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Major Defile in Harrowstorm
BohnT2
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With people slowly catching up how viable (and broken) stamnecro is and the changes for blastbones (which are great from a functionality point of view) we'll see a huge influx of them being used in PvP.
And now we reach the critical point of a now reliable skill offering 100% uptime of major defile, which has shown in the past that it's extremely unhealthy for the game, but now the skill isn't dodgeable or limited to meele range, no it's undodgeable, ignores Los, deals high damage and is cheap.
Yet all those things are fine as long as major defile isn't attached to it but with how major defile influences pvp builds you'll see even more tanky build which are build to be able to survive being severely defiled while killing other specs by wearing them down with defile.
This slowly removes any build that can't compete with those which is the case for almost any spec as they don't have the luxury of major defile.
Change the major defile to anything else but a class that has the survivability of stamnecro that also has access to major vulnerability shouldn't have access to major defile, no class should have access to it on skills that provide 100% uptime (read non ultimate abilities)
Btw instant offensive CCs are healthy for the game as long as they're not tied to absurd skills like drain
And now we reach the critical point of a now reliable skill offering 100% uptime of major defile, which has shown in the past that it's extremely unhealthy for the game, but now the skill isn't dodgeable or limited to meele range, no it's undodgeable, ignores Los, deals high damage and is cheap.
Yet all those things are fine as long as major defile isn't attached to it but with how major defile influences pvp builds you'll see even more tanky build which are build to be able to survive being severely defiled while killing other specs by wearing them down with defile.
This slowly removes any build that can't compete with those which is the case for almost any spec as they don't have the luxury of major defile.
Change the major defile to anything else but a class that has the survivability of stamnecro that also has access to major vulnerability shouldn't have access to major defile, no class should have access to it on skills that provide 100% uptime (read non ultimate abilities)
Btw instant offensive CCs are healthy for the game as long as they're not tied to absurd skills like drain
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If you feel that you are missing the ability to use Defile please pay attention to sets such as Ward of Cyrodiil, Durok's Bane.4 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »If you feel that you are missing the ability to use Defile please pay attention to sets such as Ward of Cyrodiil, Durok's Bane.
Read the second paragraph again.
It says "a now reliable skill offering 100% uptime of major defile"
Neither ward of cyrodiil or duroks can do that.
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OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »If you feel that you are missing the ability to use Defile please pay attention to sets such as Ward of Cyrodiil, Durok's Bane.
Read the second paragraph again.
It says "a now reliable skill offering 100% uptime of major defile"
Neither ward of cyrodiil or duroks can do that.
In this case, this is a feature of Stamcro.3 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »If you feel that you are missing the ability to use Defile please pay attention to sets such as Ward of Cyrodiil, Durok's Bane.
Read the second paragraph again.
It says "a now reliable skill offering 100% uptime of major defile"
Neither ward of cyrodiil or duroks can do that.
In this case, this is a feature of Stamcro.
And it is unhealthy for the game and as explained above negatively influences the game for every other class directly and indirectly and this would be the case no matter which spec had access to high major defile.16 -
SenpaiNFT✭✭✭✭100% uptime on defile shouldn’t exist. Especially not for a single class. Overhaul healing completely, but until then, Major Defile NEEDS to be replaced with something else. I suggest minor unnerving (uncertainty?) whichever lowers enemy crit damage.7
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OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »If you feel that you are missing the ability to use Defile please pay attention to sets such as Ward of Cyrodiil, Durok's Bane.
Read the second paragraph again.
It says "a now reliable skill offering 100% uptime of major defile"
Neither ward of cyrodiil or duroks can do that.
In this case, this is a feature of Stamcro.
And it is unhealthy for the game and as explained above negatively influences the game for every other class directly and indirectly and this would be the case no matter which spec had access to high major defile.
You associate the defile problem with 100% uptime. You do not suggest how to solve the problem with 100% uptime. Requests for nerf without offering a solution are unhealthy for the game as a whole.6 -
Jeezye✭✭✭✭✭Major defile has been gutted from many spammable abilities for a reason (Snipe, Reverb). A skill that is build around delayed burst and high damage should NOT offer what has just recently been adjusted. Warden shalks are most comparable, and even the major breach/fracture could be argued too strong for such a potent ability.
The only 100% uptime on major defile besides blastbones is the corrupting field, and that is a very niche ability which cannot be spammed and you can simply walk out of.
Strongly argue to remove the defile component, maybe minor or replace with other debuff like maim.6 -
MincVinyl✭✭✭✭✭Changing the major defile to minor would be a decent start, since currently you can get 100% uptime on major and roughly 20-25% uptime on minor.
If you dont think bb is that strong or have not played against it yet on pts, imagine if zos tried to give sorc's crystal frags proc an aoe that does major/minor defile and provides constant direct Los and ult/maj protection uptime for spamming it. Imagine the nerf sorc threads then.8 -
Anhedonie✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You don't need to create the same thread twice with exact same wording lolProfanity filter is a crime against the freedom of speech. Also gags.7 -
ElvenVeil✭✭✭you people :P The game has already been nerfed into a pitiful mess, and your solution is to nerf some more ? buff stuff that is too weak, so that you create more build options and choices, instead of killing off everything that seems good and fun.
and no I don't play stamcro, and I dont have any plan of doing so either.8 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭you people :P The game has already been nerfed into a pitiful mess, and your solution is to nerf some more ? buff stuff that is too weak, so that you create more build options and choices, instead of killing off everything that seems good and fun.
and no I don't play stamcro, and I dont have any plan of doing so either.
The developers make changes and provide validation for their reasoning.
Players accept this. (some, most?)
The developers then make changes that contradict their original changes.
Players ask for "nerfs".
I put that in quotes because what you consider a nerf (in this case) is really just a request for the developers to maintain consistency in logic.
The developers do NOT maintain consistency. See: Two-Handed skills - Uppercut.
Always keep in mind what is making the game fun for you might be potentially over-performing and ruining someone else's experience.Edited by brandonv516 on February 6, 2020 4:16PM9 -
Changing the major defile to minor would be a decent start, since currently you can get 100% uptime on major and roughly 20-25% uptime on minor.
If you dont think bb is that strong or have not played against it yet on pts, imagine if zos tried to give sorc's crystal frags proc an aoe that does major/minor defile and provides constant direct Los and ult/maj protection uptime for spamming it. Imagine the nerf sorc threads then.
I understand your point of view, but sorry I would like my Venom skull to work as sorc crystal fragments and have the original damage coefficient like this. Maybe after that I didn't want to protect the possibility of using Defile for Stamcro.1 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »Changing the major defile to minor would be a decent start, since currently you can get 100% uptime on major and roughly 20-25% uptime on minor.
If you dont think bb is that strong or have not played against it yet on pts, imagine if zos tried to give sorc's crystal frags proc an aoe that does major/minor defile and provides constant direct Los and ult/maj protection uptime for spamming it. Imagine the nerf sorc threads then.
I understand your point of view, but sorry I would like my Venom skull to work as sorc crystal fragments and have the original damage coefficient like this. Maybe after that I didn't want to protect the possibility of using Defile for Stamcro.
When it will get the cast time and only chance to be instant then yeah, why not. But then I want my assassin's will to be an AoE, delayed, no mini game required, undodgeable skill that also defiles my opponents - same logic as yours.
Back to the topic. Major defile from blastbones needs to go. ZOS double standards are just outrageous.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge5 -
OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »Changing the major defile to minor would be a decent start, since currently you can get 100% uptime on major and roughly 20-25% uptime on minor.
If you dont think bb is that strong or have not played against it yet on pts, imagine if zos tried to give sorc's crystal frags proc an aoe that does major/minor defile and provides constant direct Los and ult/maj protection uptime for spamming it. Imagine the nerf sorc threads then.
I understand your point of view, but sorry I would like my Venom skull to work as sorc crystal fragments and have the original damage coefficient like this. Maybe after that I didn't want to protect the possibility of using Defile for Stamcro.
When it will get the cast time and only chance to be instant then yeah, why not. But then I want my assassin's will to be an AoE, delayed, no mini game required, undodgeable skill that also defiles my opponents - same logic as yours.
Back to the topic. Major defile from blastbones needs to go. ZOS double standards are just outrageous.
Yes Yes back to the topic, I don't think it should go away with its own buffs/debuffs for the Stamcro kit. Please do not give me an example of Guilds and weapons abilities that are not related to Stamcro kit.Edited by OrderoftheDarkness on February 6, 2020 5:31PM1 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »Changing the major defile to minor would be a decent start, since currently you can get 100% uptime on major and roughly 20-25% uptime on minor.
If you dont think bb is that strong or have not played against it yet on pts, imagine if zos tried to give sorc's crystal frags proc an aoe that does major/minor defile and provides constant direct Los and ult/maj protection uptime for spamming it. Imagine the nerf sorc threads then.
I understand your point of view, but sorry I would like my Venom skull to work as sorc crystal fragments and have the original damage coefficient like this. Maybe after that I didn't want to protect the possibility of using Defile for Stamcro.
When it will get the cast time and only chance to be instant then yeah, why not. But then I want my assassin's will to be an AoE, delayed, no mini game required, undodgeable skill that also defiles my opponents - same logic as yours.
Back to the topic. Major defile from blastbones needs to go. ZOS double standards are just outrageous.
Yes Yes back to the topic, I don't think it should go away with its own buffs/debuffs for the Stamcro kit. Please do not give me an example of Guilds and weapons abilities that are not related to Stamcro kit.
You have to take those skills into account because no stamina spec can even fill its bar with class skills only and we're not talking about some builds that cripple themselves just to make them look worse than they are.2 -
OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »Changing the major defile to minor would be a decent start, since currently you can get 100% uptime on major and roughly 20-25% uptime on minor.
If you dont think bb is that strong or have not played against it yet on pts, imagine if zos tried to give sorc's crystal frags proc an aoe that does major/minor defile and provides constant direct Los and ult/maj protection uptime for spamming it. Imagine the nerf sorc threads then.
I understand your point of view, but sorry I would like my Venom skull to work as sorc crystal fragments and have the original damage coefficient like this. Maybe after that I didn't want to protect the possibility of using Defile for Stamcro.
When it will get the cast time and only chance to be instant then yeah, why not. But then I want my assassin's will to be an AoE, delayed, no mini game required, undodgeable skill that also defiles my opponents - same logic as yours.
Back to the topic. Major defile from blastbones needs to go. ZOS double standards are just outrageous.
Yes Yes back to the topic, I don't think it should go away with its own buffs/debuffs for the Stamcro kit. Please do not give me an example of Guilds and weapons abilities that are not related to Stamcro kit.
You have to take those skills into account because no stamina spec can even fill its bar with class skills only and we're not talking about some builds that cripple themselves just to make them look worse than they are.
Yes thank you for your explanation finally I understood your idea about the fact that you listed me a whole list, but let me ask you all the same you are a magsorc main player. How do you think when choosing a class I should rely on the identity of the class or still on its dependence on the use of Weapons and Guild abilities. Also why is there such a difference that some classes rely entirely on their identity and some must use guilds and weapons abilities?
P. S. I'm not saying that you only play in magsorc, it just seemed to me that it is your main one. (let me remind you that Magsorc has a very good and workable class identity)Edited by OrderoftheDarkness on February 6, 2020 7:03PM1 -
In order for you to understand my idea to the end before answering, I will explain it to you. There is a DoT patch where the class identity of magtemplar and DK begins to dominate and we continue to play it. In the next patch, there is no direct indication that Defile will dominate. Just the usual change in the functionality of Blastbones makes people think that this will be an OP. So following your idea that 100% uptime will take Defile out of control means that we need to think about changing 100% uptime defile. This does not mean that we need to delete it, if all this time it was in order and no one did not care. In addition, as long as there is such a difference between classes that some rely on class identity, while others have to use weapons and guilds abilities, what type of balance can we talk about??
P. S. Maybe you have not thought about why the game does not have a rating on BG and etc. Most likely, the rating will never be entered into the game as long as there is such a difference. Some classes play their part, while others have to adapt.Edited by OrderoftheDarkness on February 6, 2020 7:39PM1 -
StShoot✭✭✭✭OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »If you feel that you are missing the ability to use Defile please pay attention to sets such as Ward of Cyrodiil, Durok's Bane.
Read the second paragraph again.
It says "a now reliable skill offering 100% uptime of major defile"
Neither ward of cyrodiil or duroks can do that.
In this case, this is a feature of Stamcro.
And it is unhealthy for the game and as explained above negatively influences the game for every other class directly and indirectly and this would be the case no matter which spec had access to high major defile.
You associate the defile problem with 100% uptime. You do not suggest how to solve the problem with 100% uptime. Requests for nerf without offering a solution are unhealthy for the game as a whole.
Well zos nerfed every other abillity and set that had acces to a high defile uptime ...
Tbh defile is only good in Xv1 or duells, it make it even easyer for a group to chase down a solo player. It wont help solo players since the crosshealing is still to high.
I dont think that the stamcro is in a bad spot atm, even with the malfunctioning blastbones (well magcro is another story that class needs some love)
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OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »If you feel that you are missing the ability to use Defile please pay attention to sets such as Ward of Cyrodiil, Durok's Bane.
Read the second paragraph again.
It says "a now reliable skill offering 100% uptime of major defile"
Neither ward of cyrodiil or duroks can do that.
In this case, this is a feature of Stamcro.
And it is unhealthy for the game and as explained above negatively influences the game for every other class directly and indirectly and this would be the case no matter which spec had access to high major defile.
You associate the defile problem with 100% uptime. You do not suggest how to solve the problem with 100% uptime. Requests for nerf without offering a solution are unhealthy for the game as a whole.
Well zos nerfed every other abillity and set that had acces to a high defile uptime ...
Tbh defile is only good in Xv1 or duells, it make it even easyer for a group to chase down a solo player. It wont help solo players since the crosshealing is still to high.
I dont think that the stamcro is in a bad spot atm, even with the malfunctioning blastbones (well magcro is another story that class needs some love)
I agree with you completely. I don't mind changing 100% uptime only for Stamcro, but removing access to Defile from the Lord of the disease is just a complete failure. I decided to try Teso again just because of the role play. My opinion since uptime Defile is out of control on PTS, devs just need to slow down Blastbones only for Stamcro. Maybe after that there will be a new morph for Magcro, when blastbones Stamcro will be slowed down.
P. S. I also want to add that changing to minor is not an option. This will most likely eliminate the use of Stamcro for bow players.Edited by OrderoftheDarkness on February 6, 2020 8:30PM1 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nope gotta sell some necros more.
LoL. They don't have to really, when you buy Greymoor you get all the other chapters for free thrown in. Plus the past year was a tad bit bad for necro, not a selling point really. How are they gonna sell necro after Elsweyr dropped?
"Yes, with Elsweyr you get this fabulous class that you've all been asking for... Necromancer!! Yes folks use damage abilities like the most obvious and easily avoided spammable Skulls. Want reliable burst?? Too bad, we have Blastbones… roll the dice and it might hit the target... it's like a gameshow. We also have a ground AOE that is a graveyard, Oh boy does it hit hard with the self-synergy... LOL just kidding you need Harmony for that. Want a real good dps character? Pick Necro, at least with stamina necro you can use weapon skills and make up for poor class damage abilities. Need a crazy good ultimate? We have Frozen Colossus, let's hope everyone is brain dead and stands in it. Yes yes, pick Necromancer for all your needs. Unless you want Magicka dps, then just LOL to you, be a healer those abilities work."
Awesome pitch right? Yup, I thought so too. Makes you want to grab your wallet and buy it all over again.3 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »If you feel that you are missing the ability to use Defile please pay attention to sets such as Ward of Cyrodiil, Durok's Bane.
Read the second paragraph again.
It says "a now reliable skill offering 100% uptime of major defile"
Neither ward of cyrodiil or duroks can do that.
In this case, this is a feature of Stamcro.
i cant tell if youre serious or not. you're suggesting people use item sets for major defile where as a necro comes with it built in and can use whatever sets he/she wants while still having it. your argument is terrible and i have absolutely no idea why youre defending this class which is already extremely broken in 1v1 combat and now will be pretty much ridiculous if the tank meta is not addressed nor is there rebalancing to this skill which hits just about as hard as a nightblade's spectral bow except for the fact that its spammable, cheap, has major defile, can be lined up with other burst abilities, and is virtually unavoidable. the changes to this ability will break pvp. high mmr bgs are about to be ridiculous. i have no idea what zos is thinking with this one.0 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭OtarTheMad wrote: »Nope gotta sell some necros more.
LoL. They don't have to really, when you buy Greymoor you get all the other chapters for free thrown in. Plus the past year was a tad bit bad for necro, not a selling point really. How are they gonna sell necro after Elsweyr dropped?
"Yes, with Elsweyr you get this fabulous class that you've all been asking for... Necromancer!! Yes folks use damage abilities like the most obvious and easily avoided spammable Skulls. Want reliable burst?? Too bad, we have Blastbones… roll the dice and it might hit the target... it's like a gameshow. We also have a ground AOE that is a graveyard, Oh boy does it hit hard with the self-synergy... LOL just kidding you need Harmony for that. Want a real good dps character? Pick Necro, at least with stamina necro you can use weapon skills and make up for poor class damage abilities. Need a crazy good ultimate? We have Frozen Colossus, let's hope everyone is brain dead and stands in it. Yes yes, pick Necromancer for all your needs. Unless you want Magicka dps, then just LOL to you, be a healer those abilities work."
Awesome pitch right? Yup, I thought so too. Makes you want to grab your wallet and buy it all over again.
this is a massive l2p issue.0 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭like honestly i hear all this qq from players who can't play the class right. yall should reroll stamblade and try hitting people with spectral bow before posting all this qq about your broken beloved blastbones.1
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nublife01✭✭✭✭OrderoftheDarkness wrote: »In order for you to understand my idea to the end before answering, I will explain it to you. There is a DoT patch where the class identity of magtemplar and DK begins to dominate and we continue to play it. In the next patch, there is no direct indication that Defile will dominate. Just the usual change in the functionality of Blastbones makes people think that this will be an OP. So following your idea that 100% uptime will take Defile out of control means that we need to think about changing 100% uptime defile. This does not mean that we need to delete it, if all this time it was in order and no one did not care. In addition, as long as there is such a difference between classes that some rely on class identity, while others have to use weapons and guilds abilities, what type of balance can we talk about??
P. S. Maybe you have not thought about why the game does not have a rating on BG and etc. Most likely, the rating will never be entered into the game as long as there is such a difference. Some classes play their part, while others have to adapt.
every good player/streamer i have talked to knows necro is already extremely op in xvx (especially bgs) and 1v1 and also knows that necro is about to be absurdly broken next patch. and fyi there is rating in bg. you get high mmr. if you l2p your overpowered class and get good at bgs you will notice if you have high mmr rating in bgs.1 -
ElvenVeil✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »you people :P The game has already been nerfed into a pitiful mess, and your solution is to nerf some more ? buff stuff that is too weak, so that you create more build options and choices, instead of killing off everything that seems good and fun.
and no I don't play stamcro, and I dont have any plan of doing so either.
The developers make changes and provide validation for their reasoning.
Players accept this. (some, most?)
The developers then make changes that contradict their original changes.
Players ask for "nerfs".
I put that in quotes because what you consider a nerf (in this case) is really just a request for the developers to maintain consistency in logic.
The developers do NOT maintain consistency. See: Two-Handed skills - Uppercut.
Always keep in mind what is making the game fun for you might be potentially over-performing and ruining someone else's experience.
I fully get that necromancer is going to be strong, that it already has amazing survivability and major defile is a great way to boost killing power. However the biggest reason why necro potentially feels so strong compared to other classes, is because a lot of alternative playstyles have been nerfed to the ground.... And I believe that most people can agree, that weak nerfed classes aren't really all that fun to play. Necro has pressure with major defile, and to be honest, I think that is great. If zos started giving other classes access to stronger skills, items and abilities again, we could also still achieve somewhat of a feeling of consistency, but one that doesn't rely on every single skill feeling incredibly weak. I mean imagine if classes actually felt like they were strong across the board, that would be amazing in my opinion. That is why I think it is very misdirected to call for nerfs, when in reality we should call for a broad range of buffs.3 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭like honestly i hear all this qq from players who can't play the class right. yall should reroll stamblade and try hitting people with spectral bow before posting all this qq about your broken beloved blastbones.
I hit people with spectral bow all the time. Sounds like a massive l2p issue.3 -
nublife01✭✭✭✭And just so yall know there is a very easy fix/nerf that can be implemented to blastbones which is simply making the damage blockable while having it still affect you with major defile upon blocking the ability. You can roll dodge away from a wardens fissure, block and dodge roll a spectral bow from a nightblade, you can block a dk's leap ulti and now probably dodge roll it, there are ways to defend against every one of these high damage/burst abilities. Stamcro you used to be able to kill it or wait out its timer just at the right time so that a good player doesnt have time to summon it again when you go in and do your burst damage to them. This was a very small half a second window but in 1v1 still possible. But now that it is going to be extremely difficult if not impossible to kill the blastbones before it hits you, it needs to be blockable, not dodgeable, just the massive damage it deals to be blockable.
It still vexes me though that yall don't understand the purpose of this ability yet you still probably play the class. Just a FYI blastbones is much more of a defensive ability than an offensive ability. Necro as a class is a defensive class not an offensive class. All of your abilities are meant to punish people for trying to attack you. Literally all of them are meant for that. If you are going on offense and trying to kill people before they attack you (especially in 1v1) youre kind of playing your class wrong. Any guide you look up on youtube that says otherwise is profiting off of misinforming you (and 80%-90% of build guides do just so for any class). That is why blastbones targeting isnt an issue for better players and they don't need the skelly to have exceptional targeting if theyre mainly using the ability with their target right infront of them trying to attack them. Your class is a defensive class meant to punish players heavily for attacking you.
This entire forum thread is a massive l2p issue. I highly suggest going out into imperial city and 1v1'ing everyone you come across. Here ill give you a hint, run heavy nma/spriggan or nma/fury with bloodspawn helmet and backbar black rose dw set. If you have a shred of understanding of how your class works and how kiting works that will make you minorly invincible with the gross amount of built in healing stamcro already has which will give you some nice buffer room to learn how to use your burst combo.Edited by nublife01 on February 6, 2020 9:27PM0
