harmony nerf when?

Edziu

jadarock wrote: »

It is overtuned to argue differently is ignorant.

Also with negate its a buggy mess of a skill half the time I try to use it. If you dont call it out before dropping it nobody knows if its friend or foes. Thats dumb. Another example just last night tried dropping one on front flag at Nik and it followed me like proxy det up the stairs to the second floor smh useless and stupid af.
The bugs in this game are starting to wear my patience thin

this game was bugged, had bugs since forever and still have..and because there is another bug in counter to something then this is nto reason to nerf this something, to solve this problem this bug should be fixed but when? for this you can thanks to ZOS wth their speed of fixing bugs

and still...we needed to deal with bugs since forever in this game so please dont call nerfs to B thing because A thing as counter tot his is bugged etc, if you dont have patience waiting months if not years to fix this bug as how good we know ZOS then just quit this game or take break from this game for very long and just lurk on forums checking state of this game

Kingslayer513

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Harmony bombs are very situational and require excellent co-ordination.

This sentence alone proves that you don't open world pvp enough.

Kingslayer513

CompM4s wrote: »

⭕️ <— That is a red circle. Don't stand in those.

Come back and post when the server actually reliably renders the AOEs before you get hit by them.

Mr_Walker

NBrookus wrote: »

And sometimes you die because you lag out or can't CC break or whatever. It's frustrating. But seriously, do you expect anything else at this point?

No. I don't. CCs broken, and only more so since the idiotic Turn Evil was introduced, animations don't show properly, immovable pots work only when they decide to, broken af builds everywhere, load screen might as well be an ulti at this point, lag so bad bar swapping is "punch and pray", Volendrung up for hours, faction lock causing even wilder imbalances than previous in off peak, folks glitching scrolls out of locked keeps... the list goes on.

Seriously, fix the frigging game instead of the wild nerf/buff swings.

StrandedMonkey

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

Come back and post when the server actually reliably renders the AOEs before you get hit by them.

this pleases the stam necro

WreckfulAbandon

I've always thought that 3 jewelry traits is a small opportunity cost when you can hit 20k + synergies. Also, it's not super intricate to set up a bomb. When a good group is trying to nail you down to hit you with a bomb, it can be more difficult to get untangled from CC and snare hell to avoid the bomb. Usually when you're outnumbered by said harmony-using group.

I don't have a problem with harmony personally, the only way I could think of to improve it is to have % increase scale with # of enemies hit. They could even make it scale higher than the current numbers if you hit enough baddies. But I will never look at the current damage numbers, and the opportunity cost of 3 jewelry traits (roughly a 5 piece bonus), and think it's some huge and meaningful tradeoff. It's an exponential damage increase and can be just as easily used while outnumbering opponents.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

Bfish22090 wrote: »

way too op. grav crushes on a crit can hit for as much as 30k on people with fully buffed armor. grave robbers and standards hit very hard as well.

harmony NEEDS to be nerfed in this next update for the state of PVP

imagine l2p

jadarock

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

way too op. grav crushes on a crit can hit for as much as 30k on people with fully buffed armor. grave robbers and standards hit very hard as well.

harmony NEEDS to be nerfed in this next update for the state of PVP

imagine l2p

Imagine things like incap wings and damage from stealth being OP but 20-30k gravities isnt ?? lol ok

ZonasArch

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

way too op. grav crushes on a crit can hit for as much as 30k on people with fully buffed armor. grave robbers and standards hit very hard as well.

harmony NEEDS to be nerfed in this next update for the state of PVP

imagine l2p

Right? A very obvious skill, sitting there, fixed on the ground. Then you need a crit and full coordination to hit 30k on that one guy. Happens so often, I haven't even seen it in my death recaps...

Nerf what kills me, buff what I use. To hell with balance!

Edziu

jadarock wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

way too op. grav crushes on a crit can hit for as much as 30k on people with fully buffed armor. grave robbers and standards hit very hard as well.

harmony NEEDS to be nerfed in this next update for the state of PVP

imagine l2p

Imagine things like incap wings and damage from stealth being OP but 20-30k gravities isnt ?? lol ok

these was noot that much op, maybe just incap was when it was costing only 50 ult and with stun xD other way jsut l2p
and wekk, from 20-30k gravity you can, you additionally have (atleast you should have) red circle to get out of this

this is not like fresh destro ult which was way op with big range, moving and without any red circle, all you had you had only animation, effects of this skill and guessing where is borderline of damage to this, here you have grounded red circle from which you can without problem get out of this fast unless you are stunbugged which is not exceptional to only this

Revokus

notvenousdrake wrote: »

Surely no ones stupid enough to think harmony is too strong right?
A trait that is entirely dependent on having someone with you to gain any benefit?
(Except boneyard but to be fair who just sits in that tiny aoe just waiting for someone to pop grave robber)

Bad players who want it nerfed that's who lol

Revokus

jadarock wrote: »

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

Bfish22090 wrote: »

way too op. grav crushes on a crit can hit for as much as 30k on people with fully buffed armor. grave robbers and standards hit very hard as well.

harmony NEEDS to be nerfed in this next update for the state of PVP

imagine l2p

Imagine things like incap wings and damage from stealth being OP but 20-30k gravities isnt ?? lol ok

Grave Robber only hits 3-6k with 3 gold harmony on a player with a real pvp build. Maybe you should get out of your divine pyjamas and put a real pvp build on.

It only hits hard on bad players with bad builds especially bowtards that don't have any survivability as it should be.

jadarock

Revokus wrote: »

notvenousdrake wrote: »

Surely no ones stupid enough to think harmony is too strong right?
A trait that is entirely dependent on having someone with you to gain any benefit?
(Except boneyard but to be fair who just sits in that tiny aoe just waiting for someone to pop grave robber)

Bad players who want it nerfed that's who lol

No quit ignoring what people are saying . Aoes dont render until it's to late and cc immunity is a joke. Do you heal , solo or small scale because I do and I've been melted instantly on my troll-cro in heavy with hots up minimum of 27k resistances literally zero counterplay except to not be where its dropped . That's not fun .

And @Edziu I know how the destro trains worked I was around in their hay day....but
With destros you always had an audio cue that could easily be heard and know it's time gtfo of the way a bombers coming....right? Alessia bridge fights were bae btw lol

Funny that it's the [removed for inappropriate comment] leet players that use and defend these broken skills even after they are nerfed (ie dizzy) smh

Edziu

jadarock wrote: »

Revokus wrote: »

notvenousdrake wrote: »

Surely no ones stupid enough to think harmony is too strong right?
A trait that is entirely dependent on having someone with you to gain any benefit?
(Except boneyard but to be fair who just sits in that tiny aoe just waiting for someone to pop grave robber)

Bad players who want it nerfed that's who lol

No quit ignoring what people are saying . Aoes dont render until it's to late and cc immunity is a joke. Do you heal , solo or small scale because I do and I've been melted instantly on my troll-cro in heavy with hots up minimum of 27k resistances literally zero counterplay except to not be where its dropped . That's not fun .

And @Edziu I know how the destro trains worked I was around in their hay day....but
With destros you always had an audio cue that could easily be heard and know it's time gtfo of the way a bombers coming....right? Alessia bridge fights were bae btw lol

Funny that it's the [removed for inappropriate comment] leet players that use and defend these broken skills even after they are nerfed (ie dizzy) smh

sad is as how it is comming now
I wont say this is broken, dizzy, reflect like many more skills was not broken, just lazy af ignorants called for nerfs and here we go,like eveything before was nerfed, these things lost their uniqueness and with it fun, enjoy of using it and even sense of using it...now we get as I see just harmony trait on way of nerfs to everything which is fine to use but it began a new op thing even as it was not touching since added game but every other thing before it has bee nerfed, gutted to unusability

godly being knows which thing will be next to call for nerfs, nerf after harmony trait which again was not changing even a bit since release and was fine until until last nerfs to other things

FakeZavos

TheFM wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

You do realize, if one trait is nerfed, people will use another and therefore we will have claims that "Triune" is OP or "Infused" is OP ? We already had claims that "Swift" is OP and it was nerfed.

In their defence, swift broke the game for a lot of people, as they were moving too fast for the game to register properly, what with the lag in cyro and all.

I'll agree on swift, but Harmony is something different. It rewards group play and is a fun/unique way to play when playing as a group in Cyrodil or BG's. It rewards group coordination and opens up opportunities for smaller groups to take on larger groups than themselves (which definitely is a good thing).

Harmony is also used in PvE (mainly on tanks afaik) so it's not only a PvP thing that would be affected.

My suggestion for those complaining about this in PvP:

"Harmony -Bombing" is mostly effective vs large numbers of unorganised groups and the ones utilizing these tools with synergies will try to bait you into chokepoints to get the most effect out of these skills. Improve your positioning and if you see an enemy necromancer and a templar in a group, assume that there's a chance of getting attacked by this combo. Just knowing that will make you more cautious which will hopefully improve your chances of surviving. And if you still die, you might want to reconsider how you ended up where you ended (I guess you could say this is a nicer way to say L2P).

Running around spamming one button is not creative in any way shape or form.

The entire game is pressung buttons so idk how you like to measure creativity tbh.....

But optimizing a group (talking about 4-6 man groups not the 24 man zergs) and play around synergies (and to execute it properly) takes abit more effort.

The majority of people I see that want harmony nerfed are the ones playing in large groups that dislike the fact that smaller groups can actually counter them. Harmony is an interesting trait that suits a niche playstyle. This game needs more niche powerful/strong options, not less.

Powerful is fine, but not 21 k or more per use WITH resistances . Thats just broken when the average health is around 23 k. ANd im sorry, but most of the " good " ball groups are just running around spamming one button per person, everyone has that one job, and just spams that button. Other playstyles require ramp up and timing. With these groups its build super tanky, and just push through.

You obviously havent played with a decent "ballgroup". The times of spamming 1 button mightve been there a couple years go. But it aint there anymore. Sure if you are talking about the 24 man "ballgroups" who act organised but just zerg down solo players then maybe. But the good groups who are fighting with 6-12 man is a different story.

FakeZavos

On topic:

I like to play a 2-4 man group. We like to fight more people then our own group size. This used to be rather easy but especially since its a quite tanky meta it gets really hard. Harmony gives our 3 man the option to fight way bigger groups. Not everyone can pull it off. It requires alot of the 3 man to pull it off.

But nerf harmony and we will find something else. We will be on 3 stamdens with unkillable builds with 2h ults to nuke you that way. Its not the build or the class or even the skills. Its the perfect group setup combined with alot of coordination and skill.

So if you want harmony nerfed be my guest. But dont expect anything to change.

jadarock

FakeZavos wrote: »

On topic:

I like to play a 2-4 man group. We like to fight more people then our own group size. This used to be rather easy but especially since its a quite tanky meta it gets really hard. Harmony gives our 3 man the option to fight way bigger groups. Not everyone can pull it off. It requires alot of the 3 man to pull it off.

But nerf harmony and we will find something else. We will be on 3 stamdens with unkillable builds with 2h ults to nuke you that way. Its not the build or the class or even the skills. Its the perfect group setup combined with alot of coordination and skill.

So if you want harmony nerfed be my guest. But dont expect anything to change.

You prove my point though knowing and moving from one broken kit to the next instead of actually looking for a semblance of balance....and it is partly the skills !! OP onslaught and necro bash wasnt the player it was the op ass skill the dev's gave the players just like 20-30k synergies.....
If zos played their own game and realized how these things can and will be abused it really would go a long way

Edziu

FakeZavos wrote: »

On topic:

I like to play a 2-4 man group. We like to fight more people then our own group size. This used to be rather easy but especially since its a quite tanky meta it gets really hard. Harmony gives our 3 man the option to fight way bigger groups. Not everyone can pull it off. It requires alot of the 3 man to pull it off.

But nerf harmony and we will find something else. We will be on 3 stamdens with unkillable builds with 2h ults to nuke you that way. Its not the build or the class or even the skills. Its the perfect group setup combined with alot of coordination and skill.

So if you want harmony nerfed be my guest. But dont expect anything to change.

and thats what people cant get

they qq at something because they are to lazy to be able to l2p, so then they call for nerfs to this and then this is nerfed and then what? when this A thing got nerfed then people are going on thing B which places B in place for A and then people qq for nerfs for B, then on C, then on D etc etc

endless wheel of nerfs about which that many players ehre are to ignorant to notice if they nerf this one thing from meta, there would be next thing to replace nerfed thing....an negative IQ is very bright here

MashmalloMan

I think anyone being super defensive about this should look at the cost of picking up harmony over something like arcane, etc. The power alone is really high.

840ish magicka feels balanced in comparison to 100 spell damage. Although 100 spell damage is much better on paper, it scales better, offers probably about 50% more damage after modifiers, you give up a good amount of resources to obtain it, lowering your pool/sustain, lowering your shields, etc. The trade feels justified both ways.

Something about trading 840ish magicka for +35% damage/resource return per piece is just absurd. It is way too strong and if it stays this strong we will end up with nerfs to BASE synergies that hurts every player instead of these specific builds.

35% is just too much when you consider what you're actually trading it for. Synergies are not hard to use and they aren't always easy to avoid. There are snares and stuns in this game for a reason, it takes all of 1GCD to lay down Boneyard and no GCD to use a synergy in the first place.

I'm typically against nerfs, but sometimes they are justified, that is the nature of a growing and ever changing mmo. I get that we don't want to hurt build diversity, but do we really think 35% for 840 resources is justified? When you couple this with different things in the game it's just too strong.

Maybe 25% at max would be more reasonable. I just don't want to see base synergies nerfed because of this 1 jewelry trait and if you've ever been hit by this combo, you know you can't always avoid it, saying, well don't stand in Boneyard is so silly. It feels very cheap in terms of counter play sometimes, the Necro just needs to press the ability beneath them when they're on you and the synergy can be used right after. There is no counter play to react. It just takes a little coordination which shouldn't reward as much as it does.

I frankly haven't been hit by too many people using this, but something about a 20k + AOE synergy because you traded 3k resources just doesn't sound right.

Royaji

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I think anyone being super defensive about this should look at the cost of picking up harmony over something like arcane, etc. The power alone is really high.

840ish magicka feels balanced in comparison to 100 spell damage. Although 100 spell damage is much better on paper, it scales better, offers probably about 50% more damage after modifiers, you give up a good amount of resources to obtain it, lowering your pool/sustain, lowering your shields, etc. The trade feels justified both ways.

Something about trading 840ish magicka for +35% damage/resource return per piece is just absurd. It is way too strong and if it stays this strong we will end up with nerfs to BASE synergies that hurts every player instead of these specific builds.

35% is just too much when you consider what you're actually trading it for. Synergies are not hard to use and they aren't always easy to avoid. There are snares and stuns in this game for a reason, it takes all of 1GCD to lay down Boneyard and no GCD to use a synergy in the first place.

I'm typically against nerfs, but sometimes they are justified, that is the nature of a growing and ever changing mmo. I get that we don't want to hurt build diversity, but do we really think 35% for 840 resources is justified? When you couple this with different things in the game it's just too strong.

Maybe 25% at max would be more reasonable. I just don't want to see base synergies nerfed because of this 1 jewelry trait and if you've ever been hit by this combo, you know you can't always avoid it, saying, well don't stand in Boneyard is so silly. It feels very cheap in terms of counter play sometimes, the Necro just needs to press the ability beneath them when they're on you and the synergy can be used right after. There is no counter play to react. It just takes a little coordination which shouldn't reward as much as it does.

I frankly haven't been hit by too many people using this, but something about a 20k + AOE synergy because you traded 3k resources just doesn't sound right.

Yes. 35% increase on something you can only use once every 20 seconds. Or 3k extra resources which will affect every single skill you use. All the time. Seems pretty balanced to me.

Ranger209

It seems to me the damage caused by necro bombers isn't much different than the damage caused by any other type of bomber. In all cases you are compromising your build at all times when you are not bombing, by your gear choices to be a capable bomber when that opportunity arises. It's a trade off and when the stars aren't perfectly aligned, which is the majority of the time, you are actually weaker for it. The only difference is you are seeing one ability register the damage vs. it being distributed over an ulti, proxy, vd burst that is still all delivered in the end by a single button press. Bombers gonna bomb.

JimmyJuJu

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Harmony bombs are very situational and require excellent co-ordination.

This sentence alone proves that you don't open world pvp enough.

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

max_only

Harmony nerf when?


Are you talking about what?
Do you think you are who?

MashmalloMan

Royaji wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

I think anyone being super defensive about this should look at the cost of picking up harmony over something like arcane, etc. The power alone is really high.

840ish magicka feels balanced in comparison to 100 spell damage. Although 100 spell damage is much better on paper, it scales better, offers probably about 50% more damage after modifiers, you give up a good amount of resources to obtain it, lowering your pool/sustain, lowering your shields, etc. The trade feels justified both ways.

Something about trading 840ish magicka for +35% damage/resource return per piece is just absurd. It is way too strong and if it stays this strong we will end up with nerfs to BASE synergies that hurts every player instead of these specific builds.

35% is just too much when you consider what you're actually trading it for. Synergies are not hard to use and they aren't always easy to avoid. There are snares and stuns in this game for a reason, it takes all of 1GCD to lay down Boneyard and no GCD to use a synergy in the first place.

I'm typically against nerfs, but sometimes they are justified, that is the nature of a growing and ever changing mmo. I get that we don't want to hurt build diversity, but do we really think 35% for 840 resources is justified? When you couple this with different things in the game it's just too strong.

Maybe 25% at max would be more reasonable. I just don't want to see base synergies nerfed because of this 1 jewelry trait and if you've ever been hit by this combo, you know you can't always avoid it, saying, well don't stand in Boneyard is so silly. It feels very cheap in terms of counter play sometimes, the Necro just needs to press the ability beneath them when they're on you and the synergy can be used right after. There is no counter play to react. It just takes a little coordination which shouldn't reward as much as it does.

I frankly haven't been hit by too many people using this, but something about a 20k + AOE synergy because you traded 3k resources just doesn't sound right.

Yes. 35% increase on something you can only use once every 20 seconds. Or 3k extra resources which will affect every single skill you use. All the time. Seems pretty balanced to me.

There isn't only 1 synergy usuable in the game at a time and that isn't how these builds are used strictly speaking. "Once every 20 seconds." is just not true if you consider how many strong, bursty, aoe synergies are available. You're usually in a group that can pump out strong synergies for you, thats the nature of the trait, you would be very silly to not look for a group that can offer you more ways to utilitze the extreme bonus it gives.

+105% extra damage is just too much, 3k resources is nothing as a trade. Yes it takes some coordination, but it's seriously not hard to abuse, it doesn't have massive counter play when they can be activated off GCD and the trade is not justified with the level of power on the other Jewelry traits. It's not strong for everyone, but when it is, it's too strong... Imo anyway.

I think 25% at max is still very useful, if it's not changed I guarantee these builds will get base synergies nerfed and no one likes their class strenth nerfed because of power creep. I think we have enough of that already. Sets seem to get stronger while our class abilities get weaker.

Sandman929

Nerfing makes Harmony, which is situationally strong, completely useless like other traits. Do we really need more useless things?
Solo players don't typically favor Harmony, though some magcros might. Small groups can make good use of it and larger groups can make good use of it. Would it be better if Infused was the only worthwhile trait?

JimmyJuJu

Rather than nerf Harmony, how about let's buff Invigorating. Or...replace it with an actually useful trait.

FakeZavos

jadarock wrote: »

FakeZavos wrote: »

On topic:

I like to play a 2-4 man group. We like to fight more people then our own group size. This used to be rather easy but especially since its a quite tanky meta it gets really hard. Harmony gives our 3 man the option to fight way bigger groups. Not everyone can pull it off. It requires alot of the 3 man to pull it off.

But nerf harmony and we will find something else. We will be on 3 stamdens with unkillable builds with 2h ults to nuke you that way. Its not the build or the class or even the skills. Its the perfect group setup combined with alot of coordination and skill.

So if you want harmony nerfed be my guest. But dont expect anything to change.

You prove my point though knowing and moving from one broken kit to the next instead of actually looking for a semblance of balance....and it is partly the skills !! OP onslaught and necro bash wasnt the player it was the op ass skill the dev's gave the players just like 20-30k synergies.....
If zos played their own game and realized how these things can and will be abused it really would go a long way

Well ofcourse im going to find the strongest build I can think of. Thats the whole point of the game. Work the nerfs, adapt, get better. How else am I going to fight 15+ people with a 3 man? Am I in the future only allowed to use blue gear to balance the fact that im in an organised 3 man? Does that balance it out enough for you?

Like really, I dont like to yell l2p everywhere. But just because I can adapt to different buffs and nerfs doesnt mean that there is something wrong with that. Yes necro bashult was broken and im happy that got nerfed fast. 2h ult is quite strong and imo could also use a small rework. Harmony is also a strong jewl trait but its so situational and requires so many things to go right that I dont think you should nerf it (too much).

I think organised groupplay like this should be encouraged and not shut down by every guy who doesnt know how to counter it.

jadarock

JimmyJuJu wrote: »

Rather than nerf Harmony, how about let's buff Invigorating. Or...replace it with an actually useful trait.

I like this

MyPrist

Harmony is fine - it will be useless if it wil be weaker.

If some builds use it and and overpovered, than only nerf zose builds, but i do not see any problem. If you can not avaid small aoe, block , and play good Learn to Play than.

Czekoludek

Can I see 30k boneyard on death recap? Cuz ppl like to use this number but never actually see numbers like that in my game