Nerf mount stamina

Salix_alba

NO there are already walking simulators on the gaming market. that MGS guy even made one that's kinda like a video game version of the premise of the film the postman.

TBois

Salix_alba wrote: »

NO there are already walking simulators on the gaming market. that MGS guy even made one that's kinda like a video game version of the premise of the film the postman.

Is there an opportunity for the postman to get into a street brawl or chased by a dog? Because that would be a more interesting walking simulator and that is what the OP is asking for, compared to the horse sim we have now especially after the most recent changes in which your mount goes slower than before and there is little risk of anything spontaneous happening.

TBois

Test

Edit: Well apparently the mods don't like this thread. New responses are not bumping it to the first position in this specific forum and in the recent discussions section.

Rahar

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

zDan wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

I mostly agree since I deal with this way more than the average person, but maybe reducing mount stamina isn't the way to deal with this, since the effects of getting knocked off pretty much mean certain death?

Just apply a snare debuff like overland NPCs do when you get hit on a mount to encourage dismounting and responding.

Also, I find it really hard to understand the underlying message people against this are saying. It contradicts itself. You're in a PvP zone to get PvP points, but you want to ignore PvP?

That would be a good idea! And thank you, someone on here with some actual brains, all I'm doing is trying to get some outnumbered fights away from the keeps which seem to be the hotspot for lag and game crashes.

I typically set myself up in between contested keeps and try to find trouble. I'm not particularly looking for the outnumbered fights, just a fight. The snare wouldn't have to be massive or long lasting in order to give me more of a chance to deal some damage, just 30% or so for 1 second, applied on light attacks or something.

I just don't think that people riding solo to keeps should be able to just ignore solo PvP in a PvP oriented zone, no matter how many days you've clicked a button consecutively.

So...you set up between contested keeps, knowing that people are going back and forth intending to PVP at those objectives, and yet earlier you say the people who don't engage you are ignoring PVP?

I think your later statement here is more accurate: they are avoiding solo PVP, and I'd suggest that's in large part because the PVP fights they will get at their objective is a whole lot more rewarding, especially in terms of AP, than dealing with a random ganker in the middle of a field.


That being said, I'm not a huge fan of the mount stamina changes from a gameplay perspective. I think its clear they were implemented more for performance reasons and ZOS didn't really take mounted combat into account as much as they should have. I'd be fine to going back to what we had before the change. On the other hand, I've been blasting past gankers on the way to fights at PVP objectives since long before the mount stamina change, so the reasoning of "solo players shouldn't be able to ignore solo PVP" falls flat for me.

Yeah, I'm not really sure why you chose to use ganker here. Typically I'm on a pretty balanced build and enjoy it a lot more when people get off their mounts and attempt to engage me after I deal a bit of damage to them, and it's rare if I actually blow them up in one to a few hit(s).

Regardless, what I meant to emphasize is that if you're not in a group that will ride with you and defend you while you get to your keep (i.e., you're solo), there should be an understanding that you might be engaged in solo PvP, which is no more or less valid than your group PvP. And in my opinion, it shouldn't be easy to ignore any kind of PvP in Cyro -- in spite of how it's been in the past. You should be threatened when a competent damage dealer is attempting to do damage to you on your mount and you shouldn't have an easy getaway every single time.

Also, killing a single player by yourself that's been alive longer than a few minutes tends to give you around 2k AP. That's ~1/3 of a keep capture and more than a camp capture. So on the contrary, it's pretty rewarding.

VaranisArano

You know, I do rather appreciate the additional context that you guys are using balanced builds and looking for actual fights once you've gotten someone off their mount. Personally, I tend to lump everyone who spams attacks when I ride by under the umbrella of "ganker, good or bad" hence why I've been using the term. Especially when there's no way of telling the difference between a "I'm a hide and seek nightblade" and your "I really want a fair, stand up fight" style from just being attacked on my mount as I ride by. Schroedinger's enemy?

To make things clear at the risk of repeating myself, I understand the desire to go "hey, stop and fight me" at solo players passing by.
I've also stated I'd be fine with reverting the mount stamina changes that make it harder for you to force players to stop and fight you. I rode past gankers and "I just wanna small scale in between keeps" players before the mount stamina change too.

I mostly responded in the first place to point out that there are perfectly valid reasons for PVPers to avoid engaging in a 1v1 with a random player in between keeps beyond "I'm scared to die" or "I want to avoid PVP". Even if it is a "I just want a fair, small scale fight" type guy.

In any case, now that the conversation has gotten substantially less baity, I suspect that everyone is perfectly aware of those valid reasons and is happy to continue playing as they want. In which case, more power to you.

Freakin_Hytte

If you enjoy solo fights, why not go to a dueling area if imperial City is empty? That's what I always do and people that duel are often better than most cyrodiil players and therefore much more fun to fight.

I understand your frustration, but a lot of people in cyrodiil are there because they want to enjoy group fights and not random 1v1 in the middle of nowhere. Running away from solo players in the middle have been going on forever in cyro, cudos to them if it's easier since they don't want to fight you, isn't it more fun to fight against people that actually want to fight you?

Rahar

VaranisArano wrote: »

You know, I do rather appreciate the additional context that you guys are using balanced builds and looking for actual fights once you've gotten someone off their mount. Personally, I tend to lump everyone who spams attacks when I ride by under the umbrella of "ganker, good or bad" hence why I've been using the term. Especially when there's no way of telling the difference between a "I'm a hide and seek nightblade" and your "I really want a fair, stand up fight" style from just being attacked on my mount as I ride by. Schroedinger's enemy?

To make things clear at the risk of repeating myself, I understand the desire to go "hey, stop and fight me" at solo players passing by.
I've also stated I'd be fine with reverting the mount stamina changes that make it harder for you to force players to stop and fight you. I rode past gankers and "I just wanna small scale in between keeps" players before the mount stamina change too.

I mostly responded in the first place to point out that there are perfectly valid reasons for PVPers to avoid engaging in a 1v1 with a random player in between keeps beyond "I'm scared to die" or "I want to avoid PVP". Even if it is a "I just want a fair, small scale fight" type guy.

In any case, now that the conversation has gotten substantially less baity, I suspect that everyone is perfectly aware of those valid reasons and is happy to continue playing as they want. In which case, more power to you.

I'm glad we could reach a somewhat-agreement. But there are a few things I wanted to add.

It's completely valid to have a reason to want to avoid 1v1 fights. If I made an insinuation to the contrary, it wasn't intended. The problem arises when it becomes far too easy to do so -- when riding past a solo fair fight guy has no risk because you have enough HP and enough stamina to just keep going at full speed, knowing he can't deal enough damage to kill you by the time you're out of range or keep up. It's bland and unexciting when there's no risk involved... to at least one party, if not both.

That's why I wanted a way to combat this a little bit. A small snare on hit would be enough, as I detailed above, because I keep up for a little longer and a little bit more HP and stamina is required, and suddenly, nothing's a given and there's a chase or a fight involved.

Rahar

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

If you enjoy solo fights, why not go to a dueling area if imperial City is empty? That's what I always do and people that duel are often better than most cyrodiil players and therefore much more fun to fight.

I understand your frustration, but a lot of people in cyrodiil are there because they want to enjoy group fights and not random 1v1 in the middle of nowhere. Running away from solo players in the middle have been going on forever in cyro, cudos to them if it's easier since they don't want to fight you, isn't it more fun to fight against people that actually want to fight you?

Because part of the enjoyment is the element of surprise. A 1v1 can turn into a 2v3 or a 1v5 or whatever else.

And because guaranteed 1v1s tend to open themselves up to massive amounts of exploitation and annoyance. Ever seen a list of rules for a ESO dueling tournament?

Freakin_Hytte

Rahar wrote: »

Freakin_Hytte wrote: »

If you enjoy solo fights, why not go to a dueling area if imperial City is empty? That's what I always do and people that duel are often better than most cyrodiil players and therefore much more fun to fight.

I understand your frustration, but a lot of people in cyrodiil are there because they want to enjoy group fights and not random 1v1 in the middle of nowhere. Running away from solo players in the middle have been going on forever in cyro, cudos to them if it's easier since they don't want to fight you, isn't it more fun to fight against people that actually want to fight you?

Because part of the enjoyment is the element of surprise. A 1v1 can turn into a 2v3 or a 1v5 or whatever else.

And because guaranteed 1v1s tend to open themselves up to massive amounts of exploitation and annoyance. Ever seen a list of rules for a ESO dueling tournament?

Ah alright that's fair. I usually just take a resource or go into a keep ua and bait people to the walls.
That give me more success rather than hunting riders going somewhere between keeps.

Yes I've been quite a few so I know the common rules, but a lot people that like duels and are at those areas also take part in tournaments and after a while you'll know most people that duel and therefore recognize the ones that use cheesebuilds.

VaranisArano

Rahar wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You know, I do rather appreciate the additional context that you guys are using balanced builds and looking for actual fights once you've gotten someone off their mount. Personally, I tend to lump everyone who spams attacks when I ride by under the umbrella of "ganker, good or bad" hence why I've been using the term. Especially when there's no way of telling the difference between a "I'm a hide and seek nightblade" and your "I really want a fair, stand up fight" style from just being attacked on my mount as I ride by. Schroedinger's enemy?

To make things clear at the risk of repeating myself, I understand the desire to go "hey, stop and fight me" at solo players passing by.
I've also stated I'd be fine with reverting the mount stamina changes that make it harder for you to force players to stop and fight you. I rode past gankers and "I just wanna small scale in between keeps" players before the mount stamina change too.

I mostly responded in the first place to point out that there are perfectly valid reasons for PVPers to avoid engaging in a 1v1 with a random player in between keeps beyond "I'm scared to die" or "I want to avoid PVP". Even if it is a "I just want a fair, small scale fight" type guy.

In any case, now that the conversation has gotten substantially less baity, I suspect that everyone is perfectly aware of those valid reasons and is happy to continue playing as they want. In which case, more power to you.

I'm glad we could reach a somewhat-agreement. But there are a few things I wanted to add.

It's completely valid to have a reason to want to avoid 1v1 fights. If I made an insinuation to the contrary, it wasn't intended. The problem arises when it becomes far too easy to do so -- when riding past a solo fair fight guy has no risk because you have enough HP and enough stamina to just keep going at full speed, knowing he can't deal enough damage to kill you by the time you're out of range or keep up. It's bland and unexciting when there's no risk involved... to at least one party, if not both.

That's why I wanted a way to combat this a little bit. A small snare on hit would be enough, as I detailed above, because I keep up for a little longer and a little bit more HP and stamina is required, and suddenly, nothing's a given and there's a chase or a fight involved.

Sounds good. It does sound like ZOS adjusted the mount stamina a bit too much in favor of the rider when they made their changes in comparison to how it was before. Hopefully they can come to a compromise between their performance needs and still supporting combat vs mounted riders in Cyrodiil.

TBois

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You know, I do rather appreciate the additional context that you guys are using balanced builds and looking for actual fights once you've gotten someone off their mount. Personally, I tend to lump everyone who spams attacks when I ride by under the umbrella of "ganker, good or bad" hence why I've been using the term. Especially when there's no way of telling the difference between a "I'm a hide and seek nightblade" and your "I really want a fair, stand up fight" style from just being attacked on my mount as I ride by. Schroedinger's enemy?

To make things clear at the risk of repeating myself, I understand the desire to go "hey, stop and fight me" at solo players passing by.
I've also stated I'd be fine with reverting the mount stamina changes that make it harder for you to force players to stop and fight you. I rode past gankers and "I just wanna small scale in between keeps" players before the mount stamina change too.

I mostly responded in the first place to point out that there are perfectly valid reasons for PVPers to avoid engaging in a 1v1 with a random player in between keeps beyond "I'm scared to die" or "I want to avoid PVP". Even if it is a "I just want a fair, small scale fight" type guy.

In any case, now that the conversation has gotten substantially less baity, I suspect that everyone is perfectly aware of those valid reasons and is happy to continue playing as they want. In which case, more power to you.

I'm glad we could reach a somewhat-agreement. But there are a few things I wanted to add.

It's completely valid to have a reason to want to avoid 1v1 fights. If I made an insinuation to the contrary, it wasn't intended. The problem arises when it becomes far too easy to do so -- when riding past a solo fair fight guy has no risk because you have enough HP and enough stamina to just keep going at full speed, knowing he can't deal enough damage to kill you by the time you're out of range or keep up. It's bland and unexciting when there's no risk involved... to at least one party, if not both.

That's why I wanted a way to combat this a little bit. A small snare on hit would be enough, as I detailed above, because I keep up for a little longer and a little bit more HP and stamina is required, and suddenly, nothing's a given and there's a chase or a fight involved.

Sounds good. It does sound like ZOS adjusted the mount stamina a bit too much in favor of the rider when they made their changes in comparison to how it was before. Hopefully they can come to a compromise between their performance needs and still supporting combat vs mounted riders in Cyrodiil.

Yea it seems they just focused on the performance improvement aspect from what they have said about it while not considering how mounted riding affects cyrodiil. It's not like they released a set that favors mounted combat, adept rider set, without considering how useful it would be within their mount system [sarcasm].

VaranisArano

TBois wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You know, I do rather appreciate the additional context that you guys are using balanced builds and looking for actual fights once you've gotten someone off their mount. Personally, I tend to lump everyone who spams attacks when I ride by under the umbrella of "ganker, good or bad" hence why I've been using the term. Especially when there's no way of telling the difference between a "I'm a hide and seek nightblade" and your "I really want a fair, stand up fight" style from just being attacked on my mount as I ride by. Schroedinger's enemy?

To make things clear at the risk of repeating myself, I understand the desire to go "hey, stop and fight me" at solo players passing by.
I've also stated I'd be fine with reverting the mount stamina changes that make it harder for you to force players to stop and fight you. I rode past gankers and "I just wanna small scale in between keeps" players before the mount stamina change too.

I mostly responded in the first place to point out that there are perfectly valid reasons for PVPers to avoid engaging in a 1v1 with a random player in between keeps beyond "I'm scared to die" or "I want to avoid PVP". Even if it is a "I just want a fair, small scale fight" type guy.

In any case, now that the conversation has gotten substantially less baity, I suspect that everyone is perfectly aware of those valid reasons and is happy to continue playing as they want. In which case, more power to you.

I'm glad we could reach a somewhat-agreement. But there are a few things I wanted to add.

It's completely valid to have a reason to want to avoid 1v1 fights. If I made an insinuation to the contrary, it wasn't intended. The problem arises when it becomes far too easy to do so -- when riding past a solo fair fight guy has no risk because you have enough HP and enough stamina to just keep going at full speed, knowing he can't deal enough damage to kill you by the time you're out of range or keep up. It's bland and unexciting when there's no risk involved... to at least one party, if not both.

That's why I wanted a way to combat this a little bit. A small snare on hit would be enough, as I detailed above, because I keep up for a little longer and a little bit more HP and stamina is required, and suddenly, nothing's a given and there's a chase or a fight involved.

Sounds good. It does sound like ZOS adjusted the mount stamina a bit too much in favor of the rider when they made their changes in comparison to how it was before. Hopefully they can come to a compromise between their performance needs and still supporting combat vs mounted riders in Cyrodiil.

Yea it seems they just focused on the performance improvement aspect from what they have said about it while not considering how mounted riding affects cyrodiil. It's not like they released a set that favors mounted combat without considering how useful it would be within their mount system [sarcasm].

Adept Rider? I always wondered if anyone actually wore that set.

TBois

VaranisArano wrote: »

TBois wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

You know, I do rather appreciate the additional context that you guys are using balanced builds and looking for actual fights once you've gotten someone off their mount. Personally, I tend to lump everyone who spams attacks when I ride by under the umbrella of "ganker, good or bad" hence why I've been using the term. Especially when there's no way of telling the difference between a "I'm a hide and seek nightblade" and your "I really want a fair, stand up fight" style from just being attacked on my mount as I ride by. Schroedinger's enemy?

To make things clear at the risk of repeating myself, I understand the desire to go "hey, stop and fight me" at solo players passing by.
I've also stated I'd be fine with reverting the mount stamina changes that make it harder for you to force players to stop and fight you. I rode past gankers and "I just wanna small scale in between keeps" players before the mount stamina change too.

I mostly responded in the first place to point out that there are perfectly valid reasons for PVPers to avoid engaging in a 1v1 with a random player in between keeps beyond "I'm scared to die" or "I want to avoid PVP". Even if it is a "I just want a fair, small scale fight" type guy.

In any case, now that the conversation has gotten substantially less baity, I suspect that everyone is perfectly aware of those valid reasons and is happy to continue playing as they want. In which case, more power to you.

I'm glad we could reach a somewhat-agreement. But there are a few things I wanted to add.

It's completely valid to have a reason to want to avoid 1v1 fights. If I made an insinuation to the contrary, it wasn't intended. The problem arises when it becomes far too easy to do so -- when riding past a solo fair fight guy has no risk because you have enough HP and enough stamina to just keep going at full speed, knowing he can't deal enough damage to kill you by the time you're out of range or keep up. It's bland and unexciting when there's no risk involved... to at least one party, if not both.

That's why I wanted a way to combat this a little bit. A small snare on hit would be enough, as I detailed above, because I keep up for a little longer and a little bit more HP and stamina is required, and suddenly, nothing's a given and there's a chase or a fight involved.

Sounds good. It does sound like ZOS adjusted the mount stamina a bit too much in favor of the rider when they made their changes in comparison to how it was before. Hopefully they can come to a compromise between their performance needs and still supporting combat vs mounted riders in Cyrodiil.

Yea it seems they just focused on the performance improvement aspect from what they have said about it while not considering how mounted riding affects cyrodiil. It's not like they released a set that favors mounted combat without considering how useful it would be within their mount system [sarcasm].

Adept Rider? I always wondered if anyone actually wore that set.

Yup, that's the one. It is completely useless especially since you cant remount in combat. Anyone even trying to use it would only be able to use it once in a fight.