So. . . what ever happened to "Adventure Zones?"

Snowstrider

Ashtaris wrote: »

The main problem with the original Craglorn is that it was basically forced group content to be able to do any of the quests, dungeons, and other content in the zone. And to top it off, you have to always basically be at the same point in the quest with all four players. If one person dropped out, you couldn’t just pick up a pug or substitute because they could be out of sync with the questline. So if you didn’t have a dedicated group of 4 people to meet up at a regular schedule then it made it very frustrating.

And no, I don’t see it ever happening again. At one time ZOS was planning on making Murkmire another adventure zone and that got scrapped.

So what? This is an MMO and it should encourage people to do more stuff together instead of making everything doable solo It is one thing i dislike about modern MMOs and praise about old ones like classic WOW how it Kinda forces you to group up and be social which gives it a more community like feel

MaleAmazon

Challenge?

Yes please.


Original Craglorn "sorry I don´t have the right quest stage"?

No please.

The_Saint

Snowstrider wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

The main problem with the original Craglorn is that it was basically forced group content to be able to do any of the quests, dungeons, and other content in the zone. And to top it off, you have to always basically be at the same point in the quest with all four players. If one person dropped out, you couldn’t just pick up a pug or substitute because they could be out of sync with the questline. So if you didn’t have a dedicated group of 4 people to meet up at a regular schedule then it made it very frustrating.

And no, I don’t see it ever happening again. At one time ZOS was planning on making Murkmire another adventure zone and that got scrapped.

So what? This is an MMO and it should encourage people to do more stuff together instead of making everything doable solo It is one thing i dislike about modern MMOs and praise about old ones like classic WOW how it Kinda forces you to group up and be social which gives it a more community like feel

Not the play together part was the part most people disliked. It was the part of the quest lvl.
All needed to be on the same step. And you couldnt help someone for example from step 2 to 3 when you where at 4th.
This change came too late.
Craglorn has fantastic dungeons lije shada tears. Was harder (imo better) then undaunted dungeons.


Murkmire was announced as adventure zone in 2014. and is a normal zone now.
I dont think we will see a new real adventure zone in the future

BisDasBlutGefriert

(off topic slightly)

I can't remember if murkmire was before, or after one tamriel. Was it announced as an adventure zone before release,before one tamriel. Then came out as a regular zone on release post one tamriel? I'm curious on reasoning behind switching murkmire to regular zone, like the OPs question of whatever happened to adventure zones.

Wifeaggro13

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

It seems to me a lot of this community yearns for legitimately challenging pve zones. And craglorn on release definitely scratched that itch. Why was it scrapped? Any possibility itll happen again?

Zos parted ways with the men who knew how to make MMOs. Truthfully I dont think they could keep up with the content schedule. Its gar cheaper and easier to design content around 1 unskilled player then 4 people

FierceSam

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

It seems to me a lot of this community yearns for legitimately challenging pve zones. And craglorn on release definitely scratched that itch. Why was it scrapped? Any possibility itll happen again?

Zos parted ways with the men who knew how to make MMOs. Truthfully I dont think they could keep up with the content schedule. Its gar cheaper and easier to design content around 1 unskilled player then 4 people

Don’t disagree with any of that, other than I suspect it’s just as hard to develop quest based story content that anyone can do and enjoy as it is to produce 4 player group content.

And yet ZOS continue to pump out superhard group content twice a year with 4 DLC dungeons. There’s legitimately challenging PvE zones for you.

Kiralyn2000

Sevn wrote: »

[It's really simple when you think about how players are ignoring the challenging content that's available to them now, for whatever reason.

Many people playing online games aren't looking for 'challenge', they're looking for "most efficient time/reward ratio". The shortest/fastest dungeon to clear that daily/event/etc, the quickest repeatable quests for gold/rep/etc, and so on.

(and heck, even the 'challenge' people aren't looking for challenge all the time, and default to the time/reward thing the rest of the time)

Iccotak

there is a difference between forcing people to play in a group and encouraging them to play in a group

Group Dungeons force group play
Public Dungeons encourage group play

FierceSam

Iccotak wrote: »

there is a difference between forcing people to play in a group and encouraging them to play in a group

Group Dungeons force group play
Public Dungeons encourage group play

The multitude of “Oh but dungeons are so EZ I solo them all the time” posters here might beg to disagree.

Kahnak

If they make some kind of incentive for group overland content, I think they would see the community react more positively to the idea. Right now, there are too many extremely vocal people who prefer the solo questing content to group content and there is no additional incentive to other PvE players to stop doing the dungeon/trial/arena group content that they are doing to do overland group quests.

OWLTHEMAD

Kahnak wrote: »

If they make some kind of incentive for group overland content, I think they would see the community react more positively to the idea. Right now, there are too many extremely vocal people who prefer the solo questing content to group content and there is no additional incentive to other PvE players to stop doing the dungeon/trial/arena group content that they are doing to do overland group quests.

Well in the first place its not eve about overland GROUP content, its abour overland content not being braindead for everyone at endgame.

zaria

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Better they focus on trials. They can control the number of people and give out good rewards.
Any overland that has a good farming location will just get swarmed and become as easy as Alik'r dolmens. Any overland that doesn't have a good farm will be ignored after quests are done.

Yes, that is the problem either the reward is good and people will farm it hard.
Dragons is pretty much an normal trial boss after all and they go down fast with an large group.
Or few does the content and its hard to get groups.

And yes the craglorn quest system was kind of stupid as you needed to be 4 and all 4 had to be at the same stage. You could not just get an friend who done it help you in the fight kind of like group dungeons works.

Now I think they should raise the overland difficulty an bit in new zones. Perhaps current Craglorn level or a bit above. perhaps 100k health for mobs and 400K for delve bosses and large creatures.

They are moving in this direction for major bosses. They handled major quest bosses an good way now I think, they have decent with health but you have helpers who keep the boss from resetting then you die.

Magenpie

This is interesting to me.

I'm a boring old solo PVE player who wants to toddle about the world enjoying the story but with the occasional challenge, but I do get the appeal of inhabiting a perilous mmo world. I also play (horrors) another Very Big and Popular MMO which recently implemented a toggle-button-thingie allowing players to opt into a PvP version of the whole world, with an xp reward baked into that choice. I chose not to join in but am jolly happy for those people who want it.

But I'm also not a developer/coder/I-believe-my-computer-is-powered-by-actual-magic, so I don't know how difficult it is to implement those kinds of buttons.

Would it be possible to implement a 'vet version' of the world with a toggle? Would ESO players like open world PvP?

I'm all for more ways to please the most types of players.

OWLTHEMAD

Magenpie wrote: »

This is interesting to me.

I'm a boring old solo PVE player who wants to toddle about the world enjoying the story but with the occasional challenge, but I do get the appeal of inhabiting a perilous mmo world. I also play (horrors) another Very Big and Popular MMO which recently implemented a toggle-button-thingie allowing players to opt into a PvP version of the whole world, with an xp reward baked into that choice. I chose not to join in but am jolly happy for those people who want it.

But I'm also not a developer/coder/I-believe-my-computer-is-powered-by-actual-magic, so I don't know how difficult it is to implement those kinds of buttons.

Would it be possible to implement a 'vet version' of the world with a toggle? Would ESO players like open world PvP?

I'm all for more ways to please the most types of players.

I have another thread up here about a zone for that exact same purpose and that sounds sweet as heck and bell

Magenpie

I have another thread up here about a zone for that exact same purpose and that sounds sweet as heck and bell

But why limit it to one new zone? Why not a toggle for the whole shebang? More fun, yes?

Michaelkeir

Sevn wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

On xbox us server it stays populated and is where you go to pick up pug trials.

Now that's another thing, the vast differences in popularity from platform to platform. It's a ghosttown on ps4NA.

I wonder how much our opinions are influenced by the platform we play on.

PS4 NA here as well and the zone is very populated. Mostly with people asking to be power leveled or taken into SkyReach or people looking for pug trial runs. Mostly tons of people stand around in town showing off their trial skins and personalities and colorful mounts.

Ninrod86

Game needs a vet dwelves/Pdgs/ Overland system. They could also make wb harder and more massive for them.

You should be enable to switch btwen normal/vet instances. If dont like it, just dont go there and stay on your basic instance picking up flowers.

Also, Craglorn was mess due to its *** quest system. The concept of it is not bad at all, it was just bad implemented.
The quest should have been like mini events and the place more crowded with mobs.

The game need a kind of " reason" for ppl go to new areas, its not fun at all to one shot mobs experiencing new content.

Nomadic_Atmoran

Nestor wrote: »

If Craglorn had been released with mostly Solo content even on the scale of harder public dungeons with a solo main quest, it would have done much better.

But, during the first year, they thought the players wanted more group content. What the players wanted, and still want, is more content, with some of it groupable but optional to the main story.

In the first year there was a lot of vocal minorities screaming to the heavens demanding change that ZOS was inevitably going to follow some of the dead-end feedback they were receiving.

Unfortunately Craglorn was on the the areas that unfortunately seemed cool in the beginning but completely failed to address the overwhelming solo players that they drew in with the TES brand.

Magenpie

Ninrod86 wrote: »

Game needs a vet dwelves/Pdgs/ Overland system. They could also make wb harder and more massive for them.

You should be enable to switch btwen normal/vet instances. If dont like it, just dont go there and stay on your basic instance picking up flowers.

Also, Craglorn was mess due to its *** quest system. The concept of it is not bad at all, it was just bad implemented.
The quest should have been like mini events and the place more crowded with mobs.

The game need a kind of " reason" for ppl go to new areas, its not fun at all to one shot mobs experiencing new content.

Speaking as a Filthy Casual (although I object to the term somewhat) I agree with you. Ideally speaking an mmo world should appeal to all kinds of players, mainly because you get the most customers that way. I can't believe there isn't a way of offering the majority of content to all kinds of players, but I really balk at something being of value to one kind of player simply because it's to the detriment of another.

If you (I mean the imaginary person kind of you, not YOU) can only enjoy an aspect of the game purely because it denies another player their enjoyment of it, then I can't help thinking some therapy may be required. And I'm not talking about willingly taking part in PvP, or similar - getting effed off because you got murderated is part of the deal, yes? And revenge is so sweet I gather.

But, to me, what makes the mmo genre so great is that they generally do cater to a wide variety of gameplay, in the way of a real world. This is what makes the place live and breathe, which is why I boringly bang on about all different kinds of players supporting each others requests. I don't want to PvP but I very much want other players to have that opportunity. I don't want to raid but think great big raids with top phat lootz are a brilliant thing. etc etc.

I think the open world/main narrative in the game - particularly as some people are paying for the damn game on a monthly basis - should be accessible to everyone, but I'm fine with contained instances having their own special stories/loot/whatever. God forbid ESO turns into a Lucas-style place where bizarrely and against all odds, everyone and everything is somehow connected by family or tale. That just makes the world feel smaller. And bonkers.

I do wish ZOS would start offering mount drops, pets etc in dungeons, and maybe make them level specific, as WoW does. It doesn't harm anyone, gives players more reason to run old content, and makes for sticky player retention. And you can tempt players into harder content by offering exclusive cosmetic rewards for completing things on harder modes.

I appear to be blethering on. Apols.

Ashtaris

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

I feel like the solution would be simple. Dont make ovefland 'group' content, tune it to be challenging for solo play.

There has been some mention in the forums of a “difficulty slider” in the settings. Where players could ramp up overland and delve difficulty (on demand) with maybe a guaranteed purple reward.

At the end of the day, however, this is an MMO ... and not a solo RPG.

A lot of forum-goers forget that when they post their clutter threads on increasing overland/dungeon difficulty.

And to reiterate ... the vast majority of players want more difficult content without finishing the difficult content already in the game.

Yes, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with given the OPTION of having a difficulty slider for the overland content. That’s still not going to prevent group playing, and in fact I would say it might encourage it with increased training and combat awareness to be able to handle the Vet dungeons and trials.

Sevn

Michaelkeir wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

On xbox us server it stays populated and is where you go to pick up pug trials.

Now that's another thing, the vast differences in popularity from platform to platform. It's a ghosttown on ps4NA.

I wonder how much our opinions are influenced by the platform we play on.

PS4 NA here as well and the zone is very populated. Mostly with people asking to be power leveled or taken into SkyReach or people looking for pug trial runs. Mostly tons of people stand around in town showing off their trial skins and personalities and colorful mounts.

I concur and that's what I mean, standing around towns showing off skins or looking for carries or pug trials is not the same as being out in the world as a soloist doing the challenging content like the delves or the world bosses. That's what I mean by ghost town.

Any town you go to in most zones is going to have plenty of players hanging around. Not the same as playing the content.

Agenericname

Magenpie wrote: »

I have another thread up here about a zone for that exact same purpose and that sounds sweet as heck and bell

But why limit it to one new zone? Why not a toggle for the whole shebang? More fun, yes?

A toggle would be fine. A zone might be a stretch. We have threads about locking story behind dungeons that can be completed on normal, having a zone like that could crash the forums.

I agree on the mounts. I think we had one recently, or semi-recently. I suspect the loot crates are the reason we don't have them.

Magenpie

I concur and that's what I mean, standing around towns showing off skins or looking for carries or pug trials is not the same as being out in the world as a soloist doing the challenging content like the delves or the world bosses.

Really sorry this is so off-topic, but I now have an image of you in a glade somewhere, bodies strewn about the floor, furiously playing a grand piano or cello (or similar) and this picture delights me.

PopotoSalad

Turn Cyrodil into an adventure zone.

Dusk_Coven

Ninrod86 wrote: »

The game need a kind of " reason" for ppl go to new areas, its not fun at all to one shot mobs experiencing new content.

And it looks like what they are trying is locking content behind dailies -- like chance of motif drop from daily, chance of runebox piece from daily, minimum number of quests to unlock a feature in the HQ. And then there's making you go there to pick up daily loot (is that tedious-lame or innovative?).

Might be too soon to tell since that last Elsweyr DLC was just released. Maybe in a year we'll see if it's deserted and people don't even care to pick up their loot. Or if it's still going strong and people keep passing through.

OWLTHEMAD

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Ninrod86 wrote: »

The game need a kind of " reason" for ppl go to new areas, its not fun at all to one shot mobs experiencing new content.

And it looks like what they are trying is locking content behind dailies -- like chance of motif drop from daily, chance of runebox piece from daily, minimum number of quests to unlock a feature in the HQ. And then there's making you go there to pick up daily loot (is that tedious-lame or innovative?).

Might be too soon to tell since that last Elsweyr DLC was just released. Maybe in a year we'll see if it's deserted and people don't even care to pick up their loot. Or if it's still going strong and people keep passing through.

I kind of like having a legit incentive like what they did in southern elsweyr (achievement furnishing and base building) but the actual payoff fell completely flat and i ended up not doing them. My main is grandmaster crafter so i keep up with motif, but sometimes i just outright buy them if i think they look real nice. Dragonguard looked real nice, so i ended up not doing the dailies at all. Ill eventually get around to doing them but. . . Just to satisfy my completionist tendencies. I have neither need nor want of the achievement furninshing in this particular case, especially at the price that achievement furnishings are >:(. And the craftingtable was at my guild house faster then should have been reasonably possible. Not that i needed the set at all.

Im not sure what a proper solution would be, but having the quests be enjoyable enough to do for their own sake would be a good start.

I wouldnt call it innovative, its not fully featured enough for that, i wouldnt call it lame because its kind of a good idea but not taken nearly far enough with the incentive, but with its current execution, having to to complete it over the course of several days, (i think someone said it takes almost 2 weeks) for so little reward, that you then have to spend gold on, or in the case of the table can just wait and get at a guild hall, it can absolutely be called TEDIOUS. (Holy run-on sentences batman!)

I hope development sees this far into the thread because i think this is an important topic that warrants more discussion on its own.

Na0cho

Kendaric wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

I feel like the solution would be simple. Dont make ovefland 'group' content, tune it to be challenging for solo play.

I donh know, ive just been wishing/hoping for content that was as challenging and as involved as craglorn was my first time through. It was soloable by then but still sufficiently difficult to actually demand attention.

As long as ir's optional I don't see an issue with iit. Though aside from a few vocal individuals, I doubt it would see much use or Craglorn wouldn't have failed to draw people in.

Define optional?

If there’s any reward at all that cannot be gained elsewhere or achievements to be had, people that cannot do challenging content solo will raise arms and shout to the heavens.

“Snot fair”.

Unfortunately there’s ALOT more people who DONT want challenge than people who do.

I would say the majority of this player base wants to sleepwalk through the content and get handed rewards. At least that’s what I see whenever o come on the forums.

Ravena

I've played since beta and never touched Craglorn. I'm not a social butterfly.

The_Saint

BisDasBlutGefriert wrote: »

(off topic slightly)

I can't remember if murkmire was before, or after one tamriel. Was it announced as an adventure zone before release,before one tamriel. Then came out as a regular zone on release post one tamriel? I'm curious on reasoning behind switching murkmire to regular zone, like the OPs question of whatever happened to adventure zones.

@BisDasBlutGefriert
long time before One Tamriel
Short after the release 2014


https://youtu.be/1gNVxn80j4g?t=4536


Adventure Zones maybe were a Paul Sage idea.
I will ask Rich when i see him next time about adventure Zones...

Zulera301

Craglorn in its current state is soloable for the most part, including the group delves. The only things that I haven't been able to solo there were those Anka-Ra events where you protect the stargazer priest/ess from getting killed, since there's just too many mobs pouring fire onto that hapless chum's arse for me to keep him standing.

can't say I'd mind seeing another zone like that though. challenging enough that I couldn't just roflstomp everything, but also not plagued with stupid gimmicky mechanics and oneshot BS. *glances at DLC dungeons*