Dizzy Swing: Overpowered? Or L2P Issue? Pre-Dragonhold

Abyssmol

Yes, D-Swing was OP.

Sergykid wrote: »

Abyssmol wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

No spamable,-uninterruptible burst skill should have a stun.

Not really a spammable to be fair , it has a 1 sec cast time.

.8 seconds- global cooldown is 1 second. Yes, spammable.

gcd starts after the cast time. What you say would mean that any 1 sec cast time ability can be spammed just like instant abilities. The only exception is the exploit Accelerating Drain where you cancel the channel after 1.5 seconds, gaining two ticks per gcd if spammed.

No GCD starts after you initiate the ability, not when it ends. The same way a proc works, the cooldown starts when the proc starts.

jadarock

Yes, D-Swing was OP.

cheifsoap wrote: »

It wasn't. People are just terrible at pvp and didn't know how to counter it. Now they're crying about the nerfed Dizzying Swing lol. This is definitely a l2p issue because there is no satisfying these kinds people.

Actually it's more like people got a new toy for short time that they should have never had and they still cant let it go like an ex gf

Iskiab

Yes, D-Swing was OP.

If you read the patch notes they were having issues with dizzy swing. They ended up leaving it overtuned and doing more damage then they intended. That’s why it caught on so much, those saying it wasn’t overtuned are just biased.

DTStormfox

No, D-Swing was not OP.

Judging an ability by its bugs or issues is not a fair way of looking at it, in my opinion.
Leaving all bugs and issues aside, I don't think Dizzying Swing was OP. The cast time on the ability left the caster vulnerable for a few seconds, completely open to attack. Also, because of the cast time it is easy to dodge or block. But again, that is leaving all bugs and issues aside.

Xzysts

No, D-Swing was not OP.

What ways can we make this skill still good and viable? Should we lower the damage a little more and lower the cast time/remove the cast time? Or should we leave it as is? I know a lot of people are concerned that mostly all of the abilities that are getting negative changes, will soon leave very little options to choose from. There are no spammables to pick from at all in the DW skill line unfortunately. They cost a lot of stamina to use in PvP and deal slightly less damage compared to 2h abilities. Could a new weapon skill line fill the void? Or could every class get its own Spammable?

Xzysts

No, D-Swing was not OP.

Marcus684 wrote: »

Are we so bored that we’re now making polls about what used to be?

No, just trying to get people to talk about skills rather than come to the forums and just call for blatant nerfs, which we all see frequently.

Abyssmol

Yes, D-Swing was OP.

Xzysts wrote: »

What ways can we make this skill still good and viable? Should we lower the damage a little more and lower the cast time/remove the cast time? Or should we leave it as is? I know a lot of people are concerned that mostly all of the abilities that are getting negative changes, will soon leave very little options to choose from. There are no spammables to pick from at all in the DW skill line unfortunately. They cost a lot of stamina to use in PvP and deal slightly less damage compared to 2h abilities. Could a new weapon skill line fill the void? Or could every class get its own Spammable?

I think ZOS should remove the cast time, decrease the damage just a bit, and bring to par all other spammables. And while we are talking about non-class skills, ZOS should bring to par all non-class dots. Why is that we have a non-class spammable so strong or even stronger than a class ability but yet the non-class dots are crap.

Goregrinder

Yes, D-Swing was OP.

Xzysts wrote: »

What ways can we make this skill still good and viable? Should we lower the damage a little more and lower the cast time/remove the cast time? Or should we leave it as is? I know a lot of people are concerned that mostly all of the abilities that are getting negative changes, will soon leave very little options to choose from. There are no spammables to pick from at all in the DW skill line unfortunately. They cost a lot of stamina to use in PvP and deal slightly less damage compared to 2h abilities. Could a new weapon skill line fill the void? Or could every class get its own Spammable?

It's already viable as is this patch. People still run it as a spammable on their 2H stam builds.

Rahar

Yes, D-Swing was OP.

DTStormfox wrote: »

Judging an ability by its bugs or issues is not a fair way of looking at it, in my opinion.
Leaving all bugs and issues aside, I don't think Dizzying Swing was OP. The cast time on the ability left the caster vulnerable for a few seconds, completely open to attack. Also, because of the cast time it is easy to dodge or block. But again, that is leaving all bugs and issues aside.

This is misinformation, put simply. You aren't left open for 'a few seconds', you're left open for 800ms (during the height of Dizzy's use). With ESO cast times, the only reaction possible in this short time frame would be to block it.

Please stop acting like 800ms of vulnerability on this game is an exploitable time frame or in any way constitutes 'risk'. The only risk attached to this skill was the risk of the recipient getting out of range but still receiving the attack.

Rahar

Yes, D-Swing was OP.

Xzysts wrote: »

What ways can we make this skill still good and viable? Should we lower the damage a little more and lower the cast time/remove the cast time? Or should we leave it as is? I know a lot of people are concerned that mostly all of the abilities that are getting negative changes, will soon leave very little options to choose from. There are no spammables to pick from at all in the DW skill line unfortunately. They cost a lot of stamina to use in PvP and deal slightly less damage compared to 2h abilities. Could a new weapon skill line fill the void? Or could every class get its own Spammable?

It is viable. What it isn't, currently, is fun. It's missing the visceral, hard-hitting feeling 2h users came to love.

My personal suggestion is to make one of the other weapon line skills combo with off-balance. For example, Brawler. Change the unused shield portion of the ability to a simple "stuns any opponent and deals more damage to them if they were off balance and not blocking, but consumes the effect", numbers nonwithstanding. Then you have a built-in combo on a weapon set and the heavy-hitter feeling back.

Honestly, more skills need to combo off one another instead of only working in a vacuum. This would be a good start with some number tweaking.

Xzysts

No, D-Swing was not OP.

Rahar wrote: »

Xzysts wrote: »

What ways can we make this skill still good and viable? Should we lower the damage a little more and lower the cast time/remove the cast time? Or should we leave it as is? I know a lot of people are concerned that mostly all of the abilities that are getting negative changes, will soon leave very little options to choose from. There are no spammables to pick from at all in the DW skill line unfortunately. They cost a lot of stamina to use in PvP and deal slightly less damage compared to 2h abilities. Could a new weapon skill line fill the void? Or could every class get its own Spammable?

It is viable. What it isn't, currently, is fun. It's missing the visceral, hard-hitting feeling 2h users came to love.

My personal suggestion is to make one of the other weapon line skills combo with off-balance. For example, Brawler. Change the unused shield portion of the ability to a simple "stuns any opponent and deals more damage to them if they were off balance and not blocking, but consumes the effect", numbers nonwithstanding. Then you have a built-in combo on a weapon set and the heavy-hitter feeling back.

Honestly, more skills need to combo off one another instead of only working in a vacuum. This would be a good start with some number tweaking.

Very insightful reply. It does need to feel more powerful and fun. Very well said.

Freakin_Hytte

No, D-Swing was not OP.

Karmanorway wrote: »

Xzysts wrote: »

@Karmanorway Yep, I am in the same boat. Instead I tried using DW since DSwing got nerfed, but Dual Wield just isnt the same. It takes up a lot of Stamina, and the dmg is appearing to be decreased.

I agree its way too expensive, i use the fear skill from FG skill line instead now. I swapped dizzy for carve and to 2h maelstrom, this makes up a bit for the loss. Just heavy cancel crit rush with poison applied gives almost the same dmg for me as old dizzy

Try to learn the medium weaving, took me a week and now I think dswing is better than before. Because now you have more control when you want to use your combo and still being able to spam your enemy.

NyassaV

Yes, D-Swing was OP.

It's OP just like getting stun from a stealth-ed sniper is OP

eovogtb16_ESO

No, D-Swing was not OP.

It is so incredibly easy to counter and Dodge or block there isn't really a debate. Anyone who thinks this move is op really isn't a very good player, sorry.

Unfadingsilence

No, D-Swing was not OP.

L2P issue

Rahar

Yes, D-Swing was OP.

eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »

It is so incredibly easy to counter and Dodge or block there isn't really a debate. Anyone who thinks this move is op really isn't a very good player, sorry.

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

L2P issue

1v1 me, bro.

jadarock

Yes, D-Swing was OP.

eovogtb16_ESO wrote: »

It is so incredibly easy to counter and Dodge or block there isn't really a debate. Anyone who thinks this move is op really isn't a very good player, sorry.

How much stam and stam recovery am I supposed to spec into as a non damage dealing healer?
You only get so many break free roll dodge or blocks on a mag char. What dont you get it that hit for 6-8k on a regular and was SPAMMED often by more than one person at a time. All it took was ONE to land and you were guaranteed a second and ulti.... gimmie a break bud
Not everyone is running around in these over healing ball groups or is on a stam toon....

Marcus684

The only way to beat a good WB spammer was to either LOS them or put them on the defensive and burst them down. You could only move through them so many times until they finally got lucky and knocked you down. At that point they could finish you off with an ult+executioner combo. Removing the knockback stun was the right call. It’s still a good spammable, just no longer overturned. This is coming from a stamDK main that made good use of WB back in the day.

Xzysts

No, D-Swing was not OP.

Marcus684 wrote: »

The only way to beat a good WB spammer was to either LOS them or put them on the defensive and burst them down. You could only move through them so many times until they finally got lucky and knocked you down. At that point they could finish you off with an ult+executioner combo. Removing the knockback stun was the right call. It’s still a good spammable, just no longer overturned. This is coming from a stamDK main that made good use of WB back in the day.

stun is ok, but I dont think the damage needed to be changed also. 16% just from running off-balance already is kinda silly

Emma_Overload

Yes, D-Swing was OP.

Abyssmol wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

Abyssmol wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

No spamable,-uninterruptible burst skill should have a stun.

Not really a spammable to be fair , it has a 1 sec cast time.

.8 seconds- global cooldown is 1 second. Yes, spammable.

gcd starts after the cast time. What you say would mean that any 1 sec cast time ability can be spammed just like instant abilities. The only exception is the exploit Accelerating Drain where you cancel the channel after 1.5 seconds, gaining two ticks per gcd if spammed.

No GCD starts after you initiate the ability, not when it ends. The same way a proc works, the cooldown starts when the proc starts.

This is correct. It is totally possible to spam Crystal Blast or Wrecking Blow every second after the first cast, because each cast cancels the latter portion of the animation of the previous cast.

Xzysts

No, D-Swing was not OP.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Abyssmol wrote: »

Sergykid wrote: »

Abyssmol wrote: »

Stratti wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

No spamable,-uninterruptible burst skill should have a stun.

Not really a spammable to be fair , it has a 1 sec cast time.

.8 seconds- global cooldown is 1 second. Yes, spammable.

gcd starts after the cast time. What you say would mean that any 1 sec cast time ability can be spammed just like instant abilities. The only exception is the exploit Accelerating Drain where you cancel the channel after 1.5 seconds, gaining two ticks per gcd if spammed.

No GCD starts after you initiate the ability, not when it ends. The same way a proc works, the cooldown starts when the proc starts.

This is correct. It is totally possible to spam Crystal Blast or Wrecking Blow every second after the first cast, because each cast cancels the latter portion of the animation of the previous cast.

same as snipe?