The more in denial people are the worse it gets

Fawn4287

The key is and always has been to the tank meta is sword and board coupled with ridiculous over performing self and off cast burst heals, its become so bad at this point that healers with sword and boards are nearly unkillable thanks to blockcasting burst heals with a sword and board. Things will not change and likely only continue to get worse until it is nerfed appropriately. The sheer number of builds running around with s+b magica and stamina (if not more magica) is an indicator as to how overpowered it is.

Make a battle spirit passive with which skill effectiveness is reduced by a marginal amount (like 50%) while blocking, or reduce the cost and make block simply add resistances, because a magica build with its buffed 15k resistances Eating 2 onslaughts to remove the damage of both with 1 burst heal is actually a ridiculous way for the game to play.

daim

Make bad pvp players disappear from the game and stop messing the game up for the rest of us.

xylena

daim wrote: »

Make bad pvp players disappear from the game and stop messing the game up for the rest of us.

SnB block healing is braindead easy yet incredibly effective. It most definitely artificially keeps "bad pvp players" alive in zergs, and responding to kneejerk nerf posts with kneejerk never-nerf-anything posts is equally dumb.

That said, un-nerfing DoTs, Defiles, and Bleeds would probably go a lot farther than more nerfs.

MartiniDaniels

If you nerf S&B they will block with ice staff. This has nothing to do with S&B. Problem is that somebody overnerfed dots and added cast time to ultimates. And funny enough s&b works better for magicka classes which don't need restoration staff, then for stamina classes. Because if you go s&b on stam you are sacrificing master's bow and major expedition on roll dodge, while going s&b on magicka you sacrifice literally nothing.

Qbiken

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

If you nerf S&B they will block with ice staff. This has nothing to do with S&B. Problem is that somebody overnerfed dots and added cast time to ultimates. And funny enough s&b works better for magicka classes which don't need restoration staff, then for stamina classes. Because if you go s&b on stam you are sacrificing master's bow and major expedition on roll dodge, while going s&b on magicka you sacrifice literally nothing.

You sacrifice additional group healing as magicka by not going resto staff, so saying there's no trade off isn't entirely accurate. You either go more defensive and selfish with SnB, or you sacrifice some self survivability but gain better cross healing by going resto.

And to op, god *** forbid SnB is used as the defensive weapon it should be used as......

Fawn4287

Qbiken wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

If you nerf S&B they will block with ice staff. This has nothing to do with S&B. Problem is that somebody overnerfed dots and added cast time to ultimates. And funny enough s&b works better for magicka classes which don't need restoration staff, then for stamina classes. Because if you go s&b on stam you are sacrificing master's bow and major expedition on roll dodge, while going s&b on magicka you sacrifice literally nothing.

You sacrifice additional group healing as magicka by not going resto staff, so saying there's no trade off isn't entirely accurate. You either go more defensive and selfish with SnB, or you sacrifice some self survivability but gain better cross healing by going resto.

And to op, god *** forbid SnB is used as the defensive weapon it should be used as......

You sacrifice all healing when you die, but thanks to sword and board that not an issue anymore!

Fawn4287

daim wrote: »

Make bad pvp players disappear from the game and stop messing the game up for the rest of us.

Thats the point of this post, sword and board for a backbar is just cheese for people that cant figure out how to stay out of execute range without a reduce incoming damage by 90% button, couple it with mistform, tripots and defensive ults and you’ve removed all skill from staying alive

MartiniDaniels

Fawn4287 wrote: »

daim wrote: »

Make bad pvp players disappear from the game and stop messing the game up for the rest of us.

Thats the point of this post, sword and board for a backbar is just cheese for people that cant figure out how to stay out of execute range without a reduce incoming damage by 90% button, couple it with mistform, tripots and defensive ults and you’ve removed all skill from staying alive

I don't get it how removing 1800 extra resistance and 258 extra crit resistance (in comparison to ice staff) will prevent people from using tri-pots, mist and defensive ulties. Also imagine complaining about tri-pots when there are pots which are MUCH more powerful in terms of defense. I'd say there are pots which are legal cheats, because no newbie/average player will use something that costs 1500 gold once in 45 seconds, while for veteran player it is not a big issue.

Iskiab

I don’t see a problem with someone using sword and board for defense. I mean, isn’t that the point?

I think at this point this is just another part of the merry go round request for nerfs without understanding the issue.

The only class I’ve seen that can successfully even use S&B is stamwarden, besides them people give up too much and lack burst. As a mag you give up cross healing, as stam you give up burst. Seems balanced to me.

brandonv516

S&B block-casting burst heals doesn't work on Nightblade for some reason...

DarkGottbeard

Fawn4287 wrote: »

The key is and always has been to the tank meta is sword and board coupled with ridiculous over performing self and off cast burst heals, its become so bad at this point that healers with sword and boards are nearly unkillable thanks to blockcasting burst heals with a sword and board. Things will not change and likely only continue to get worse until it is nerfed appropriately. The sheer number of builds running around with s+b magica and stamina (if not more magica) is an indicator as to how overpowered it is.

Make a battle spirit passive with which skill effectiveness is reduced by a marginal amount (like 50%) while blocking, or reduce the cost and make block simply add resistances, because a magica build with its buffed 15k resistances Eating 2 onslaughts to remove the damage of both with 1 burst heal is actually a ridiculous way for the game to play.

There is only 2 ways to counter onslaught. Block and Dodge and magicka can't afford to dodge roll often enough for it to be a viable option of defense vs onslaught. The bottom line is someone countered your ultimate in the only way available to them. You do not get to automatically kill people just because you used an ultimate. They are allowed an opportunity to employ counter-play. Also, you imply that a 15k resist magicka build should NOT be able to survive 2 onslaughts but that ultimate ignores resistances so why would it matter? Also, why do you think a magicka character should automatically die to onslaught?

This sounds like more ignorance and stam bias to me.

srnm

Curious what makes a player bad...

So someone who has figured out that a snb offers good defence is a bad player?
What about people who run around in ball groups running vd and ulti dumping - are they good players?
My snb helps me survive and heal through all the crap the “good” players use...

Even "small man groups" are calling targets - and streaming it thinking their gameplay is an indication of skill...
pvp is a [snip] show - fixing a pet peeve without consideration of the broader impact/context doesn’t work very well.

[Edit for minor profanity]

BaiterOfZergs

I assure you it’s not snb, a lot of the people running around don’t even have snb. It’s just a collective of heals, shields, resistance and major/minor protection.

If anything a better argument would be the base block reduction is too high. Which is 50 percent damage reduction? For that you don’t even have to slot snb.

Fawn4287

I mean if stamina players were running around with resto staves dropping healing wards on themselves it would be considered a problem, but magica builds playing with a stamina defensive options is considered normal?

Royaji

Fawn4287 wrote: »

I mean if stamina players were running around with resto staves dropping healing wards on themselves it would be considered a problem, but magica builds playing with a stamina defensive options is considered normal?

Yeah, so you want to trash the "stamina" (it's really not) defensive option so they switch to ice staff and you are left with nothing. Good job?

Fawn4287

Royaji wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

I mean if stamina players were running around with resto staves dropping healing wards on themselves it would be considered a problem, but magica builds playing with a stamina defensive options is considered normal?

Yeah, so you want to trash the "stamina" (it's really not) defensive option so they switch to ice staff and you are left with nothing. Good job?

Dodge roll and line of sight is the defensive option for stam, or is face tanking the only way people can play the game today?

Kadoin

Please tell ZOS to delete the CP skill "vengence".

Kadoin

Fawn4287 wrote: »

I mean if stamina players were running around with resto staves dropping healing wards on themselves it would be considered a problem, but magica builds playing with a stamina defensive options is considered normal?

The woke stam players already do

I heard even a dev does it...

chrightt

Kadoin wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

I mean if stamina players were running around with resto staves dropping healing wards on themselves it would be considered a problem, but magica builds playing with a stamina defensive options is considered normal?

The woke stam players already do

I heard even a dev does it...

And how much did they actually heal. You’re saying a dev is doing it so it must be a 10/10 big brain 200IQ strategy? Sounds more like a scrub I killed without even realizing they were stam with a Magicka hybrid done wrong.

TheBonesXXX

daim wrote: »

Make bad pvp players disappear from the game and stop messing the game up for the rest of us.

That's most of the player base to include half if not all the metal thumpers.

technohic

They need to fix game performance first. As long as its crap, it effects more damage oriented players most as its harder to use active defenses and get combos in. Any nerf to any heals or defense in the meantime will just drive people to turtle up more and stack more players. Between performance getting fixed and making offensive debuffs more available and worthwhile; it would be more incentive to run less tanky.

EtTuBrutus

technohic wrote: »

They need to fix game performance first. As long as its crap, it effects more damage oriented players most as its harder to use active defenses and get combos in. Any nerf to any heals or defense in the meantime will just drive people to turtle up more and stack more players. Between performance getting fixed and making offensive debuffs more available and worthwhile; it would be more incentive to run less tanky.

Performance will not get fixed. Give up hope on that.

Chilly-McFreeze

Fawn4287 wrote: »

The sheer number of builds running around with s+b magica and stamina (if not more magica) is an indicator as to how overpowered it is.

How I Love this argument. Do you know how many sorcs use destro and resto staves? How many stam specs use vigor? How many dk use Leap? How many NB use cloak and shade? And how many stam sorcs use dizzy? Must be OP, Right? Better nerf them (again).

It would be funny if people didnt actually use this line of thoughts to justify their nerf fetish.

WoppaBoem

What is the issue here, S&B is not OP and makes you unkillable??? And yes many of my characters are with S&B mainly my mag characters as light armor is squishy, however with S&B, Shield and burst heal I can get out many situation add race of against time and this is very nice defensive playstyle. But not OP, if something is good it does not make it too good. I play PVP a lot and really don't see this as the major culprit of tanky players.

Black Rose Dual Wield, Mist form, over healing massively are issues plus more than anything CP.

Really try using anything you say is OP in no CP you will see CP is such a major issue.

xylena

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Really try using anything you say is OP in no CP you will see CP is such a major issue.

No-CP only reduces individual sustain and healing. No-CP group healing is still disgustingly strong. As soon as you run into groups stacking healbots (who usually run SnB/Resto), it's the same crap whether CP or No-CP, only even harder to survive as a solo in No-CP. If you want to try to make the point that ESO PvP feels better when you remove CP, zergs, healbots, PvDoor, and organized groups... I'm inclined to agree, but it's a different discussion.

WoppaBoem

xylena wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Really try using anything you say is OP in no CP you will see CP is such a major issue.

No-CP only reduces individual sustain and healing. No-CP group healing is still disgustingly strong. As soon as you run into groups stacking healbots (who usually run SnB/Resto), it's the same crap whether CP or No-CP, only even harder to survive as a solo in No-CP. If you want to try to make the point that ESO PvP feels better when you remove CP, zergs, healbots, PvDoor, and organized groups... I'm inclined to agree, but it's a different discussion.

I agree with both points yes. Myself have a S&B, Resto healer and I am sometimes amazed how I get my groups trough *** and win. I all needs to be brought down on the healing side. I need to have an impact but dedicated heals average DD, versus very good DD but no healer will always lose.

Reverb

So a mag player ate 2 Onslaughts and you want s+b nerfed because of it? You think you should have been handed a kill?

What if that person came here saying that stamina builds need nerfed because he had to play defensively against you instead of attacking. [snip]

[edited for baiting comment]

Fawn4287

Reverb wrote: »

So a mag player ate 2 Onslaughts and you want s+b nerfed because of it? You think you should have been handed a kill?

What if that person came here saying that stamina builds need nerfed because he had to play defensively against you instead of attacking. [snip].

I would be happy with an onslaught nerf and given that your name is reverb it would seem you might be a bit bias discussing the topic?

Reverb

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

So a mag player ate 2 Onslaughts and you want s+b nerfed because of it? You think you should have been handed a kill?

What if that person came here saying that stamina builds need nerfed because he had to play defensively against you instead of attacking. [snip]

I would be happy with an onslaught nerf and given that your name is reverb it would seem you might be a bit bias discussing the topic?

My name has been Reverb for much much longer than this game has existed. I am biased against people asking for nerfs. We need to stop the cycle of “this thing is a counter to my build. Nerf it”

mursie

CP is your problem. base stats inflated. defensive stats inflated. offensive stats not inflated enough to keep up. defiles nerfed.

remove CP and alot of people become alot more killable. that said - a coordinated group with dedicated heals, even in no-cp, will wreak havoc. but that should be expected, since they are operating as a coordinated team.

TequilaFire

Removing CP removes for all so yes lower healing and resistance but also lower damage and penetration so nothing changes.
Those with the numbers or gear and skill will still kill the players without.