % chance is actually 7-10% with the unknown effect of the morph.

• Northern Storm (morph): The Max Magicka granted from this morph is no longer enabled passively by slotting for +8% magicka. Instead, it is granted for 30 seconds after activating the Ultimate. At rank IV, this is +30% magicka.
  • This was done in a growing effort to move away from big abilities slotted just for passives, we saw a similar change to Flawless Dawnbreaker, losing it's 5% weapon damage for slotted to +300 weapon damage for 20 seconds.
  • You can still slot Ice Comet front bar for 2% magicka and mag reg, which is only a loss of 6% magicka passively front bar, but a gain of +30% magicka for 30 seconds. With 200 ult cost, 3 base ult/s and 4 ult back every 8s, rounding up to 10s for human error, this results in at least 3.5 ult/s. You can use your ult every 57s which is a little higher than 50% uptime. 50% of 30% magicka is 15%, only 6% magicka lost, giving a net gain of 9% magicka and this is in the worst case scenario..
  • This buff carries over to your back bar where it previously didn't and there are other sources of ult gen, especially in pvp that will boost this uptime by a lot more.
  • This ability still offers great aoe damage, 40% snare and Major Protection for your group in the storm, it's overloaded and I love it.

• Arctic Blast (morph): This ability and its morphs have regained the original function of Arctic Blast, and deal Frost Damage in a 6 meter area around the caster while the Heal over Time persists. This morph no longer converts the ability into an awkward projectile stun. Instead, this ability has inherited Permafrost’s old functionality, where enemies hit 3 times in rapid succession with the ability are stunned. This stun cannot be blocked.
  • They listened to feedback after numerous attempts to make it work, going as far as calling the previous version of this ability "awkward". I still think a little more needs to be done... It should lose the %HP healing so this morph can better shine as a dps ability with increased damage/duration. Polar Wind, should keep the % based healing to better distinguish the morphs and make them less of jack of all trades, master of none.

TLDR: Patience. It's coming, they hear you. They wouldn't do any of these changes unless they were on board the Ice Magic DPS Warden Bandwagon, but as with anything. It takes them forever and it's usually hit or miss. I'd expect some more class related improvements along with the new chapter U26.

Yeah I'm with Marshmellow Man on this one. Sweet name btw . Seriously though. They're stupendously slow. But they have been inching towards it bit by bit. They even added icy conjuror after we bitched about not enough frost damage sets. We just have to keep these discussions going. I've been doing this for a bit under 2 years now, and we are starting to get results from our work. Especially after seeing our specific suggestion make it in this patch. I don't agree with a lot of the changes this patch. But Glacial Presence's change has given me some form of hope for Frost Magic.

ESO_Nightingale

Flubbles wrote: »

Will we ever see a proper Ice magic in this game? The lack of Ice magic available to players and the fact that majority of NPCS have better looking Ice magic than Players really irks me to wrong way every time. I get what Warden has "Ice Magic" but IMO it just feels so out of place and just doesn't look that great for me to roll a Warden.

You guys could have put frost magic in Necromancer skill at least there it makes more sense than Warden with the death theme they got going on.

Frost/Ice Skills you could have incorporated into necromancers:

Ice Wraith: Instead of that horrible Flame Skull that looks like you just copied Ghost Riders skull.
Frostbite
Wall of Frost
Frost Rune
Icy Spear
Ice Storm
Frost Thrall
Blizzard

Come on guys...
I get these are mainly Skyrim abilities but come on the new classes Warden and Necromancers will always Irk me from a visual stand point.

I think Screaming Cliff Racer should be an Ice Wraith. It's an animal. What can i say?

MashmalloMan

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Starlight_Knight wrote: »

I hear you though with the wanting a frost mage, its sad that zos never listen and do weird changes that nobody likes but they go ahead anyway and then just leave them... Looking at you ulti cast times and Bosmer stealth passive removal.

They do listen, just very slowly. If you've followed the patches, Warden has continuously received buffs towards Ice Magic, with the most recent on the pts being +10% crit damage to enemies recently affected with the chilled status effect. As far as I'm aware, chilled is an instant damage proc with no dot, so the time for the crit damage is probably about 4-6 seconds, but I haven't seen anyone confirm yet. Someone on the PTS checked chilled uptime in trials and it was like 60-70% or so with Wardens in the group and that's before this new passive.

This specific passive was requested numerous times from various Ice Wardens. Furthermore, they added this passive during a patch that had next to 0 class/combat related skill changes for any classes with a focus on performance, so for them to just casually slip that in there is awesome and leads me to believe they're going to continue down this track in making ice magic more viable as a dps tool for Warden, it's still a tanky element for other classes.

4 other possitive ice dps related changes were made in Wrathstone alone:

• Piercing Cold Passive: 6% magic/frost damage buffed to 10%.
  • This helps buff ice/magic related abilities outside the Warden skill line too, making them even more viable then what other classes can muster with them. There is always a chance more ice magic can be released in the future.There is currently more fire/magic/ice related universal abilities then there are shock, so this isn't too bad.

• Winters Revenge: Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3240, down from 3510. Increased the damage of this morph by approximately 44%.
  • Every other AOE dot saw their costs raised to 4500-4900 range and damage went down to match the new 1.5x spammable damage standard, this ability breaks that standard in 2 ways. This ability also has increased chance to apply chilled which synergizes nicely with the new crit damage passive. Still wondering how much it really increases it by though. 4% per tick is is without a charged destruction staff. Someone better than me can test, but anything higher than 4% is a lot better than 2% in comparison to other aoe dot status effect chances. Perhaps the % chance is actually 7-10% with the unknown effect of the morph.

• Northern Storm (morph): The Max Magicka granted from this morph is no longer enabled passively by slotting for +8% magicka. Instead, it is granted for 30 seconds after activating the Ultimate. At rank IV, this is +30% magicka.
  • This was done in a growing effort to move away from big abilities slotted just for passives, we saw a similar change to Flawless Dawnbreaker, losing it's 5% weapon damage for slotted to +300 weapon damage for 20 seconds.
  • You can still slot Ice Comet front bar for 2% magicka and mag reg, which is only a loss of 6% magicka passively front bar, but a gain of +30% magicka for 30 seconds. With 200 ult cost, 3 base ult/s and 4 ult back every 8s, rounding up to 10s for human error, this results in at least 3.5 ult/s. You can use your ult every 57s which is a little higher than 50% uptime. 50% of 30% magicka is 15%, only 6% magicka lost, giving a net gain of 9% magicka and this is in the worst case scenario..
  • This buff carries over to your back bar where it previously didn't and there are other sources of ult gen, especially in pvp that will boost this uptime by a lot more.
  • This ability still offers great aoe damage, 40% snare and Major Protection for your group in the storm, it's overloaded and I love it.

• Arctic Blast (morph): This ability and its morphs have regained the original function of Arctic Blast, and deal Frost Damage in a 6 meter area around the caster while the Heal over Time persists. This morph no longer converts the ability into an awkward projectile stun. Instead, this ability has inherited Permafrost’s old functionality, where enemies hit 3 times in rapid succession with the ability are stunned. This stun cannot be blocked.
  • They listened to feedback after numerous attempts to make it work, going as far as calling the previous version of this ability "awkward". I still think a little more needs to be done... It should lose the %HP healing so this morph can better shine as a dps ability with increased damage/duration. Polar Wind, should keep the % based healing to better distinguish the morphs and make them less of jack of all trades, master of none.

TLDR: Patience. It's coming, they hear you. They wouldn't do any of these changes unless they were on board the Ice Magic DPS Warden Bandwagon, but as with anything. It takes them forever and it's usually hit or miss. I'd expect some more class related improvements along with the new chapter U26.

Yeah I'm with Marshmellow Man on this one. Sweet name btw . Seriously though. They're stupendously slow. But they have been inching towards it bit by bit. They even added icy conjuror after we bitched about not enough frost damage sets. We just have to keep these discussions going. I've been doing this for a bit under 2 years now, and we are starting to get results from our work. Especially after seeing our specific suggestion make it in this patch. I don't agree with a lot of the changes this patch. But Glacial Presence's change has given me some form of hope for Frost Magic.

Thanks! Name was taken and continues to be taken on everything I sign up for, have stuck with the misspelling of MashmalloMan for like 10+ years, so if you see that anywhere, it's probably me.

But yeah, if you even look back attttt... I think it was Wrathstone, they introduced some Ice themed sets for 1-2 updates. I don't think they're as strict about Ice being only for tanking as some think. That was introduced with the prev Dev team in I think Morrowind.

It would be nice if they broke their stupid 5 passives for a skill line rule and just made the tanking aspect of Ice staves it's own passive, while adding something for damage specs like 8% dot damage to offset fire/shock destruction staves while also making Destructive Reach actually DO something with it's morph instead of increasing it's range from 15m to 28m. (Add execute damage like Poison Injection.)

Side note: I usually experience new chapters by making a new class, I'm thinking about doing Ice Warden for the Skyrim chapter because it makes the most sense and it's one of the view roles I'm interested in. I'm really hoping they improve it for the chapter. I've been trying out Ice Warden's for years on the PTS, just haven't comitted on live. Ice magic is very fun for some reason. Speaks to me the same way Shock/Lightning/Wind does.

Although Netch, Shalks, Flies and Cliff Racer don't have an ICE theme or ice damage, they're coloured with light blue effects and fit perfectly fine within the class visually. No class is 1 theme. It's 3 themes brought together with sometimes 1 standing out over the outhers, mostly because they design a large portion of ability types in a skill line. Most of the classes are designed this way.

Sorcs aren't 100% shock damage or themed. Crystal Frags, Curse and Absorption Field are all Magic Damage to name a few, shock damage only gets +5% and shock destruction staves are worse in comparison to fire. So I don't think changing the Animals into Ice themed summons would make much sense or do the design of the class any justice. Although, having them be Morrowind themed didn't make a ton of sense either, they should stay as Animals, not Spirits, Atronachs or anything else we could come up with.

People think DK at a base level is "Fire", but really, the skill lines are obviously Ardent (allows poisonous fire) Flame, Dragon and Earth. Just so happens that they kind of messed up some of the themes and mixed and matched others, but it's the same argument we see about Stam DK's just wanting a Poison Whip, but ZOS clearly wanted to flesh out the Earth theme and provide them with a tool for proccing Minor Brutality and Ult Gen from that skill line. So I agree with their decision to flesh out some of the under developed skill line themes. Hey, thats why Ice magic is becoming more prevelant for Warden's in the first place, Ice was mainly the Tanking tree, yet here we are .

thadjarvis

Piercing cold just made up for no engulfing flames for frost. It just makes frost on magden not terrible (doesn’t make it good)

North storm is nice for PvP but in PvE it has the same bear problem: slotting it means you have to use it. Magden can’t really have two ultimates slotted that they can use situationally. And one looses tons of DPS relative to bear. Magdens just don’t use it in hard content: it’s bear (with MA) or Destro. The old slot passive would have been better for PvE.

Arctic blast: they keep trying on this one; it a wonky do 5 things skill that will find a focus at some point

The above are little bones to frost that are all pretty meh


Winters Revenge: this skill is awesome; the identity of frost magery. Super powerful and feeds into....

New crit passive: the only actual thing in the game that has anything to do with frost being a DPS element

Radiance

I personally don't Like how the Elements only get 1/3 of the skill lines for classes... Unless you include Destro Staff which is boring bc the spells are all identical.

I would like to see an Expansion on Earth Magic like maybe a defensive staff like the Destro Ice staff and Water Resto Staff.

But I would settle for a Resto Staff with Blue Effects at this point...

Also a Poison/Plant/Nature staff that uses Stam would be insane. And Maybe the Earth one could use Stam as well Idk

Pleez, sir, a crumb of Personalization?

ESO_Nightingale

thadjarvis wrote: »

Piercing cold just made up for no engulfing flames for frost. It just makes frost on magden not terrible (doesn’t make it good)

North storm is nice for PvP but in PvE it has the same bear problem: slotting it means you have to use it. Magden can’t really have two ultimates slotted that they can use situationally. And one looses tons of DPS relative to bear. Magdens just don’t use it in hard content: it’s bear (with MA) or Destro. The old slot passive would have been better for PvE.

Arctic blast: they keep trying on this one; it a wonky do 5 things skill that will find a focus at some point

The above are little bones to frost that are all pretty meh


Winters Revenge: this skill is awesome; the identity of frost magery. Super powerful and feeds into....

New crit passive: the only actual thing in the game that has anything to do with frost being a DPS element

yeah the piercing cold change is something i would like to see as a placeholder. when more stuff changes, i'd like to see that reduced back to 6% and the magic replaced with physical so it also benefits stamden. and i'd also like to see minor berserk removed for a more powerful movement effect on bird of prey.

i really don't agree with people who like arctic blast being used as a heal. i don't think it's good for the game, at the same time the stun aspect of the skill is only good for a defensive playstyle. where as an idea like AB4.0 would make it an effective interesting unique offensive stun with a burst damage component, while keeping that aoe it's got now for a longer duration. Giving magden that final skill to fit into a combo. One it really wants. people have been saying for a while that they want the magic animal companions skills to deal frost damage and i really agree with it now that our glacial presence change is through.

Unit117

That pretty much summons up why I hate the warden as a class. It is stupidly broad and makes all 3 of its subclasses unsatisfying.

Cryomancers
Chloromancers
And beast tamers all should have been thier own classes. There’s more than enough to them all to have been

Slimebrow

As much as I want to like Warden the solid frost magic some of us crave for just is not there.

From a visual stand points I was expecting Wardens to have more nature type abilities like summoning vines and using more nature based magic accompanied by frost abilities.

They just don't make any sense for a nature class, they could have used more frost based abilities such as frost procs that allows players to hurl a spinning Ice Storm or something. For me the Warden abilities feel too much like Templar specially from a visual stand point with the holy priest theme abilities they got going on when they should have been more earthy and nature based than we currently get.

Also the pets for Warden are a massive let down. Would have been nice if they gave the ability to at least tame certain animals, would have been a better option than just a bear. Morrowind has come and gone now they just feel even more out of place. Specially the netch and hurling cliff racers as your spamming ability. Just feels off. Why would a nature class hurl cliff racers their death? We have Spriggans , Ice Wraiths (Since they gave ice ability to Warden this would have made more sense than the floating pile of brains) ,

Honestly if they had done a better job of that class I wouldn't be complaining and asking for Necromancers to get frost skill line.

ESO_Nightingale

Flubbles wrote: »

As much as I want to like Warden the solid frost magic some of us crave for just inst there.

From a visual stand points I was expecting Wardens to have more nature type abilities like summoning vines and flowers and such.

Also the pets for warden are a massive let down. They just don't make any sense for a nature class Morrowind has come and gone. We have Spriggans , Ice Wraith (Since they gave ice ability to warden this would have made more sense than the floating pile of brains) , and ability to at least tame certain animals would have been a better option than just a bear.

For me the Warden abilities feel too much like Templar specially from a visual stand point with the holy priest theme abilities they got going on when they should have been more earthy and nature based than we currently get.

Honestly if they had done a better job of that class I wouldn't be complaining and asking for Necromancers to get frost skill line.

i think we should improve on what we have. and what we have is Animal Companions and Winter's Embrace

Slimebrow

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

[quote="

i think we should improve on what we have. and what we have is Animal Companions and Winter's Embrace

Honestly If they made major improvements to it I would be all up for it.

Slimebrow

Radiance wrote: »

I personally don't Like how the Elements only get 1/3 of the skill lines for classes... Unless you include Destro Staff which is boring bc the spells are all identical.

I would like to see an Expansion on Earth Magic like maybe a defensive staff like the Destro Ice staff and Water Resto Staff.

But I would settle for a Resto Staff with Blue Effects at this point...

Also a Poison/Plant/Nature staff that uses Stam would be insane. And Maybe the Earth one could use Stam as well Idk

Pleez, sir, a crumb of Personalization?

IKR? I hate how we are forced to take destro staff if want any element based abilities and even then its still limited to just a couple skills which honestly just don't look that great.

I'm all up for more skills and overall better variety of options made available to players than what we currently get.

Slimebrow

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Flubbles wrote: »

Will we ever see a proper Ice magic in this game? The lack of Ice magic available to players and the fact that majority of NPCS have better looking Ice magic than Players really irks me to wrong way every time. I get what Warden has "Ice Magic" but IMO it just feels so out of place and just doesn't look that great for me to roll a Warden.

You guys could have put frost magic in Necromancer skill at least there it makes more sense than Warden with the death theme they got going on.

Frost/Ice Skills you could have incorporated into necromancers:

Ice Wraith: Instead of that horrible Flame Skull that looks like you just copied Ghost Riders skull.
Frostbite
Wall of Frost
Frost Rune
Icy Spear
Ice Storm
Frost Thrall
Blizzard

Come on guys...
I get these are mainly Skyrim abilities but come on the new classes Warden and Necromancers will always Irk me from a visual stand point.

I think Screaming Cliff Racer should be an Ice Wraith. It's an animal. What can i say?

Totally agree 100% makes more sense IMO.



Imagine that as ability way more cooler than chucking crappy Cliff Racers at enemies.

ESO_Nightingale

Flubbles wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

[quote="

i think we should improve on what we have. and what we have is Animal Companions and Winter's Embrace

Honestly If they made major improvements to it I would be all up for it.

changes like this?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fWoOX0S4yrR_KFZcjBAvHvR2K6T__6LrIGiaERV8NQA/edit?usp=sharing

Slimebrow

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Flubbles wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

[quote="

i think we should improve on what we have. and what we have is Animal Companions and Winter's Embrace

Honestly If they made major improvements to it I would be all up for it.

changes like this?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fWoOX0S4yrR_KFZcjBAvHvR2K6T__6LrIGiaERV8NQA/edit?usp=sharing

They are gana need to do better than that to win me over IMO

ESO_Nightingale

Flubbles wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Flubbles wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

[quote="

i think we should improve on what we have. and what we have is Animal Companions and Winter's Embrace

Honestly If they made major improvements to it I would be all up for it.

changes like this?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fWoOX0S4yrR_KFZcjBAvHvR2K6T__6LrIGiaERV8NQA/edit?usp=sharing

They are gana need to do better than that to win me over IMO

the changes try to find a middleground between everything essentially.

Lughlongarm

If we could reshuffle everything I would actually like to see(from a thematic stand point only, not mechanical):

Sorcerer - The multi elemental class with actual control over the elements - So, skills like 'shimmering shield', that force an a element to an unnatural shape would be Sorc skills.

Warden - Primal from of the elements, they cannot force elements to unnatural forms and purposes but can summon their raw natural power the battlefield . So skills like Hurricane will be part of the Warden skills.

Necro - More emphasize on summoning the Deadric and Dark side of magic( that should have been more developed to begin with).

NB- Blood magic and illusion arts(Both are not very developed aspects of magic) .

Templar - As is, their magical power is coming from the sun and the divine, perhaps a touch of "light magic"(very developed aspects of magic).

DK- The fire skills are good, most of them emphasize that magic is coming from inside the caster(draconic like powers) and used to imbue their weapons(could have much more of that). Most of the earth skills feels more suited with Sorcs and Wardens in my opinion.

ESO_Nightingale

Flubbles wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Flubbles wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

[quote="

i think we should improve on what we have. and what we have is Animal Companions and Winter's Embrace

Honestly If they made major improvements to it I would be all up for it.

changes like this?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fWoOX0S4yrR_KFZcjBAvHvR2K6T__6LrIGiaERV8NQA/edit?usp=sharing

They are gana need to do better than that to win me over IMO

given the history of changes, i don't think we will ever manage more than this.