Dragonknight Wings opinion

Eniredir

Please keep in mind this isn't a "buff dks" thread, just want an opinion on this.

I think I've seen this before mentioned in the forums, but what do you think of wings giving some form of expedition like wardens? Being that now it is mostly a underused and niche skill, and dks are not a mobile class at all.

NBrookus

Well if it gave expedition like wardens, it'd be a copy of the other skill. I'd much rather they fix Empowering Chains to be a good and working skill for DKs to have a reliable class source of expedition. Because in theory it's a great gap closer, but one which has worked at for one or two patches since they created it.

Eniredir

NBrookus wrote: »

Well if it gave expedition like wardens, it'd be a copy of the other skill. I'd much rather they fix Empowering Chains to be a good and working skill for DKs to have a reliable class source of expedition. Because in theory it's a great gap closer, but one which has worked at for one or two patches since they created it.

Chains are pretty good for a tank role, I mean a source of expedition for the class

Ragnarock41

Nah the forums would riot at the idea of wings being good ever again, so lets nerf the crap out of shimmering shield and ball of lightning so they can have a fair taste.

Ragnarock41

NBrookus wrote: »

Well if it gave expedition like wardens, it'd be a copy of the other skill. I'd much rather they fix Empowering Chains to be a good and working skill for DKs to have a reliable class source of expedition. Because in theory it's a great gap closer, but one which has worked at for one or two patches since they created it.

Meanwhile sorcerers have both skills built into one ability : BoL, but mentioning that would make it obvious how bad wings is, so we can't have that.

Royaji

NBrookus wrote: »

Well if it gave expedition like wardens, it'd be a copy of the other skill. I'd much rather they fix Empowering Chains to be a good and working skill for DKs to have a reliable class source of expedition. Because in theory it's a great gap closer, but one which has worked at for one or two patches since they created it.

Bound Armaments, Turn Evil... At this point we might as well slap Expedition on Wings. Still need to come up with a way to make it a bit better than the original skill though

jcm2606

NBrookus wrote: »

Well if it gave expedition like wardens, it'd be a copy of the other skill. I'd much rather they fix Empowering Chains to be a good and working skill for DKs to have a reliable class source of expedition. Because in theory it's a great gap closer, but one which has worked at for one or two patches since they created it.

It wouldn't be a copy of Warden's wings, because DK's wings provides a gimped version of Crystallized Shield. It'd be like adding Major Expedition onto DK's version of Crystallized Shield, to make up for the *** feel of DK's wings.

I also feel like putting Major Expedition on a gap closer is a pretty stupid idea. Major Expedition is meant to help you either close or create gaps through basic movement, it doesn't make any sense to put it on a skill that closes the gap by itself.

Eniredir

I agree also with what's being said here, the skill needs a bit of love after the crap it has turned out to be

Eniredir

I just think there isn't a valid point on why this shouldn't be done, even within the general aesthetic of the class it makes sense. I mean, dragons use their wings to move faster

Banana

Sorcerers would be unhappy

MartiniDaniels

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Vildebill

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

MartiniDaniels

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

I play stamDK and when I have wings slotted, maybe 1 from 20 of magsorcs I met can outdps wings+DK healing. This is wrong in my opinion.

MartiniDaniels

As for the major expedition - this is one of the most easy obtainable buffs in the game, I don't think it will help much.

Vildebill

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

I play stamDK and when I have wings slotted, maybe 1 from 20 of magsorcs I met can outdps wings+DK healing. This is wrong in my opinion.

I think that says more about the sorcs you play against than the skill itself. I have no data on this, but I get the feeling that there are a lot of sorcs in PvP that rely on spamming ranged skills and are bad to adapt to a skill like wings. When I use wings on my MagDK and face a good sorc, that buster go near me, streak through me or do some other move to counter the skill. Wings can't be up forever since it's expensive, and that good sorc will just wait it out and then put pressure.

Aedaryl

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

Is there a boi that affirm that having 50% damage reduction vs projectile is not noticeable ?

Do realise 50% is like permablocking for free with a non S&B/ice staff weapon ?

Wings are unbalanced. This is a fact.

Unbalanced for 2 things :

- It's a niche skill that does almost nothing versus 80% of the classes.
- It's a skill that counter too much the 20 left.

Because it's too niche, it's either used as counter that you slot when facing a projectile/range build ot a skill that you don't use at all.

Asking for wings to be buffed by adding an new effect to make it used again is unbalanced, because it would make the 20% builds affected by it always hard countered everytime they meet a DK.

The only way to make wings a strong skill used by the majority without being OP is to rework them.

Make wings less a 1 build harcounter (= too strong for what it counter and niche because useless otherwise) to something that counter less hard is term of power, but have an interest no matter hwo you meet.

Reducing the projectile mitigation to add more new effect resulting having a skill that can be used all the time and that have an additionnal reasonnable counter effect on it is a good idea.

MartiniDaniels

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

I play stamDK and when I have wings slotted, maybe 1 from 20 of magsorcs I met can outdps wings+DK healing. This is wrong in my opinion.

I think that says more about the sorcs you play against than the skill itself. I have no data on this, but I get the feeling that there are a lot of sorcs in PvP that rely on spamming ranged skills and are bad to adapt to a skill like wings. When I use wings on my MagDK and face a good sorc, that buster go near me, streak through me or do some other move to counter the skill. Wings can't be up forever since it's expensive, and that good sorc will just wait it out and then put pressure.

I mean solo magsorcs of course, who were eager for 1v1.

Shaloknir

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

As for the major expedition - this is one of the most easy obtainable buffs in the game, I don't think it will help much.

Well yes, major expedition buff is easily obtainable, but with wings you would look badass while doing it Now it could make the skill unbalanced. Maybe they could make it mitigate only 30 - 40 % of projectile damage to compensate. I wouldn't mind a nerf - the speed with the aesthetics of wings would satisfy my fantasy itch.

And I agree with some in this thread. Major expedition with chains is odd combination. When you use gap closer, you don't need major expedition - at least most of the time I use gap closer I use it to get into melee range and introduce my two-handed axe to the opponent. When you're running away or repositioning major expedition is necessary (of course not the case with all the classes, nb has cloak and sorcerer has streak).

MartiniDaniels

Shaloknir wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

As for the major expedition - this is one of the most easy obtainable buffs in the game, I don't think it will help much.

Well yes, major expedition buff is easily obtainable, but with wings you would look badass while doing it Now it could make the skill unbalanced. Maybe they could make it mitigate only 30 - 40 % of projectile damage to compensate. I wouldn't mind a nerf - the speed with the aesthetics of wings would satisfy my fantasy itch.

And I agree with some in this thread. Major expedition with chains is odd combination. When you use gap closer, you don't need major expedition - at least most of the time I use gap closer I use it to get into melee range and introduce my two-handed axe to the opponent. When you're running away or repositioning major expedition is necessary (of course not the case with all the classes, nb has cloak and sorcerer has streak).

Maybe minor expedition+minor evasion? both bonuses are quite hard to obtain so that type of wings will be beneficial for all types of DKs - magDKs, medium stamDK, heavy stamDK.

@Gilliamtherogue

Gilliam, plz look at our idea on wings - reduce projectile protection to 35%, but add minor expedition and minor evasion for duration (6 seconds).

Vildebill

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

Is there a boi that affirm that having 50% damage reduction vs projectile is not noticeable ?

Do realise 50% is like permablocking for free with a non S&B/ice staff weapon ?

Wings are unbalanced. This is a fact.

Unbalanced for 2 things :

- It's a niche skill that does almost nothing versus 80% of the classes.
- It's a skill that counter too much the 20 left.

Because it's too niche, it's either used as counter that you slot when facing a projectile/range build ot a skill that you don't use at all.

Asking for wings to be buffed by adding an new effect to make it used again is unbalanced, because it would make the 20% builds affected by it always hard countered everytime they meet a DK.

The only way to make wings a strong skill used by the majority without being OP is to rework them.

Make wings less a 1 build harcounter (= too strong for what it counter and niche because useless otherwise) to something that counter less hard is term of power, but have an interest no matter hwo you meet.

Reducing the projectile mitigation to add more new effect resulting having a skill that can be used all the time and that have an additionnal reasonnable counter effect on it is a good idea.

Then we should do the same to ball of lightning and crystallized shield? Maybe absorb magicka as well? There are skills that counter certain things, that's what make PvP in ESO interesting, there are always situational counters for everything. Making all skills generic will just make PvP boring.

Wings has been nerfed a lot over the years, and we still have people like you that complain about how OP it is. The only explanation to that I can think of is that players like you have a hard time to adapt to counters.

Aedaryl

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

Is there a boi that affirm that having 50% damage reduction vs projectile is not noticeable ?

Do realise 50% is like permablocking for free with a non S&B/ice staff weapon ?

Wings are unbalanced. This is a fact.

Unbalanced for 2 things :

- It's a niche skill that does almost nothing versus 80% of the classes.
- It's a skill that counter too much the 20 left.

Because it's too niche, it's either used as counter that you slot when facing a projectile/range build ot a skill that you don't use at all.

Asking for wings to be buffed by adding an new effect to make it used again is unbalanced, because it would make the 20% builds affected by it always hard countered everytime they meet a DK.

The only way to make wings a strong skill used by the majority without being OP is to rework them.

Make wings less a 1 build harcounter (= too strong for what it counter and niche because useless otherwise) to something that counter less hard is term of power, but have an interest no matter hwo you meet.

Reducing the projectile mitigation to add more new effect resulting having a skill that can be used all the time and that have an additionnal reasonnable counter effect on it is a good idea.

Then we should do the same to ball of lightning and crystallized shield? Maybe absorb magicka as well? There are skills that counter certain things, that's what make PvP in ESO interesting, there are always situational counters for everything. Making all skills generic will just make PvP boring.

Wings has been nerfed a lot over the years, and we still have people like you that complain about how OP it is. The only explanation to that I can think of is that players like you have a hard time to adapt to counters.

Crystallized shield take 1 cooldown to activate. It take less than 2 cooldown to remove it. You cannot use it and hardcounter the projectile build for 5s left. If you want to rely on it to make your ennemy inneficient, you need to spam it almost every second.

Ball of lighting is the bad morph of streak, using it is abandonning your only stun as a sorc. It has a stacking cost increase so it cannot be spammed. But the buble absorb last too long for sure. It should be nerfed in duration and get the stun back, then it wouldn't be the bad morph of streak that you use only to pee on projectile build and that still hurt your build.

Absorb magicka is a basic shield. You comparing it to projectile counter just proove how little you know about the game.

And no, there is no situal counter for everything. It never been. This isn't a rock paper scissor game.


To make wings popular again by adding a universal utility effect, you need to reduce the projectil absorb to 25% - just like Major evasion.

Chilly-McFreeze

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Shaloknir wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

As for the major expedition - this is one of the most easy obtainable buffs in the game, I don't think it will help much.

Well yes, major expedition buff is easily obtainable, but with wings you would look badass while doing it Now it could make the skill unbalanced. Maybe they could make it mitigate only 30 - 40 % of projectile damage to compensate. I wouldn't mind a nerf - the speed with the aesthetics of wings would satisfy my fantasy itch.

And I agree with some in this thread. Major expedition with chains is odd combination. When you use gap closer, you don't need major expedition - at least most of the time I use gap closer I use it to get into melee range and introduce my two-handed axe to the opponent. When you're running away or repositioning major expedition is necessary (of course not the case with all the classes, nb has cloak and sorcerer has streak).

Maybe minor expedition+minor evasion? both bonuses are quite hard to obtain so that type of wings will be beneficial for all types of DKs - magDKs, medium stamDK, heavy stamDK.

@Gilliamtherogue

Gilliam, plz look at our idea on wings - reduce projectile protection to 35%, but add minor expedition and minor evasion for duration (6 seconds).

LOL sure. Fear rune and bound armaments paved the way.

Vildebill

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

Is there a boi that affirm that having 50% damage reduction vs projectile is not noticeable ?

Do realise 50% is like permablocking for free with a non S&B/ice staff weapon ?

Wings are unbalanced. This is a fact.

Unbalanced for 2 things :

- It's a niche skill that does almost nothing versus 80% of the classes.
- It's a skill that counter too much the 20 left.

Because it's too niche, it's either used as counter that you slot when facing a projectile/range build ot a skill that you don't use at all.

Asking for wings to be buffed by adding an new effect to make it used again is unbalanced, because it would make the 20% builds affected by it always hard countered everytime they meet a DK.

The only way to make wings a strong skill used by the majority without being OP is to rework them.

Make wings less a 1 build harcounter (= too strong for what it counter and niche because useless otherwise) to something that counter less hard is term of power, but have an interest no matter hwo you meet.

Reducing the projectile mitigation to add more new effect resulting having a skill that can be used all the time and that have an additionnal reasonnable counter effect on it is a good idea.

Then we should do the same to ball of lightning and crystallized shield? Maybe absorb magicka as well? There are skills that counter certain things, that's what make PvP in ESO interesting, there are always situational counters for everything. Making all skills generic will just make PvP boring.

Wings has been nerfed a lot over the years, and we still have people like you that complain about how OP it is. The only explanation to that I can think of is that players like you have a hard time to adapt to counters.

Crystallized shield take 1 cooldown to activate. It take less than 2 cooldown to remove it. You cannot use it and hardcounter the projectile build for 5s left. If you want to rely on it to make your ennemy inneficient, you need to spam it almost every second.

Ball of lighting is the bad morph of streak, using it is abandonning your only stun as a sorc. It has a stacking cost increase so it cannot be spammed. But the buble absorb last too long for sure. It should be nerfed in duration and get the stun back, then it wouldn't be the bad morph of streak that you use only to pee on projectile build and that still hurt your build.

Absorb magicka is a basic shield. You comparing it to projectile counter just proove how little you know about the game.

And no, there is no situal counter for everything. It never been. This isn't a rock paper scissor game.


To make wings popular again by adding a universal utility effect, you need to reduce the projectil absorb to 25% - just like Major evasion.

Yeah, I've been here since beta, but sure, I know very little of the game :P Hard to take you seriously with that attitude. And yes, this game is sure a rock paper scissors game.

But keep asking for nerfs like all the other bad players in this forum that can't learn to play and counter other builds, I'm sure it will make you a better player.

Aedaryl

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

Is there a boi that affirm that having 50% damage reduction vs projectile is not noticeable ?

Do realise 50% is like permablocking for free with a non S&B/ice staff weapon ?

Wings are unbalanced. This is a fact.

Unbalanced for 2 things :

- It's a niche skill that does almost nothing versus 80% of the classes.
- It's a skill that counter too much the 20 left.

Because it's too niche, it's either used as counter that you slot when facing a projectile/range build ot a skill that you don't use at all.

Asking for wings to be buffed by adding an new effect to make it used again is unbalanced, because it would make the 20% builds affected by it always hard countered everytime they meet a DK.

The only way to make wings a strong skill used by the majority without being OP is to rework them.

Make wings less a 1 build harcounter (= too strong for what it counter and niche because useless otherwise) to something that counter less hard is term of power, but have an interest no matter hwo you meet.

Reducing the projectile mitigation to add more new effect resulting having a skill that can be used all the time and that have an additionnal reasonnable counter effect on it is a good idea.

Then we should do the same to ball of lightning and crystallized shield? Maybe absorb magicka as well? There are skills that counter certain things, that's what make PvP in ESO interesting, there are always situational counters for everything. Making all skills generic will just make PvP boring.

Wings has been nerfed a lot over the years, and we still have people like you that complain about how OP it is. The only explanation to that I can think of is that players like you have a hard time to adapt to counters.

Crystallized shield take 1 cooldown to activate. It take less than 2 cooldown to remove it. You cannot use it and hardcounter the projectile build for 5s left. If you want to rely on it to make your ennemy inneficient, you need to spam it almost every second.

Ball of lighting is the bad morph of streak, using it is abandonning your only stun as a sorc. It has a stacking cost increase so it cannot be spammed. But the buble absorb last too long for sure. It should be nerfed in duration and get the stun back, then it wouldn't be the bad morph of streak that you use only to pee on projectile build and that still hurt your build.

Absorb magicka is a basic shield. You comparing it to projectile counter just proove how little you know about the game.

And no, there is no situal counter for everything. It never been. This isn't a rock paper scissor game.


To make wings popular again by adding a universal utility effect, you need to reduce the projectil absorb to 25% - just like Major evasion.

Yeah, I've been here since beta, but sure, I know very little of the game :P Hard to take you seriously with that attitude. And yes, this game is sure a rock paper scissors game.

But keep asking for nerfs like all the other bad players in this forum that can't learn to play and counter other builds, I'm sure it will make you a better player.

Being there for a long time and knowing the mechanics of the game isn't associated.

Tell me the counter to melee then ? Suprise there is none.

Did you even read what I wrote ? I don't want wings nerfed. I want wings being good enough to be worth slotting in most scenarios by adding utility on it without being an I win button to certain builds. It's called ballance.

A good example of good wings would be : 4s snare and immobilisation removal + immunity + 20% damage mitigation vs projectile + 4s minor expedition + 15% cost reduction from what it does cost right now.

It would be a good skill to use as a main snare removal and mobility skill and it would have a strong secondary effect.

Tjis is contrasting with actual wings, an I win button versus a minority of builds and a dead skill the rest of time, resulting to have a not worth slotting ability.

Kadoin

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

Is there a boi that affirm that having 50% damage reduction vs projectile is not noticeable ?

Do realise 50% is like permablocking for free with a non S&B/ice staff weapon ?

Wings are unbalanced. This is a fact.

Unbalanced for 2 things :

- It's a niche skill that does almost nothing versus 80% of the classes.
- It's a skill that counter too much the 20 left.

Because it's too niche, it's either used as counter that you slot when facing a projectile/range build ot a skill that you don't use at all.

Asking for wings to be buffed by adding an new effect to make it used again is unbalanced, because it would make the 20% builds affected by it always hard countered everytime they meet a DK.

The only way to make wings a strong skill used by the majority without being OP is to rework them.

Make wings less a 1 build harcounter (= too strong for what it counter and niche because useless otherwise) to something that counter less hard is term of power, but have an interest no matter hwo you meet.

Reducing the projectile mitigation to add more new effect resulting having a skill that can be used all the time and that have an additionnal reasonnable counter effect on it is a good idea.

Then we should do the same to ball of lightning and crystallized shield? Maybe absorb magicka as well? There are skills that counter certain things, that's what make PvP in ESO interesting, there are always situational counters for everything. Making all skills generic will just make PvP boring.

Wings has been nerfed a lot over the years, and we still have people like you that complain about how OP it is. The only explanation to that I can think of is that players like you have a hard time to adapt to counters.

Crystallized shield take 1 cooldown to activate. It take less than 2 cooldown to remove it. You cannot use it and hardcounter the projectile build for 5s left. If you want to rely on it to make your ennemy inneficient, you need to spam it almost every second.

Ball of lighting is the bad morph of streak, using it is abandonning your only stun as a sorc. It has a stacking cost increase so it cannot be spammed. But the buble absorb last too long for sure. It should be nerfed in duration and get the stun back, then it wouldn't be the bad morph of streak that you use only to pee on projectile build and that still hurt your build.

Absorb magicka is a basic shield. You comparing it to projectile counter just proove how little you know about the game.

And no, there is no situal counter for everything. It never been. This isn't a rock paper scissor game.


To make wings popular again by adding a universal utility effect, you need to reduce the projectil absorb to 25% - just like Major evasion.

Yeah, I've been here since beta, but sure, I know very little of the game :P Hard to take you seriously with that attitude. And yes, this game is sure a rock paper scissors game.

But keep asking for nerfs like all the other bad players in this forum that can't learn to play and counter other builds, I'm sure it will make you a better player.

He said ball of lighting was the bad morph of streak

You can't make this up...

Ah, the forums always have someone being a comedian!

Aedaryl

Kadoin wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

Is there a boi that affirm that having 50% damage reduction vs projectile is not noticeable ?

Do realise 50% is like permablocking for free with a non S&B/ice staff weapon ?

Wings are unbalanced. This is a fact.

Unbalanced for 2 things :

- It's a niche skill that does almost nothing versus 80% of the classes.
- It's a skill that counter too much the 20 left.

Because it's too niche, it's either used as counter that you slot when facing a projectile/range build ot a skill that you don't use at all.

Asking for wings to be buffed by adding an new effect to make it used again is unbalanced, because it would make the 20% builds affected by it always hard countered everytime they meet a DK.

The only way to make wings a strong skill used by the majority without being OP is to rework them.

Make wings less a 1 build harcounter (= too strong for what it counter and niche because useless otherwise) to something that counter less hard is term of power, but have an interest no matter hwo you meet.

Reducing the projectile mitigation to add more new effect resulting having a skill that can be used all the time and that have an additionnal reasonnable counter effect on it is a good idea.

Then we should do the same to ball of lightning and crystallized shield? Maybe absorb magicka as well? There are skills that counter certain things, that's what make PvP in ESO interesting, there are always situational counters for everything. Making all skills generic will just make PvP boring.

Wings has been nerfed a lot over the years, and we still have people like you that complain about how OP it is. The only explanation to that I can think of is that players like you have a hard time to adapt to counters.

Crystallized shield take 1 cooldown to activate. It take less than 2 cooldown to remove it. You cannot use it and hardcounter the projectile build for 5s left. If you want to rely on it to make your ennemy inneficient, you need to spam it almost every second.

Ball of lighting is the bad morph of streak, using it is abandonning your only stun as a sorc. It has a stacking cost increase so it cannot be spammed. But the buble absorb last too long for sure. It should be nerfed in duration and get the stun back, then it wouldn't be the bad morph of streak that you use only to pee on projectile build and that still hurt your build.

Absorb magicka is a basic shield. You comparing it to projectile counter just proove how little you know about the game.

And no, there is no situal counter for everything. It never been. This isn't a rock paper scissor game.


To make wings popular again by adding a universal utility effect, you need to reduce the projectil absorb to 25% - just like Major evasion.

Yeah, I've been here since beta, but sure, I know very little of the game :P Hard to take you seriously with that attitude. And yes, this game is sure a rock paper scissors game.

But keep asking for nerfs like all the other bad players in this forum that can't learn to play and counter other builds, I'm sure it will make you a better player.

He said ball of lighting was the bad morph of streak

You can't make this up...

Ah, the forums always have someone being a comedian!

Is it. Why you don't explain why you think the opposite ?

Bashing someone with 0 arguments isn't a way to proove an opinion.

I'm so curious to know your sorc knowledege

MartiniDaniels

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

Is there a boi that affirm that having 50% damage reduction vs projectile is not noticeable ?

Do realise 50% is like permablocking for free with a non S&B/ice staff weapon ?

Wings are unbalanced. This is a fact.

Unbalanced for 2 things :

- It's a niche skill that does almost nothing versus 80% of the classes.
- It's a skill that counter too much the 20 left.

Because it's too niche, it's either used as counter that you slot when facing a projectile/range build ot a skill that you don't use at all.

Asking for wings to be buffed by adding an new effect to make it used again is unbalanced, because it would make the 20% builds affected by it always hard countered everytime they meet a DK.

The only way to make wings a strong skill used by the majority without being OP is to rework them.

Make wings less a 1 build harcounter (= too strong for what it counter and niche because useless otherwise) to something that counter less hard is term of power, but have an interest no matter hwo you meet.

Reducing the projectile mitigation to add more new effect resulting having a skill that can be used all the time and that have an additionnal reasonnable counter effect on it is a good idea.

Then we should do the same to ball of lightning and crystallized shield? Maybe absorb magicka as well? There are skills that counter certain things, that's what make PvP in ESO interesting, there are always situational counters for everything. Making all skills generic will just make PvP boring.

Wings has been nerfed a lot over the years, and we still have people like you that complain about how OP it is. The only explanation to that I can think of is that players like you have a hard time to adapt to counters.

Crystallized shield take 1 cooldown to activate. It take less than 2 cooldown to remove it. You cannot use it and hardcounter the projectile build for 5s left. If you want to rely on it to make your ennemy inneficient, you need to spam it almost every second.

Ball of lighting is the bad morph of streak, using it is abandonning your only stun as a sorc. It has a stacking cost increase so it cannot be spammed. But the buble absorb last too long for sure. It should be nerfed in duration and get the stun back, then it wouldn't be the bad morph of streak that you use only to pee on projectile build and that still hurt your build.

Absorb magicka is a basic shield. You comparing it to projectile counter just proove how little you know about the game.

And no, there is no situal counter for everything. It never been. This isn't a rock paper scissor game.


To make wings popular again by adding a universal utility effect, you need to reduce the projectil absorb to 25% - just like Major evasion.

Yeah, I've been here since beta, but sure, I know very little of the game :P Hard to take you seriously with that attitude. And yes, this game is sure a rock paper scissors game.

But keep asking for nerfs like all the other bad players in this forum that can't learn to play and counter other builds, I'm sure it will make you a better player.

Being there for a long time and knowing the mechanics of the game isn't associated.

Tell me the counter to melee then ? Suprise there is none.

Did you even read what I wrote ? I don't want wings nerfed. I want wings being good enough to be worth slotting in most scenarios by adding utility on it without being an I win button to certain builds. It's called ballance.

A good example of good wings would be : 4s snare and immobilisation removal + immunity + 20% damage mitigation vs projectile + 4s minor expedition + 15% cost reduction from what it does cost right now.

It would be a good skill to use as a main snare removal and mobility skill and it would have a strong secondary effect.

Tjis is contrasting with actual wings, an I win button versus a minority of builds and a dead skill the rest of time, resulting to have a not worth slotting ability.

This will make wings completely useless. Now they at least shut down non-glass cannon sorcs and snipers, with 20% projectile protection and 4 seconds of minor expedition they will be just wasted bar space. Snare removal/immunity is hugely overrated. You got those for 3 seconds each time you roll-dodge or when snare expires. I mean it is nice to have snare removal.. but not to waste GCD/3k+ magicka each time.

Vildebill

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

Is there a boi that affirm that having 50% damage reduction vs projectile is not noticeable ?

Do realise 50% is like permablocking for free with a non S&B/ice staff weapon ?

Wings are unbalanced. This is a fact.

Unbalanced for 2 things :

- It's a niche skill that does almost nothing versus 80% of the classes.
- It's a skill that counter too much the 20 left.

Because it's too niche, it's either used as counter that you slot when facing a projectile/range build ot a skill that you don't use at all.

Asking for wings to be buffed by adding an new effect to make it used again is unbalanced, because it would make the 20% builds affected by it always hard countered everytime they meet a DK.

The only way to make wings a strong skill used by the majority without being OP is to rework them.

Make wings less a 1 build harcounter (= too strong for what it counter and niche because useless otherwise) to something that counter less hard is term of power, but have an interest no matter hwo you meet.

Reducing the projectile mitigation to add more new effect resulting having a skill that can be used all the time and that have an additionnal reasonnable counter effect on it is a good idea.

Then we should do the same to ball of lightning and crystallized shield? Maybe absorb magicka as well? There are skills that counter certain things, that's what make PvP in ESO interesting, there are always situational counters for everything. Making all skills generic will just make PvP boring.

Wings has been nerfed a lot over the years, and we still have people like you that complain about how OP it is. The only explanation to that I can think of is that players like you have a hard time to adapt to counters.

Crystallized shield take 1 cooldown to activate. It take less than 2 cooldown to remove it. You cannot use it and hardcounter the projectile build for 5s left. If you want to rely on it to make your ennemy inneficient, you need to spam it almost every second.

Ball of lighting is the bad morph of streak, using it is abandonning your only stun as a sorc. It has a stacking cost increase so it cannot be spammed. But the buble absorb last too long for sure. It should be nerfed in duration and get the stun back, then it wouldn't be the bad morph of streak that you use only to pee on projectile build and that still hurt your build.

Absorb magicka is a basic shield. You comparing it to projectile counter just proove how little you know about the game.

And no, there is no situal counter for everything. It never been. This isn't a rock paper scissor game.


To make wings popular again by adding a universal utility effect, you need to reduce the projectil absorb to 25% - just like Major evasion.

Yeah, I've been here since beta, but sure, I know very little of the game :P Hard to take you seriously with that attitude. And yes, this game is sure a rock paper scissors game.

But keep asking for nerfs like all the other bad players in this forum that can't learn to play and counter other builds, I'm sure it will make you a better player.

Being there for a long time and knowing the mechanics of the game isn't associated.

Tell me the counter to melee then ? Suprise there is none.

Did you even read what I wrote ? I don't want wings nerfed. I want wings being good enough to be worth slotting in most scenarios by adding utility on it without being an I win button to certain builds. It's called ballance.

A good example of good wings would be : 4s snare and immobilisation removal + immunity + 20% damage mitigation vs projectile + 4s minor expedition + 15% cost reduction from what it does cost right now.

It would be a good skill to use as a main snare removal and mobility skill and it would have a strong secondary effect.

Tjis is contrasting with actual wings, an I win button versus a minority of builds and a dead skill the rest of time, resulting to have a not worth slotting ability.

1. To counter melee, you block. Or deal damage. Or heal. Or CC them. The toolkit is big. Another time that you give the impression to be unable to adapt and counter play.
2. Wings isn't OP. It has never been. It's just that bad players can't counter it. And now the skill is nerfed a lot. I'd say that by just stating that wings is an OP button to certain builds you are showing how little you know about the game.
3. One of the morphs already give immunity to snares and immobilization. The other one gives damage. What you are proposing now is pretty OP though, and making the skill something it has never been. If I wanted a generic skill I would use something else.

But I'm tired of discussing this with you since you're clearly biased.

Aedaryl

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

Is there a boi that affirm that having 50% damage reduction vs projectile is not noticeable ?

Do realise 50% is like permablocking for free with a non S&B/ice staff weapon ?

Wings are unbalanced. This is a fact.

Unbalanced for 2 things :

- It's a niche skill that does almost nothing versus 80% of the classes.
- It's a skill that counter too much the 20 left.

Because it's too niche, it's either used as counter that you slot when facing a projectile/range build ot a skill that you don't use at all.

Asking for wings to be buffed by adding an new effect to make it used again is unbalanced, because it would make the 20% builds affected by it always hard countered everytime they meet a DK.

The only way to make wings a strong skill used by the majority without being OP is to rework them.

Make wings less a 1 build harcounter (= too strong for what it counter and niche because useless otherwise) to something that counter less hard is term of power, but have an interest no matter hwo you meet.

Reducing the projectile mitigation to add more new effect resulting having a skill that can be used all the time and that have an additionnal reasonnable counter effect on it is a good idea.

Then we should do the same to ball of lightning and crystallized shield? Maybe absorb magicka as well? There are skills that counter certain things, that's what make PvP in ESO interesting, there are always situational counters for everything. Making all skills generic will just make PvP boring.

Wings has been nerfed a lot over the years, and we still have people like you that complain about how OP it is. The only explanation to that I can think of is that players like you have a hard time to adapt to counters.

Crystallized shield take 1 cooldown to activate. It take less than 2 cooldown to remove it. You cannot use it and hardcounter the projectile build for 5s left. If you want to rely on it to make your ennemy inneficient, you need to spam it almost every second.

Ball of lighting is the bad morph of streak, using it is abandonning your only stun as a sorc. It has a stacking cost increase so it cannot be spammed. But the buble absorb last too long for sure. It should be nerfed in duration and get the stun back, then it wouldn't be the bad morph of streak that you use only to pee on projectile build and that still hurt your build.

Absorb magicka is a basic shield. You comparing it to projectile counter just proove how little you know about the game.

And no, there is no situal counter for everything. It never been. This isn't a rock paper scissor game.


To make wings popular again by adding a universal utility effect, you need to reduce the projectil absorb to 25% - just like Major evasion.

Yeah, I've been here since beta, but sure, I know very little of the game :P Hard to take you seriously with that attitude. And yes, this game is sure a rock paper scissors game.

But keep asking for nerfs like all the other bad players in this forum that can't learn to play and counter other builds, I'm sure it will make you a better player.

Being there for a long time and knowing the mechanics of the game isn't associated.

Tell me the counter to melee then ? Suprise there is none.

Did you even read what I wrote ? I don't want wings nerfed. I want wings being good enough to be worth slotting in most scenarios by adding utility on it without being an I win button to certain builds. It's called ballance.

A good example of good wings would be : 4s snare and immobilisation removal + immunity + 20% damage mitigation vs projectile + 4s minor expedition + 15% cost reduction from what it does cost right now.

It would be a good skill to use as a main snare removal and mobility skill and it would have a strong secondary effect.

Tjis is contrasting with actual wings, an I win button versus a minority of builds and a dead skill the rest of time, resulting to have a not worth slotting ability.

1. To counter melee, you block. Or deal damage. Or heal. Or CC them. The toolkit is big. Another time that you give the impression to be unable to adapt and counter play.
2. Wings isn't OP. It has never been. It's just that bad players can't counter it. And now the skill is nerfed a lot. I'd say that by just stating that wings is an OP button to certain builds you are showing how little you know about the game.
3. One of the morphs already give immunity to snares and immobilization. The other one gives damage. What you are proposing now is pretty OP though, and making the skill something it has never been. If I wanted a generic skill I would use something else.

But I'm tired of discussing this with you since you're clearly biased.

Me biased ?

You are litteraly sayng that the COUNTER to melee was "deal damage. Or heal. Or CC them". Do you realise that dealing damage, healing and CC is not a counter mechanic but litteraly PvP ? Do you realise that "deal damage. Or heal. Or CC them" apply to range too ?

You are also saying that wings were never OP. So you think that the wings that reflected (= immunity to projectile + damage) an infinite amount of projectile for a period of time (6s in the past though ?) was balanced. You litteraly say that taking no damage at all to every projectile build without limits + reflecting all the damage is balance.

And I am biased ? Really ?

Ragnarock41

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

I play stamDK and when I have wings slotted, maybe 1 from 20 of magsorcs I met can outdps wings+DK healing. This is wrong in my opinion.

And can you outdps matriarch heal critting for 15k+?

MartiniDaniels

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Vildebill wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Wings are extremely unbalanced right now. They are useless against non-projectile builds, but can completely shut down pressure from projectile builds. Imo, damage resistance from projectiles should be decreased to 30%, and as compensation add major evasion for duration (6 seconds). Also change how healing received passive works, make it proc for 20 seconds when draconic power ability is used, so user can go with other sources of major resolve other then volatile armor (if he is using wings actively)

Haha what? Wings were fine for years, was nerfed numerous times, and now we have a skill that's a shadow of what it ones was. If you think they shut down pressure from ranged builds you probably need to either play MagDK to notice this isn't the case, or change your own game play if you are the attacking part.

And I absolutely agree that expidition should be added to the skill. Let the sorcs and snipe spamming dancing queen blades work for their kills like the rest of us.

[/salt]

I play stamDK and when I have wings slotted, maybe 1 from 20 of magsorcs I met can outdps wings+DK healing. This is wrong in my opinion.

And can you outdps matriarch heal critting for 15k+?

No, if sorc is playing defensively he may just spam shields and streak out in 2 clicks if he sees he is under risk... From my latest experience best way to kill sorc is to use your burst during his burst and hope that he dies faster because fossilize and battle roar gives us some edge in all of this.

Of course this requires cc-immunity pot or unstoppable brute, so pre-meteor streak stun won't work.