Why are most of the nerco skills still bugged or bad designed?

Zer0oo

Really, why is there no communication for the dev side about how and when they will improve the skills.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_Gilliam , @ZOS_RichLambert

• the pets do not count as your healing(especial important in BG)
• the pet damage does not count as your damage (especial important in BG)
• you can break the tethers way too easy if you Line of Sight open world or in battle grounds (just move around some corner and it will break - bad design)
• pet can be LoSed (it will just do nothing)
• blast bone can be CCed and snared so it will be useless in big fights because of the many Aoe snares and ccs
• blast bones is useless in big grp fights because it will die before it can do any damage
• the tether gets removes if you have tethered an enemy corpse and he releases
• the pet does sometimes no healing at all and just stands around
• and many more

Juhasow

They should get rid of the corpse gameplay or atleast completly redesing it. It's so obnoxious and cluncky. Playability over fan service please.

TheTwistedRune

My feeling is because their design philosophy was flawed from the start. They were so focused on "not making it just like a sorcerer, but with undead pets" they went with some weird hybrid class that really doesn't play like a traditional necromancer at all. The corpse mechanic is good but the rest feels gimmicky and lacks direction, and a blatant rip off of Diablo's 3 necromancer. Not only that, the skills are nothing like the necromancer NPC's that exist in game. Those that we have are not thought out well IMO.

While my opinion on this is not popular, I feel the class needs overhauling into a proper pet class. Let us have a permanent pet, say an undead version of trash mobs that can't leave the zone, but retain all there abilities. How cool would that be?

Also get rid on that dumb bone colossus. It's a construct, not a metamorphosis. Let us have a some form of lich transformation, with an ability to conceal our true from for a short time to go in towns etc. It fits in well with the crime mechanic, and is more lore friendly.

Vasoka

I have never seen a worse necromancer class in any MMORPG or single player. That's why. The design is horrible.

Nemesis7884

i think its always a balancing act...on one hand people dont want standardization on the other hand being creative can create more issues and bugs...

CAB_Life

All of these issues—and more—have been brought forward to the team, most vociferously by Glory and I. That said, I’m not privy to any resolutions or high level design reworks (which it needs imo). Blastbones is bad, tethers are bad, the class requires resources that are both quick to expire and in demand for a number of their skills—this inhibits tactical play since you just use them or lose them. They’re supposed to be an “area denial” class, which is okay in PvE since mobs are dumb, but terrible in PvP since people—usually—aren’t.

I could go on regarding the class’s mechanical issues, but then there’s also the fact that it simply doesn’t feel or behave like a ‘traditional’ necro, nor does it even behave as do the NPCs in ESO. We could call this the “lived experience” if you will: what the player learns of and expects from the world as taught to us by the game/ developers. On that point, I believe myself and many other players experience cognitive dissonance. Why can some trash mob in Rivenspire command armies of permanent pets and undead and all my stuff is a glorified DoT that disappears in 8-16s?

L_Nici

The damage and healing by pets not counting as yours didn't really bothered me, even though I would like to know how much damage they do exactly against different opponents. The shown damage on the skill bar is not accurate at all.
Blastbones really needs improvement in way finding other that that I think its alright that it can get stunned and attacked, it deals big damage if it hits so you should be able to somehow prevent that.

NeillMcAttack

It is in their road map to address how pets function. I’m failry sure they are aware. And if we are to be optimistic, the soonest you may see an improvement is Q2 2020.

Zer0oo

@CAB_Life
No one knows anymore what the class reps did tell the devs or what not. There is no communication for ZOS at all and most class reps can not talk because of NDA. Remember the class rep meeting notes? There is nothing like that anymore.

For that they wanted to improve the communication to the player base, they did a really terrible job.

@L_Nici depends does it bother you that you get a worse score in a bg because the heal/damage does not count for you?
Does it bother you that some sets do not proc because it is not counted as your damage/heal?

L_Nici

@Zer0oo Which set should get procct by Blastbones you actually need in combat?

Also the points are not based on your blastbones hitting as your damage or not. Deal just a bit of damage in any way and you get an assist, or even Kill your opponent directly, if Blastbones kills them, I am pretty sure you get the kill anyway and with that the points.

In healing I get your point but not on the damage side.

Dark_Lord_Kuro

Zer0oo wrote: »

Really, why is there no communication for the dev side about how and when they will improve the skills.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_Gilliam , @ZOS_RichLambert

• the pets do not count as your healing(especial important in BG)
• the pet damage does not count as your damage (especial important in BG)
• you can break the tethers way too easy if you Line of Sight open world or in battle grounds (just move around some corner and it will break - bad design)
• pet can be LoSed (it will just do nothing)
• blast bone can be CCed and snared so it will be useless in big fights because of the many Aoe snares and ccs
• blast bones is useless in big grp fights because it will die before it can do any damage
• the tether gets removes if you have tethered an enemy corpse and he releases
• the pet does sometimes no healing at all and just stands around
• and many more

Because pvp is not important exept when the want to mess with pveer fun

Dark_Lord_Kuro

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

My feeling is because their design philosophy was flawed from the start. They were so focused on "not making it just like a sorcerer, but with undead pets" they went with some weird hybrid class that really doesn't play like a traditional necromancer at all. The corpse mechanic is good but the rest feels gimmicky and lacks direction, and a blatant rip off of Diablo's 3 necromancer. Not only that, the skills are nothing like the necromancer NPC's that exist in game. Those that we have are not thought out well IMO.

While my opinion on this is not popular, I feel the class needs overhauling into a proper pet class. Let us have a permanent pet, say an undead version of trash mobs that can't leave the zone, but retain all there abilities. How cool would that be?

Also get rid on that dumb bone colossus. It's a construct, not a metamorphosis. Let us have a some form of lich transformation, with an ability to conceal our true from for a short time to go in towns etc. It fits in well with the crime mechanic, and is more lore friendly.

The proble is that lich tranformation is a permanent thing

CAB_Life

Zer0oo wrote: »

@CAB_Life
No one knows anymore what the class reps did tell the devs or what not. There is no communication for ZOS at all and most class reps can not talk because of NDA. Remember the class rep meeting notes? There is nothing like that anymore.

For that they wanted to improve the communication to the player base, they did a really terrible job.

@L_Nici depends does it bother you that you get a worse score in a bg because the heal/damage does not count for you?
Does it bother you that some sets do not proc because it is not counted as your damage/heal?

Glory posted the notes, which I took in great detail, in their entirety on those forums, and I did a full video walk through of every bullet point. Pretty sure the other reps publicly discussed changes and whatnot as well via their social media. We are definitely communicating, though there haven’t been any recent meetings and therefor nothing to communicate.

dorogov.alexeyeb17_ESO

The saddest thing is ZoS nerfed necromancer two patches in a row than fix skills

Wifeaggro13

Vasoka wrote: »

I have never seen a worse necromancer class in any MMORPG or single player. That's why. The design is horrible.

Simply put and 100%true

Noxavian

CAB_Life wrote: »

All of these issues—and more—have been brought forward to the team, most vociferously by Glory and I. That said, I’m not privy to any resolutions or high level design reworks (which it needs imo). Blastbones is bad, tethers are bad, the class requires resources that are both quick to expire and in demand for a number of their skills—this inhibits tactical play since you just use them or lose them. They’re supposed to be an “area denial” class, which is okay in PvE since mobs are dumb, but terrible in PvP since people—usually—aren’t.

I could go on regarding the class’s mechanical issues, but then there’s also the fact that it simply doesn’t feel or behave like a ‘traditional’ necro, nor does it even behave as do the NPCs in ESO. We could call this the “lived experience” if you will: what the player learns of and expects from the world as taught to us by the game/ developers. On that point, I believe myself and many other players experience cognitive dissonance. Why can some trash mob in Rivenspire command armies of permanent pets and undead and all my stuff is a glorified DoT that disappears in 8-16s?

YES THANK YOU.

Please continue to try and tell the team about this.

I'm very glad you understand how bad it is to see LITERAL NOVICE NPCS raising the dead and controlling like 2-3 zombies or skeletons meanwhile I'm sitting here with the ability to not raise the dead at all? Like, I genuinely feel like the class would be so much better if instead of doing the things we currently do with corpses, we replace all corpse abilities with ones that raise a certain type of undead from a corpse. It always boggled my mind how we have a literal CORPSE MECHANIC but yet we don't raise any undead from corpses as pets/minions? Also personally I feel like either the tanking or healing skill line needs to be reworked into a pet-based one. A necromancer shouldn't be able to do all things imo. A healing necromancer just sounds very silly in both practice and on paper.

I'd really like to hear your opinion on this @CAB_Life!

karekiz

Noxavian wrote: »

It always boggled my mind how we have a literal CORPSE MECHANIC but yet we don't raise any undead from corpses as pets/minions? Also personally I feel like either the tanking or healing skill line needs to be reworked into a pet-based one. A necromancer shouldn't be able to do all things imo. A healing necromancer just sounds very silly in both practice and on paper.

I'd really like to hear your opinion on this @CAB_Life!

Those are scary words.

Pets? ESO? Forums?

REEEEEEEEE

TheFM

I gave up on necro, i see some people using it, but with the lag on eu server its near impossible to do anything to anyone who isnt lagging even harder.

SydneyGrey

I can't stand having to depend on corpses to heal myself. That ruins it for me. It just means that you never have that emergency healing when you need it. It's awful.

UntilValhalla13

I'm guessing they're already focused on the Skyrim update, ready to churn that out. Fixing stuff doesn't bring in new subscribers, unfortunately.

Canned_Apples

Zos necromancer is the biggest waste of money. class is complete garbage.

CAB_Life

Noxavian wrote: »

CAB_Life wrote: »

All of these issues—and more—have been brought forward to the team, most vociferously by Glory and I. That said, I’m not privy to any resolutions or high level design reworks (which it needs imo). Blastbones is bad, tethers are bad, the class requires resources that are both quick to expire and in demand for a number of their skills—this inhibits tactical play since you just use them or lose them. They’re supposed to be an “area denial” class, which is okay in PvE since mobs are dumb, but terrible in PvP since people—usually—aren’t.

I could go on regarding the class’s mechanical issues, but then there’s also the fact that it simply doesn’t feel or behave like a ‘traditional’ necro, nor does it even behave as do the NPCs in ESO. We could call this the “lived experience” if you will: what the player learns of and expects from the world as taught to us by the game/ developers. On that point, I believe myself and many other players experience cognitive dissonance. Why can some trash mob in Rivenspire command armies of permanent pets and undead and all my stuff is a glorified DoT that disappears in 8-16s?

YES THANK YOU.

Please continue to try and tell the team about this.

I'm very glad you understand how bad it is to see LITERAL NOVICE NPCS raising the dead and controlling like 2-3 zombies or skeletons meanwhile I'm sitting here with the ability to not raise the dead at all? Like, I genuinely feel like the class would be so much better if instead of doing the things we currently do with corpses, we replace all corpse abilities with ones that raise a certain type of undead from a corpse. It always boggled my mind how we have a literal CORPSE MECHANIC but yet we don't raise any undead from corpses as pets/minions? Also personally I feel like either the tanking or healing skill line needs to be reworked into a pet-based one. A necromancer shouldn't be able to do all things imo. A healing necromancer just sounds very silly in both practice and on paper.

I'd really like to hear your opinion on this @CAB_Life!

A number of suggestions were floated to the team: a permanent pet or two—or even a temporary horde ala WoW Death Knights. Re: healing. I don’t know why Necro healing doesn’t have more damage > steal health since that’s thematically much more in line with the concept of the transference/ theft/ manipulation of life-force. I‘ve mentioned to them the lack of the actual minor (or major?) lifesteal status effect in the basic Necro kit. This seems like a super strange oversight.

I also recently did an extensive write up of the collated complaints and suggestions of long time Necro players (I’ve been maining one of each type since the last Chapter’s launch for data collection reasons), and I’m just having Gina look over a few details before sending it off. I’ll be sure to post the results of any future, internal, feedback or discussions to which I’m privy as permitted.

Don’t give up on the class yet!

Zer0oo

@CAB_Life
Fair enough, but can you tell me if they are willing enough to make some changes to the class so it actually works better?

Right now no one knows if it is actually on the real todo play on ZOS to turn the necromancers into a working class or if they just think it is good enough just deal with it.

Trancestor

Warden (mainly magden, stamden is saved by weapon skills) is still a badly designed class after more than 2 years, it even only got worse with time, so don't expect anything else for necromancer.