Necro Grave Robber?

ArchMikem

So what's Grave Robber and why did it hit me for 21k? Google search just directed me to the Boneyard skill. Was chillin with a couple blues and a yellow just walks up and boom 21k and a Pulsar to finish.

CompM4s

necros boneyard skill procs grave robber

MizoreReyes

There are plenty of forum threads about this already but the simple answer is Boneyard skill synergy + 3x harmony trait jewelry build. It is devastating in group play, but in solo play the gimmick can be situational and predictable.

Jabbs_Giggity

This skill should not be able to be synergized by the caster. Period. If ZOS plans to keep it as such, other classes should be rolled into the same category and be able to synergize their skills themselves as well.

Just imagine a Harmony Templar that self-synerizes their own Novas Would that be too OP? Well, no different than Necros doing that with Grave Robber - A non-Ult skill that can synergize for more damage than Spectral Bow, Snipe and most Ultimates

ArchMikem

MizoreReyes wrote: »

There are plenty of forum threads about this already but the simple answer is Boneyard skill synergy + 3x harmony trait jewelry build. It is devastating in group play, but in solo play the gimmick can be situational and predictable.

So 3 gold Harmony traits gives their synergies 105% extra damage?

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

This skill should not be able to be synergized by the caster. Period. If ZOS plans to keep it as such, other classes should be rolled into the same category and be able to synergize their skills themselves as well.

And they can proc their own synergies??

Royaji

ArchMikem wrote: »

show previous quotes

MizoreReyes wrote: »

There are plenty of forum threads about this already but the simple answer is Boneyard skill synergy + 3x harmony trait jewelry build. It is devastating in group play, but in solo play the gimmick can be situational and predictable.

So 3 gold Harmony traits gives their synergies 105% extra damage?

show previous quotes

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

This skill should not be able to be synergized by the caster. Period. If ZOS plans to keep it as such, other classes should be rolled into the same category and be able to synergize their skills themselves as well.

And they can proc their own synergies??

Yes and yes.

DBZVelena

No wonder people don't like pvp as much these days.

WoppaBoem

It is becoming really tiresome and boring, fighting unkillable groups all tanks and healers with 1 or 2 necro bombers in them.... It does not have a counter except dont play group vs group.

jcm2606

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

This skill should not be able to be synergized by the caster. Period. If ZOS plans to keep it as such, other classes should be rolled into the same category and be able to synergize their skills themselves as well.

Just imagine a Harmony Templar that self-synerizes their own Novas Would that be too OP? Well, no different than Necros doing that with Grave Robber - A non-Ult skill that can synergize for more damage than Spectral Bow, Snipe and most Ultimates

It adds a sense of identity to the skill/class, opens up an entirely new option for building your character, requires a specific setup to really take full advantage of, is very telegraphed making it easy to evade, and is on the synergy cooldown meaning if it doesn't work, they can't do it again for another 12 or so seconds.

There needs to be more interesting mechanics like this, not less. Please stop asking for depth and diversity to be stripped from skills, builds and classes, it's actually ruining the game.

Iskiab

There’s a 20 second cooldown on using the synergy. It should be the hardest hitting ability that isn’t an Ult.

Jabbs_Giggity

jcm2606 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

This skill should not be able to be synergized by the caster. Period. If ZOS plans to keep it as such, other classes should be rolled into the same category and be able to synergize their skills themselves as well.

Just imagine a Harmony Templar that self-synerizes their own Novas Would that be too OP? Well, no different than Necros doing that with Grave Robber - A non-Ult skill that can synergize for more damage than Spectral Bow, Snipe and most Ultimates

It adds a sense of identity to the skill/class, opens up an entirely new option for building your character, requires a specific setup to really take full advantage of, is very telegraphed making it easy to evade, and is on the synergy cooldown meaning if it doesn't work, they can't do it again for another 12 or so seconds.

There needs to be more interesting mechanics like this, not less. Please stop asking for depth and diversity to be stripped from skills, builds and classes, it's actually ruining the game.

Okay, so you're saying that Templars should get their Blazeplars back? Nightblades should get their gank on back? Sorcs should have Cfrag stun back and one-shot Overload builds back? Pretty much all of those were "unique" staples among classes.
Also, it is not that telegraphed when there are massive amounts of lag and ball groups standing over said telegraph. Half the time you dont know if it's an Ult area, ror area, etc.

Jabbs_Giggity

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s a 20 second cooldown on using the synergy. It should be the hardest hitting ability that isn’t an Ult.

I disagree. If you're defending the ability to self synergize a non-ult damage skill to upward numbers of 11K-17K, on average, in a PVP setting that is stackable with a Damaging Ult that hits on average for 6-8K per tick while providing Major Vulnerability then you're probably one of the abusers of this mechanic.

I cannot think of any other synergy, other than Talons, that provides damage within an area and is not from an Ult, let alone one that can be self-synergized. The problem isn't the skill or what it does, the problem is self-synergy where you don't need coordination with a group member to activate.

If you're calling this "skilled" or "unique" mechanics then there should be A LOT of mechanics returned to classes that were deemed "unfair advantages" for them. If the ability were not able to be self-synergized than I, IMO, would not call it unbalanced. But the fact is that ZOS purposely created it this way to sell the class - it will be nerfed eventually.

WoppaBoem

The problem would not exist to self synergy without the harmony trait, without the harmony trait doing the synergy combined with the ult makes for good strong damage and coordinated with team members ult still very strong.

I think killing the self synergy would be a loss to the game. However it should lose the self synergy or harmony needs to be nerfed or changed to only count towards synergies from team members skills.

WoppaBoem

The necro bomber does make the PVP unbalanced. Group vs Group very big fights can go on, oh necrobomber boom win. And again and again, its to easy, to powerfull, no counters. Plus necro ult has no good animation warning of it going off.

Iskiab

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

show previous quotes

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s a 20 second cooldown on using the synergy. It should be the hardest hitting ability that isn’t an Ult.

I disagree. If you're defending the ability to self synergize a non-ult damage skill to upward numbers of 11K-17K, on average, in a PVP setting that is stackable with a Damaging Ult that hits on average for 6-8K per tick while providing Major Vulnerability then you're probably one of the abusers of this mechanic.

I cannot think of any other synergy, other than Talons, that provides damage within an area and is not from an Ult, let alone one that can be self-synergized. The problem isn't the skill or what it does, the problem is self-synergy where you don't need coordination with a group member to activate.

If you're calling this "skilled" or "unique" mechanics then there should be A LOT of mechanics returned to classes that were deemed "unfair advantages" for them. If the ability were not able to be self-synergized than I, IMO, would not call it unbalanced. But the fact is that ZOS purposely created it this way to sell the class - it will be nerfed eventually.

No, I don’t play a Necro.

Grave robber isn’t even one of the harder hitting synergies. Self synergizing isn’t the issue.

The class was deemed terrible by most players. Now some people adapted it and made it work, so people want it nerfed?

People are just being silly. The class needs fine tuning, things should be left as is and only nerfed as it’s core mechanics are being fixed.

WoppaBoem

Iskiab wrote: »

show previous quotes

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s a 20 second cooldown on using the synergy. It should be the hardest hitting ability that isn’t an Ult.

I disagree. If you're defending the ability to self synergize a non-ult damage skill to upward numbers of 11K-17K, on average, in a PVP setting that is stackable with a Damaging Ult that hits on average for 6-8K per tick while providing Major Vulnerability then you're probably one of the abusers of this mechanic.

I cannot think of any other synergy, other than Talons, that provides damage within an area and is not from an Ult, let alone one that can be self-synergized. The problem isn't the skill or what it does, the problem is self-synergy where you don't need coordination with a group member to activate.

If you're calling this "skilled" or "unique" mechanics then there should be A LOT of mechanics returned to classes that were deemed "unfair advantages" for them. If the ability were not able to be self-synergized than I, IMO, would not call it unbalanced. But the fact is that ZOS purposely created it this way to sell the class - it will be nerfed eventually.

No, I don’t play a Necro.

Grave robber isn’t even one of the harder hitting synergies. Self synergizing isn’t the issue.

The class was deemed terrible by most players. Now some people adapted it and made it work, so people want it nerfed?

People are just being silly. The class needs fine tuning, things should be left as is and only nerfed as it’s core mechanics are being fixed.

Then you play with Necro bomber in your team or you don't enter Cyro at all. I usually run 24 man groups and stopped couple weeks ago. We got into a fight with DC at BRK. It was 8 man team of tanks and healers and 1 necro bomber. They deveated 2 AD zergs and 2 EP zergs. All unkillable full defence and then the necro bomb. Its dumb its stupid and kills fun enjoyable zerg vs zerg fights. But you go on and defend and think again why casualls leave Cyro.

Royaji

WoppaBoem wrote: »

show previous quotes

Iskiab wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s a 20 second cooldown on using the synergy. It should be the hardest hitting ability that isn’t an Ult.

I disagree. If you're defending the ability to self synergize a non-ult damage skill to upward numbers of 11K-17K, on average, in a PVP setting that is stackable with a Damaging Ult that hits on average for 6-8K per tick while providing Major Vulnerability then you're probably one of the abusers of this mechanic.

I cannot think of any other synergy, other than Talons, that provides damage within an area and is not from an Ult, let alone one that can be self-synergized. The problem isn't the skill or what it does, the problem is self-synergy where you don't need coordination with a group member to activate.

If you're calling this "skilled" or "unique" mechanics then there should be A LOT of mechanics returned to classes that were deemed "unfair advantages" for them. If the ability were not able to be self-synergized than I, IMO, would not call it unbalanced. But the fact is that ZOS purposely created it this way to sell the class - it will be nerfed eventually.

No, I don’t play a Necro.

Grave robber isn’t even one of the harder hitting synergies. Self synergizing isn’t the issue.

The class was deemed terrible by most players. Now some people adapted it and made it work, so people want it nerfed?

People are just being silly. The class needs fine tuning, things should be left as is and only nerfed as it’s core mechanics are being fixed.

Then you play with Necro bomber in your team or you don't enter Cyro at all. I usually run 24 man groups and stopped couple weeks ago. We got into a fight with DC at BRK. It was 8 man team of tanks and healers and 1 necro bomber. They deveated 2 AD zergs and 2 EP zergs. All unkillable full defence and then the necro bomb. Its dumb its stupid and kills fun enjoyable zerg vs zerg fights. But you go on and defend and think again why casualls leave Cyro.

Was there any doubt that the moment a good zerg counter appears zergs would be unhappy?

Boneyard has 6m range. All you have to do to avoid getting bombed by a necro is not stack up in a blob. You can't crutch on your cross-healing that way? Good. We need more skills like that to encourage blobs to spread out or die.

WoppaBoem

Royaji wrote: »

show previous quotes

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s a 20 second cooldown on using the synergy. It should be the hardest hitting ability that isn’t an Ult.

I disagree. If you're defending the ability to self synergize a non-ult damage skill to upward numbers of 11K-17K, on average, in a PVP setting that is stackable with a Damaging Ult that hits on average for 6-8K per tick while providing Major Vulnerability then you're probably one of the abusers of this mechanic.

I cannot think of any other synergy, other than Talons, that provides damage within an area and is not from an Ult, let alone one that can be self-synergized. The problem isn't the skill or what it does, the problem is self-synergy where you don't need coordination with a group member to activate.

If you're calling this "skilled" or "unique" mechanics then there should be A LOT of mechanics returned to classes that were deemed "unfair advantages" for them. If the ability were not able to be self-synergized than I, IMO, would not call it unbalanced. But the fact is that ZOS purposely created it this way to sell the class - it will be nerfed eventually.

No, I don’t play a Necro.

Grave robber isn’t even one of the harder hitting synergies. Self synergizing isn’t the issue.

The class was deemed terrible by most players. Now some people adapted it and made it work, so people want it nerfed?

People are just being silly. The class needs fine tuning, things should be left as is and only nerfed as it’s core mechanics are being fixed.

Then you play with Necro bomber in your team or you don't enter Cyro at all. I usually run 24 man groups and stopped couple weeks ago. We got into a fight with DC at BRK. It was 8 man team of tanks and healers and 1 necro bomber. They deveated 2 AD zergs and 2 EP zergs. All unkillable full defence and then the necro bomb. Its dumb its stupid and kills fun enjoyable zerg vs zerg fights. But you go on and defend and think again why casualls leave Cyro.

Was there any doubt that the moment a good zerg counter appears zergs would be unhappy?

Boneyard has 6m range. All you have to do to avoid getting bombed by a necro is not stack up in a blob. You can't crutch on your cross-healing that way? Good. We need more skills like that to encourage blobs to spread out or die.

Again it will be the end of casuall gaming in Cyro. And they don't kill them at once, get like 5 players at once, and keep preventing resses, every time 5 or more players are together bomb them. We tried playing around the necro bomber and succeed, but it required so much yelling and directions of leaders its boring, not appealing for me at all. And looking at the complaineds and people dropping out in my zerg guild I know many feel the same.

Fighting against unkillable teams especially if you cannot get together and stack but all need to spread and 1 mistake many die and getting back from that will be very hard is not fun to do everyday. So why bother. Maybe I am wrong and majority thinks this is awesome for me I think this is the end for Cyro until this is altered enough it isn't so OP and skill less. And yes that makes me sad as I think its fun to have large groups organised, good at siege, enough heals and stacked and roaming the map with me as crown. With necro bomb its like, spread out, do not cordinated, try meatbag if space, do not follow them in keeps small spaces, only tanks of flags and most likely we loss go to otherside of the map see if we can find a group vs group fight no multi bombers again, oke log off who wants to join BG?

lol

Royaji

WoppaBoem wrote: »

show previous quotes

Royaji wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s a 20 second cooldown on using the synergy. It should be the hardest hitting ability that isn’t an Ult.

I disagree. If you're defending the ability to self synergize a non-ult damage skill to upward numbers of 11K-17K, on average, in a PVP setting that is stackable with a Damaging Ult that hits on average for 6-8K per tick while providing Major Vulnerability then you're probably one of the abusers of this mechanic.

I cannot think of any other synergy, other than Talons, that provides damage within an area and is not from an Ult, let alone one that can be self-synergized. The problem isn't the skill or what it does, the problem is self-synergy where you don't need coordination with a group member to activate.

If you're calling this "skilled" or "unique" mechanics then there should be A LOT of mechanics returned to classes that were deemed "unfair advantages" for them. If the ability were not able to be self-synergized than I, IMO, would not call it unbalanced. But the fact is that ZOS purposely created it this way to sell the class - it will be nerfed eventually.

No, I don’t play a Necro.

Grave robber isn’t even one of the harder hitting synergies. Self synergizing isn’t the issue.

The class was deemed terrible by most players. Now some people adapted it and made it work, so people want it nerfed?

People are just being silly. The class needs fine tuning, things should be left as is and only nerfed as it’s core mechanics are being fixed.

Then you play with Necro bomber in your team or you don't enter Cyro at all. I usually run 24 man groups and stopped couple weeks ago. We got into a fight with DC at BRK. It was 8 man team of tanks and healers and 1 necro bomber. They deveated 2 AD zergs and 2 EP zergs. All unkillable full defence and then the necro bomb. Its dumb its stupid and kills fun enjoyable zerg vs zerg fights. But you go on and defend and think again why casualls leave Cyro.

Was there any doubt that the moment a good zerg counter appears zergs would be unhappy?

Boneyard has 6m range. All you have to do to avoid getting bombed by a necro is not stack up in a blob. You can't crutch on your cross-healing that way? Good. We need more skills like that to encourage blobs to spread out or die.

Fighting against unkillable teams [snip] is not fun to do everyday.

So how majority of truly casual not-grouped players who just poped in at the nearest siege feel when they are facing your zerg? Enjoy some of your own medicine.

WoppaBoem

Royaji wrote: »

show previous quotes

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s a 20 second cooldown on using the synergy. It should be the hardest hitting ability that isn’t an Ult.

I disagree. If you're defending the ability to self synergize a non-ult damage skill to upward numbers of 11K-17K, on average, in a PVP setting that is stackable with a Damaging Ult that hits on average for 6-8K per tick while providing Major Vulnerability then you're probably one of the abusers of this mechanic.

I cannot think of any other synergy, other than Talons, that provides damage within an area and is not from an Ult, let alone one that can be self-synergized. The problem isn't the skill or what it does, the problem is self-synergy where you don't need coordination with a group member to activate.

If you're calling this "skilled" or "unique" mechanics then there should be A LOT of mechanics returned to classes that were deemed "unfair advantages" for them. If the ability were not able to be self-synergized than I, IMO, would not call it unbalanced. But the fact is that ZOS purposely created it this way to sell the class - it will be nerfed eventually.

No, I don’t play a Necro.

Grave robber isn’t even one of the harder hitting synergies. Self synergizing isn’t the issue.

The class was deemed terrible by most players. Now some people adapted it and made it work, so people want it nerfed?

People are just being silly. The class needs fine tuning, things should be left as is and only nerfed as it’s core mechanics are being fixed.

Then you play with Necro bomber in your team or you don't enter Cyro at all. I usually run 24 man groups and stopped couple weeks ago. We got into a fight with DC at BRK. It was 8 man team of tanks and healers and 1 necro bomber. They deveated 2 AD zergs and 2 EP zergs. All unkillable full defence and then the necro bomb. Its dumb its stupid and kills fun enjoyable zerg vs zerg fights. But you go on and defend and think again why casualls leave Cyro.

Was there any doubt that the moment a good zerg counter appears zergs would be unhappy?

Boneyard has 6m range. All you have to do to avoid getting bombed by a necro is not stack up in a blob. You can't crutch on your cross-healing that way? Good. We need more skills like that to encourage blobs to spread out or die.

Fighting against unkillable teams [snip] is not fun to do everyday.

So how majority of truly casual not-grouped players who just poped in at the nearest siege feel when they are facing your zerg? Enjoy some of your own medicine.

I see and get what you mean I really do. But then this we need work as a team coordinate, cover all roles and fill up gaps in the team. Train players work with them. Setup a large guild, recruit and keep members happy, design so many builds for members and what more to get to a point we have a strong guild group to storm keeps and yes win a lot. This versus 1 well designed build with I have to say a player with good timing and executing of the skills can kill all of the above on his own, that is the part that does not feel right, can you give me that one?

Qbiken

Spoiler

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s a 20 second cooldown on using the synergy. It should be the hardest hitting ability that isn’t an Ult.

I disagree. If you're defending the ability to self synergize a non-ult damage skill to upward numbers of 11K-17K, on average, in a PVP setting that is stackable with a Damaging Ult that hits on average for 6-8K per tick while providing Major Vulnerability then you're probably one of the abusers of this mechanic.

I cannot think of any other synergy, other than Talons, that provides damage within an area and is not from an Ult, let alone one that can be self-synergized. The problem isn't the skill or what it does, the problem is self-synergy where you don't need coordination with a group member to activate.

If you're calling this "skilled" or "unique" mechanics then there should be A LOT of mechanics returned to classes that were deemed "unfair advantages" for them. If the ability were not able to be self-synergized than I, IMO, would not call it unbalanced. But the fact is that ZOS purposely created it this way to sell the class - it will be nerfed eventually.

No, I don’t play a Necro.

Grave robber isn’t even one of the harder hitting synergies. Self synergizing isn’t the issue.

The class was deemed terrible by most players. Now some people adapted it and made it work, so people want it nerfed?

People are just being silly. The class needs fine tuning, things should be left as is and only nerfed as it’s core mechanics are being fixed.

Then you play with Necro bomber in your team or you don't enter Cyro at all. I usually run 24 man groups and stopped couple weeks ago. We got into a fight with DC at BRK. It was 8 man team of tanks and healers and 1 necro bomber. They deveated 2 AD zergs and 2 EP zergs. All unkillable full defence and then the necro bomb. Its dumb its stupid and kills fun enjoyable zerg vs zerg fights. But you go on and defend and think again why casualls leave Cyro.

Was there any doubt that the moment a good zerg counter appears zergs would be unhappy?

Boneyard has 6m range. All you have to do to avoid getting bombed by a necro is not stack up in a blob. You can't crutch on your cross-healing that way? Good. We need more skills like that to encourage blobs to spread out or die.

Again it will be the end of casuall gaming in Cyro. And they don't kill them at once, get like 5 players at once, and keep preventing resses, every time 5 or more players are together bomb them. We tried playing around the necro bomber and succeed, but it required so much yelling and directions of leaders its boring, not appealing for me at all. And looking at the complaineds and people dropping out in my zerg guild I know many feel the same.

Fighting against unkillable teams especially if you cannot get together and stack but all need to spread and 1 mistake many die and getting back from that will be very hard is not fun to do everyday. So why bother. Maybe I am wrong and majority thinks this is awesome for me I think this is the end for Cyro until this is altered enough it isn't so OP and skill less. And yes that makes me sad as I think its fun to have large groups organised, good at siege, enough heals and stacked and roaming the map with me as crown. With necro bomb its like, spread out, do not cordinated, try meatbag if space, do not follow them in keeps small spaces, only tanks of flags and most likely we loss go to otherside of the map see if we can find a group vs group fight no multi bombers again, oke log off who wants to join BG?

lol

We need more game mechanics that punish people for stacking up and having poor positioning, not less. "Moshpit fights" or pure "brawls" are in my book examples of bad PvP.

The increased zerg-fests is what´s killing PvP, not organized small/medium groups. Just accept that you and the other faction got outplayed by this DC group and move on maybe? And it´s not like it´s impossible to improve to counter these groups either (assuming your group is motivated enough to do so). And god forbid there´s a counter to blob groups like yours. Numbers shouldn´t be the main factor deciding the outcome of a fight.

Royaji

WoppaBoem wrote: »

show previous quotes

Royaji wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s a 20 second cooldown on using the synergy. It should be the hardest hitting ability that isn’t an Ult.

I disagree. If you're defending the ability to self synergize a non-ult damage skill to upward numbers of 11K-17K, on average, in a PVP setting that is stackable with a Damaging Ult that hits on average for 6-8K per tick while providing Major Vulnerability then you're probably one of the abusers of this mechanic.

I cannot think of any other synergy, other than Talons, that provides damage within an area and is not from an Ult, let alone one that can be self-synergized. The problem isn't the skill or what it does, the problem is self-synergy where you don't need coordination with a group member to activate.

If you're calling this "skilled" or "unique" mechanics then there should be A LOT of mechanics returned to classes that were deemed "unfair advantages" for them. If the ability were not able to be self-synergized than I, IMO, would not call it unbalanced. But the fact is that ZOS purposely created it this way to sell the class - it will be nerfed eventually.

No, I don’t play a Necro.

Grave robber isn’t even one of the harder hitting synergies. Self synergizing isn’t the issue.

The class was deemed terrible by most players. Now some people adapted it and made it work, so people want it nerfed?

People are just being silly. The class needs fine tuning, things should be left as is and only nerfed as it’s core mechanics are being fixed.

Then you play with Necro bomber in your team or you don't enter Cyro at all. I usually run 24 man groups and stopped couple weeks ago. We got into a fight with DC at BRK. It was 8 man team of tanks and healers and 1 necro bomber. They deveated 2 AD zergs and 2 EP zergs. All unkillable full defence and then the necro bomb. Its dumb its stupid and kills fun enjoyable zerg vs zerg fights. But you go on and defend and think again why casualls leave Cyro.

Was there any doubt that the moment a good zerg counter appears zergs would be unhappy?

Boneyard has 6m range. All you have to do to avoid getting bombed by a necro is not stack up in a blob. You can't crutch on your cross-healing that way? Good. We need more skills like that to encourage blobs to spread out or die.

Fighting against unkillable teams [snip] is not fun to do everyday.

So how majority of truly casual not-grouped players who just poped in at the nearest siege feel when they are facing your zerg? Enjoy some of your own medicine.

I see and get what you mean I really do. But then this we need work as a team coordinate, cover all roles and fill up gaps in the team. Train players work with them. Setup a large guild, recruit and keep members happy, design so many builds for members and what more to get to a point we have a strong guild group to storm keeps and yes win a lot. This versus 1 well designed build with I have to say a player with good timing and executing of the skills can kill all of the above on his own, that is the part that does not feel right, can you give me that one?

No, I can't.

The only reason this player is so effective against you is because he found a way to turn your main advantage (stacking up in a blob to cross-heal each other and be nearly immortal against regular builds) into a massive disadvantage. There is a price he had to pay for it since a bomber is a lot less effective against unstacked opponents than a regular build. So you have the same choices on the table. Stick to what you are doing, have overwhelming advantage against nearly everyone except this one specific build or redesign your group and builds to rely less on pure stacking, lose some advantage against ungrouped players but become less lucrative target for a bomber.

Easy.

WoppaBoem

Qbiken wrote: »

Spoiler

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s a 20 second cooldown on using the synergy. It should be the hardest hitting ability that isn’t an Ult.

I disagree. If you're defending the ability to self synergize a non-ult damage skill to upward numbers of 11K-17K, on average, in a PVP setting that is stackable with a Damaging Ult that hits on average for 6-8K per tick while providing Major Vulnerability then you're probably one of the abusers of this mechanic.

I cannot think of any other synergy, other than Talons, that provides damage within an area and is not from an Ult, let alone one that can be self-synergized. The problem isn't the skill or what it does, the problem is self-synergy where you don't need coordination with a group member to activate.

If you're calling this "skilled" or "unique" mechanics then there should be A LOT of mechanics returned to classes that were deemed "unfair advantages" for them. If the ability were not able to be self-synergized than I, IMO, would not call it unbalanced. But the fact is that ZOS purposely created it this way to sell the class - it will be nerfed eventually.

No, I don’t play a Necro.

Grave robber isn’t even one of the harder hitting synergies. Self synergizing isn’t the issue.

The class was deemed terrible by most players. Now some people adapted it and made it work, so people want it nerfed?

People are just being silly. The class needs fine tuning, things should be left as is and only nerfed as it’s core mechanics are being fixed.

Then you play with Necro bomber in your team or you don't enter Cyro at all. I usually run 24 man groups and stopped couple weeks ago. We got into a fight with DC at BRK. It was 8 man team of tanks and healers and 1 necro bomber. They deveated 2 AD zergs and 2 EP zergs. All unkillable full defence and then the necro bomb. Its dumb its stupid and kills fun enjoyable zerg vs zerg fights. But you go on and defend and think again why casualls leave Cyro.

Was there any doubt that the moment a good zerg counter appears zergs would be unhappy?

Boneyard has 6m range. All you have to do to avoid getting bombed by a necro is not stack up in a blob. You can't crutch on your cross-healing that way? Good. We need more skills like that to encourage blobs to spread out or die.

Again it will be the end of casuall gaming in Cyro. And they don't kill them at once, get like 5 players at once, and keep preventing resses, every time 5 or more players are together bomb them. We tried playing around the necro bomber and succeed, but it required so much yelling and directions of leaders its boring, not appealing for me at all. And looking at the complaineds and people dropping out in my zerg guild I know many feel the same.

Fighting against unkillable teams especially if you cannot get together and stack but all need to spread and 1 mistake many die and getting back from that will be very hard is not fun to do everyday. So why bother. Maybe I am wrong and majority thinks this is awesome for me I think this is the end for Cyro until this is altered enough it isn't so OP and skill less. And yes that makes me sad as I think its fun to have large groups organised, good at siege, enough heals and stacked and roaming the map with me as crown. With necro bomb its like, spread out, do not cordinated, try meatbag if space, do not follow them in keeps small spaces, only tanks of flags and most likely we loss go to otherside of the map see if we can find a group vs group fight no multi bombers again, oke log off who wants to join BG?

lol

We need more game mechanics that punish people for stacking up and having poor positioning, not less. "Moshpit fights" or pure "brawls" are in my book examples of bad PvP.

The increased zerg-fests is what´s killing PvP, not organized small/medium groups. Just accept that you and the other faction got outplayed by this DC group and move on maybe? And it´s not like it´s impossible to improve to counter these groups either (assuming your group is motivated enough to do so). And god forbid there´s a counter to blob groups like yours. Numbers shouldn´t be the main factor deciding the outcome of a fight.

For that DC group I had many respect and they are so good much motivation to specically try to get that group again out of respect on how they pull it off yes. However every player that wants it easy now creates those bombers changing the whole gameplay of ESO Cyro, do I have motivation to deal with that, not really, and talking with multiple other zerg guilds the motivation is not really there. BGs have been much busyer since of late.

There is huge wargasime feeling when a group stack and is in sync to win battles. With that removed, large scale is over for me.

Iskiab

Qbiken wrote: »

Spoiler

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

WoppaBoem wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Jabbs_Giggity wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

There’s a 20 second cooldown on using the synergy. It should be the hardest hitting ability that isn’t an Ult.

I disagree. If you're defending the ability to self synergize a non-ult damage skill to upward numbers of 11K-17K, on average, in a PVP setting that is stackable with a Damaging Ult that hits on average for 6-8K per tick while providing Major Vulnerability then you're probably one of the abusers of this mechanic.

I cannot think of any other synergy, other than Talons, that provides damage within an area and is not from an Ult, let alone one that can be self-synergized. The problem isn't the skill or what it does, the problem is self-synergy where you don't need coordination with a group member to activate.

If you're calling this "skilled" or "unique" mechanics then there should be A LOT of mechanics returned to classes that were deemed "unfair advantages" for them. If the ability were not able to be self-synergized than I, IMO, would not call it unbalanced. But the fact is that ZOS purposely created it this way to sell the class - it will be nerfed eventually.

No, I don’t play a Necro.

Grave robber isn’t even one of the harder hitting synergies. Self synergizing isn’t the issue.

The class was deemed terrible by most players. Now some people adapted it and made it work, so people want it nerfed?

People are just being silly. The class needs fine tuning, things should be left as is and only nerfed as it’s core mechanics are being fixed.

Then you play with Necro bomber in your team or you don't enter Cyro at all. I usually run 24 man groups and stopped couple weeks ago. We got into a fight with DC at BRK. It was 8 man team of tanks and healers and 1 necro bomber. They deveated 2 AD zergs and 2 EP zergs. All unkillable full defence and then the necro bomb. Its dumb its stupid and kills fun enjoyable zerg vs zerg fights. But you go on and defend and think again why casualls leave Cyro.

Was there any doubt that the moment a good zerg counter appears zergs would be unhappy?

Boneyard has 6m range. All you have to do to avoid getting bombed by a necro is not stack up in a blob. You can't crutch on your cross-healing that way? Good. We need more skills like that to encourage blobs to spread out or die.

Again it will be the end of casuall gaming in Cyro. And they don't kill them at once, get like 5 players at once, and keep preventing resses, every time 5 or more players are together bomb them. We tried playing around the necro bomber and succeed, but it required so much yelling and directions of leaders its boring, not appealing for me at all. And looking at the complaineds and people dropping out in my zerg guild I know many feel the same.

Fighting against unkillable teams especially if you cannot get together and stack but all need to spread and 1 mistake many die and getting back from that will be very hard is not fun to do everyday. So why bother. Maybe I am wrong and majority thinks this is awesome for me I think this is the end for Cyro until this is altered enough it isn't so OP and skill less. And yes that makes me sad as I think its fun to have large groups organised, good at siege, enough heals and stacked and roaming the map with me as crown. With necro bomb its like, spread out, do not cordinated, try meatbag if space, do not follow them in keeps small spaces, only tanks of flags and most likely we loss go to otherside of the map see if we can find a group vs group fight no multi bombers again, oke log off who wants to join BG?

lol

We need more game mechanics that punish people for stacking up and having poor positioning, not less. "Moshpit fights" or pure "brawls" are in my book examples of bad PvP.

The increased zerg-fests is what´s killing PvP, not organized small/medium groups. Just accept that you and the other faction got outplayed by this DC group and move on maybe? And it´s not like it´s impossible to improve to counter these groups either (assuming your group is motivated enough to do so). And god forbid there´s a counter to blob groups like yours. Numbers shouldn´t be the main factor deciding the outcome of a fight.

What will stop Zergs is to optimize the game. Right now with lag there are a lot of abilities that just don’t work, mainly stamina abilities.

When the game was working better groups like Fengrush’s group did well. Now it’s primarily mag with prox det, eye of the storm, harmony builds. Once the game’s fixed the game will rebalance a lot of things on its own.

When you get two groups fighting and one can’t use a lot of their abilities what do you think is going to happen? Right now boneyard works, so people think it’s OP.

WreckfulAbandon

Imo Harmony should deal increased damage that scales based on players hit by the synergy, not a flat amount. 3 jewelry traits is actually a low opportunity cost for the massive increase in damage and then it would be an actual anti-zerg option rather than something that can also be used on a group who is outnumbered.

Dojohoda

I see necro running around rock cracks or tower, healing itself, with enemies in tow. It's not long before it drops death on them.

I think to myself, "that's a badass move". I don't follow necro, I keep my distance. If I am not paying attention and get caught up in that trap, I smack myself to say, "Wake up you fool."

WoppaBoem

Dojohoda wrote: »

I see necro running around rock cracks or tower, healing itself, with enemies in tow. It's not long before it drops death on them.

I think to myself, "that's a badass move". I don't follow necro, I keep my distance. If I am not paying attention and get caught up in that trap, I smack myself to say, "Wake up you fool."

The necro teams I encounter don't run, they attack us, being shielded by stacked healers and tanks.

sharquez

100% in the camp that zerg busting ultimates/ synergies should be in the game.

Necro bomber, Bombblade, Overload sorc, Bashcro, Nova bomb, Proxy leap, etc. should be fight defining when correctly used.

Ultimates and time based abilities should be stalemate breaking abilities that get the fight moving in one direction or the other, otherwise we just have endless slogging.

Games like Overwatch, LoL, & DotA all do a good job of providing a fulfilling experience for players when they play well and coordinate in teamfights.

Unfortunately they have controlled teamsizes, and role restricted support abilities, and we do not which means that something needs to be adjusted to compensate for that. So being able to nuke a problem group that's clumping up is one way to solve that problem.

Dojohoda

WoppaBoem wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dojohoda wrote: »

I see necro running around rock cracks or tower, healing itself, with enemies in tow. It's not long before it drops death on them.

I think to myself, "that's a badass move". I don't follow necro, I keep my distance. If I am not paying attention and get caught up in that trap, I smack myself to say, "Wake up you fool."

The necro teams I encounter don't run, they attack us, being shielded by stacked healers and tanks.

I was referring to the solo necro who lures players into bottlenecks. To your point of view, I too am familiar with the organized groups. I don't play in one but we have some on PC NA. They've been around for years and always find cool new ways to kill the players that get in their path. They are damn annoying and they know it.

JinxxND

If there wasn't counter play then yea it would be a lil over tuned but the fact they are giving up 3 arcane/infused spell damage etc for a single skill aoe skill that you can literally attack them from the outside of it because of the small radius. You have to stand inside the small aoe that causes breach/fracture usually get hit with it after the ult and stay in the boneyard aoe while the hit the synergy. Too many ways to avoid this skill for it to be nerfed and right now one of the only ways to kill zergs thru healing spam. Need more tools like this in the game.

If they were able to line all that up and lure you into the trap it's a good play on the necro's part esp outside of group play.

WoppaBoem

JinxxND wrote: »

If there wasn't counter play then yea it would be a lil over tuned but the fact they are giving up 3 arcane/infused spell damage etc for a single skill aoe skill that you can literally attack them from the outside of it because of the small radius. You have to stand inside the small aoe that causes breach/fracture usually get hit with it after the ult and stay in the boneyard aoe while the hit the synergy. Too many ways to avoid this skill for it to be nerfed and right now one of the only ways to kill zergs thru healing spam. Need more tools like this in the game.

If they were able to line all that up and lure you into the trap it's a good play on the necro's part esp outside of group play.

I simply disagree zergs need counter coming from 1 single player. It should and comes from multiple players that are coordinated. But never the less with this in game zerg play is ended for me, will grieve some did it with pleasure but move on.