Molten Arnament/Igneous Weapon discussion

Xvorg

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Pretty much useless ability. Only time I use it is if I feel like trolling around with a full heavy attack build on pts.

I think i once saw Kevduit make a heavy attack DK build, it looked boring as ***...

There are options, I used one with Knights slayer and torug's some time ago, before oblivion glyph was changed into that crap it is now. It killed most enemy's quite fast, except those ubertanks and healbots. And no, it wasn't boring since it required a lot of awareness (you had to quite fast to swap to resto staff and put healing ward when health was low).

The nerfs to oblivion dmg and healing ward destroyed it. Now I see some guys trying something similar in Cyro, but it's just meme of what it was.

That's a shame mate, I only started playing a year a go. The build variety seems to have taken quite a nose dive since launch from what I hear...

yup.

At launch there were few options too, but during 1.3 to 1.5 it was interesting. 1.6 made some changes, but there were a lot of options to play. Everything was somehow viable and competitive until Morrowind. After Morrowind we started slowly to crave into the current meta.

What's sad is that during 1.6 we believed the game was at its lowest spot and that it just only needed to improve... so we did everything we shouldn't have done: asking for nerfs. Now we highly regret that stupid path we took.

It's very interesting to see it has changed so much, has it always been expensive? What would your ideal molten armaments look like?

I would like a HOT with the buff as I don't think DK has access to any good HOTs outside of resto and cauterize. Cauterize I feel is a weak heal and no contest for the extra pressure you get from FOO. Cinder storm would be great if it either didn't limit mobility or didn't cost 5k 😭

I can't remember f it was as expensive at launch. At launch the numbers were quite different from what are now (max Magicka never got over 2k due to diminishing returns, and costs were around 2 and 3 figures, similar to current ulti costs), but I recall that it used to buff you and allies, so it seems it was somehow expensive.

Imho it should go back to the first or even the second iteration: adding flame/poison dmg to your weapon or basic attacks or working as an execute on basic attacks (including bash) while keeping the major buffs. The second one is quite interesting because it demands skill to use it in the precise moment not to waste the buff, like in middle of a fight to efectively execute an enemy.

Prebuffing on a DK goes against the very same rules of the class. DK is more about reacting, that's why it is much more reliable to use a pot/entropy/momentum

Both very interesting iterations...
In terms what DK is about... I'm not sure a developer could tell you. I know we all have had to move well away from attrition in dragonhold. I think high burst damage is the only way you can feasible build at the moment. Unless you want to be part of the problem and go tanky 🙄

Naaa, after all this years I try to build towards whats suits my playing style. I'm not a huge fan of attrition and I like the few bursty tools DK have (Lash, leap, inhale if someday works again).

Currently I'm using spinner's + TBS with shock staff (with a shock glyph) + BS on a rolly polly build to get access to off balance without having to use foss, and I've rediscovered the usefulness of Inevitable deto. Templars and necros that crave for purges end up damaging themselves, which is quite fun although the skill is expensive and does small dmg. But combined with leap and/or lash is kind of interesting

Davadin

disclaimer: i did NOT read all the posts in this thread....

....but i like Molten Armaments.

it uses Mag which I dont use very often, and i dont have to spam Frag Armor to get Minor Brutality - because i play offensively 99% of the time, I don't find myself in a "back bar turtle up" situation a lot, even if that heal buff is the primary reason it's slotted.

and it lasts longer than 20 sec.

then again, i'm the guy who still slot Fire Wings because it *feels* pretty effective when i'm being bombarded by mini zerg-balls of sorcs and necros.... also i do Heavy Attack quite a bit when I see "OFF BALANCE" pops after Dizzying, so the heavy attack +50% works very well for me too....



That being all said, I use it on my heavy armor build when i run around solo and trying to contribute to the random battles, or coincidental meeting for a 1v1.

On my med setup where I don't care if I die, i just want to hurt people situation.......... i'm back to Forward Momentum for Major Brut because it gives good CC-immunity, and i dont use Elude or RAT or the CC-immune wings morph or Immobilize pot no wait, i do use the pots, those are nice. heavy armor i use trip-pots, med i use immobilize.

and yes, the AoE brutality buff is great too.

relentless_turnip

Davadin wrote: »

disclaimer: i did NOT read all the posts in this thread....

....but i like Molten Armaments.

it uses Mag which I dont use very often, and i dont have to spam Frag Armor to get Minor Brutality - because i play offensively 99% of the time, I don't find myself in a "back bar turtle up" situation a lot, even if that heal buff is the primary reason it's slotted.

and it lasts longer than 20 sec.

then again, i'm the guy who still slot Fire Wings because it *feels* pretty effective when i'm being bombarded by mini zerg-balls of sorcs and necros.... also i do Heavy Attack quite a bit when I see "OFF BALANCE" pops after Dizzying, so the heavy attack +50% works very well for me too....



That being all said, I use it on my heavy armor build when i run around solo and trying to contribute to the random battles, or coincidental meeting for a 1v1.

On my med setup where I don't care if I die, i just want to hurt people situation.......... i'm back to Forward Momentum for Major Brut because it gives good CC-immunity, and i dont use Elude or RAT or the CC-immune wings morph or Immobilize pot no wait, i do use the pots, those are nice. heavy armor i use trip-pots, med i use immobilize.

and yes, the AoE brutality buff is great too.

I use fire wings too because I like the pressure it returns 😁 and I use RAT for cc immunity. I like RAT mainly for the minor force as I do a lot of no cp.

The majority of the posts we have spoken about the outrageous cost of molten and how it's utility should be improved to give us an argument to slot it over another source.

It's an earthen heart skill so regardless of how it is changed you'll still get the minor brutality passive just by activating it.

relentless_turnip

Xvorg wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Pretty much useless ability. Only time I use it is if I feel like trolling around with a full heavy attack build on pts.

I think i once saw Kevduit make a heavy attack DK build, it looked boring as ***...

There are options, I used one with Knights slayer and torug's some time ago, before oblivion glyph was changed into that crap it is now. It killed most enemy's quite fast, except those ubertanks and healbots. And no, it wasn't boring since it required a lot of awareness (you had to quite fast to swap to resto staff and put healing ward when health was low).

The nerfs to oblivion dmg and healing ward destroyed it. Now I see some guys trying something similar in Cyro, but it's just meme of what it was.

That's a shame mate, I only started playing a year a go. The build variety seems to have taken quite a nose dive since launch from what I hear...

yup.

At launch there were few options too, but during 1.3 to 1.5 it was interesting. 1.6 made some changes, but there were a lot of options to play. Everything was somehow viable and competitive until Morrowind. After Morrowind we started slowly to crave into the current meta.

What's sad is that during 1.6 we believed the game was at its lowest spot and that it just only needed to improve... so we did everything we shouldn't have done: asking for nerfs. Now we highly regret that stupid path we took.

It's very interesting to see it has changed so much, has it always been expensive? What would your ideal molten armaments look like?

I would like a HOT with the buff as I don't think DK has access to any good HOTs outside of resto and cauterize. Cauterize I feel is a weak heal and no contest for the extra pressure you get from FOO. Cinder storm would be great if it either didn't limit mobility or didn't cost 5k 😭

I can't remember f it was as expensive at launch. At launch the numbers were quite different from what are now (max Magicka never got over 2k due to diminishing returns, and costs were around 2 and 3 figures, similar to current ulti costs), but I recall that it used to buff you and allies, so it seems it was somehow expensive.

Imho it should go back to the first or even the second iteration: adding flame/poison dmg to your weapon or basic attacks or working as an execute on basic attacks (including bash) while keeping the major buffs. The second one is quite interesting because it demands skill to use it in the precise moment not to waste the buff, like in middle of a fight to efectively execute an enemy.

Prebuffing on a DK goes against the very same rules of the class. DK is more about reacting, that's why it is much more reliable to use a pot/entropy/momentum

Both very interesting iterations...
In terms what DK is about... I'm not sure a developer could tell you. I know we all have had to move well away from attrition in dragonhold. I think high burst damage is the only way you can feasible build at the moment. Unless you want to be part of the problem and go tanky 🙄

Naaa, after all this years I try to build towards whats suits my playing style. I'm not a huge fan of attrition and I like the few bursty tools DK have (Lash, leap, inhale if someday works again).

Currently I'm using spinner's + TBS with shock staff (with a shock glyph) + BS on a rolly polly build to get access to off balance without having to use foss, and I've rediscovered the usefulness of Inevitable deto. Templars and necros that crave for purges end up damaging themselves, which is quite fun although the skill is expensive and does small dmg. But combined with leap and/or lash is kind of interesting

It's a very interesting build.

I am currently part of the problem 😂 I run swift with succession and TK as my monster. I keep entropy up to proc it and other than coag it's my only source of healing. I mainly no cp so it works as a great HOT that increases if my health drops below 50%

I am really loving FOO on top of the other skills you mentioned. I found the amount of pressure I was sending was better than high tooltips. Which is partly why I was determined to build without cauterize. I've never enjoyed the play style of resto either...

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=201962

That's the build, I have very high pen as I do a lot of no cp.

I have considered spinners... I'm not sure how well it compares to succession, but I will try it soon. I have used BS like you too, but I sometimes feel like I'm playing wow again with my success being down to RNG 😂
I felt like this using BSW and other proc sets. That's just me though...

Davadin

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

disclaimer: i did NOT read all the posts in this thread....

....but i like Molten Armaments.

it uses Mag which I dont use very often, and i dont have to spam Frag Armor to get Minor Brutality - because i play offensively 99% of the time, I don't find myself in a "back bar turtle up" situation a lot, even if that heal buff is the primary reason it's slotted.

and it lasts longer than 20 sec.

then again, i'm the guy who still slot Fire Wings because it *feels* pretty effective when i'm being bombarded by mini zerg-balls of sorcs and necros.... also i do Heavy Attack quite a bit when I see "OFF BALANCE" pops after Dizzying, so the heavy attack +50% works very well for me too....



That being all said, I use it on my heavy armor build when i run around solo and trying to contribute to the random battles, or coincidental meeting for a 1v1.

On my med setup where I don't care if I die, i just want to hurt people situation.......... i'm back to Forward Momentum for Major Brut because it gives good CC-immunity, and i dont use Elude or RAT or the CC-immune wings morph or Immobilize pot no wait, i do use the pots, those are nice. heavy armor i use trip-pots, med i use immobilize.

and yes, the AoE brutality buff is great too.

I use fire wings too because I like the pressure it returns 😁 and I use RAT for cc immunity. I like RAT mainly for the minor force as I do a lot of no cp.

The majority of the posts we have spoken about the outrageous cost of molten and how it's utility should be improved to give us an argument to slot it over another source.

It's an earthen heart skill so regardless of how it is changed you'll still get the minor brutality passive just by activating it.

yes. and speaking of pressure, i loving Plague Slinger at this point lol.... 7k damage every sec for 5 sec every 15 sec (in Cyro its half and then mitigated, so im landing around 2~2.5k per TICK)

that plus Wings plus FOO plus Velidreth monster, and i dont have to worry/invest CP into DoT at all.... just focus on hitting a hard Dizzying....

Hotdog_23

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Get rid of the group buff part (self-buff only) and make it 2k cheaper. Of course, make it only last 20-24 seconds. Change the secondary benefit from heavy attack damage to something like major Expedition for 4 seconds, minor heroism for duration, purge like ability for 2 effects, minor armor buff or some form regen mechanic for highest offensive stat like 10%, or some type of execute where you do 5-10 extra damage with a target under 25% or empower for duration. Just spit balling different ideas.

All good idea's i'm not a fan of major expedition(maybe on wings) as you can get that RAT if it is important to you. I love the other idea's though, they synergise very well or fill a gap in the class.

Thanks, my idea was to fill in gaps that DK's have as far as major expedition I agree strongly with you it should be added to wings but for whatever reason ZOS does not seem to think it does then that’s why I added it here. Major expedition on a gap closer (chains) is stupid to me. It would be nice to be able to get it without a target but again wings has a high cost as well.

relentless_turnip

Davadin wrote: »

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Davadin wrote: »

disclaimer: i did NOT read all the posts in this thread....

....but i like Molten Armaments.

it uses Mag which I dont use very often, and i dont have to spam Frag Armor to get Minor Brutality - because i play offensively 99% of the time, I don't find myself in a "back bar turtle up" situation a lot, even if that heal buff is the primary reason it's slotted.

and it lasts longer than 20 sec.

then again, i'm the guy who still slot Fire Wings because it *feels* pretty effective when i'm being bombarded by mini zerg-balls of sorcs and necros.... also i do Heavy Attack quite a bit when I see "OFF BALANCE" pops after Dizzying, so the heavy attack +50% works very well for me too....



That being all said, I use it on my heavy armor build when i run around solo and trying to contribute to the random battles, or coincidental meeting for a 1v1.

On my med setup where I don't care if I die, i just want to hurt people situation.......... i'm back to Forward Momentum for Major Brut because it gives good CC-immunity, and i dont use Elude or RAT or the CC-immune wings morph or Immobilize pot no wait, i do use the pots, those are nice. heavy armor i use trip-pots, med i use immobilize.

and yes, the AoE brutality buff is great too.

I use fire wings too because I like the pressure it returns 😁 and I use RAT for cc immunity. I like RAT mainly for the minor force as I do a lot of no cp.

The majority of the posts we have spoken about the outrageous cost of molten and how it's utility should be improved to give us an argument to slot it over another source.

It's an earthen heart skill so regardless of how it is changed you'll still get the minor brutality passive just by activating it.

yes. and speaking of pressure, i loving Plague Slinger at this point lol.... 7k damage every sec for 5 sec every 15 sec (in Cyro its half and then mitigated, so im landing around 2~2.5k per TICK)

that plus Wings plus FOO plus Velidreth monster, and i dont have to worry/invest CP into DoT at all.... just focus on hitting a hard Dizzying....

I normally only play magdk(i have a hybrid sorc and a stamden) so have never looked into plague slinger.
I just googled it though and it does look op! I like that it doesn't have a chance to proc that its pressure from the moment your attacked. It looks like a fun build and a lot of pressure on the server as well as your enemy