The nord necromancers we saw during the reveal...

Noxavian

During the reveal when they talked about some nords breaking into a dungeon of some sort, they showed one of the normal mobs just casually resurrecting a warrior skeleton with nord armor.

I ask this one simple question. Why can this rando nord do this, but my Necromancer who can pull off one of the most masterful necromancy spells (bone colossus) not do this? Like, why can we not raise a melee warrior skeleton or zombie? The most basic of necromancy? Can we at least replace the Gravelord body-beam skill with another summon? For pete sakes it's CALLED Gravelord. The description of the skill line is also probably the most misleading thing I've ever seen. "Imbue the dead with Frost, Fire and Lightning to bring ruin upon your enemies. Raise relentless hordes of the undead and allow your fallen enemies to intensify your unyielding assault."

Idk, I guess we get beam abilities tho, so yay? Because that's what I think of when I imagine necromancer.


Really wish we could get some acknowledgement of how wack the Necromancer class is in terms of fantasy and theme. Literally they are throwing random necro npcs at us that can do the most basic of summoning, yet we can't. At least the class reps seem to understand the problem.

What does everyone else think?

ThePhantomThorn

Well from a fun perspective I’d love that. A skill that turns corpses into skelingtons or ghosties.
But, balance wise there would have to be only one corpse at a time.

Like: resurrect a corpse. The corpse deals x damage every second for 10 seconds.
Morphs could have a mag and stam with extra bonuses.

HatchetHaro

This has to do with balance, among other minor things. This is an MMO, which means anything and everything you do can affect other players.

Yes, this does undermine the signature Elder Scrolls power fantasy, but multiplayer balance has to take priority.

StrandedMonkey

i guess blastbones, spirit mender, and skeleton archer mean absolutely NOTHING to you

Noxavian

HatchetHaro wrote: »

This has to do with balance, among other minor things. This is an MMO, which means anything and everything you do can affect other players.

Yes, this does undermine the signature Elder Scrolls power fantasy, but multiplayer balance has to take priority.

Me raising 1 or 2 zombies/skeletons would not break the game.

Get real with yourself.

Noxavian

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Well from a fun perspective I’d love that. A skill that turns corpses into skelingtons or ghosties.
But, balance wise there would have to be only one corpse at a time.

Like: resurrect a corpse. The corpse deals x damage every second for 10 seconds.
Morphs could have a mag and stam with extra bonuses.

See, that's fine with me.

Noxavian

StrandedMonkey wrote: »

i guess blastbones, spirit mender, and skeleton archer mean absolutely NOTHING to you

Yeah, they don't. They aren't actual summons, lol. They are glorified dots without hitboxes and cant even be CCed.

So no, they are not summons. Not even temporary summons. They are dots with extra effects to appear as summons.

Michaelkeir

I have been saying this since Necromancers were announced. Why is there not a melee skeleton warrior. Most necromancers fight from range. Why not summon a melee minion to rush in swinging while you throw spells from afar.

It's common sense. We have a range minion, why not melee. Sadly, nothing can be done and I'm sure the devs aren't open to changing it. Maybe one day we'll get a monster set that allows us to have a chance to proc a melee skeletal pet for 30 secs or something.

Siohwenoeht

Noxavian wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

This has to do with balance, among other minor things. This is an MMO, which means anything and everything you do can affect other players.

Yes, this does undermine the signature Elder Scrolls power fantasy, but multiplayer balance has to take priority.

Me raising 1 or 2 zombies/skeletons would not break the game.

Get real with yourself.

Haven't you heard? Lore and established abilities from other tes titles have no place here any longer...

Noxavian

Siohwenoeht wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

This has to do with balance, among other minor things. This is an MMO, which means anything and everything you do can affect other players.

Yes, this does undermine the signature Elder Scrolls power fantasy, but multiplayer balance has to take priority.

Me raising 1 or 2 zombies/skeletons would not break the game.

Get real with yourself.

Haven't you heard? Lore and established abilities from other tes titles have no place here any longer...

The wack part is that the established abilities are in their own darn game....literally right there on screen.

Noxavian

Michaelkeir wrote: »

I have been saying this since Necromancers were announced. Why is there not a melee skeleton warrior. Most necromancers fight from range. Why not summon a melee minion to rush in swinging while you throw spells from afar.

It's common sense. We have a range minion, why not melee. Sadly, nothing can be done and I'm sure the devs aren't open to changing it. Maybe one day we'll get a monster set that allows us to have a chance to proc a melee skeletal pet for 30 secs or something.

This is what I've been thinking as well my dude.

I find it very strange that we're powerful enough to raise a skeletal mage, yet not strong enough to summon a zombie/skeleton.... hm.

Noxavian

ZonasArch wrote: »

StrandedMonkey wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Yeah, they don't. They aren't actual summons, lol. They are glorified dots without hitboxes and cant even be CCed.

So no, they are not summons. Not even temporary summons. They are dots with extra effects to appear as summons.

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Well from a fun perspective I’d love that. A skill that turns corpses into skelingtons or ghosties.
But, balance wise there would have to be only one corpse at a time.

Like: resurrect a corpse. The corpse deals x damage every second for 10 seconds.
Morphs could have a mag and stam with extra bonuses.

Noxavian wrote: »

See, that's fine with me.

Forum noise. It's just empty complaining for the sake of complaining. There's no logic or defined reason, anything goes if you can whine a bit.

I love involuntary ironic humor...

How am I empty complaining....?

Yeah, me complaining that my necro cant do the most basic of necromancy isn't valid at all.

ZonasArch

Noxavian wrote: »

ZonasArch wrote: »

StrandedMonkey wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

Yeah, they don't. They aren't actual summons, lol. They are glorified dots without hitboxes and cant even be CCed.

So no, they are not summons. Not even temporary summons. They are dots with extra effects to appear as summons.

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Well from a fun perspective I’d love that. A skill that turns corpses into skelingtons or ghosties.
But, balance wise there would have to be only one corpse at a time.

Like: resurrect a corpse. The corpse deals x damage every second for 10 seconds.
Morphs could have a mag and stam with extra bonuses.

Noxavian wrote: »

See, that's fine with me.

Forum noise. It's just empty complaining for the sake of complaining. There's no logic or defined reason, anything goes if you can whine a bit.

I love involuntary ironic humor...

How am I empty complaining....?

Yeah, me complaining that my necro cant do the most basic of necromancy isn't valid at all.

Note the post to which I'm replying. They are VERY clearly pointing out how you're "fine with it" it being a DOT that you SUMMON. They you go on to say that the three DOT SUMMONS we have aren't meaningful to you at all!

Do you need me to draw how incompatible those two statements are?

[snip] They are very very opposite, it's hard for me to comprehend how you can say our current summons don't count while saying they are something "you'd be fine with".

Enlighten me, as I am actually curious and extremely bored. (Also, I don't like the summons that much either, but just because of my particular play style. I think they are ok otherwise.)

[edited to remove political content]

Anhedonie

I think class designer has a lot to learn. Makes a warden with long winded, slow and very telegraphed attacks in a fast paced game. Then makes the same class again, but adds skeletons instead. And bugs. A lot of bugs. To the code, I mean. And spices it up with some pathing issues.
And upon release an assistant comes up to him with the poster: "Wanted: Sustain."

UrbanMonk

My lvl4 Nord necromancer is getting trained in riding lessons till Greymoor goes online and then wreck Havok...

Nerouyn

Noxavian wrote: »

Raise relentless hordes of the undead and allow your fallen enemies to intensify your unyielding assault."

Yeah.

Noxavian wrote: »

Literally they are throwing random necro npcs at us that can do the most basic of summoning, yet we can't.

They don't enter towns where guards go apeshit at the sight of necromancy. Which they must do, because lore.

I think the devs decided that denying necros a perma pet was the easiest way to deal with that. But I also think most players who'd be keen to play necros would expect and want perma pets.

D3N7157

all i see is skyrim cojuration roleplayer whining, tell me mate do you play this game in first person?

Edaphon

Noxavian wrote: »

What does everyone else think?

I think it would be a terrible idea to turn Necros into reskinned Pet Sorcs.

Just ask the devs for some undead skins for Sorcs, that would be much easier to implement and, more importantly for Zos, much easier to monetize which in turn makes it more likely to happen.

HatchetHaro

Noxavian wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

This has to do with balance, among other minor things. This is an MMO, which means anything and everything you do can affect other players.

Yes, this does undermine the signature Elder Scrolls power fantasy, but multiplayer balance has to take priority.

Me raising 1 or 2 zombies/skeletons would not break the game.

Get real with yourself.

You already can: Blastbones, Skeletal Mage/Archer, and Spirit Mender. That's 3 undead things you can raise to aid you in combat.

But if you want to "raise hordes of the undead", see my point above.

Get real with yourself.

ThePhantomThorn

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Noxavian wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

This has to do with balance, among other minor things. This is an MMO, which means anything and everything you do can affect other players.

Yes, this does undermine the signature Elder Scrolls power fantasy, but multiplayer balance has to take priority.

Me raising 1 or 2 zombies/skeletons would not break the game.

Get real with yourself.

You already can: Blastbones, Skeletal Mage/Archer, and Spirit Mender. That's 3 undead things you can raise to aid you in combat.

But if you want to "raise hordes of the undead", see my point above.

Get real with yourself.

Having one skill that reanimated a skelington warrior wouldn’t be gamebreaking. Seems fine to me.

Wifeaggro13

Noxavian wrote: »

During the reveal when they talked about some nords breaking into a dungeon of some sort, they showed one of the normal mobs just casually resurrecting a warrior skeleton with nord armor.

I ask this one simple question. Why can this rando nord do this, but my Necromancer who can pull off one of the most masterful necromancy spells (bone colossus) not do this? Like, why can we not raise a melee warrior skeleton or zombie? The most basic of necromancy? Can we at least replace the Gravelord body-beam skill with another summon? For pete sakes it's CALLED Gravelord. The description of the skill line is also probably the most misleading thing I've ever seen. "Imbue the dead with Frost, Fire and Lightning to bring ruin upon your enemies. Raise relentless hordes of the undead and allow your fallen enemies to intensify your unyielding assault."

Idk, I guess we get beam abilities tho, so yay? Because that's what I think of when I imagine necromancer.


Really wish we could get some acknowledgement of how wack the Necromancer class is in terms of fantasy and theme. Literally they are throwing random necro npcs at us that can do the most basic of summoning, yet we can't. At least the class reps seem to understand the problem.

What does everyone else think?

🤣🤣🤣you are correct . Necromancer is so poorly designed and implemented I didnt even bother leveling mine past 20

Waffennacht

Tbf it's not at all how I envisioned a necromancer class

Yamenstein

Yeah! They should make it so the Siphons still require a corpse but it raises another zombie/skeleton warrior/caster that does a bit of damage but you can siphon off them like the current skills do. If you move to far away from them then they fall apart !!!

Noxavian

Yamenstein wrote: »

Yeah! They should make it so the Siphons still require a corpse but it raises another zombie/skeleton warrior/caster that does a bit of damage but you can siphon off them like the current skills do. If you move to far away from them then they fall apart !!!

This would actually be a really unique twist to the siphons. I would be certainly down!

LukosCreyden

I am one of those people who actually LIKE the class skills we got for necro. It could have been super one-dimensional "summon skeleton, also summon skeleton, here is another skeleton, oh and a skeleton and here, this is a skill that summons the undead!" but we actually got an interesting range of abilities. Like the scythe. I love that thing. The tethers, too. They are unusual, not the first (or second, or third...) thing you think of when you say "Necromancer", but they did try and make the skill thematically appropriate.

However, a skeleton/wraith/zombie warrior that fights in melee? I could get behind that. Frankly, if it were my decision, I would replace drunkbones with another pseudo-summon like the archer/mage. Have them either spawn at the target's location, or float/dash/jump there and engage in melee. They could operate on the same timer system the other summons do, to keep away from the whole "pets" thing and maintain the "disposable pawn" theme necromancers typically have.

Those are just my thoughts in the matter, chances are, we will not see any significant changes to drunkbones any time soon.

ZOS_Ragnar

We have removed some rude and insulting comments from this thread. We ask that you keep your posts civil and respectful; this can go a long way, especially when involved in a heated debate. Please remember that everyone on these forums is a real person, like you, who is also here because they love The Elder Scrolls Online and want to talk about it.

Toanis

It's necro-mancer - a magic user who utilizes the dead. That can mean anything from throwing bones to divine the future, to raising an army of disposable undead. ESO does a good job at giving necromancers a versatile repertoire of dead related abilities and not only the one thing they're (in)famous for.

IMO, only a nutjob would keep the undead as pets once they're no longer useful. And if you have use for a standing army of undead, then you're the antagonist, and soon a band of heroes will follow the trail of bones and slay you.

Besides that, would it be more fitting if we could raise our slain opponents or bodies that just lie around for decoration instead of always the same skeleton? Sure, but how much help will that murdered civilian or that skamp you just slew be against the boss? And how would it work in PVP?

If you want to raise random dead and have them follow you around, there also needs to be some limitation, like a permanent magicka-cost dependent on the undead's power. And servers that have problems with people blocking too often, most likely won't like it when they have to keep track of ragtag bands of undead following thousands of necromancers.

Noxavian

Toanis wrote: »

It's necro-mancer - a magic user who utilizes the dead. That can mean anything from throwing bones to divine the future, to raising an army of disposable undead. ESO does a good job at giving necromancers a versatile repertoire of dead related abilities and not only the one thing they're (in)famous for.

IMO, only a nutjob would keep the undead as pets once they're no longer useful. And if you have use for a standing army of undead, then you're the antagonist, and soon a band of heroes will follow the trail of bones and slay you.

Besides that, would it be more fitting if we could raise our slain opponents or bodies that just lie around for decoration instead of always the same skeleton? Sure, but how much help will that murdered civilian or that skamp you just slew be against the boss? And how would it work in PVP?

If you want to raise random dead and have them follow you around, there also needs to be some limitation, like a permanent magicka-cost dependent on the undead's power. And servers that have problems with people blocking too often, most likely won't like it when they have to keep track of ragtag bands of undead following thousands of necromancers.

Not asking for them to get permanent undead that follow you around, I literally do not mention this at all.

Im literally asking for them to be able to raise a melee summons or two. That is it.

And as for the raising-from-corpse question for bosses, you seemingly forget that Necromancer itself has some pretty good corpse generation

Noxavian

LukosCreyden wrote: »

I am one of those people who actually LIKE the class skills we got for necro. It could have been super one-dimensional "summon skeleton, also summon skeleton, here is another skeleton, oh and a skeleton and here, this is a skill that summons the undead!" but we actually got an interesting range of abilities. Like the scythe. I love that thing. The tethers, too. They are unusual, not the first (or second, or third...) thing you think of when you say "Necromancer", but they did try and make the skill thematically appropriate.

However, a skeleton/wraith/zombie warrior that fights in melee? I could get behind that. Frankly, if it were my decision, I would replace drunkbones with another pseudo-summon like the archer/mage. Have them either spawn at the target's location, or float/dash/jump there and engage in melee. They could operate on the same timer system the other summons do, to keep away from the whole "pets" thing and maintain the "disposable pawn" theme necromancers typically have.

Those are just my thoughts in the matter, chances are, we will not see any significant changes to drunkbones any time soon.

See, I get what you're saying, but as someone else suggested in this thread, they could of easily kept their unique take on Necromancer as well as giving us the undead-summoning part. For example, with the siphons, why not let them raise the corpse they're siphoning from to fight for you while you slowly siphon away it's energy?

And I can very much agree with the blastbones thing. Personally, I never understood the point of a suicidal skeleton. Why wait for a delayed blast when I could just heavy attack or use another ability that does more dmg instantly? Also if they did swap out blastbones with a melee summons, the revive ult that summons 3 blastbones would then summon 3 warriors which IMO would fix a big complaint a lot of people have. We could have a temporary little army and that would be cool, right?

Perashim

Honestly, I think Blastbones should just be replaced with a temporary melee zombie/skeleton (depending on morphs) considering how buggy blastbones are.

On top of that, it should also affect the "Animate Blastbones" ultimate, as the blastbones there are just as buggy, and instead raise a Melee skeleton, Skeleton Mage/Archer, and a Spirit Mender (In that order depending on the number of corpses in the area).

Kahnak

I'm curious as to why you would define the temporary ranged skeleton as a temporary dot, but a temporary melee skeleton is not also a temporary dot?