A Change to Loot Crate Mounts

Elderscrollian

I think its safe to say most gamers despise lockboxes but they exist for a reason especially in F2P games, and the main appeal of any lootbox is undoubtedly the mounts. Now chances of getting one of those are pretty remote but even on the fortunate occurrence that we DO get one we then get hit by the horrible one in five RNG as to what base mount type it is.

As such I would like to suggest a change that could hopefully not only address that issue but maybe make lootboxes a little more appealing in the process.

My suggestion is this. Instead of receiving a random mount from the lootbox we receive a "Mount Exchange Token", this could then be taken to either the Impressario or better yet any stable and exchanged for the mount type of your preference. So say you get from the currently available loot crate of the time a Frost Atronach Wolf and you wanted the Frost Atronach Horse you can go take the exchange token to the vendor and exchange your wolf (one time only) for the horse version of that mount.

There would be limitations, in that the exchange tokens cannot be kept they are only valid during that loot crates lifespan and vanish once that loot crate ends so if you want to use it you have that window of opportunity to do so. So you could not use the mount exchange token from one crate and use it to get the mount of the following loot crate for example, it would ONLY work with the loot crate mounts it came from.

In this way should someone be fortunate enough to get a lootbox mount they can AT LEAST get the type of mount they wanted, and this in turn would help to make the prospect of get lootcrate to get a mount a little more appealing.

I hope the devs and community find some merit in this suggestion.

Acrolas

The Resplendent Sweetroll was added in for Season 3 (Dwarven) to offer reward flexibility across all tiers except Radiant Apex. If you get one of those Apex rewards, you have 400 gems to spend as you please.

I wouldn't be opposed to having other flex rewards for the other tiers (items redeemable for 16, 40, or 100 gems). But a decision to allow trading at one tier is likely not going to happen unless its decided to do it for every tier.

Taleof2Cities

Acrolas wrote: »

I wouldn't be opposed to having other flex rewards for the other tiers (items redeemable for 16, 40, or 100 gems). But a decision to allow trading at one tier is likely not going to happen unless its decided to do it for every tier.

^This.^

I am always amazed at some of the schemes players come up with to improve their RNG chances with lootboxes ... when at the end of the day they are still lootboxes.

Elderscrollian

Acrolas wrote: »

The Resplendent Sweetroll was added in for Season 3 (Dwarven) to offer reward flexibility across all tiers except Radiant Apex. If you get one of those Apex rewards, you have 400 gems to spend as you please.

I wouldn't be opposed to having other flex rewards for the other tiers (items redeemable for 16, 40, or 100 gems). But a decision to allow trading at one tier is likely not going to happen unless its decided to do it for every tier.

I am afraid the Resplendant Sweet roll does NOT address the issue I speak of at all. Because it is itself as rare as a lockbox mount, so the chances of getting both in order to ensure you can have the relevant mount type you wanted are BEYOND remote.

I am talking about a system that makes it easy to change the mount you get from 1 type to another relatively easily within limits one time during a single loot boxes run. Hoping to obtain another super rare item in order to do that is absolutely contradictory.

Also all mounts of a type in a loot crate using the example i gave for example i.e all Frost Atronach mounts are not of different tiers, they are all the same. A frost Atronach horse is the same as a Frost Atronach Guar or camel etc.. so simply adding a simple system to allow you to exchange one mount of that type for another mount of that type should not affect anything other than player happiness

Having other items that are redeemable for gems is irrelevant as EVERYTHING you get from a loot crate can be converted to gems. But the point is not to have to buy ANOTHER mount of the type, the point is to exchange the mount type you have for the species of "that" mount you WANT thereby ensuring the super rare mount you got is not wasted and never used because it is a type you dont see or want your character to use (and by type i am referring to horse, guar, camel, bear, wolf etc..).

Elderscrollian

Its just a simple fix for an existing and incredibly frustrating problem.

Darkstorne

No need to make the token vanish. That's asking for problems from confused players. Just make sure each token is tied to a specific crate season.

Still won't happen though because ZOS love their arbitrary nonsense. Event Tickets should have worked as simple purchases too: 20 tickets for a nascent indrik, or 40 for a special indrik. Instead, it's 5 tickets for a feather, of which you need one of each confusingly named feather, then combine all the feathers, then 5 tickets for a berry, of which you need four different confusingly named berries, but all from the same confusing set or you're wasting tickets (!!!), then combine those four berries provided you've already combined four feathers, and you should have the mount you wanted so long as you didn't **** up along the way.

It's the ZOS way to make things as arduous as possible...

tomofhyrule

Not gonna happen, but it would be nice.

I've got terrible luck with crates. In all of them I've opened (way more than I care to admit), I've never gotten a Radiant mount, and I've only gotten two or three of the apexes...and all of them were not the ones I wanted. I favor horse and wolf mounts, but the bears and senches look nice too, but I've only ever gotten guars and a camel without having to buy my favorites with gems.

Luckily most seasons I don't really care about the mounts much, but I feel the crates have also gotten worse with the RNG lately where most of the crates don't even give me something above blue rarity...and they're packed full of duped tattoos.

akdave0

Here it is when it comes to radiant apex mounts. Forget all hope unless you are prepared to spend $500-$1000.
That's it, for x-mas I only asked for xbox gift cards. Scalecaller crates just returned, spent $600 and only got two radiants.
I started a thread a while back calling for the direct purchase of these type mounts either with gems or crowns, the response from the community was tepid. A home can cost as much as 18,000 crowns, why not put a price on radiant mounts that is fair. We get the mount, ZOS gets paid. Win/Win.

Elderscrollian

akdave0 wrote: »

Here it is when it comes to radiant apex mounts. Forget all hope unless you are prepared to spend $500-$1000.
That's it, for x-mas I only asked for xbox gift cards. Scalecaller crates just returned, spent $600 and only got two radiants.
I started a thread a while back calling for the direct purchase of these type mounts either with gems or crowns, the response from the community was tepid. A home can cost as much as 18,000 crowns, why not put a price on radiant mounts that is fair. We get the mount, ZOS gets paid. Win/Win.

I don't have an issue with the randomness of obtaining a mount or them being a rare lockbox reward, and we already can buy the mounts with gems if you have enough already. My issue is with getting the "type" of mount we want (i.e horse, bear etc..) when we DO get one, rather than a random type.

To get such a rare thing only to have it ruined by RNG takes the joy out of the achievement.

It would be nice if some lockbox rare was available for purchase in the crown store each month (deal of the month type thing) though I must admit, but that is as noted a separate issue to what I am suggesting in this thread and the issue it seeks to address.

Tigerseye

Acrolas wrote: »

The Resplendent Sweetroll was added in for Season 3 (Dwarven) to offer reward flexibility across all tiers except Radiant Apex. If you get one of those Apex rewards, you have 400 gems to spend as you please.

Problem with that is I prefer the Sweetroll to most of the mounts.

Tigerseye

akdave0 wrote: »

Here it is when it comes to radiant apex mounts. Forget all hope unless you are prepared to spend $500-$1000.
That's it, for x-mas I only asked for xbox gift cards. Scalecaller crates just returned, spent $600 and only got two radiants.
I started a thread a while back calling for the direct purchase of these type mounts either with gems or crowns, the response from the community was tepid. A home can cost as much as 18,000 crowns, why not put a price on radiant mounts that is fair. We get the mount, ZOS gets paid. Win/Win.

I wouldn't let the fact that you got a tepid response put you off.

A lot of people on here have called themselves trolls, in polls and a lot of others (although, there may also be an overlap!) have decided to punish ZOS for their business practices (understandable) and boycott Crates altogether.

Some of the latter group are annoyed with anyone who buys Crates/gives ZOS money, at all.

So, they will be luke warm about anything to do with Crates, even if it's a good idea; especially if it comes from someone who has bought a lot of them.

...and regarding the former group - trolls will be trolls.

Minyassa

I wish. I have SO many !@#$ing bears, I loathe bears, I would trade them in for ANY other creature in a heartbeat.

Elderscrollian

Minyassa wrote: »

I wish. I have SO many !@#$ing bears, I loathe bears, I would trade them in for ANY other creature in a heartbeat.

Its been all Guars and Camels for me lol

redspecter23

Lootboxes are designed around RNG. Any method of lessening that RNG directly impacts the entire reason that they exist. They are intended to have a specific chance of getting the chase items. ZOS has their best math experts hard at work determining exactly what that should be. I can't see them lowering those odds by making all mounts into wild cards any time soon.

Taleof2Cities

redspecter23 wrote: »

Lootboxes are designed around RNG. Any method of lessening that RNG directly impacts the entire reason that they exist. They are intended to have a specific chance of getting the chase items. ZOS has their best math experts hard at work determining exactly what that should be. I can't see them lowering those odds by making all mounts into wild cards any time soon.

I know right?

This is exactly the kind of thread the Revenue Team at ZOS throws darts at on a Friday afternoon ...

Elderscrollian

redspecter23 wrote: »

Lootboxes are designed around RNG. Any method of lessening that RNG directly impacts the entire reason that they exist. They are intended to have a specific chance of getting the chase items. ZOS has their best math experts hard at work determining exactly what that should be. I can't see them lowering those odds by making all mounts into wild cards any time soon.

Nothing I have suggested affects the RNG, mounts would still be super rare. The only thing it would change is ensuring IF you do get lucky enough to get one you at least get the type of that mount you want.

The important RNG of getting a mount remains intact.

Royaji

Elderscrollian wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Lootboxes are designed around RNG. Any method of lessening that RNG directly impacts the entire reason that they exist. They are intended to have a specific chance of getting the chase items. ZOS has their best math experts hard at work determining exactly what that should be. I can't see them lowering those odds by making all mounts into wild cards any time soon.

Nothing I have suggested affects the RNG, mounts would still be super rare. The only thing it would change is ensuring IF you do get lucky enough to get one you at least get the type of that mount you want.

The important RNG of getting a mount remains intact.

You are still missing the point. The idea is that if you get unlucky and get a "wrong" mount you will go and buy more crates to get the mount you like.

Your idea does interfere with RNG. Actually, it completely removes one whole layer of RNG from the equation.

Elderscrollian

Royaji wrote: »

Elderscrollian wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Lootboxes are designed around RNG. Any method of lessening that RNG directly impacts the entire reason that they exist. They are intended to have a specific chance of getting the chase items. ZOS has their best math experts hard at work determining exactly what that should be. I can't see them lowering those odds by making all mounts into wild cards any time soon.

Nothing I have suggested affects the RNG, mounts would still be super rare. The only thing it would change is ensuring IF you do get lucky enough to get one you at least get the type of that mount you want.

The important RNG of getting a mount remains intact.

You are still missing the point. The idea is that if you get unlucky and get a "wrong" mount you will go and buy more crates to get the mount you like.

Your idea does interfere with RNG. Actually, it completely removes one whole layer of RNG from the equation.

I'm not missing the point at all. How many people do you think actually DO just keep buying crates until they get the right mount? Seriously. F2P games rely on a relatively SMALL number of whales spending lots of money, while the rest of players spend as little or nothing as possible.

So someone gets a few crates gets super lucky, gets a mount and then has that joy ruined because they get some randomly determined TPYE of mount rather than the type they want. It doesn't hurt them to put a fix for that in, as I said it benefits them because KNOWING you can get the type you want is going to encourage people to buy more crates because its gives them a modicum of control on the outcome, without which they likely just won't bother with the purchase anyway.

I mean seriously I am REALLY starting to get concerned about the state of the ESO community you guys are super pessimistic "why bother", "they don't care", "nothing will change",..yada yada yada.. seriously you guys do realise by asking for NOTHING you get NOTHING right? If enough people get behind an idea they will take notice. If you all just pi** on every idea that might benefit you because you expect them to do nothing with it however good it may be, you get nothing.

you guys really need to start thinking in a way that might benefit you rather than continue to deny you the things you want and hope for in ESO... a little positivity goes a long way.

Royaji

Elderscrollian wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

Elderscrollian wrote: »

redspecter23 wrote: »

Lootboxes are designed around RNG. Any method of lessening that RNG directly impacts the entire reason that they exist. They are intended to have a specific chance of getting the chase items. ZOS has their best math experts hard at work determining exactly what that should be. I can't see them lowering those odds by making all mounts into wild cards any time soon.

Nothing I have suggested affects the RNG, mounts would still be super rare. The only thing it would change is ensuring IF you do get lucky enough to get one you at least get the type of that mount you want.

The important RNG of getting a mount remains intact.

You are still missing the point. The idea is that if you get unlucky and get a "wrong" mount you will go and buy more crates to get the mount you like.

Your idea does interfere with RNG. Actually, it completely removes one whole layer of RNG from the equation.

I'm not missing the point at all. How many people do you think actually DO just keep buying crates until they get the right mount? Seriously. F2P games rely on a relatively SMALL number of whales spending lots of money, while the rest of players spend as little or nothing as possible.

So someone gets a few crates gets super lucky, gets a mount and then has that joy ruined because they get some randomly determined TPYE of mount rather than the type they want. It doesn't hurt them to put a fix for that in, as I said it benefits them because KNOWING you can get the type you want is going to encourage people to buy more crates because its gives them a modicum of control on the outcome, without which they likely just won't bother with the purchase anyway.

I mean seriously I am REALLY starting to get concerned about the state of the ESO community you guys are super pessimistic "why bother", "they don't care", "nothing will change",..yada yada yada.. seriously you guys do realise by asking for NOTHING you get NOTHING right? If enough people get behind an idea they will take notice. If you all just pi** on every idea that might benefit you because you expect them to do nothing with it however good it may be, you get nothing.

you guys really need to start thinking in a way that might benefit you rather than continue to deny you the things you want and hope for in ESO... a little positivity goes a long way.

Ah, when they just come to the forums they are always so pure and naive.

I wish I could remember the times when I've felt like that.

Brrrofski

It isn't a problem.

Not to ZOS anyway. If you want the wolf, but get the horse, they want you to buy more until you get the wolf.

Which I imagine a LOT of people do.

Elderscrollian

Royaji wrote: »

Ah, when they just come to the forums they are always so pure and naive.

I wish I could remember the times when I've felt like that.

Nice in theory my dude, excpet I have been here in this version of the forums since 2014 which is you know... YEARS longer than you

Elderscrollian

Brrrofski wrote: »

It isn't a problem.

Not to ZOS anyway. If you want the wolf, but get the horse, they want you to buy more until you get the wolf.

Which I imagine a LOT of people do.

DO they though? I highly doubt it.

Taleof2Cities

Elderscrollian wrote: »

If you all just pi** on every idea that might benefit you because you expect them to do nothing with it however good it may be, you get nothing.

you guys really need to start thinking in a way that might benefit you rather than continue to deny you the things you want and hope for in ESO... a little positivity goes a long way.

Except your idea, here, impacts crown crate revenue ... which is much more paramount to ZOS than other ideas that simply change a game mechanic.

It reduces crown crate revenue by introducing a token to trade same-tier crate rewards.

I'm not defending ZOS, here.

However, any forum-goer that can do basic math knows the full impression of this idea.

Elderscrollian

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Except your idea, here, impacts crown crate revenue ... which is much more paramount to ZOS than other ideas that simply change a game mechanic.

It reduces crown crate revenue by introducing a token to trade same-tier crate rewards.

I'm not defending ZOS, here.

However, any forum-goer that can do basic math knows the full impression of this idea.

I've already been over this, which anyone with a basic understanding of marketing will be able to follow.

It does not affect revenue at all, indeed if anything it incentivises crates by making them MORE appealing than they are now thereby creating the potential for more revenue by making them something people are MORE likely to want to spend money on not less, which is what restricted choice does. I.e hampers potential sales.

Kittytravel

Elderscrollian wrote: »

As such I would like to suggest a change that could hopefully not only address that issue but maybe make lootboxes a little more appealing in the process.

Here's a better change.
Stop locking rewards to only specific cards.
Just make every card have the same chance to grant every reward with a chance at a bonus card for funsies.
Honestly is the entire reason I refuse to buy crates because the chances are already so screwed with it's even worse than traditional lootboxes.

Tigerseye

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Elderscrollian wrote: »

If you all just pi** on every idea that might benefit you because you expect them to do nothing with it however good it may be, you get nothing.

you guys really need to start thinking in a way that might benefit you rather than continue to deny you the things you want and hope for in ESO... a little positivity goes a long way.

Except your idea, here, impacts crown crate revenue ... which is much more paramount to ZOS than other ideas that simply change a game mechanic.

It reduces crown crate revenue by introducing a token to trade same-tier crate rewards.

I'm not defending ZOS, here.

However, any forum-goer that can do basic math knows the full impression of this idea.

But how do we know whether it does, or not?

Obviously, in theory it does, all things being equal.

But, how do we know how many people are put off going for a radiance apex (or even an apex) mount, entirely, as even if they get one, they have no control over which they get?

If it is the vast majority of people (which I suspect it is, especially with radiants) surely it's unlikely that a few super-whales will make up for that?

JKorr

Elderscrollian wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

The Resplendent Sweetroll was added in for Season 3 (Dwarven) to offer reward flexibility across all tiers except Radiant Apex. If you get one of those Apex rewards, you have 400 gems to spend as you please.

I wouldn't be opposed to having other flex rewards for the other tiers (items redeemable for 16, 40, or 100 gems). But a decision to allow trading at one tier is likely not going to happen unless its decided to do it for every tier.

I am afraid the Resplendant Sweet roll does NOT address the issue I speak of at all. Because it is itself as rare as a lockbox mount, so the chances of getting both in order to ensure you can have the relevant mount type you wanted are BEYOND remote.

I am talking about a system that makes it easy to change the mount you get from 1 type to another relatively easily within limits one time during a single loot boxes run. Hoping to obtain another super rare item in order to do that is absolutely contradictory.

Also all mounts of a type in a loot crate using the example i gave for example i.e all Frost Atronach mounts are not of different tiers, they are all the same. A frost Atronach horse is the same as a Frost Atronach Guar or camel etc.. so simply adding a simple system to allow you to exchange one mount of that type for another mount of that type should not affect anything other than player happiness

Having other items that are redeemable for gems is irrelevant as EVERYTHING you get from a loot crate can be converted to gems. But the point is not to have to buy ANOTHER mount of the type, the point is to exchange the mount type you have for the species of "that" mount you WANT thereby ensuring the super rare mount you got is not wasted and never used because it is a type you dont see or want your character to use (and by type i am referring to horse, guar, camel, bear, wolf etc..).

No, not everything can be converted. Try trading back that hat you will never use; or that tattoo you didn't want. Anything that is a costume/wearable can't be traded. Only items that are "consumables".

If they would allow people to get the mount they want via a token would totally break the whole "buy more crates" idea the marketing department came up with. Know the radiant apex mounts? The ones you can't buy with gems? Yeah. Those showed up after people posted the finally got enough gems to buy the mount they really wanted, so they wouldn't have to buy more crates until another item they really wanted showed up. And it worked; there have been threads from people who spent thousands of dollars trying to get one, and still didn't.

Elderscrollian

JKorr wrote: »

No, not everything can be converted. Try trading back that hat you will never use; or that tattoo you didn't want. Anything that is a costume/wearable can't be traded. Only items that are "consumables".

Cosmetics etc.. are not convertible into gems per se, but the system for them to be exists as what do you think happens when you get duplicates? voila..

If they would allow people to get the mount they want via a token would totally break the whole "buy more crates" idea the marketing department came up with. Know the radiant apex mounts? The ones you can't buy with gems? Yeah. Those showed up after people posted the finally got enough gems to buy the mount they really wanted, so they wouldn't have to buy more crates until another item they really wanted showed up. And it worked; there have been threads from people who spent thousands of dollars trying to get one, and still didn't.

It doesn't break that idea at all, jeez some of you guys are melodramatic. I've already explained multiple items how this changes actually INCENTIVISES the purchases of crates.
Having a system whereby the want people to buy more and more crates KNOWING full well all you are going to get is duplicates and thing sot turn into gems in order to buy ANOTHER mount is a TERRIBLE system. For one thing it doesn't work for the majority only a very very small minority because "most" folks aren't that wealthy or that dumb. Secondly it doesn't solve the issue I spoke of in my OP, thirdly with that system they may as well just SELL gems, period.

Royaji

Elderscrollian wrote: »

Cosmetics etc.. are not convertible into gems per se, but the system for them to be exists as what do you think happens when you get duplicates? voila..

The same is true for apex rewards as well. If you get a duplicate you will get a certain amount of gems instead. But if you are getting it for the first time there is no way to convert it into gems.

Elderscrollian wrote: »

It doesn't break that idea at all, jeez some of you guys are melodramatic. I've already explained multiple items how this changes actually INCENTIVISES the purchases of crates.
Having a system whereby the want people to buy more and more crates KNOWING full well all you are going to get is duplicates and thing sot turn into gems in order to buy ANOTHER mount is a TERRIBLE system. For one thing it doesn't work for the majority only a very very small minority because "most" folks aren't that wealthy or that dumb. Secondly it doesn't solve the issue I spoke of in my OP, thirdly with that system they may as well just SELL gems, period.

Care to provide your marketing expert credentials?

Elderscrollian

Royaji wrote: »

The same is true for apex rewards as well. If you get a duplicate you will get a certain amount of gems instead. But if you are getting it for the first time there is no way to convert it into gems.

Like I said the fact duplicates convert into gems shows the system exists on the backend to allow them to do it, they just don't.

Care to provide your marketing expert credentials?

I could, although I fail to see the relevance. If I provide my extensive work in sales and marketing of the last three decades of work and my educational background is it likely to make you see and believe the logic of my argument over the failing in your own? I suspect not. I suspect you will think you are correct whatever because that is the purpose of passively aggressive confrontational statements like this, after all Not to mention is a breach of the CoC for you to ask for it and for me to actually share such info.

Royaji

Elderscrollian wrote: »

Like I said the fact duplicates convert into gems shows the system exists on the backend to allow them to do it, they just don't.

See, we agree that this only proves that duplicate items can be converted into gems. Nothing about the ones you acquire for the first time.

I could, although I fail to see the relevance. If I provide my extensive work in sales and marketing of the last three decades of work and my educational background is it likely to make you see and believe the logic of my argument over the failing in your own? I suspect not. I suspect you will think you are correct whatever because that is the purpose of passively aggressive confrontational statements like this, after all Not to mention is a breach of the CoC for you to ask for it and for me to actually share such info.

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