Do we want a naval PvP mode?

nafensoriel

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that World of Warcraft can do moving ships that players don't fly off of, but ESO somehow can't. There don't even have to be interactable objects on the ship (aside from Balistas I suppose). But alright, suppose that's true for the sake of the argument and it's really not possible to make moving ships. All that really means is that relative distances of the ships can't change.

World of warcraft is a pathetically simple engine compared to ESO. There is no real physics in warcraft compared to pretty much anything else. It is, bluntly, an incredibly simple engine and it shows. Remember WOW is built on an engine that was released in 2002 meaning it is even older than that(considerably older actually).
In wows case, due to that simplicity, it is far far easier to do this than in ESOs case. The combat simplicity alone would shave a ton of complexity off. Remember only recently has WOW really done things like telegraphed attacks and they are still relatively simple compared to everyone else's methods.

Just to clarify though when i say "interactable" i mean a platform that does something with an active player on it. Just having something move isnt really hard. It would be childs play to make a boat "sail" in ESO. What would be difficult is having that boat move and have players capable of moving around on it, casting spells on it, and otherwise doing player things while that ship is moving. Consider for a moment a single spell... Wall of Elements. Consider how much more complex it is to have that spell work on a moving floor and you will begin to understand some of the complexity involved.

In the FO3>FO4 example they simply allowed players to actually be in moving things like an elevator and that alone is complex. Why do you think most FPS games don't really let you see your characters very well when you are on elevators or why they have loading screens as elevators? Most of the time when you see an "elevator" the OUTSIDE is moving not the actual "car".

We can still create the illusion of movement by having ocean waves move past the ship as if everyone was moving. That is definitely within ESO's capabilities. There doesn't need to be actual land within view and ZOS likes to paste images of landscape onto the horizon anyway. It shouldn't be too hard to get those to cycle or move very slowly either to create the illusion of movement. Then we could probably toy with the inverse foot kinematic that ZOS is so proud of and use it to make it appear as if she ship was actually moving in the waves and our characters had to adjust to being gently shaken around.

Doing that isn't as easy as you think. ESOs water is basically flat no matter how 3D it looks.To make a wave you'd either have to physically simulate the water, use terrain deformation(voxel), or animate. It's not simple. That's why most "water" techs are demos right now and why pretty much every game is just a half *** trick fest to simulate it.

Sure you can just do flat water and just use some crappy temp spray effects but that also might totally clusterbonk performance in a PVP arena. You are also assuming the engine sees water like ground for kinematics. That could be "hey easy!" or "wtf did you ask me to do?" depending on how the groundwork was setup.

It's really not that hard to make it look good enough and this would probably be a big feature for ZOS to use as a selling point in a chapter and building the foundation for it will pave the way to recycle these tricks for future dungeon DLCs etc. Maybe we will have a dungeon on the open sea and fight a kraken one day?
It's not as unrealistic as people claim, the question is if ZOS wants the game to go into that direction or not.

I think it's worth it to give PvP more love and add some more interactions between the factions outside of Cyrodiil. It's not the only place the war is being fought at anyway and the open sea is not in the way of DLCs.

Yes, unfortunately, it is. No part of the ESO engine was built around water. There is no groundwork there because it was never intended to be a major element of the game. Doing ANYTHING in water beyond "hey look pretty water" is going to be a significant amount of work.

If you came to me and said "make naval battles in eso" the very first thing I would do is tell you No. The second thing I would do is tell you to consider ship arenas or shipwreck arenas instead. It would be hugely more simple to have ballistas on a SINGLE NON MOVING PLATFORM than it would be to have two ships interact. Hell if you wanted two ships lock those puppies together(since its still just one platform to the game). Anything MOVING on water is a TERRIBLE idea that is not going to happen.

Please though don't think "a game from 2000 did it so it's easy!". As technology moved forwards features become more complex. People like to pretend that games are easier to make and to a point they are... but anything you do feature-wise suddenly expands in a hurry when you toss in lighting, physics, and motion. If you didn't plan for those early on its often a monolithic thing to strap them on later.

TheFM

Caramba! That's what a Jack-tar needs!

FierceSam wrote: »

No pirate game ever came out smiling

Assassins’ Creed jumped the shark when they went full pirate and has never recovered.

I can’t think of many things I want less from ESO than open water PvP

What ? Black flag was the last good one imo, and my favourite

bmnoble

No, I'm a shore loafer.

Closest I imagine you would get to that idea, would be a water themed battleground map, a few islands, ships connected by
gangplanks, lots of choke points, maybe even a chance to make use of those grapple hooks or even some basic siege weapons placed on the ships, since I am not certain if Elder Scrolls has cannons in some form or another.


All surrounded by deep water filled with those ever so friendly slaughterfish, that you can gently nudge people so they can see them up close, with large portions of the map having no way to get back to dry land in time.

TelvanniWizard

Caramba! That's what a Jack-tar needs!

Love the idea!

ArzyeL

No, I'm a shore loafer.

Maybe in a couple years

snoozy

No, I'm a shore loafer.

Kalante wrote: »

The game doesn't even work on land and you want it on water also?

^

wolf486

No, I'm a shore loafer.

FierceSam wrote: »

Assassins’ Creed jumped the shark when they went full pirate and has never recovered.

AC Black Flag is often considered one of the best AC games, and the two most recent (odyssey and Origins) have been both well received (both with naval combat of sorts in them).

Having said that, no. Many PvP'ers left the game do to performance, so they will have to get that sorted out first. BUT, when I played BDO I do know naval combat was super popular with many for PvP.

Also my main Orc is ready for some high seas thievery

Juhasow

What we need is revitalization of currently existing PvP instead of adding new modes that barely anyone will participate in.

Synaki

I liked naval combat in other games but in a game where you pretty much die instantly to slaughterfish the moment you touch water I can't imagine it coming to pass.

Paramedicus

Sometimes when there is lotta zerg in cyro and I run too much, ground textures won't load fast enought, so everything turns blue.

So I guess we have naval PVP mode already. If you don't expierience it, then maybe turn your graphic settings to high/ultra?


I hope that helps. This thread me be closed now.

VaranisArano

bmnoble wrote: »

Closest I imagine you would get to that idea, would be a water themed battleground map, a few islands, ships connected by
gangplanks, lots of choke points, maybe even a chance to make use of those grapple hooks or even some basic siege weapons placed on the ships, since I am not certain if Elder Scrolls has cannons in some form or another.


All surrounded by deep water filled with those ever so friendly slaughterfish, that you can gently nudge people so they can see them up close, with large portions of the map having no way to get back to dry land in time.

Redguard had cannons.
There's cannons in the artwork for one of the Legends card - Iliac Sorcerer. I don't one appears in the card itself.
Cannons are mentioned in a joke from a book in TES II Daggerfall.

We have not actually seen them in the main games, but they do appear to exist in Tamriel. Just not in any sort of common usage.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

Sounds good! Here are my views on how should it be:

we would need territorial waters and reasons to do it...own a ship and hire crew...would be awesome ofc if done right and obviously upgrade the damn boat up to the point of a dreadnought

coletas

i like the idea, but in other servers lol

ZOS_Mika

We have removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. Please keep in mind that disagreeing is fine, but rude and insulting commentary is a violation of our Community Rules.

Rake

NO

gepe87

As long we get fixes to current pvp modes...

precambria

Have you pvp'ed in this game recently lol. Adding boats to complete dysfunction seems like actually a brilliant idea, WHY NOT I GUESS

Aigym_Hlervu

Caramba! That's what a Jack-tar needs!

precambria wrote: »

Have you pvp'ed in this game recently lol. Adding boats to complete dysfunction seems like actually a brilliant idea, WHY NOT I GUESS

Don't switch on an idiot there. Where have I written that I want the ZOS to make it now without fixing current glitches? Some of you really surprise me guys. A simple question but you discuss whatever else but not the ideas of an actual gameplay. Quarreling with other because of some side emotions. The question was if we want naval PvP mode! This has never been intended to discuss any technical troubles of making it because we are players, not the devs. Moreover, you really think I voted to have that mode now or in a half a year? It might take the ZOS years to make it if they ever decide to. Stick to the question before answering it, if you do not understand - pass by. Don't start quarrels here. Please. Brainboxes..

Ragnork

Quote "The navel (clinically known as the umbilicus, colloquially known as the belly button) is a protruding, flat, or hollowed area... snip."

So we are going to battle with the biggest belly button? I don't know.

EDIT --- sorry just re-read Naval - that is something altogether different. No - how disgusting. I would rather don my bath towel and drink copious amounts of mead and brag about my navel - much more appropriate.... naval --- shudder - ugh.

idk

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

precambria wrote: »

Have you pvp'ed in this game recently lol. Adding boats to complete dysfunction seems like actually a brilliant idea, WHY NOT I GUESS

Where have I written that I want the ZOS to make it now without fixing current glitches?

No offense but it is pretty much implied when someone is suggesting they are interested in Zos adding something that they are interested in Zos working on it pretty soon. At that you created two threads on the subject in the same day which really indicates you are pushing for it now.

Rex-Umbra

Sounds good! Here are my views on how should it be:

Boats in Cyrodiil yes please

Emmagoldman

Caramba! That's what a Jack-tar needs!

The game needs new modes of play. Cyro is stale as a mofo being barely worked on and full of bugs. Devs havent touched ic in ages. Thieving was never fully thought out. Look, new release, let do a vet dlc and be done with it in three days.

90% of the game is grinding out reskinned items for holiday events. Id love to see something different and creative. Yet part of the ESO community firmly puts their foot down for any game mode that doesnt fit their exact preference of play. Hate to say it, but mostly from the hardcore pvers. It reminds me of a child angry that they got chocalate cake but wanted vanilla, yet ignoring that there are others happy that they have cake.

zyk

No, I'm a shore loafer.

Sure. Let's add space and time travel too. Why not?

nafensoriel

Cygemai_Hlervu wrote: »

/snipsnipsnip

A good idea, especially because space travel has already been created in the lore! Timetravel is something new to me in this universe. Anyway, a good idea. But not to be discussed within this poll . Thanks for voting, Zyk!

Google Elder Scrolls Dragon Break.

Time travel is already covered. Several times.

Maxx7410

Caramba! That's what a Jack-tar needs!

100% PvP needs to work well AND NEW content

berzerkdethb14_ESO1

No, I'm a shore loafer.

when zos gets turf combat right, sure

eso_lags

It would be cool if the game didnt run like garbage, so no. it would just make it run worse, sadly. Archeage is fun though, and has pretty good naval combat.

Aigym_Hlervu

Caramba! That's what a Jack-tar needs!

eso_lags wrote: »

It would be cool if the game didnt run like garbage, so no. it would just make it run worse, sadly. Archeage is fun though, and has pretty good naval combat.

Interesting.. And if the Archage becomes glitchy, would you change your mind on it's naval combat? I gave up playing Skyrim after that SE or something edition - the game began to run really bad on my computer I had at that time. But I've never made a dependence of a possibility of its new content on the way the game ran. It is either I buy a new machine or the devs fix the game in some years. The worst way - I'll give up Skyrim forever. Sad, but not that bad actually. Anyway, the ESO has always been running pretty well to me. I encounter no lags and only the groupfinder makes it a bit uncomfortable to wait for a group for several minutes. But I always have lots of fun in those massive Cyrodiil fights though. I wish your game runs better, mate. Thanks for voting!

M_Volsung

Anyron

Lets first fix cyrodiil before new content. And we still doesnt have underwater combat