Dswing VS Snipe

DCZergNoob

Before you start jumping to instant conclusions let me say something. This is NOT a nerf thread or a buff thread, both these abilities have multiple counters to them and only to the rare occasions did experienced small scale players lose a fight soley because of it. ( I cannot stress that enough) Now

Dswing: High risk high reward (Especially in a 1vx situation)
Snipe: No risk high reward, Can be used in stealth
Dswing: Gets nerfed
Snipe: Stays the same
Both abilities: Could stun
Both abilities: Had a cast time
One ability had a high range
One ability was melee
One Could get you dozens of kills before you were exposed out of stealth
One could guarantee hit+Ult+Execute combo
One sometimes literally refuses to go off in laggy situations, can be countered simply by walking through the person casting it

So, if high risk high reward ability gets nerfed, then why does no risk high reward stay as it is: Well I'm going to tell you

ZOS wanted to give us more reasons to use our class abilities over Dswing Due to growing class identity, so you nerfed it. But the reason why we took Dswing in the first place is still there. So then inevitably: Tank meta comes back. Then they release a set that gives a constant 500 weapon damage and the only downside it being 5% increase to everything AND its crafted, which with certain passives and glyphs, is easily counter able. There is a new video by a certain youtuber that explains more called "NERF IT ALL" go watch it

This just gives me more reason ZOS are catering more and more to players who dont want to put time and effort to get better in like we did. Easier ways to DPS & Survive better

DCZergNoob

Oh and ontop of all that, Snipeblades are so common these days because of how much of a headache an actual stamblade is to play this patch, so yeah

Heimpai

Well my stamplar does hit 14k snipes consistently without building into it..I don't see any issues

JobooAGS

DCZergNoob wrote: »

Oh and ontop of all that, Snipeblades are so common these days because of how much of a headache an actual stamblade is to play this patch, so yeah

The increase of snipeblades maybe due to the overwhelming negative forum view of how nbs were treated this patch with a few core nb skills

Luede

DCZergNoob wrote: »

So, if high risk high reward ability gets nerfed, then why does no risk high reward stay as it is: Well I'm going to tell you

5.0.5
Reduced the cast time of this ability and its morphs to 1 second from 1.1 seconds.
Reduced the damage dealt by 25% to make up for the removal of the post global noted earlier.
Increased the travel speed of the arrow to put it in line with other projectiles.
Lethal Arrow (morph): This morph now applies Minor Defile, rather than Major Defile. This was done since the morph already has another bonus, the guaranteed chance to apply the Poisoned status effect.
Focused Aim (morph): This morph no longer increases the range in which your allies can hit the target. Instead, it reduces the cost by 5% and increases the range by 5 meters. Note that Minor Fracture remains.

ChunkyCat

It’s all a Deep State conspiracy meant to keep you perpetually T-Bagged by a noob stam blade.

TequilaFire

Not a nerf thread. lmao

Starlight_Knight

How you've managed to make any similarities between these 2 skills is beyond me.
Not a nerf thread lol

MartiniDaniels

Buff dizzy and dots back (as well as Surprise attack and several other abilities).

chrightt

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Buff dizzy and dots back (as well as Surprise attack and several other abilities).

Lmao funnier than “not a nerf thread”. On the topic, it’s not like snipe is no risk high reward for every class. Do you see snipe used in 1v1 with that sweet 1s cast time? Seems to me the issue is more of a NB thread cause you can perpetually stealth. Where are the other 5 classes sniping As I’ve said before, NB is carried by shadowy disguise atm and that is just the truth. Add fatigue to cloak and buff NB’s other skills sounds like a better way to fix the problem.

Then again the average forum joe would say that’s nerfing NBs and Q.Q ensues.

WreckfulAbandon

I have a better idea. Let's keep Snipe strong so we all have plenty of bow users to beat up on.

Deathlord92

Before d swing nerfs I preferred dying to snipe desync reasons why d swing would hit me through objects, it would sometimes hit me from snipe range, it sometimes stun me very awkwardly so I’d be sliding on the floor leaving me vulnerable for follow up attacks and it hit like an ultimate with a stun attached if I was lagging even a little bit a good player could literally easily kill me with d swing 2h ultimate light attack execute.

Deathlord92

D swing was easy mode and deserves its nerfs especially as I was seeing groups of players just spamming it on me.

Stebarnz

D-swing fine, Snipe fine, Sort cloak out to no invis and we good!

I get hit by a snipe, I turn to where a NB is loading another up, I DR toward the NB who is around 30m away and they cloak away, they don't even want to fight!

Worst gameplay currently!

Rianai

Most snipe blades (ganker in general) can't cloak much. Sneak is much more broken in this regard, because it basically allows for free perma stealth, so there is no way to know a sniper/ganker is nearby before getting hit and they always get to choose when to engage without having to take any risks and without having to worry about resource management/sustain. For gankers Cloak is mostly a tool to get back into sneak easier.

Kadoin

Dizzy swing change is not the reason for the "resurgence" of the tank meta that never left.

EDIT: Also, you forgot snipe can be interrupted.

Toc de Malsvi

Players: “Bow main bar is trash and you are bad for using it.”

Also players: “Snipe is OP and should be nerfed.”

Some people won’t be happy unless bows are removed from the game. Further as pointed out by other players here, Snipe really isn’t a “problem” without cloak. That’s if you even consent to if being a problem.

Ganker kills 3 scrubs before being caught and blown up in a single GCD. Or ganker stalks a group of good players and lands a kill on one after waiting a long time for an appropriate opening. This is supposedly a problem and unfair.

Meanwhile the “good” players run a meta build and roflstomp 3 scrubs at the same time, and walk away from opposing groups despite being caught in the open and outnumbered. “Good” players rake in disproportionate AP but occasionally dying to the “trash” Snipe spammer is a “problem”.

I’ll give you this: Snipe is OP when facing scrubs.

xxthir13enxx

TequilaFire wrote: »

Not a nerf thread. lmao

lol To be fair...it’s more of a...
“Why’d you Nerf me and Not the Other guy?”


And the issue with Snipe isn’t the Skill itself..
It’s the fact that it’s not working as intended and hasn’t for Years.
The desync has nothing to do with cloak or class... anyone can do it...it’s just more likely to lead to a desync kill in the hands of a sNB.

It needs to be Fixed
ZoS has acknowledged it needs Fixing
It will likely be fixed
When they figure out How to fix it.

JobooAGS

xxthir13enxx wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Not a nerf thread. lmao

lol To be fair...it’s more of a...
“Why’d you Nerf me and Not the Other guy?”


And the issue with Snipe isn’t the Skill itself..
It’s the fact that it’s not working as intended and hasn’t for Years.
The desync has nothing to do with cloak or class... anyone can do it...it’s just more likely to lead to a desync kill in the hands of a sNB.

It needs to be Fixed
ZoS has acknowledged it needs Fixing
It will likely be fixed
When they figure out How to fix it.

Best way to fix it is to completely rework it entirely. Like literally delete it and go to the drawing board as what kind of (competitive) spammable bow should have.

ArchMikem

ChunkyCat wrote: »

It’s all a Deep State conspiracy meant to keep you perpetually T-Bagged by a noob stam blade.

I'd rather get bagged by a noob that got lucky than a veteran tryhard who just rubs it in.

Raudgrani

Who dies from Snipe? Seriously? Isn't it hard to even admit? Only Snipe deaths I've had for the +6 last months, have been the "desync" ones. And I can easily count those on one friggin hand. They don't even hit hard. It's so 2016 to still complain about Snipe. FFS, the useless players needs some way to get an occasional kill too.

When I played last time some 2-3 months ago, literally EVERY death had Harmony jewelry powered Graveyards and or Novas in them. Snipe? NONE.

Xzysts

As a Dswing user I couldn't agree more. D-Swing was not an overpowered ability nor did anyone even care until Onslaught came out with the new changes. Onslaught needs a tune, I don't know what exactly, but it should not pen for your full resistance after landing it. Id say it should scale to half. It is kinda broken, I don't really die to it at all, but when 4 people hit you with it and then they all fully penetrate your armor, its kinda cheese. Anyways back to D-Swing if you are even a somewhat competent player, you would be skilled to know that it is very easy to counter and avoid. My friend thought it needed a nerf and always died to it he told me, how come I never had a problem? Learn to play issue is all it is. Same with Templar's I'll give you all a huge tip... if you are behind a Templar when they are jabbing, it DOES NOT damage you. Same principal with D-Swing. Just walk through them, it is very simple, effective, and game changing.

Xzysts

Also, if they just keep nerfing spammables, soon we will have none left. D-Swing is barely worth it now, and for some of us we have no replacement abilities because our class does not offer them. This goes back to why I think ZOS should add in a full fledged magic tree for each type of Magic the game offers, so that we can have more morphs for Stam users in our classes. If you guys want an explanation of what I mean by full fledged magic skill lines, go read my forum post about changes I'd like o see and read the second paragraph. I think it would be a great idea.

Olupajmibanan

ZoS simply can't realize: noob-bashing won't stop by taking away noob-bashing abilities.

Smol_Bat

People think getting hit by a chonky snipe is a problem when they actually don't realize that in order to do such damage the ganker has to sacrifice survivability and regen a lot, and its getting more and more common because nightblade as a whole is in a terrible place right now

DKs can be tanky and deal insane amounts of damage while herding a bunch of enemy players around, flat out ignoring most damage thrown at them for a really long time and that somehow is not a problem.

Templars can heal from 5% to 100% in a GCD a WHILE being tanky WHILE dealing insane damage WHILE healing others and that's somehow not a problem.

Wardens have access to almost every single minor and major buff in the game PLUS a purge plus a really strong burst (and a spammable major breach/fracture ability) and that is somehow not a problem.

Necromancers have access to Major vulnerability which allows them and their group to build extra super tanky AND STILL deal insane amounts of aoe damage and that's somehow not a problem.

Sorcerers have access the best shields and the best burst in the entire game plus the best aoe burst heal from matriarch AND the best mobility skill in the entire bloody game WHICH IS ALSO AN UNBLOCKABLE AOE STUN, and that's SOMEHOW not a problem. (although stamsorcs are in a rough spot as well)

Meanwhile Nightblades have been loosing class identity and access to their once unique buffs and debuffs and even skills, like minor endurance and minor berserk from Relentless Focus, now instead of having to wear slimecrawl other classes (unless you're a warden) can just put on camouflaged hunter, a fighters guild ability that also increases your weapon damage, and minor endurance can be obtained from rally. Nightblades also lost major breach and fracture from their spammable, although the 5% resistance ignore is not that bad but its still worse. They also lost major defile and the stun from their ULTIMATE, debuffs that other classes still have access to. And the one thing that made nightblades unique besides cloak and shadow was the ability to fear enemies, now that is also available to every class in the game and its arguably a better ability than the og fear since it costs stamina and gives weapon damage AND minor protection. The changes to ultimates also affect this class way more than others because their burst is reliant on hitting incap and bow one after the other, but both of those abilities can be dodge and blocked and incap can be interrupted.

All of this is driving more and more nightblades to turn into full on gankers, the class was already build around the concept of ganking and ambushing but these changes affect the very core of that concept, if you pay attention to how a nightblade 1vx's you'll notice that they cant facetank damage like other classes even if they're built for that, 1vxing as a nightblade requires you to separate a group and kill them 1 by one, while all the other classes can just face tank damage and kill several players at once, and while it can be effective you can get overwhelmed really easy as a nightblade, and since cloak is such a VITAL PART of their skillset, being now needed to stun others a simple detect potion becomes a dead sentence.

But somehow snipe is the problem.

Stebarnz

Smol_Bat wrote: »

People think getting hit by a chonky snipe is a problem when they actually don't realize that in order to do such damage the ganker has to sacrifice survivability and regen a lot, and its getting more and more common because nightblade as a whole is in a terrible place right now

DKs can be tanky and deal insane amounts of damage while herding a bunch of enemy players around, flat out ignoring most damage thrown at them for a really long time and that somehow is not a problem.

Templars can heal from 5% to 100% in a GCD a WHILE being tanky WHILE dealing insane damage WHILE healing others and that's somehow not a problem.

Wardens have access to almost every single minor and major buff in the game PLUS a purge plus a really strong burst (and a spammable major breach/fracture ability) and that is somehow not a problem.

Necromancers have access to Major vulnerability which allows them and their group to build extra super tanky AND STILL deal insane amounts of aoe damage and that's somehow not a problem.

Sorcerers have access the best shields and the best burst in the entire game plus the best aoe burst heal from matriarch AND the best mobility skill in the entire bloody game WHICH IS ALSO AN UNBLOCKABLE AOE STUN, and that's SOMEHOW not a problem. (although stamsorcs are in a rough spot as well)

Meanwhile Nightblades have been loosing class identity and access to their once unique buffs and debuffs and even skills, like minor endurance and minor berserk from Relentless Focus, now instead of having to wear slimecrawl other classes (unless you're a warden) can just put on camouflaged hunter, a fighters guild ability that also increases your weapon damage, and minor endurance can be obtained from rally. Nightblades also lost major breach and fracture from their spammable, although the 5% resistance ignore is not that bad but its still worse. They also lost major defile and the stun from their ULTIMATE, debuffs that other classes still have access to. And the one thing that made nightblades unique besides cloak and shadow was the ability to fear enemies, now that is also available to every class in the game and its arguably a better ability than the og fear since it costs stamina and gives weapon damage AND minor protection. The changes to ultimates also affect this class way more than others because their burst is reliant on hitting incap and bow one after the other, but both of those abilities can be dodge and blocked and incap can be interrupted.

All of this is driving more and more nightblades to turn into full on gankers, the class was already build around the concept of ganking and ambushing but these changes affect the very core of that concept, if you pay attention to how a nightblade 1vx's you'll notice that they cant facetank damage like other classes even if they're built for that, 1vxing as a nightblade requires you to separate a group and kill them 1 by one, while all the other classes can just face tank damage and kill several players at once, and while it can be effective you can get overwhelmed really easy as a nightblade, and since cloak is such a VITAL PART of their skillset, being now needed to stun others a simple detect potion becomes a dead sentence.

But somehow snipe is the problem.

I agree, a rework of cloak is needed! Invis needs to go then the rest of the class can be brought inline.

Aliyavana

Killing bow... users is an art style. You don't die to snipe, but to multiple snipe users.

Mr_Walker

Deathlord92 wrote: »

D swing was easy mode and deserves its nerfs especially as I was seeing groups of players just spamming it on me.

LOL try it with aussie ping, and it ends up a colossal failure. So bad I took it off my skill bar.

DCZergNoob

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

D swing was easy mode and deserves its nerfs especially as I was seeing groups of players just spamming it on me.

LOL try it with aussie ping, and it ends up a colossal failure. So bad I took it off my skill bar.

this ^

DCZergNoob

Raudgrani wrote: »

Who dies from Snipe? Seriously? Isn't it hard to even admit? Only Snipe deaths I've had for the +6 last months, have been the "desync" ones. And I can easily count those on one friggin hand. They don't even hit hard. It's so 2016 to still complain about Snipe. FFS, the useless players needs some way to get an occasional kill too.

When I played last time some 2-3 months ago, literally EVERY death had Harmony jewelry powered Graveyards and or Novas in them. Snipe? NONE.

Pretty sure i said that experienced players only died to it in rare occasions in the OP, if even

And no, useless players should put in the time and effort to make themselves not so much useless, not take the easy way of everything and staying useless for the rest of there time in ESO, thatss why there useless

Aliyavana

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

D swing was easy mode and deserves its nerfs especially as I was seeing groups of players just spamming it on me.

LOL try it with aussie ping, and it ends up a colossal failure. So bad I took it off my skill bar.

everything is bad with aussie ping, lol