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Dizzy Swing: Overpowered? Or L2P Issue? Pre-Dragonhold
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jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, D-Swing was not OP.Goregrinder wrote: »I see tons of people complaining about how OP Templars and Sorcs are because they are everywhere right now...."OP Nerf Templar, every BG I go into half of them are Templars....." So the fact that so many people are playing Templar in Bg's is an indication of how OP it is? Oh really?
Well it's funny you should bring that form of logic to the table, because during Scalebreaker guess how many Stam builds were running Dizzy swing....
Everybody ran Dizzy because it was the only actually good spammable option for stam builds. 2 out of the 6 stamina classes in the game (stamsorc and stamcro) don't even have a proper class spammable (I don't count the scythe as a proper spammable for stamcro, since it costs way too much for a melee spammable).
Of the remaining 4 classes, 3 of them have underwhelming spammables or spammables that just don't match the class's playstyle (Surprise Attack was nerfed considerably which in combination with other NB nerfs has left it in a pretty *** spot, Cutting Dive doesn't synergise with stamden's bursty playstyle, and flaming poop fist is, well, flaming poop fist).
The only class with an actually good class spammable would be stamplar, and we already have people crying about jabs. Everybody ran Dizzy because either there actually is no alternatives, or the few alternatives that did exist were nerfed because people kept crying for them to be nerfed.If everyone used it then it was OP, and everyone did use it, 2H swinging everywhere!
Much better now. If you needed that KB crutch then its a L2P issue!
It was too easy to DS then when they were in the air pop an ult and execute interspersed with LA's or HA's.
Every stam build runs Vigor, is Vigor OP? No, because Vigor is the only good heal for most stamina classes. Just because something is common, doesn't mean it's OP. That's a stupid mindset that will drive the game into the ground, and it comes from a place of ignorance and inexperience.5 -
jadarock✭✭✭✭✭Yes, D-Swing was OP.Goregrinder wrote: »I see tons of people complaining about how OP Templars and Sorcs are because they are everywhere right now...."OP Nerf Templar, every BG I go into half of them are Templars....." So the fact that so many people are playing Templar in Bg's is an indication of how OP it is? Oh really?
Well it's funny you should bring that form of logic to the table, because during Scalebreaker guess how many Stam builds were running Dizzy swing....
Everybody ran Dizzy because it was the only actually good spammable option for stam builds. 2 out of the 6 stamina classes in the game (stamsorc and stamcro) don't even have a proper class spammable (I don't count the scythe as a proper spammable for stamcro, since it costs way too much for a melee spammable).
Of the remaining 4 classes, 3 of them have underwhelming spammables or spammables that just don't match the class's playstyle (Surprise Attack was nerfed considerably which in combination with other NB nerfs has left it in a pretty *** spot, Cutting Dive doesn't synergise with stamden's bursty playstyle, and flaming poop fist is, well, flaming poop fist).
The only class with an actually good class spammable would be stamplar, and we already have people crying about jabs. Everybody ran Dizzy because either there actually is no alternatives, or the few alternatives that did exist were nerfed because people kept crying for them to be nerfed.If everyone used it then it was OP, and everyone did use it, 2H swinging everywhere!
Much better now. If you needed that KB crutch then its a L2P issue!
It was too easy to DS then when they were in the air pop an ult and execute interspersed with LA's or HA's.
Every stam build runs Vigor, is Vigor OP? No, because Vigor is the only good heal for most stamina classes. Just because something is common, doesn't mean it's OP. That's a stupid mindset that will drive the game into the ground, and it comes from a place of ignorance and inexperience.
It's not ok having players running around desyncing/bugging other players with the games main stam spammable either bud.
Why did it have a longer cast time to begin with?
A jab sounds spammable right?
A "dizzying swing" or a "wrecking blow" sure sounds like it would have a wind up to me...
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Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, D-Swing was OP.Hah
I can't stop laughing. Dizzy got nerfed on top of Onslaught and DoTs and suddenly we have like 80% less "pro" players. Wonder why? Hard to play without broken skills?
I get it you liked it because even potatoes had a chance vs experienced players but it was unhealthy sheit. Nobody has taken away dizzy from you, it's still there. Stop saying it WAS only stam spamable. It still is, it's just no longer OP. You just need to use HA to stun someone or use literally the strongest cc in the game - turn evil. I know it's mind blowing to use more than 1 button, but I believe in you Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge7 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, D-Swing was not OP.It's not ok having players running around desyncing/bugging other players with the games main stam spammable either bud.
Then fix the desync/bugging? Don't know why when people are faced with skills that are buggy, they immediately jump to nerfing said skill, rather than y'know, fixing the bug. Really goes to show how "specially intelligent" this community can be.Why did it have a longer cast time to begin with?
A jab sounds spammable right?
A "dizzying swing" or a "wrecking blow" sure sounds like it would have a wind up to me...
Which it does. The 0.8 second cast time doesn't exist for no reason, y'know.
Oh, and the whole realism and real-world logic part doesn't make sense when, y'know, a stick can stop a massive maul from caving your chest in.Edited by jcm2606 on December 12, 2019 6:56AM1 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, D-Swing was not OP.Nobody has taken away dizzy from you, it's still there. Stop saying it WAS only stam spamable. It still is, it's just no longer OP.
You realise that this just proves that the entire reason Dizzy was used so much is because it was the only good spammable available to stam, right?
People still run Dizzy, because the alternatives are still garbage. Dizzy still remains the best spammable, even despite it being nerfed in the completely wrong way, because people can't stand not crying on the forums about the next thing that kills them.0 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, D-Swing was not OP.Oh, and by the way, I don't even use Dizzy. I rarely play stam in PvP, preferring mag classes/playstyles (namely magDK). So no, I'm not defending it because I use it, I'm defending it because I'd rather see more strong skills, not less.0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, D-Swing was OP.
What? You can hit 9 Dizies in 10 seconds and 10 Surprise attacks in 10 seconds. It is a spamable skill.
The skill is still extremely strong now. As you can do a heavy atack with dizzy and still stun the target. It just needs some skills now.Because I can!2 -
Nordic__Knights✭✭✭✭✭
✭It doesn't matter what it was its gone now . why relive the past ? This game needs to look forward to fixing performance of it not moving backwards!!!0 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭D swing was hitting like an ultimate with a stun attached if I was lagging even a little it was a ez rip I was even getting killed by groups of players who would just spam dizzy swing no other skill that was during the templar meta lol. Anyone who thinks this is ok just wants free ultimate spammable 😂Edited by Deathlord92 on December 12, 2019 10:24AM1 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭I even started using d swing on my stamblade for the lols I was hitting 10k crits on a lot of players lol0 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually stamblade all I play and I think d swing was a spammable ultimate to I was even using it and would hit a lot of players around 10k crit sometimes more lol 😂D-swing - a skill with a tool tip of 18k to 20k, spammable (.8 sec cast time), with knock back and a stun. It was meteor every second....
But is easily avoidable, walking through, dodging, renders the skill inconsistent. I think it is l2p. meteor you cant dodge or avoid other than block.
Are you kidding! Which skill is easily mitigated - meteor circle around you and sound that hits 3 seconds later and can easily be blocked, takes over a minute to use again. D-swing raise weapon and hit .8 seconds later that if blocked, walked through, or dodged would repeat again in 1 second, miss again hell repeat again. The key point is that it was a spammable that hit like a powerful ultimate and stun the target.
If you don't see how OP this is think of a meteor every second. Block the first one; rolldodge the second one; walk through the third one; and get hit by the fourth one.
While you are on the ground get hit one more time then execute.
Magicka characters could rolldodge maybe two times, be out of stamina by then, and soon after dead. Block maybe four times; or walkthrough maybe a few times before getting caught by the Dswing -Stamina character are generally faster than magicka so there is no walk through and avoid the damage everytime. To remind you, Damage that equates to a meteor. And once hit by the Dswing and stun, the second Dswing was a piece of cake to land.
I figure that most stamina players would be in favor of Dswing having a stun. Would they be in favor of every melee spammable magicka skill have a tool tip of 18k to 20k with a stun. I wonder? Imagine DK whip or templar sweeps with that tool tip and a stun....and please don't tell me that Dswing cannot have a 18k to 20k tool tip - Just watch a few isthr3reno1else videos on YouTube.
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No, D-Swing was not OP.Deathlord92 wrote: »
You still haven't showed me which melee single target ult hits like DS. Wating for it since October.0 -
Luede✭✭✭✭✭Yes, D-Swing was OP.the knockback stun was the broken part, if u had hit with a d.swing, the chances were rly high that u kill the target. and maybe u will not hit the first 2 d-swings, but people spam it the whole time, until u land ur combo and kill the oponent.1 -
jadarock✭✭✭✭✭Yes, D-Swing was OP.It's not ok having players running around desyncing/bugging other players with the games main stam spammable either bud.
Then fix the desync/bugging? Don't know why when people are faced with skills that are buggy, they immediately jump to nerfing said skill, rather than y'know, fixing the bug. Really goes to show how "specially intelligent" this community can be.Why did it have a longer cast time to begin with?
A jab sounds spammable right?
A "dizzying swing" or a "wrecking blow" sure sounds like it would have a wind up to me...
Which it does. The 0.8 second cast time doesn't exist for no reason, y'know.
Oh, and the whole realism and real-world logic part doesn't make sense when, y'know, a stick can stop a massive maul from caving your chest in.
1. Zos obviously cant fix the bug. How hard is it to understand that you cant buff a skill make it the bis all while knowing it also bugs people out ? That's fun for the user and nobody else. The game is fun when there is counter play involved with lag often times you didnt get that chance.
2.AGAIN Why did dswing have a longer cast time to begin with?
It's really convenient how everyone that's for dswing ignores that it WAS NOT healthy gameplay smh
I honestly cant believe people are defending that bs style of play. These are the same people who say that viper/veli/selene proc meta was garbage because you could delete people with little to no counter play.
Spam dswing till you land ONE one more into ulti and then execute it's really no different in my book.
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Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, D-Swing was OP.Nobody has taken away dizzy from you, it's still there. Stop saying it WAS only stam spamable. It still is, it's just no longer OP.
You realise that this just proves that the entire reason Dizzy was used so much is because it was the only good spammable available to stam, right?
People still run Dizzy, because the alternatives are still garbage. Dizzy still remains the best spammable, even despite it being nerfed in the completely wrong way, because people can't stand not crying on the forums about the next thing that kills them.
No mate, people still run dizzy because it hits like no other SPAMABLE skill, it is still BiS, just without broken knockback.
Ok let's reverse dizzy to U23, but destro staff clench gets replaced by exact copy of dizzy just based on magicka. Same range, cast time (not interruptible), same cost and damage. We have a deal? I'll gladly take such "garbage" skill even now without knockback.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge4 -
Cirantille✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes, D-Swing was OP.I voted yes, just because it was buggy.
I would be fine with it you could break free from it.1 -
jadarock✭✭✭✭✭Yes, D-Swing was OP.^Exactly May
It's the same reason why snipe was prevalent .
It was the hardest hitting skill in the tree by far except for the ulti it had a cast time and stunned from stealth but the main issue is that it desynced the opponent.
The skill was complained about and rightfully so
Oh the hypocrisy of these leet players.....1 -
MCBIZZLE300✭✭✭✭✭No, D-Swing was not OP.They should have just lowered the damage and kept the stun, i dont even play eso anymore because all of my builds used dizzy and i hate the new version.0 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
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Imagine me spamming dawnbreaker on you that was d swing 😂Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Deathlord92 wrote: »
You still haven't showed me which melee single target ult hits like DS. Wating for it since October.
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Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
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My SA was nerfed it’s only fair d swing took the bat as wellChilly-McFreeze wrote: »Deathlord92 wrote: »
You still haven't showed me which melee single target ult hits like DS. Wating for it since October.
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cheifsoap✭✭✭✭✭No, D-Swing was not OP.It wasn't. People are just terrible at pvp and didn't know how to counter it. Now they're crying about the nerfed Dizzying Swing lol. This is definitely a l2p issue because there is no satisfying these kinds people.1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭No, D-Swing was not OP.Deathlord92 wrote: »
My SA was nerfed it’s only fair d swing took the bat as wellChilly-McFreeze wrote: »Deathlord92 wrote: »
You still haven't showed me which melee single target ult hits like DS. Wating for it since October.
Got it. Not that I expected anything else.0 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, D-Swing was OP.
gcd starts after the cast time. What you say would mean that any 1 sec cast time ability can be spammed just like instant abilities. The only exception is the exploit Accelerating Drain where you cancel the channel after 1.5 seconds, gaining two ticks per gcd if spammed.-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube0 -
StaticWave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No, D-Swing was not OP.If ZOS unnerfed SnB and Duelwield next patch, I can assure you that dizzying swing wouldn't be BiS anymore.Edited by StaticWave on December 13, 2019 2:42AMPlatform:
PC NA
Main:
Static Wave - AD stamsorc2