Onslaught Nerf

MartiniDaniels

I agree that Onslaught now is most popular and effective stam ultimate. But given all the options for burst follow-up protection (S&B block/heal, mist, BRP DW, defensive ultimates etc) taking another 1.5-2k from burst damage will do nothing good.
Maybe instead of nerfing onslaught, we can buff DBoS, Incap, Meteor?

Miloscpolski

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I agree that Onslaught now is most popular and effective stam ultimate. But given all the options for burst follow-up protection (S&B block/heal, mist, BRP DW, defensive ultimates etc) taking another 1.5-2k from burst damage will do nothing good.
Maybe instead of nerfing onslaught, we can buff DBoS, Incap, Meteor?

incap is op

MartiniDaniels

Miloscpolski wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I agree that Onslaught now is most popular and effective stam ultimate. But given all the options for burst follow-up protection (S&B block/heal, mist, BRP DW, defensive ultimates etc) taking another 1.5-2k from burst damage will do nothing good.
Maybe instead of nerfing onslaught, we can buff DBoS, Incap, Meteor?

incap is op

Good joke

ESO_Nightingale

Onslaught isn't fun to fight against.

JinxxND

Miloscpolski wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I agree that Onslaught now is most popular and effective stam ultimate. But given all the options for burst follow-up protection (S&B block/heal, mist, BRP DW, defensive ultimates etc) taking another 1.5-2k from burst damage will do nothing good.
Maybe instead of nerfing onslaught, we can buff DBoS, Incap, Meteor?

incap is op

Why are most stamblade opting for onslaught or even soul harvest right now over it. Funny joke though.

relentless_turnip

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Onslaught isn't fun to fight against.

If you can CC or you're nb/sorc... otherwise you are definitely going to die

iCaliban

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I agree that Onslaught now is most popular and effective stam ultimate. But given all the options for burst follow-up protection (S&B block/heal, mist, BRP DW, defensive ultimates etc) taking another 1.5-2k from burst damage will do nothing good.
Maybe instead of nerfing onslaught, we can buff DBoS, Incap, Meteor?

Strongly agree. Even as a light armor sorc, onslaught doesn't feel overtuned at all right now. This is a bad nerf.

Db needs cast time removed. Meteor could use a nerf on the ground dot coupled with an increase in direct damage or aoe size (not both). Incap should stun instead of silence and no cast time

technohic

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I agree that Onslaught now is most popular and effective stam ultimate. But given all the options for burst follow-up protection (S&B block/heal, mist, BRP DW, defensive ultimates etc) taking another 1.5-2k from burst damage will do nothing good.
Maybe instead of nerfing onslaught, we can buff DBoS, Incap, Meteor?

Absolutely agree. Ultimates should feel awesome. They keep moving them to almost feeling like just another burst ability like frag or relentless focus proc, POTL/PL, or DK Whip to begin with, but then have cast times which often cause them to not go off at all let alone go off on time. We are down to only leap and onslaught feeling powerful but getting nerfs in effectiveness or cast time; then crescent sweep still does not have a cast time and I imagine if its not next, the tears will flow until it is. And the necro ult is still good.

Then people wonder why its so hard to kill anyone.

TimeDazzler

Onslaught gives roughly 25k pen for 5s (if we average peoples resist in PvP) and hits super hard, plus has a small AoE attached for added measure. It is beyond broken, for comparison spriggans 5 piece gives 3450 penetration. So using onslaught gives you 25,000/3540 = 7.25 spriggan 5 piece bonus for 5 seconds. Is there any other ultimate in the game that gives you the effectiveness of 7 sets worth of damage? It's no wonder this skill is banned from every major dueling tourney and everyone in Wayrest is crutching on it right now.

It would still be a solid tier ultimate if the 5s of pen was completely removed which needs to be.

EtTuBrutus

Onslaught is broken and EASILY adds easy more than 2k to my burst combos. You're nuts if u think anything should be brought to these levels.

MartiniDaniels

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Onslaught is broken and EASILY adds easy more than 2k to my burst combos. You're nuts if u think anything should be brought to these levels.

And what's your burst? I played in medium with 25k resistances last 30 hours and died in 1v1 one time to a glass cannon magsorc. All the mighty onslaught swingers usually left you at 30-40% HP which is more then enough to recover back to full HP if you use one of the numerous burst protection tools. Block/heal with S&B allows to survive onslaught follow-up. Mist+pot/rally or cc on mist exit cancels it. BRP DW with solid uptime will leave you at even higher HP after onslaught... Sorcs can spam shield / streak out. Onslaught kills only if target can't break free fast enough. So it should be some lag spike or unbreakable fear. Break free from common stuns is instant when game runs more or less ok.
I think Onslaught is alright now but many other ultis are weaker. So it looks logical to buff them, instead of reducing damage.

Rahar

imagine defending onslaught

StShoot

Remembre the times when players complained that corosiv amor was to strong ?

Well here we have a hard hiting ult wiht one of the strongest buffs attached to it.


This ult shouldnt be in the game in the first place. If the ppl are to tanky change cps, change healing ( in a smart way)

MartiniDaniels

Rahar wrote: »

imagine defending onslaught

Ok, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I don't know something. Without irony - can you share stamina kill combo without onslaught with burst high enough to kill typical 30k resistances S&B/2H nord running around Cyrodiil and who can break free fast, keeps heals up, knows how to roll-dodge and when to block?

Fur_like_snow

They took the best part about corrosive(the pen) and gave it to every stam player using 2H. Then made it cheaper than corrosive. It allows players to build defensively but still be deadly in that burst window. It’s hard to compare other ultimates since 2H does so much and some fights wouldn’t end without it. IMO 2H does to much but the game doesn’t give a reasonable alternative if you’re stam so what are you suppose to do in a meta where players can burst heal themselves to full in 2 or less GCD.

MartiniDaniels

Fur_like_snow wrote: »

They took the best part about corrosive(the pen) and gave it to every stam player using 2H. Then made it cheaper than corrosive. It allows players to build defensively but still be deadly in that burst window. It’s hard to compare other ultimates since 2H does so much and some fights wouldn’t end without it. IMO 2H does to much but the game doesn’t give a reasonable alternative if you’re stam so what are you suppose to do in a meta where players can burst heal themselves to full in 2 or less GCD.

Yes! That's why other ultimates (magicka ones too) should be buffed to onslaught level, instead of nerfing onslaught. This game needs more damage not less damage. Meanwhile, looking at patch notes... with exception of new sets everything else is about decreasing damage. Off-balance nerfed, onslaught nerfed, leap nerfed, meteor nerfed, templar block heal buffed, blade cloak buffed...

x48rph

It's honestly just to the ridiculous point now. They've just given it a steady stream of nerf after nerf after nerf. I'm of the opinion now that no matter how weak it becomes, until people just stop using it, they'll keep nerfing. They obviously want to make it no longer viable so it can be added to the long list of other abilities that were killed off.

NobleX35

Considering we’re probably in one of the worst (if not the worst) tank metas in the history of this game, I completely agree that this is a bad nerf.

Anything that reduces damage output/burst potential is a bad move until the tank meta is properly addressed.

I also agree that a better approach would have been to buff under performing ultimates to better match onslaught.

mursie

what i find truly sad, is that the justification for keeping onslaught the way it is has more to do with how broken CP currently is.

people defending onslaught (which is definitely broken) are defending it because the reality is, without it, you can't kill anything in CP. that's how broken CP is. sit around and stagnate until onslaught ultimate and then prepare well timed 5 sec burst to hopefully score a kill

CP has ruined combat and the only thing viable to score kills...are absolutely busted ultimates like onslaught.

Artorias24

Cries wrote: »

Onslaught gives roughly 25k pen for 5s (if we average peoples resist in PvP) and hits super hard, plus has a small AoE attached for added measure. It is beyond broken, for comparison spriggans 5 piece gives 3450 penetration. So using onslaught gives you 25,000/3540 = 7.25 spriggan 5 piece bonus for 5 seconds. Is there any other ultimate in the game that gives you the effectiveness of 7 sets worth of damage? It's no wonder this skill is banned from every major dueling tourney and everyone in Wayrest is crutching on it right now.

It would still be a solid tier ultimate if the 5s of pen was completely removed which needs to be.

Ever heard of Corrosive?

iCaliban

Artorias24 wrote: »

Cries wrote: »

Onslaught gives roughly 25k pen for 5s (if we average peoples resist in PvP) and hits super hard, plus has a small AoE attached for added measure. It is beyond broken, for comparison spriggans 5 piece gives 3450 penetration. So using onslaught gives you 25,000/3540 = 7.25 spriggan 5 piece bonus for 5 seconds. Is there any other ultimate in the game that gives you the effectiveness of 7 sets worth of damage? It's no wonder this skill is banned from every major dueling tourney and everyone in Wayrest is crutching on it right now.

It would still be a solid tier ultimate if the 5s of pen was completely removed which needs to be.

Ever heard of Corrosive?

Corrosive doesn't come with massive burst damage to start the fight. And is more expensive. Also limited to one class and spec

Ive seen mag players run onslaught. Which should tell you something

Fur_like_snow

Reasonable alternatives must exist for players to choose different setups. Look at the DW ultimate when was the last time you saw that on your death recap? Just nerfing the only stam ultimate that can end certain fights in CP doesn’t make the other stam ultimates more appealing ZeniMax. Smh

NyassaV

Miloscpolski wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I agree that Onslaught now is most popular and effective stam ultimate. But given all the options for burst follow-up protection (S&B block/heal, mist, BRP DW, defensive ultimates etc) taking another 1.5-2k from burst damage will do nothing good.
Maybe instead of nerfing onslaught, we can buff DBoS, Incap, Meteor?

incap is op

*was

Sneakers

Dont you ppl Dodge roll ons? You hear the sound roll 1 time and take 0 dmg.

[Snip]

Maybe the pen from ONS should be tied to A 2H WEP skills..since how many dizzy/wrecking can you really land in 5s vs someone dodge rolling away?

Templars dropping ons and going to town on ppl with pol n jabs on 0% resis with 40% snare i can see that..being frustrating ppl.

Desyncing CC
OP sub skills from other lines then 2H

But sure nerf ons.
[Snip]

[Edited for bait]

Rahar

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

imagine defending onslaught

Ok, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I don't know something. Without irony - can you share stamina kill combo without onslaught with burst high enough to kill typical 30k resistances S&B/2H nord running around Cyrodiil and who can break free fast, keeps heals up, knows how to roll-dodge and when to block?

Play stamden/stamplar. Bugs, Dizzy, Off Balance stun, DB, Execute. For plar, PotL, Javelin (maybe), DB, Jabs. Results may vary, but these are incredibly deadly combos when timed right. Sarcasm/irony/whathaveyou aside, Stam has an incredibly strong kit baseline unless you're something like a nightblade in which case gl lmao

Casterial

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I agree that Onslaught now is most popular and effective stam ultimate. But given all the options for burst follow-up protection (S&B block/heal, mist, BRP DW, defensive ultimates etc) taking another 1.5-2k from burst damage will do nothing good.
Maybe instead of nerfing onslaught, we can buff DBoS, Incap, Meteor?

They nerfed the only viable ultimate for stamina in pvp.

Rahar

mursie wrote: »

what i find truly sad, is that the justification for keeping onslaught the way it is has more to do with how broken CP currently is.

people defending onslaught (which is definitely broken) are defending it because the reality is, without it, you can't kill anything in CP. that's how broken CP is. sit around and stagnate until onslaught ultimate and then prepare well timed 5 sec burst to hopefully score a kill

CP has ruined combat and the only thing viable to score kills...are absolutely busted ultimates like onslaught.

I understand what you're saying and agree that CP has introduced too much power creep (especially in the most recent patch due to scaled up healing), but this isn't even a CP exclusive problem like you make it out to be. Venture into any BG at high MMR and you encounter the same exact problem: Too much base tankiness, high mitigation, free healing, and ult dumps as the only viable method for kills.

Nirnroot420

Onslaught is like the Bloodspawn of Ultimates right now, in that so many were nerfed to being near useless that Onslaught shines like an overpowered city on the hill at the moment, to the point where if you're magicka melee let alone just stamina it's hands down the bast ulti in the game because it can actually do damage due to the penetration negating the tank meta.

I have a feeling tha tmost "elite" players who would complain about a high damage ultimate are kids being carried hard by sets like BRP DW and BRP Resto, who only ever receive meaningful damage while in an Onslaught, necro or warden ulti. Nerfing damage as consistently and intensely as ZoS has done over the past two metas (with the exception of DoTs for a minute) does nothing but remove skill from the game and turn it into a carebear hugbox where bad players LARP as skillful while being hard-carried by braindead arena sets.

Onslaught can be toned down a bit, sure, but not much we need damage boosts to offensive ultimates across the board. Not nerfs.

Casterial

mursie wrote: »

what i find truly sad, is that the justification for keeping onslaught the way it is has more to do with how broken CP currently is.

people defending onslaught (which is definitely broken) are defending it because the reality is, without it, you can't kill anything in CP. that's how broken CP is. sit around and stagnate until onslaught ultimate and then prepare well timed 5 sec burst to hopefully score a kill

CP has ruined combat and the only thing viable to score kills...are absolutely busted ultimates like onslaught.

We also have to take into account that most ultimates suck in CP, they continually nerf and make them bad. We had DB while Onslaught was good, DB was used much more. DB got a cast time, DB now misses A LOT in this quick combat based game. Thus, DB was used minimally and only situation based.

MartiniDaniels

Rahar wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

imagine defending onslaught

Ok, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I don't know something. Without irony - can you share stamina kill combo without onslaught with burst high enough to kill typical 30k resistances S&B/2H nord running around Cyrodiil and who can break free fast, keeps heals up, knows how to roll-dodge and when to block?

Play stamden/stamplar. Bugs, Dizzy, Off Balance stun, DB, Execute. For plar, PotL, Javelin (maybe), DB, Jabs. Results may vary, but these are incredibly deadly combos when timed right. Sarcasm/irony/whathaveyou aside, Stam has an incredibly strong kit baseline unless you're something like a nightblade in which case gl lmao

Stamden problem is that all that powerful combo is easily dodgeable. Yes, when somebody else cc'd you and then shalk train arrive from backside warden doesn't need onslaught. But in 1v1 all those DBoS wardens... I see how those DBoS just hit ground. Or DBoS lands but dizzy miss.. or shalks miss. And to put average modern PVP-er to execute zone you need to land all 3 - shalks, dizzy and DBoS. While in case of onslaught shalks+onslaught might be enough.

Stamplar doesn't have access to major fracture. At all. So onslaught imo is best for stamplar for all cases with exception of killing squishes where cheap instant empowering sweep can be better.

Maybe necro next patch with all his pet dots and major defile will be able to kill without onslaught, we'll see.

Some ballista builds can be deadly... but they are cheezy.

olsborg

I dunno. They should softcap resists again imo. Something needs to be done with all the passive mitigation (and healing).