Dragonknight Wings opinion

Aedaryl

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

I play stamDK and when I have wings slotted, maybe 1 from 20 of magsorcs I met can outdps wings+DK healing. This is wrong in my opinion.

And can you outdps matriarch heal critting for 15k+?

Are you trying to say that sorc healing is better than StamDK one ?

Healing is overtuned for everyone.

A good DK with a good build cannot be out dps by a sorc with wings. In no way. The healing + passive mitigation from wings + active mitigation from S&B is far too high.

Nser

Eniredir wrote: »

Please keep in mind this isn't a "buff dks" thread, just want an opinion on this.

I think I've seen this before mentioned in the forums, but what do you think of wings giving some form of expedition like wardens? Being that now it is mostly a underused and niche skill, and dks are not a mobile class at all.

I agree but i think they need to do one morph giving expedition and the other one giving heroism buff, in this way MDK sustain will be better with battle roar passive and SDK will get some speed If he will use the other morph.

Ragnarock41

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

I play stamDK and when I have wings slotted, maybe 1 from 20 of magsorcs I met can outdps wings+DK healing. This is wrong in my opinion.

And can you outdps matriarch heal critting for 15k+?

Are you trying to say that sorc healing is better than StamDK one ?

Healing is overtuned for everyone.

A good DK with a good build cannot be out dps by a sorc with wings. In no way. The healing + passive mitigation from wings + active mitigation from S&B is far too high.

Yes healing is overtuned across the board, and oh yes the tank class can survive as well as others, who would have thought.

Nser

Nser wrote: »

Eniredir wrote: »

Please keep in mind this isn't a "buff dks" thread, just want an opinion on this.

I think I've seen this before mentioned in the forums, but what do you think of wings giving some form of expedition like wardens? Being that now it is mostly a underused and niche skill, and dks are not a mobile class at all.

I agree but i think they need to do one morph giving expedition and the other one giving heroism buff, in this way MDK sustain will be better with battle roar passive and SDK will get some speed If he will use the other morph.

Regarding the 50% reducing damage is fine no need to change that wings is one of skills that feel you that your dragon knight, this is what I think as DK from beta. Make the wing great again.

Ryanoxx

Nser wrote: »

Eniredir wrote: »

Please keep in mind this isn't a "buff dks" thread, just want an opinion on this.

I think I've seen this before mentioned in the forums, but what do you think of wings giving some form of expedition like wardens? Being that now it is mostly a underused and niche skill, and dks are not a mobile class at all.

I agree but i think they need to do one morph giving expedition and the other one giving heroism buff, in this way MDK sustain will be better with battle roar passive and SDK will get some speed If he will use the other morph.

I have suggested to give MagDk more ultgen like wardens for example but almost everyone came at me with "this would make dks demigods". I don't think so because I remember sets like tavas in the past where dk was absolutely fine too. I think wings are actually a decent skill. It would be nice if they would give it an additional effect like you mentioned to explain the high cost of the skill because for a 6 second effect it is really expensive and is an issue to sustain these days where the sustain is bad anyway.

Royaji

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Nser wrote: »

Eniredir wrote: »

Please keep in mind this isn't a "buff dks" thread, just want an opinion on this.

I think I've seen this before mentioned in the forums, but what do you think of wings giving some form of expedition like wardens? Being that now it is mostly a underused and niche skill, and dks are not a mobile class at all.

I agree but i think they need to do one morph giving expedition and the other one giving heroism buff, in this way MDK sustain will be better with battle roar passive and SDK will get some speed If he will use the other morph.

I have suggested to give MagDk more ultgen like wardens for example but almost everyone came at me with "this would make dks demigods". I don't think so because I remember sets like tavas in the past where dk was absolutely fine too. I think wings are actually a decent skill. It would be nice if they would give it an additional effect like you mentioned to explain the high cost of the skill because for a 6 second effect it is really expensive and is an issue to sustain these days where the sustain is bad anyway.

There is a difference between getting unique 2 ultimate/s passive and just another source of non-stacking minor heroism.

lucky_Sage

I think old wings was a l2p issue that they could of added a cost Increase per cats like dodge roll and streak. they ether need to give it reflect back or just rework the whole ability because its trash now only reason its slotted is for root and snare immune, and RAT is better.

Ryanoxx

Royaji wrote: »

Ryanoxx wrote: »

Nser wrote: »

Eniredir wrote: »

Please keep in mind this isn't a "buff dks" thread, just want an opinion on this.

I think I've seen this before mentioned in the forums, but what do you think of wings giving some form of expedition like wardens? Being that now it is mostly a underused and niche skill, and dks are not a mobile class at all.

I agree but i think they need to do one morph giving expedition and the other one giving heroism buff, in this way MDK sustain will be better with battle roar passive and SDK will get some speed If he will use the other morph.

I have suggested to give MagDk more ultgen like wardens for example but almost everyone came at me with "this would make dks demigods". I don't think so because I remember sets like tavas in the past where dk was absolutely fine too. I think wings are actually a decent skill. It would be nice if they would give it an additional effect like you mentioned to explain the high cost of the skill because for a 6 second effect it is really expensive and is an issue to sustain these days where the sustain is bad anyway.

There is a difference between getting unique 2 ultimate/s passive and just another source of non-stacking minor heroism.

I would like both.

Xvorg

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

I play stamDK and when I have wings slotted, maybe 1 from 20 of magsorcs I met can outdps wings+DK healing. This is wrong in my opinion.

And can you outdps matriarch heal critting for 15k+?

Are you trying to say that sorc healing is better than StamDK one ?

Healing is overtuned for everyone.

A good DK with a good build cannot be out dps by a sorc with wings. In no way. The healing + passive mitigation from wings + active mitigation from S&B is far too high.

Just if you run tanky... you don't need to run tanky on a sorc to get a 360° burst heal

If we are going to compare, let's do it well... I would like to see a medium armor stamDK crit healing for 15K

Xvorg

Nser wrote: »

Nser wrote: »

Eniredir wrote: »

Please keep in mind this isn't a "buff dks" thread, just want an opinion on this.

I think I've seen this before mentioned in the forums, but what do you think of wings giving some form of expedition like wardens? Being that now it is mostly a underused and niche skill, and dks are not a mobile class at all.

I agree but i think they need to do one morph giving expedition and the other one giving heroism buff, in this way MDK sustain will be better with battle roar passive and SDK will get some speed If he will use the other morph.

Regarding the 50% reducing damage is fine no need to change that wings is one of skills that feel you that your dragon knight, this is what I think as DK from beta. Make the wing great again.

it's a skill that works against ~ 15 skills in the whole game, and caps those 15 skills dmg a 50%. Compared to any shield that's lackluster.

As a shield player you can recast the shield if you need it. As a DK, you have to cast wings and then ssuck it up if the other guy is smart enough to not use reflectable skills.

But it's "balanced"

CaliMade

Somebody Mentioned earlier To give it 30% projectile mitigation and major evasion, I like this Idea though i would tweak it a bit.

Give it 4 seconds of snare immunity, 20% projectile mitigation and Major evasion for 12 seconds for one morph, and the other morph still do the fireball counter but with the 20% projectile mitigation and major evasion.

This seems like it would make it a staple for all dks again without making it overly oppressive to lower dmg ranged specs

NBrookus

30% mitigation versus a dozen skills = useless

30% mitigation versus all ranged damage? Okay now we're talking.

devilsTear

Okay wild idea here,
Make wings act like sorcs streak that they fly away a distance whilst keeping the damage reduction or something else to keep it different from streak.

JinxxND

Just make them reflect again pls lol

JumpmanLane

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

Is there a boi that affirm that having 50% damage reduction vs projectile is not noticeable ?

Do realise 50% is like permablocking for free with a non S&B/ice staff weapon ?

Wings are unbalanced. This is a fact.

Unbalanced for 2 things :

- It's a niche skill that does almost nothing versus 80% of the classes.
- It's a skill that counter too much the 20 left.

Because it's too niche, it's either used as counter that you slot when facing a projectile/range build ot a skill that you don't use at all.

Asking for wings to be buffed by adding an new effect to make it used again is unbalanced, because it would make the 20% builds affected by it always hard countered everytime they meet a DK.

The only way to make wings a strong skill used by the majority without being OP is to rework them.

Make wings less a 1 build harcounter (= too strong for what it counter and niche because useless otherwise) to something that counter less hard is term of power, but have an interest no matter hwo you meet.

Reducing the projectile mitigation to add more new effect resulting having a skill that can be used all the time and that have an additionnal reasonnable counter effect on it is a good idea.

Then we should do the same to ball of lightning and crystallized shield? Maybe absorb magicka as well? There are skills that counter certain things, that's what make PvP in ESO interesting, there are always situational counters for everything. Making all skills generic will just make PvP boring.

Wings has been nerfed a lot over the years, and we still have people like you that complain about how OP it is. The only explanation to that I can think of is that players like you have a hard time to adapt to counters.

Crystallized shield take 1 cooldown to activate. It take less than 2 cooldown to remove it. You cannot use it and hardcounter the projectile build for 5s left. If you want to rely on it to make your ennemy inneficient, you need to spam it almost every second.

Ball of lighting is the bad morph of streak, using it is abandonning your only stun as a sorc. It has a stacking cost increase so it cannot be spammed. But the buble absorb last too long for sure. It should be nerfed in duration and get the stun back, then it wouldn't be the bad morph of streak that you use only to pee on projectile build and that still hurt your build.

Absorb magicka is a basic shield. You comparing it to projectile counter just proove how little you know about the game.

And no, there is no situal counter for everything. It never been. This isn't a rock paper scissor game.


To make wings popular again by adding a universal utility effect, you need to reduce the projectil absorb to 25% - just like Major evasion.

Yeah, I've been here since beta, but sure, I know very little of the game :P Hard to take you seriously with that attitude. And yes, this game is sure a rock paper scissors game.

But keep asking for nerfs like all the other bad players in this forum that can't learn to play and counter other builds, I'm sure it will make you a better player.

Being there for a long time and knowing the mechanics of the game isn't associated.

Tell me the counter to melee then ? Suprise there is none.

Did you even read what I wrote ? I don't want wings nerfed. I want wings being good enough to be worth slotting in most scenarios by adding utility on it without being an I win button to certain builds. It's called ballance.

A good example of good wings would be : 4s snare and immobilisation removal + immunity + 20% damage mitigation vs projectile + 4s minor expedition + 15% cost reduction from what it does cost right now.

It would be a good skill to use as a main snare removal and mobility skill and it would have a strong secondary effect.

Tjis is contrasting with actual wings, an I win button versus a minority of builds and a dead skill the rest of time, resulting to have a not worth slotting ability.

1. To counter melee, you block. Or deal damage. Or heal. Or CC them. The toolkit is big. Another time that you give the impression to be unable to adapt and counter play.
2. Wings isn't OP. It has never been. It's just that bad players can't counter it. And now the skill is nerfed a lot. I'd say that by just stating that wings is an OP button to certain builds you are showing how little you know about the game.
3. One of the morphs already give immunity to snares and immobilization. The other one gives damage. What you are proposing now is pretty OP though, and making the skill something it has never been. If I wanted a generic skill I would use something else.

But I'm tired of discussing this with you since you're clearly biased.

Me biased ?

You are litteraly sayng that the COUNTER to melee was "deal damage. Or heal. Or CC them". Do you realise that dealing damage, healing and CC is not a counter mechanic but litteraly PvP ? Do you realise that "deal damage. Or heal. Or CC them" apply to range too ?

You are also saying that wings were never OP. So you think that the wings that reflected (= immunity to projectile + damage) an infinite amount of projectile for a period of time (6s in the past though ?) was balanced. You litteraly say that taking no damage at all to every projectile build without limits + reflecting all the damage is balance.

And I am biased ? Really ?

FOUR projectiles for 6 seconds wasn’t op. 50% MULTIPLCATIVE damage reduction vs PROJECTILES isn’t op...unless you INSIST on fighting ONLY at range.

Sanguinor2

Just give wings 100% Damage Absorption on Unlimited projectiles, a teleport, a snare removal and snare immunity. Sounds like a good idea imo.

JinxxND

As a nightblade main that uses bow as a damage bar over my usual 2h/dw setups, primary because the magsorc problem in the game esp in BG's I rather have the wings reflect the 4 projectiles like it did before, all you had todo is light attack 4 times to drop the wings and they would have to put them back up requiring more resource management it on the dk's part.

NBrookus

JinxxND wrote: »

As a nightblade main that uses bow as a damage bar over my usual 2h/dw setups, primary because the magsorc problem in the game esp in BG's I rather have the wings reflect the 4 projectiles like it did before, all you had todo is light attack 4 times to drop the wings and they would have to put them back up requiring more resource management it on the dk's part.

Wait, you mean you actually reacted to your opponent and countered them, instead of pew pewing and then coming to the forums crying?

Astonishing.

JinxxND

I know right, there actually was counter play options to old wings who would have thought

jcm2606

JinxxND wrote: »

I know right, there actually was counter play options to old wings who would have thought

What are these "counter play options" you speak of? I thought we just whined for nerfs?

lucky_Sage

jcm2606 wrote: »

JinxxND wrote: »

I know right, there actually was counter play options to old wings who would have thought

What are these "counter play options" you speak of? I thought we just whined for nerfs?

that's what it has become

Ragnarock41

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Just give wings 100% Damage Absorption on Unlimited projectiles, a teleport, a snare removal and snare immunity. Sounds like a good idea imo.

works for sorcs.

Vildebill

JinxxND wrote: »

As a nightblade main that uses bow as a damage bar over my usual 2h/dw setups, primary because the magsorc problem in the game esp in BG's I rather have the wings reflect the 4 projectiles like it did before, all you had todo is light attack 4 times to drop the wings and they would have to put them back up requiring more resource management it on the dk's part.

Holy flying duck, there are actually smart players on the forums that can come up with counter play. There must be like 1000 nerf comments for every one of these. Hat's off.

Who would have thought that the super duper mega OP skill wings could've been countered BEFORE the nerf.

Shaloknir

devilsTear wrote: »

Okay wild idea here,
Make wings act like sorcs streak that they fly away a distance whilst keeping the damage reduction or something else to keep it different from streak.

Refreshing new idea. It would be cool and give dks new mobility skill.

Iskiab

Best thing to do I think is to reduce all projectile absorption abilities to a 30% projectile damage reduction. Put it in line with major defensive buffs.

Then give 4 seconds of major expedition on wings, so wings becomes a better version of RAT, and 10 seconds of projectile damage reduction.

Wings has always been really polarizing. Basicly does nothing against magplars but shuts down magblades.

Before anyone screams their head off because of the reduction in projectile damage reduction, just think. If you don’t use wings now and use RAT this is a buff.

MartiniDaniels

Iskiab wrote: »

Best thing to do I think is to reduce all projectile absorption abilities to a 30% projectile damage reduction. Put it in line with major defensive buffs.

Then give 4 seconds of major expedition on wings, so wings becomes a better version of RAT, and 10 seconds of projectile damage reduction.

Wings has always been really polarizing. Basicly does nothing against magplars but shuts down magblades.

Before anyone screams their head off because of the reduction in projectile damage reduction, just think. If you don’t use wings now and use RAT this is a buff.

This will be ok if speed bonus will be unique, i.e. stacks with major expedition. Otherwise 2H/bow stamDK builds which are quite popular will have nerfed wings version.

Iskiab

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Best thing to do I think is to reduce all projectile absorption abilities to a 30% projectile damage reduction. Put it in line with major defensive buffs.

Then give 4 seconds of major expedition on wings, so wings becomes a better version of RAT, and 10 seconds of projectile damage reduction.

Wings has always been really polarizing. Basicly does nothing against magplars but shuts down magblades.

Before anyone screams their head off because of the reduction in projectile damage reduction, just think. If you don’t use wings now and use RAT this is a buff.

This will be ok if speed bonus will be unique, i.e. stacks with major expedition. Otherwise 2H/bow stamDK builds which are quite popular will have nerfed wings version.

I don’t play stam and only mag (except a stamwarden healer). I’m not following, what do you mean?

Wouldn’t 2H/Bow use rally and the suggested wings change?

MartiniDaniels

Iskiab wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Best thing to do I think is to reduce all projectile absorption abilities to a 30% projectile damage reduction. Put it in line with major defensive buffs.

Then give 4 seconds of major expedition on wings, so wings becomes a better version of RAT, and 10 seconds of projectile damage reduction.

Wings has always been really polarizing. Basicly does nothing against magplars but shuts down magblades.

Before anyone screams their head off because of the reduction in projectile damage reduction, just think. If you don’t use wings now and use RAT this is a buff.

This will be ok if speed bonus will be unique, i.e. stacks with major expedition. Otherwise 2H/bow stamDK builds which are quite popular will have nerfed wings version.

I don’t play stam and only mag (except a stamwarden healer). I’m not following, what do you mean?

Wouldn’t 2H/Bow use rally and the suggested wings change?

2H/bow has naturally high uptime of major expedition due to bow roll-dodge passive.

Xvorg

Vildebill wrote: »

JinxxND wrote: »

As a nightblade main that uses bow as a damage bar over my usual 2h/dw setups, primary because the magsorc problem in the game esp in BG's I rather have the wings reflect the 4 projectiles like it did before, all you had todo is light attack 4 times to drop the wings and they would have to put them back up requiring more resource management it on the dk's part.

Holy flying duck, there are actually smart players on the forums that can come up with counter play. There must be like 1000 nerf comments for every one of these. Hat's off.

Who would have thought that the super duper mega OP skill wings could've been countered BEFORE the nerf.

It was always easy to counter on mageblades, not so easy on stamblades, put possible. 4 LA + cloak

Maybe a good idea to work it out should have been a stun: when a stun hits the DK flapping wings, the reflect is removed... but ZoS had a most creative solution

Davadin

morph 1: give me back my 100% reflect. damage and effect can be reflected.
morph 2: quadruple the duration and set cc-immunity the same duration as the reflection.