A ladder to Blackreach? (Spoiler for Greymoor prologue quest)

SaKGEE

So I did the discount Skyrim prologue quest, and guess what, you can access Blackreach via a trapdoor from a tavern. Yes ladies and gentlemen, there is quite literally a ladder to Blackreach.

For the context, in actual Skyrim, you had to venture deep into a dwarven ruin, and then take an elevator from the bottom floor even deeper to get to Blackreach. It’s supposed to be the Underdark, the place deep within the bowels of Nirn where shadows dwell. Not a theme park cave accessible VIA LADDER.

And that’s even without raising the question as to why the Elder Scroll there still hasn’t been found by the time the 4th era comes in if anyone can just access this place and get directly to the Tower of Mzark.

See graph below for illustration



Now personally, as a dilettante quester, I was quite hyped for Skyrim and Solitude (Shoutout to Casual Ranger for inspiring me with his tweets), but even a lore enthusiast like myself cannot just accept that there is a LADDER TO BLACKREACH casually sitting in a tavern in Eastmarch.
Any thoughts?

Thevampirenight

The part of blackreach that will be added into the chapter will be a area that we haven't been to in Skyrim. So that entrance point will be different and located in Solitude or Morthal Region.

MyNameIsElias

I agree, this is kind of dissapointing I would have wanted it to be more difficult to reach.

Thevampirenight

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

I agree, this is kind of dissapointing I would have wanted it to be more difficult to reach.

Well think of blackreach of like a major cave there is many points of entry. One way is to dig from above. The people that dug that tunnel likely took a long time to do it. If the Dwemer could do it so can some witches or vampires interested in whats down there. There might have even been more hidden entrances that were later abandoned and people forget the Black Reach existed. In the hundreds of years later. So I don't see any issue with it.
But where is the Falmer? Why are they not seen down there. They should have been added. That is more concerning then hidden entrances to Blackreach in a basement of a Tavern.

RazielSR

A ladder from a tavern? What is this nonsense.

MyNameIsElias

For additional context, here is a video where you can see how you enter the area via the quest: Skip forwards to 4:50 seconds and watch from there to see how you enter. *SPOILER WARNING*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtmmMsGbk44

MyNameIsElias

Thevampirenight wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

I agree, this is kind of dissapointing I would have wanted it to be more difficult to reach.

Well thing of blackreach of like a major cave there is many points of entry. One way is to dig from above. The people that dug that tunnel likely took a long time to do it. If the Dwemer could do it so can some witches or vampires interested in whats down there. There might have even been more hidden entrances that were later abandoned and people forget the Black Reach existed. In the hundreds of years later. So I don't see any issue with it.
But where is the Falmer? Why are they not seen down there. They should have been added. That is more concerning then hidden entrances to Blackreach in a basement of a Tavern.

I also played through it on PTS, and i didn't see any falmers. There was frost trolls, vampires, mudcrabs, and even a giant down there though.

Thevampirenight

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

Thevampirenight wrote: »

MyNameIsElias wrote: »

I agree, this is kind of dissapointing I would have wanted it to be more difficult to reach.

Well thing of blackreach of like a major cave there is many points of entry. One way is to dig from above. The people that dug that tunnel likely took a long time to do it. If the Dwemer could do it so can some witches or vampires interested in whats down there. There might have even been more hidden entrances that were later abandoned and people forget the Black Reach existed. In the hundreds of years later. So I don't see any issue with it.
But where is the Falmer? Why are they not seen down there. They should have been added. That is more concerning then hidden entrances to Blackreach in a basement of a Tavern.

I also played through it on PTS, and i didn't see any falmers. There was frost trolls, vampires, mudcrabs, and even a giant down there though.

Blackreach without Falmer is stupid. I can understand why the vampires might be down there though and given there was people down there in the forth era. Without any explanation why they were down there it would make sense that people have been living down there for a long time. We just didn't get to see it. So more of a hidden secret of a location that people have been traveling through for hundreds of years possibly. Also another convenience of it would be smuggling avoiding the cold but risks of Dwemer Construct and Falmer attacks. So an underground world that reaches across most of Skyrim. Those Falmer would have to at least have hidden entrances of their own to transport people down into the area in the 4th era. By that time they would have full control over Blackreach most likely. Maybe driving off others and rocking and closing up pathways for security reasons.

Elder scrolls have this tendency to move around so it makes sense that it was located in the Tower. It was likely there because it wanted to be there. By the time of Elder Scrolls Skyrim all the Elder scrolls go missing from the Gold Tower. They are artifacts they move around. That explains why someone might not have found it in there. But it was there during the time period of Skyrim. So it doesn't have to be in the Tower during this time period. it could be in the temple of the Ancestral Moth or maybe in Cyrodiil somewhere. So that might be the case with that because I do doubt someone wouldn't have found it if they have managed to explore the area. Someone is bound to make it through alive and discover it.

Ysbriel

Probably they skipped the whole “shoot to hell” with the loading screen since in remember very well that Blackreach was also accesible using a Dwemer elevator. Having a tavern over the entrance might seem stupid but then again people have bought houses without knowing they were above a mine vent.

MerguezMan

There are 5 elevators to Blackreach.
Digging to Blackreach seems possible, though it's probably not a safe path.

Considering where is Blackreach in Skyrim...

That's clearly not 30% of the map if the upper part goes West to Solitude.
So I guess the 2020 chapter will take us to an extended version.


An invasion of vampires would probably make falmers around hide ?
- Keep in mind falmers have regressed over the years.
- Dwemer disappear in 1E 700. At that time, falmers are known as "snow elves", but have disappeared from the surface.
- ESO is in 2E 582. It's been about 900 years snow elves are blinded by Dwemer toxin, they are considered extinct.
- Skyrim is in 4E 201. That's roughly 1600 years in between. The falmer raids become more frequent.

So, it's possible that falmers would be scattered around Blackreach between 1E700 and 3E, and only start to regroup as a tribal community in Blackreach in 4E.

Dusk_Coven

It's about the same as the Clockwork City "hidden" inside a waterfall tons of people already know about and even send supplies into. i.e., NOT A SECRET
And when you finally get to this super secret city, it's like Joe Schmoes from every corner of Tamriel are already there.

Yeah, it's disappointing.

I have a bad feeling they are going to ruin the immersion of Blackreach just like they bungled the immersion of Clockwork City. For example, all the delicacies of Tamriel will be available whenever you loot a food object even though the rest of Blackreach complains about eating fungus and scribs.

OtarTheMad

I am and was worried about this. I looked EVERYWHERE and did not see them. They said at the event that Falmers were considered ghost stories so I am guessing we won't see many which is pretty dumb. Ghost stories or not Falmer, even in the second era, are going to have a pretty decent population. Can all of the hundreds of them hide? Kind of weird. It would be nice to see what they looked like in the second era, get a better picture of the descent into madness for them. If we don't see any, or see only one or two I think I will be heavily disappointed.

The Dwemer complex under the Dwemer sun is blocked off though, they could be hiding in there

I got a little hope today when I read a post on a Datamine

It showed a face and body markings for both Gloomlurker and Chaurus. That could mean we run into them eventually, or it could just be for nostalgia

Thevampirenight

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

It's about the same as the Clockwork City "hidden" inside a waterfall tons of people already know about and even send supplies into. i.e., NOT A SECRET
And when you finally get to this super secret city, it's like Joe Schmoes from every corner of Tamriel are already there.

Yeah, it's disappointing.

I have a bad feeling they are going to ruin the immersion of Blackreach just like they bungled the immersion of Clockwork City. For example, all the delicacies of Tamriel will be available whenever you loot a food object even though the rest of Blackreach complains about eating fungus and scribs.

Well I suspect that the region of Blackreach that will be the Greymoor version will not be like the one in Skyrim. Though we did get the one seen in Skyrim added to the prologue.
Dwemer seem to have come up with artificial balls that can act like Sunlight for Blackreach yet doesn't harm vampires either. Pretty sure with something like that anything could be grown down there if they knew how. I suspect we might see a natural city similar to the concept seen in the Trailer. But also will see a mix of other things and many of them might not relate to the dwemer but I can see the Vampires or Werewolves of the City using some Dwemer Technology like the Dwemer Artifical Sun Ball thing for plant life and farming. So it might even be better living then living in Clockwork City.

The Solitude/Morthal Blackreach could extend to the Reach and maybe to Markarth itself. Along with the Forgotten Vale. Its a good guess the Falmer didn't just come out of no where if there was ways they could have gotten in by means of Blackreach. Given they are going by the concept it extends to all of Skyrim. That would mean there would be so much of Blackreach that has yet to be explored. They could even extend its exploration throughout all of the Skyrim Dlcs and Chapters they do covering the holds of Skyrim. So there is potential for it if they put their minds to it.

Royaji

Well, it's one very long ladder...

Or we can pretend that you don't just go down a ladder during the loading screen but actually treck a bit through some not important dwemer ruin and take a couple of lifts down. Seems entirely plausible considering how long some of those loading screens could be.

Thevampirenight

Royaji wrote: »

Well, it's one very long ladder...

Or we can pretend that you don't just go down a ladder during the loading screen but actually treck a bit through some not important dwemer ruin and take a couple of lifts down. Seems entirely plausible considering how long some of those loading screens could be.

Its actually

more of a wardrobe or Cabinet that has a hidden passage behind it down in a basement. So more of a secret passage way that leads to Blackreach. So its not exactly a ladder. But a Ladder does lead to the Basement area.

Dusk_Coven

Thevampirenight wrote: »

They could even extend its exploration throughout all of the Skyrim Dlcs and Chapters they do covering the holds of Skyrim. So there is potential for it if they put their minds to it.

My impression is that they hinted strongly enough about Blackreach basically being everywhere underneath you.
If it's popular enough I wouldn't be surprised if it creeps outside of Skyrim's borders.

Starlock

Given how abundant portal magic is in this game, it would have been a lot better to use portal magic. Even though I believe portals are very much overused in this game considering their virtual non-existence in other Elder Scrolls titles, a portal would have been a lot better than a bloody ladder if this is true...

logarifmik

The entrance is in the cupboard! It's Narnia!

VaranisArano

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

It's about the same as the Clockwork City "hidden" inside a waterfall tons of people already know about and even send supplies into. i.e., NOT A SECRET
And when you finally get to this super secret city, it's like Joe Schmoes from every corner of Tamriel are already there.

Yeah, it's disappointing.

I have a bad feeling they are going to ruin the immersion of Blackreach just like they bungled the immersion of Clockwork City. For example, all the delicacies of Tamriel will be available whenever you loot a food object even though the rest of Blackreach complains about eating fungus and scribs.

In all fairness to Clockwork City, that's not so different from how it's "hidden" in TES 3's Tribunal DLC. Plus ESO's Morrowind's plot is dedicated to explaining how it gets revealed to everyone.

That's not quite the same as "by the way, there's a ladder to blackreach in my basement."

Though I've been griping about this sort of thing since Eastmarch and Skuldafn.
Forget Skyrim's epic "You'll never get there without the wings of a dovah" ride on Odahviing. Just use a convenient tunnel!

ghastley

Royaji wrote: »

Well, it's one very long ladder...

Or the ladder is just the first part of the descent. It's like the short ramps in Elden Root that take you hundreds of times the distance up the tree. You don't experience the middle of the journey, just the ends.

The_Lex

It's easier getting down there than you think.

Hallothiel

Actually quite glad that I won’t have to slog out to the middle of nowhere, and have no issue with the entrance being initially in a basement in Eastmarch - the idea that one entrance to (the much over-hyped) Blackreach is in a basement in Eastmarch is incredibly pleasing!

The_Lex

The_Lex wrote: »

It's easier getting down there than you think.

However, this is how it will work in an MMO:

Tryxus

Maybe it originally was a garbage chute, where the innkeeper could discreetly dispose of any horrible skalds and bards that would perform at the inn?

SeaGtGruff

It seems quite reasonable to me, since there's nothing to say that any vampires or other villains using Blackreach as a lair or hideout couldn't dig their way in or out and construct a ladder for convenient access. Since this is all taking place long before the events in TES5:Skyrim, many changes will have taken place between now and then, and it's reasonable to think that one of those changes might be the sealing off of any convenient accesses to Blackreach.

Besides, Blackreach can be conveniently accessed without having to make your way deep into a Dwemer ruin, once you've been there and come back out via one of the elevators scattered about in the wilderness, then unlocked the gate so you can conveniently use that elevator at a later time.

ArchMikem

People trying to justify a simple ladder. A ladder that has to be several hundred feet at least. I agree with OP, this is really, really lazy, even for a prologue quest.

SeaGtGruff

So you're saying that Blackreach is all on one level, with no elevated areas? Because I'm pretty sure I remember Blackreach as having a lot of verticality.

Gorak

ArchMikem wrote: »

People trying to justify a simple ladder. A ladder that has to be several hundred feet at least. I agree with OP, this is really, really lazy, even for a prologue quest.

The ladder just accesses the basement of the tavern. The entrance to Blackreach is in turn accessed from the basement - no ladders involved in that part.

Nestor

I remember it was quite the slog to get into Blackreach the first time, but quite easy to get out again. I thought you could use that same shortcut to go back, but it has beeb so long since i returned to Blackreach

grizzledcroc

I can see this building collapsing and that entrance being gone for good at some point, but I mean stuff like this is kinda has been in ES forever now where people find a secret thing to some amazing location under there house/inn.

ArchMikem

Gorak wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

People trying to justify a simple ladder. A ladder that has to be several hundred feet at least. I agree with OP, this is really, really lazy, even for a prologue quest.

The ladder just accesses the basement of the tavern. The entrance to Blackreach is in turn accessed from the basement - no ladders involved in that part.

Then what exactly is the actual entrance? A black hole in the wall that loading screens you right into the main cavern? Or something you have to traverse for a while.