Dot Buff?

ThePhantomThorn

Should dots be buffed?
and by how much?

MashmalloMan

Yes 10% - 20%

The poll isn't very helpful.

You should of positioned it based around their standards that they've already informed us about.

Scalebreaker dots were 2.5x the damage of similar instant spammables, same cost. AOE dots 33% less damage than single target, 1.33x the cost.

Dragonhold dots are 1.5x the damage of similar instant spammables, same cost. AOE dots same damage as single target dots, 1.66x the cost.

PTS dots are 1.5x the damage of similar instant spammables, same cost. AOE dots same damage as single target dots, 1.33x the cost.

Your poll would be more effective worded in a similar way.

I think the standard should be 1.75x personally for aoe and single target. Aoe same damage, 1.33x cost makes sense.

ThePhantomThorn

Yes 10% - 20%

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The poll isn't very helpful.

You should of positioned it based around their standards that they've already informed us about.

Scalebreaker dots were 2.5x the damage of similar instant spammables, same cost. AOE dots 33% less damage than single target, 1.33x the cost.

Dragonhold dots are 1.5x the damage of similar instant spammables, same cost. AOE dots same damage as single target dots, 1.66x the cost.

PTS dots are 1.5x the damage of similar instant spammables, same cost. AOE dots same damage as single target dots, 1.33x the cost.

Your poll would be more effective worded in a similar way.

I think the standard should be 1.75x personally for aoe and single target. Aoe same damage, 1.33x cost makes sense.

tbh idk what any of that means.
what i get is the dot : spammable ratio.
but, thats kinda hard to read

MashmalloMan

Yes 10% - 20%

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The poll isn't very helpful.

You should of positioned it based around their standards that they've already informed us about.

Scalebreaker dots were 2.5x the damage of similar instant spammables, same cost. AOE dots 33% less damage than single target, 1.33x the cost.

Dragonhold dots are 1.5x the damage of similar instant spammables, same cost. AOE dots same damage as single target dots, 1.66x the cost.

PTS dots are 1.5x the damage of similar instant spammables, same cost. AOE dots same damage as single target dots, 1.33x the cost.

Your poll would be more effective worded in a similar way.

I think the standard should be 1.75x personally for aoe and single target. Aoe same damage, 1.33x cost makes sense.

tbh idk what any of that means.
what i get is the dot : spammable ratio.
but, thats kinda hard to read

ZOS now uses a standard to balance cost and damage at the most simple level for spammables and dots.

Single target spammables cost 2700, stamina gets a 15% reduction, making it around 2400. Dots damage and cost follow spammables as their starting point.

On pts. A single target dot = same cost as a spammable and 1.5 times or 50% more damage than a spammable, but obviously over 10seconds.

An aoe dot has the same damage as a single target dot, aka 1.5x or 50% more damage than a spammable, but it now costs 1.33x or 33% more than a spammable. Previously, on live, this was 1.66x the cost and it was TOO expensive. If 2700 is 100% than 133% is 3591.

This is now how they decide balancing of 10s dots. Some abilities like ash cloud for DK, last 18s. So the cost of that ability is much higher. I'm willing to bet the extra 8s is 80% more cost too.

So the question shouldn't be 10%, 20% etc, those numbers don't paint a specific enough picture for people voting or ZOS. The question should be, what standard should they use because that's what they're basing it off of.

Damage vs spammable:
1.5x (Current)
1.75x (my choice)
2x(middle ground)
2.25x
2.5x (Scalebreaker, everyone agreed, too strong)

Tannus15

Yes 10% - 20%

@MashmalloMan has stated it perfectly, and consistantly with how ZoS has put forward their skill standards.

I also agree that 1.75x is a better damage standard.

The fact that you need to choose between dot CP and direct damage CP means that currently you're better off cutting dots from your rotation and just stacking your CP into single target because light attacks and spammables are always going to exist.

ThePhantomThorn

Yes 10% - 20%

MashmalloMan wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

The poll isn't very helpful.

You should of positioned it based around their standards that they've already informed us about.

Scalebreaker dots were 2.5x the damage of similar instant spammables, same cost. AOE dots 33% less damage than single target, 1.33x the cost.

Dragonhold dots are 1.5x the damage of similar instant spammables, same cost. AOE dots same damage as single target dots, 1.66x the cost.

PTS dots are 1.5x the damage of similar instant spammables, same cost. AOE dots same damage as single target dots, 1.33x the cost.

Your poll would be more effective worded in a similar way.

I think the standard should be 1.75x personally for aoe and single target. Aoe same damage, 1.33x cost makes sense.

tbh idk what any of that means.
what i get is the dot : spammable ratio.
but, thats kinda hard to read

ZOS now uses a standard to balance cost and damage at the most simple level for spammables and dots.

Single target spammables cost 2700, stamina gets a 15% reduction, making it around 2400. Dots damage and cost follow spammables as their starting point.

On pts. A single target dot = same cost as a spammable and 1.5 times or 50% more damage than a spammable, but obviously over 10seconds.

An aoe dot has the same damage as a single target dot, aka 1.5x or 50% more damage than a spammable, but it now costs 1.33x or 33% more than a spammable. Previously, on live, this was 1.66x the cost and it was TOO expensive. If 2700 is 100% than 133% is 3591.

This is now how they decide balancing of 10s dots. Some abilities like ash cloud for DK, last 18s. So the cost of that ability is much higher. I'm willing to bet the extra 8s is 80% more cost too.

So the question shouldn't be 10%, 20% etc, those numbers don't paint a specific enough picture for people voting or ZOS. The question should be, what standard should they use because that's what they're basing it off of.

Damage vs spammable:
1.5x (Current)
1.75x (my choice)
2x(middle ground)
2.25x
2.5x (Scalebreaker, everyone agreed, too strong)

ok i get it ty

Zelos

Let's not, you already know they tried and clearly they are incapable of doing it correctly. So just skip it.

ecru

Yes >20%

1.5x over spammable/single target abilities over 10 seconds is by far the lowest i've ever seen in any mmo. Dots are in a very weird, weak place right now. Even DK dots are just not in a great spot because while the overall damage is good, it's just over a longer period of time.

Melee applied dots were in a very good spot before they were buffed during scalebreaker, and I believe they were at about 2x. When scalebreaker hit, all dots were buffed to a pretty absurd degree, and the problem with the buff was that a decision was made to make ranged magicka dots equal in damage to melee applied dots, which was a very bad decision. The opportunity cost of applying a dot in melee vs 28m range is clearly not equal, so the decision to make ranged dots equal to melee applied dots was not the best decision the devs have ever made.

Ranged dots should never be as good as a dot you have to get into melee to apply. There just isn't any good reason for classes to be able to apply the same dot pressure from 28m as a DK can while in melee range. I'd suggest leaving ranged dots as they are, and buffing melee dots back to around 2x at 10s.

Was anyone saying DK dots were overpowered before scalebreaker? They were good abilities, but no one ever came to the forums and complained about venomous claw doing too much damage, and the reason for that is because for you to have three sets of that dot on you, you have to have three DK's on top of you. On the other hand, to get three sets of Entropy on you, you just need to get in range of someone who has it on their bar, and in BGs the moment you poked your head out from behind a pillar that's exactly what you'd get.

MyPrist

Yes >20%

If you buff dots to much - people will play just dots, if you make it like now - they will be useless.

The problem is, that it is too much dots now. If it will be 2-3 maximum dots, that classes can use in summ and they will be strong - people will use tham.

Else if dots get povered - all will be dot1,dot2,...,dot10.

A lot of sets are useless. Some sets were used to get option to take other powefull dots from mage if you are stamina for example, sets that do spd=wpd and etc.

Too much dots now. If it is not hard heating it is more simple to get spam skill + passive empower + some support skills.

It was not a good idea to give 2+ more dots to each class. Destructive staff dot, magick guild dot, all world skills dot.

10 dots is not a option. It is good if there are 2 good dots, like class skill, for example and 1 more. It must not be so many dots in game !!!

Than it can be more powerfull. Else only dots will be in rotation.

Now all is not as bad as before. But if balance will start change again, i think that a lot of people leave the game, becouse - HOW much rebalance it can already be?

Tired from it, stop it already !

TheFM

Yes 10% - 20%

Yep, about 20 percent. Anyone who says otherwise just wants this to be a burst centric game.

mague

Other ?

I want stronger DoT's. But i dont want mindless stacking as meta. There should be something like minor/major wearing (pysical or magical). It should be a "background damage" under LA/HA/skills.

JinMori

Yes >20%

Bring them to about elseweyr levels of power, both aoe and st.

About a 20% buff would be nice though, but i think to get them back to that level we will need more.

kojou

Yes <10%

I would like them to buff DoTs, but only if they can implement some sort of mechanic that also limits the number of DoTs that make sense in a rotation. In other words we all have more than enough DoTs available to us to fill 9/10 slots of our bars with them if they get buffed enough and then we are back where we were before in Scalebreaker. It was a bit too much in Scalebreaker, but a bit too inconsequential now. I prefer them being inconsequential rather than too much.

Maybe they could just buff class DoTs by 10% and leave non-class DoTs as secondary/semi useful?