Winter’s Embrace Skill Line

llBlack_Heartll

Since the proposed addition to the Glacial Presence passive the Warden is currently receiving.
I’d like to see some of the skill line updated, so we can slot other sources of cold damage.

1. Ice Fortress - Remove minor protection and add a damage over time like Solar Barrage from the Templar Skill line.

Wrap a thick cloak of ice around you and nearby allies. The ice grants  Major Resolve, increasing Physical and Spell Resistance, by 5280 for 20seconds.
Conjure a blizzard to blast enemies around you, dealing X Amount of Cold Damage every 2 seconds for 20 seconds.

2. Polar Wind - Remove ability to heal ally, Reduce Burst Heal, increase duration and Scale with Highest Stat.

Envelop yourself in winter winds, instantly healing for X Health and an additional X Health every 1 second over 20 seconds. While the effect persists the winds pulse outwards, dealing X Frost Damage every 1 second to nearby enemies. The healing & damage from this ability scales with your Highest Stat.

Obviously both won’t be changed but just one would be nice. Personally I like the second one, as this would allow Stamina to also use the passive.

ESO_Nightingale

I don't really think those ideas are very good for the class. Both of those really hurt the tanks. i think it's best to think about the buff to glacial presence as a buff that magicka warden can give to stamina warden when in a group. i think that buffing stamden for PvE is a great idea, but i think it the passive should remain as is on PTS, and stamden gain it's own buffs that i've shown here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fWoOX0S4yrR_KFZcjBAvHvR2K6T__6LrIGiaERV8NQA/edit?usp=sharing

llBlack_Heartll

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I don't really think those ideas are very good for the class. Both of those really hurt the tanks.

Tanks generally use the other morph of Ice Fortress, not sure about Polar Winds, healing 1 ally isn’t game breaking, when the healer should be doing it.

ESO_Nightingale

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I don't really think those ideas are very good for the class. Both of those really hurt the tanks.

Tanks generally use the other morph of Ice Fortress, not sure about Polar Winds, healing 1 ally isn’t game breaking, when the healer should be doing it.

This is incorrect. Expansive Frost Cloak is a more niche morph that is only used in some certain trials to reach far away allies. Ice Fortress gives more mitigation for the tank to take less damage and is prefered in most scenarios from what i've seen. Polar Wind is the prefered Arctic Wind morph as it can help spread minor toughness to the group, and save an ally in a critical position. Arctic Blast applies an AoE stun to lock down enemies, when gripping shards already has the same purpose, instead it just applies an immobilise.

Additionally i edited my original comment, so take a look at that if you have not already done so.

llBlack_Heartll

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

I don't really think those ideas are very good for the class. Both of those really hurt the tanks.

Tanks generally use the other morph of Ice Fortress, not sure about Polar Winds, healing 1 ally isn’t game breaking, when the healer should be doing it.

This is incorrect. Expansive Frost Cloak is a more niche morph that is only used in some certain trials to reach far away allies. Ice Fortress gives more mitigation for the tank to take less damage and is prefered in most scenarios from what i've seen. Polar Wind is the prefered Arctic Wind morph as it can help spread minor toughness to the group, and save an ally in a critical position. Arctic Blast applies an AoE stun to lock down enemies, when gripping shards already has the same purpose, instead it just applies an immobilise.

Additionally i edited my original comment, so take a look at that if you have not already done so.

Wow give me a few to read your idea’s. Looks like you have put a lot of thought and time into it.
I thought about changes to the Animal Skills to Frost, but thought, too many would spit chips over it. Plus my thoughts were, there is a Cold Skill line that only has one DPS ability it.

100% down for changes to the Animal Skill Line to Frost, as I’m not keen on equipping a frost staff just to get the passive to proc.

llBlack_Heartll

I read all your propose changes. Makes absolute sense and really fantastic ideas, as well a incorporating improvements to Stam DPS with the change to a few skills and 1 passive.

Have you posted these ideas yet?

ESO_Nightingale

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

I read all your propose changes. Makes absolute sense and really fantastic ideas, as well a incorporating improvements to Stam DPS with the change to a few skills and 1 passive.

Have you posted these ideas yet?

They have already been given to a class rep to send to the developers.

We already got several of our ideas in the past. Sometimes in forms we didn't expect. So i thought maybe discussing our issues with other people and updating the massive list with known bugs and more well thought out ideas with explanations that express our concerns would be a good idea.

I want Warden to be a fun class with interesting skills and fleshed out ideas for themes. Where the damage skills would be where the power of our class is, rather than being concentrated on the passives. I also don't want warden to be overpowered. Which is why we also targeted issues that others have with the class in attempt to balance the suggestions.

llBlack_Heartll

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

I read all your propose changes. Makes absolute sense and really fantastic ideas, as well a incorporating improvements to Stam DPS with the change to a few skills and 1 passive.

Have you posted these ideas yet?

They have already been given to a class rep to send to the developers.

We already got several of our ideas in the past. Sometimes in forms we didn't expect. So i thought maybe discussing our issues with other people and updating the massive list with known bugs and more well thought out ideas with explanations that express our concerns would be a good idea.

I want Warden to be a fun class with interesting skills and fleshed out ideas for themes. Where the damage skills would be where the power of our class is, rather than being concentrated on the passives. I also don't want warden to be overpowered. Which is why we also targeted issues that others have with the class in attempt to balance the suggestions.

All the changes really gives the Warden a true identity. I really hope they listen to your ideas, it would truly make the class a ton of fun.

The time you must of put into that list, great work 👍

llBlack_Heartll

@ESO_Nightingale
Just in regards to Lotus Bloom - Would a slight Ice bonus to Light and Heavy Attacks (Like Elemental Weapon) for the duration be a good incentive to use the Skill.

ESO_Nightingale

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

@ESO_Nightingale
Just in regards to Lotus Bloom - Would a slight Ice bonus to Light and Heavy Attacks (Like Elemental Weapon) for the duration be a good incentive to use the Skill.

Not sure. Maybe even a bonus for healers would be good.

idk

1. The suggestion concerning Ice Fortress makes no sense. No aspect of the skill is like Solar barrage or it's base skill. OP clearly does not understand the obvious intent of the skill based on what they are suggesting. Further, tanks would use this morph over the other morph specifically for the buff OP is suggesting be removed.

2.It has already been pointed out that Polar Winds is a good way for the tank to spread the toughness buff.

OP has followed up stating that the winter embrace has only one dps skill but they seem to not understand that that skill line is intended to mostly lean towards tanking. The design is pretty clear just as the Green Balance line is pretty much designed towards healing.

llBlack_Heartll

idk wrote: »

1. The suggestion concerning Ice Fortress makes no sense. No aspect of the skill is like Solar barrage or it's base skill. OP clearly does not understand the obvious intent of the skill based on what they are suggesting. Further, tanks would use this morph over the other morph specifically for the buff OP is suggesting be removed.

2.It has already been pointed out that Polar Winds is a good way for the tank to spread the toughness buff.

OP has followed up stating that the winter embrace has only one dps skill but they seem to not understand that that skill line is intended to mostly lean towards tanking. The design is pretty clear just as the Green Balance line is pretty much designed towards healing.

A better way to spread Toughness would be to use Leeching Vines, as it would spread to the whole group, once it has applied life steal. You can buff a whole trial group, but lack a burst heal, unless using leeching plate.

But you aren’t getting that the change the the passive is going to be giving 10% crit damage for applying chill status, only 1 skill in the Warden’s arsenal can actually apply that, every thing else you need to get from other sources, or equip and ice staff, which isn’t viable.
Also the passive that buffs Frost by 10%, doesn’t actually make sense either for a dps, considering the whole winter skill line is, as you say for tanking.

Why have passives that don’t actually target, the strengths of the class. 10% Frost damage, isn’t going to do jack s*** for a Tank and the Winters Embrace Skills, bar 1.
So something need to change.

Lughlongarm

No thank you.

MashmalloMan

llBlack_Heartll wrote: »

idk wrote: »

1. The suggestion concerning Ice Fortress makes no sense. No aspect of the skill is like Solar barrage or it's base skill. OP clearly does not understand the obvious intent of the skill based on what they are suggesting. Further, tanks would use this morph over the other morph specifically for the buff OP is suggesting be removed.

2.It has already been pointed out that Polar Winds is a good way for the tank to spread the toughness buff.

OP has followed up stating that the winter embrace has only one dps skill but they seem to not understand that that skill line is intended to mostly lean towards tanking. The design is pretty clear just as the Green Balance line is pretty much designed towards healing.

A better way to spread Toughness would be to use Leeching Vines, as it would spread to the whole group, once it has applied life steal. You can buff a whole trial group, but lack a burst heal, unless using leeching plate.

But you aren’t getting that the change the the passive is going to be giving 10% crit damage for applying chill status, only 1 skill in the Warden’s arsenal can actually apply that, every thing else you need to get from other sources, or equip and ice staff, which isn’t viable.
Also the passive that buffs Frost by 10%, doesn’t actually make sense either for a dps, considering the whole winter skill line is, as you say for tanking.

Why have passives that don’t actually target, the strengths of the class. 10% Frost damage, isn’t going to do jack s*** for a Tank and the Winters Embrace Skills, bar 1.
So something need to change.

The passives are there to allow Wardens a chance at being the most viable ice oriented mage in the game, while keeping the design intent for ice staves as a magicka tanking tool. From inception, the Companion tree is meant for damage dealing and you can't go replacing tank morphs of abilities just to serve the ice theme. You can think of ice wardens as a sub class in a way, but most of their damage abilities are magicka damage, to which they also get +10% to. That being said, it's becoming more viable over time to play as an ice mage with wardens.

It's not fair to take too much away from ice skills to focus on DPS. I'd argue more passives like Warden's need to be implemented for Sorc to show a focus on Shock damage in a similar fashion. Look at sorc, curse and frags aren't shock damage, yet they get +5% to shock damage, but those abilities are fine all things considered.

With more tweaks, you could one day see ice staff being bis for wardens, simply because of passives like Glacial Presence or Piercing Cold. I really don't think they will get any more ice damage abilities, but I do see a chance for 3 things. More passives that reinforce that playstyle. Changing one of the damage types for Shalks/Birds/Flies to ice, my money is on Shalks. Lastly, updating Arctic Blast 1 final time to scale better for damage and duration. This ability works much closer to Hurricane for Stam Sorcs or Solar Barrage for Mag Templar, I'd like to see it bumped up to 10s with more competitive damage. It would need to lose the healing or the stun.

I think Stam Wardens need to drop this whole idea that the new passive should help them. For 1 thing it does, especially as more Ice Warden esque changes come down the pipeline, the context/meta of the game matters here, but you could think of this as a passive not meant for stam wardens, yet benefits you in some capacity depending on the content. Every class has this. You should be asking for things that fit what a stamina warden should feel like.

Why not a damage ability from the Green Balance tree since nature fits the poison/diseased damage type much better. I'd definitely look at Lotus first because the morphs are just opposites of each other. They could be combined into 1 easily with dynamic scaling, opening the door for a new morph. Corrupting Pollen would be my second choice, the other morph provides the hot and instant burst. This 1 is already kind of offensive focussed.

llBlack_Heartll

im Not disagreeing what you are saying and yes there should be changes to accommodate the passive to frost and the chilled effect.

Regards to Sorc, they have a whole skill line of shock damage abilities to choose from.
Which is how the Warden should be.

If you click on ESO_NighinGlales link, 2nd comment, I think it’s pretty much covered there , take a look it’s awesome.

mague

I play a crit based stamden and a ice based magden. There are only two things i want to change.

1st is outside the class. Its the icestaff.

The bonus from Tri Focus should be part of Ancient Knowledge. As replacement the heavy attack turns into a channel like lightning and does a 2-4% maim on 3 targets within 4m for n (maybe 3) secs.

The 2nd one would be a third bear morph. Ice Bear. Does less damage but has minor Maim and radiates 600 healing every sec within 8m