A Change to Loot Crate Mounts

Mr_Walker

I don't like bears, they make me feel ill.

Open crown crate... yep.

Elderscrollian

Royaji wrote: »

See, we agree that this only proves that duplicate items can be converted into gems. Nothing about the ones you acquire for the first time.

And again it proves the tech exists on the backend for them to easily make it so you could convert anything into gems first time round IF they wanted, but that has ZERO to do with what I have been suggesting anyway, this fixation on gems conversion has all been yours lol
We simply do not need MORE things to be convertible into gems to do what I have been suggesting,

https://www.zenimaxonline.com/careers

And the relevance of this is what exactly? No marketing jobs on there not that I need one I already have a full time job I don't need nor want another lol

All I want is for loots crates to suck less in the games I play for fun and enjoyment by at least giving a mount type I want on the lucky occasions where I get one from a loot crate. I'm sure even you can follow that.. hopefully.

JKorr

Elderscrollian wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

See, we agree that this only proves that duplicate items can be converted into gems. Nothing about the ones you acquire for the first time.

And again it proves the tech exists on the backend for them to easily make it so you could convert anything into gems first time round IF they wanted, but that has ZERO to do with what I have been suggesting anyway, this fixation on gems conversion has all been yours lol
We simply do not need MORE things to be convertible into gems to do what I have been suggesting,

https://www.zenimaxonline.com/careers

And the relevance of this is what exactly? No marketing jobs on there not that I need one I already have a full time job I don't need nor want another lol

All I want is for loots crates to suck less in the games I play for fun and enjoyment by at least giving a mount type I want on the lucky occasions where I get one from a loot crate. I'm sure even you can follow that.. hopefully.

Yep. So all you need to do is buy more crates.

The marketing department has zero interest in letting you get the specific item you want immediately. The more you spend to get the specific item you want, the better. I'm sure even you can follow that. Maybe. Doubt it though because you keep trying to insist the exact opposite. They do not want to make it easy to get the specific item you want because then you won't buy more crates.

Elderscrollian

JKorr wrote: »

Yep. So all you need to do is buy more crates.

And yet they do not

The marketing department has zero interest in letting you get the specific item you want immediately. The more you spend to get the specific item you want, the better. I'm sure even you can follow that. Maybe. Doubt it though because you keep trying to insist the exact opposite. They do not want to make it easy to get the specific item you want because then you won't buy more crates.

Prove it?

With a mentality like that you will be taken advantage of your entire life because you do not rock the boat or suggest otherwise and assume being taken advantage of is exactly how things are meant to be and your so enamored with thenotion you never even think to question it.
You like to imply you have inside knowledge of the what and the how the Marketing Department works despite showing a near negligible understanding of it and ZERO understanding of the other side of the marketing equation. Two little words my friends "Consumer Power".

Until you understand the meaning of those words nothing will ever be any different for you and those like you.

Jayne_Doe

Elderscrollian wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Except your idea, here, impacts crown crate revenue ... which is much more paramount to ZOS than other ideas that simply change a game mechanic.

It reduces crown crate revenue by introducing a token to trade same-tier crate rewards.

I'm not defending ZOS, here.

However, any forum-goer that can do basic math knows the full impression of this idea.

I've already been over this, which anyone with a basic understanding of marketing will be able to follow.

It does not affect revenue at all, indeed if anything it incentivises crates by making them MORE appealing than they are now thereby creating the potential for more revenue by making them something people are MORE likely to want to spend money on not less, which is what restricted choice does. I.e hampers potential sales.

The point players are trying to make is that this does cut into the point/profit of the crates, which is to get players to spend more money to get what they want. Sure, some players get lucky and get what they want right away and stop, while the unlucky players will spend more regardless of this token system. But, the token system will guarantee that more players will overall spend less, as they'll stop once they get any apex and convert it to what they want.

Will it get players who don't gamble on crates to start gambling? Maybe...certainly not me. No amount of tokens in a gambling system will get me to waste money. Thus, ZOS will stick with what will get players who are already willing to gamble to continue to do so until they either get what they want, or decide enough is enough. I can see this benefitting players who set a specific budget or just use their monthly crowns and don't care what they get. But, I think you're overestimating the incentive that this might have. It's not going to get non-crate buyers to suddenly start buying crates. And it won't get the players that spend until they get what they want to spend more - they'll be spending less.

Elderscrollian

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

The point players are trying to make is that this does cut into the point/profit of the crates, which is to get players to spend more money to get what they want. Sure, some players get lucky and get what they want right away and stop, while the unlucky players will spend more regardless of this token system. But, the token system will guarantee that more players will overall spend less, as they'll stop once they get any apex and convert it to what they want.

Will it get players who don't gamble on crates to start gambling? Maybe...certainly not me. No amount of tokens in a gambling system will get me to waste money. Thus, ZOS will stick with what will get players who are already willing to gamble to continue to do so until they either get what they want, or decide enough is enough. I can see this benefitting players who set a specific budget or just use their monthly crowns and don't care what they get. But, I think you're overestimating the incentive that this might have. It's not going to get non-crate buyers to suddenly start buying crates. And it won't get the players that spend until they get what they want to spend more - they'll be spending less.

I am well aware of what some players here are saying, but what you all seem to be missing is that it works upon a posit that has an awful LOT of assumptions about peoples spending habits in regards to loot crates that are actually in COMPLETE contradiction to what people say happens with regard to their spending on loot crates.

A few whales may well fall into the category you speak of, but by and large most people do not keep spending to get what they want because they do not have the financial option to do so. Most people spend a set amount on loot crates and if they do not get what they want...that's it until the next time they do. Gems are put aside and saved until eventually enough are accumulated to get a desired radiant sure, but by the the kind of mount irrespective of the type may and most likely is no longer available.

Now even if we assume people saying how they spend on loot crates are in fact lying.. (which is unlikely) arguing in favour of a system that works AGAINST you as the consumer instead of one which benefits both is utterly unproductive for ALL concerned.

As to the amount a token system would encourage them to buy well lets look at it, right now you have less than 1% chance of getting a radiant or thereabouts. The exacts percents aren't known but it is almost certainly within that range if not less. You could literally spend hundreds even thousands of dollars and not get one. Or you could be lucky and get one on the first crate.. most folks aren't that lucky.

So you see a mount you want you spend your money you get your crates...you get super lucky and get a mount, sadly its not the horse you wanted instead its the bear version.. the radiant you spent countless $$$ sits in your collections unused forever more and you are gutted, meaning you are less likely to spend money on loot crates the next time round. Once bitten twice shy, as the saying goes.

Now lets assume you do not get the mount (the likely outcome in terms of percentages), then what? Your assumption is people keep spending until they do, whereas players actually say they do not. Instead they do what I made note of above, they wait until they can buy more and hopefully accumulate enough gems to get the mount they want before the crate goes out of circulation and there is no guaruntee of that indeed chances are likely the loot crate will end before you do because we all cannot make it rain money for convenience sake.

With the token system the first problem is no longer a problem, in the second option you already have the mount type you wanted, happiness ensues and you are able to spend your gems on other things and therefore benefit more from a crates contents or alternatively save them for the next time and put them toward getting a radiant from the next crate to release.

Under this system at no point are you left feeling your purchase was wasted and put off buying more crates in the future.. simple incentivised sales at its best. They win as more people are happy buying crates, we win as more people are happy with what they are getting FROM crates.. happiness all round, what a world!

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar

TelvanniWizard

@ZOS_GinaBruno do you see all the evil you guys are?

MEBengalsFan2001

Elderscrollian wrote: »

I think its safe to say most gamers despise lockboxes but they exist for a reason especially in F2P games, and the main appeal of any lootbox is undoubtedly the mounts. Now chances of getting one of those are pretty remote but even on the fortunate occurrence that we DO get one we then get hit by the horrible one in five RNG as to what base mount type it is.

As such I would like to suggest a change that could hopefully not only address that issue but maybe make lootboxes a little more appealing in the process.

My suggestion is this. Instead of receiving a random mount from the lootbox we receive a "Mount Exchange Token", this could then be taken to either the Impressario or better yet any stable and exchanged for the mount type of your preference. So say you get from the currently available loot crate of the time a Frost Atronach Wolf and you wanted the Frost Atronach Horse you can go take the exchange token to the vendor and exchange your wolf (one time only) for the horse version of that mount.

There would be limitations, in that the exchange tokens cannot be kept they are only valid during that loot crates lifespan and vanish once that loot crate ends so if you want to use it you have that window of opportunity to do so. So you could not use the mount exchange token from one crate and use it to get the mount of the following loot crate for example, it would ONLY work with the loot crate mounts it came from.

In this way should someone be fortunate enough to get a lootbox mount they can AT LEAST get the type of mount they wanted, and this in turn would help to make the prospect of get lootcrate to get a mount a little more appealing.

I hope the devs and community find some merit in this suggestion.

This is what the crown gems do to an extent.

Elderscrollian

MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »

This is what the crown gems do to an extent.

I've already covered why gems do not solve the issue being discussed. Gems only provide an opportunity to fix the issue via a SECOND mount and only via further purchases which are likely out of the scope and finances of those concerned within the time frame provided.

The issue needs to be fixed so it can be resolved for the FIRST mount, and additional purchases should be optional.

JKorr

Elderscrollian wrote: »

JKorr wrote: »

Yep. So all you need to do is buy more crates.

And yet they do not

The marketing department has zero interest in letting you get the specific item you want immediately. The more you spend to get the specific item you want, the better. I'm sure even you can follow that. Maybe. Doubt it though because you keep trying to insist the exact opposite. They do not want to make it easy to get the specific item you want because then you won't buy more crates.

Prove it?

With a mentality like that you will be taken advantage of your entire life because you do not rock the boat or suggest otherwise and assume being taken advantage of is exactly how things are meant to be and your so enamored with thenotion you never even think to question it.
You like to imply you have inside knowledge of the what and the how the Marketing Department works despite showing a near negligible understanding of it and ZERO understanding of the other side of the marketing equation. Two little words my friends "Consumer Power".

Until you understand the meaning of those words nothing will ever be any different for you and those like you.

"Consumer power"..:snicker:..whatever you say. Here are a few threads you might have missed. It is a limited example, yes, however I get the impression that they have no reason to want to change the way things currently works, because "it makes them money".

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/365819/im-disappointed-zos-rare-mounts/p1

I have spent over 1k usd on crown crates trying so hard to get that rare horse mount but time after time failed attempt after failure. I have every item and all the mounts but not the rare one I wanted so bad.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/374682/the-tale-of-1000-crates-and-the-missing-plague-husk-horse/p1

[1,130ish crates purchased] Anyway, I had the money and my life-commitments were all taken care of (home, family, food and shelter), so I decided to go full Moby *** and grab that elusive "rare" apex mount: the Plague Husk Horse. Needless to say, I acquired every single item on the list but that mount.

And https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/373783/for-those-of-you-who-feel-the-drop-rate-is-bad-with-crown-crates-225-crown-crates-later/p1

I have a ton of crowns to waste because I load up on them every time they are on sale and there is rarely anything I ever want to buy from the crown store.

I just opened 225 crown crates and have not gotten 1 mount yet lol. Yes, that is 75,000 crowns I just spent.

In the past I have gotten most of the mounts from a lot less crates. This time it is not even close with how bad the drop rate is for me.

Now, how much of that cash would the company have gotten, if they gave tokens/pick the one you want and the buyer could stop buying because they got what they wanted. "Consumer power" all you want, but until the current business model starts to be less than profitable, they really have no reason to listen to "consumer power".

winterscrolls229prerb18_ESO

Well after being negatively shocked after my one go at 15 crates, i turned off the option at getting them and is much happier for it.

Its the people who know all these things but still do it anyway are what zos are preying on (and what makes them predatory).

It makes sense from their perspective, for anyone that walks into their trap they have to spring it as hard as possible. The entire intent of the gambling system isn't to provide users with a pleasant mount acquisition experience, sadly.

Raideen

"A good deal is when it's good for you, and me." - Sales 101
"The house always wins" - Gambling

This is the issue with crown crates. They are not a good deal, their RNG coded intentionally to ensure they reap maximum profit at the expense of it being a good deal for consumers. This action drives consumers off.

It would seem to me that ESO is built around the business model of scaring off their invested customers and pray on new blood as prey.

thegreatme

Honestly the issue with ZoS isn't even the fact that you won't buy more crates if you didn't get what you want, thus giving them more money.

Which became startlingly clear when I messaged support about getting a retired Crown Gem Exclusive I wasn't able to get when it was available for a "limited time" because of an IRL emergency keeping me from the game at the time.

Even though I dangled "Hey I'll buy a LOOOOT of crates right now if I can get my 'dream mount' for the gems from it", they weren't interested, no matter the reason why I couldn't get it when it was out.

It seems to be less about whether you'll throw money at them and more about pushing a fabricated culture of "exclusivity" around what you buy, which I'm sure the Whales who throw thousands at this game eat up like candy.

I'm guessing my money was no good because they already got plenty off of the Whales to not worry about whether I'd be throwing more into their pockets.