NeillMcAttack wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »The roll dodge speed boost is ok outside of PVP, and I can see how it would be much better in PVP. The penetration boost is goofy, but again really geared towards PVP since PVE content has a fairly low soft cap for pen. The detection 'bonus' can only work* in PVP. For PVE the entire passive can be skipped and you'd never miss it. That makes its a garbage passive.nesakinter wrote: »@WrathOfInnos Bosmer is one of the BiS PvP stamina races right now. Majority stamina builds are actually either Nord or Bosmer with Orc coming third. That roll passive is huge in PvP.
*This is a very generous use of the word 'work' since you are still much better off using active skills or potions to detect other hidden players. The Way of Air set is decon trash for a reason.
It’s the 250 stam recovery (before major/minor buffs) that makes it the best class currently. The sustain changes have made it more difficult for DPS and players are finding that it’s just easier to maintain a rotation on them, so much so that it trumps the extra weapon damage of other classes.
WrathOfInnos wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Good to see another racial passives complaint.
Nothing changed since February:
1. Breton and orc definitive BiS for PVE. Especially orc, plainly much better then all other stamina races.
2. Lore problems for argonians and bosmers. What's most funny is that there are ton in-game dialogs where argonians are described as protected from poisons and bosmers are sneaky..
3. Devs updated healing done set bonuses but didn't updated them for argonians, because they are afraid of return of immortal argonians... while they are ok with natural stacking of mist+undeath...
4. Bosmer penetration on roll-dodge passive is useless in PVE. Just keep speed bonus to roll-dodge and move penetration with decreased value (750-950) to permanent bonuses.
5. For PVP races are balanced nicely.
Overall, changes were not so bad and races are not so shoe-horned to different roles as before.. so just few tweaks could've solve all problems, but they needed to sell adventure pack and then that huge pack of everything for 2k... so go p2orc or enjoy 5% less dps.
I really like your point 4. Bosmer having permanent Physical Penetration would be great. I don’t even think the current value of 1500 would be overpowered compared to the stat density on Orc right now. For a hypothetical comparison of Orc vs Bosmer with this change:
- 258 Weap Dmg vs 258 Stam Recov, both 2 standard set bonuses but Orc’s is objectively better
- 2000 Stam vs 2000 Stam, exactly the same
- 1000 Health vs 1500 Physical Penetration, both about 1 standard set bonus with Bosmer getting the offensive and Orc defensive for this one
- Sprint Speed + Sprint Cost + Self Healing vs Detection + Poison Resist + Dodge Speed, all situational, mainly for flavor and PVP utility, fairly balanced
One additional option could be to make it 1500 Physical and Spell Pen. This would have virtually no impact on meta builds or racial balance, while giving more options to those that want to cast spells on Bosmer.
They could maybe drop it down to around 1200 Pen, or 80% of the standard bonus of 1487. Because Orc’s 1000 Health is only 83% of a standard 1206 Health set bonus. 750-950 would be too weak IMO.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Good to see another racial passives complaint.
Nothing changed since February:
1. Breton and orc definitive BiS for PVE. Especially orc, plainly much better then all other stamina races.
2. Lore problems for argonians and bosmers. What's most funny is that there are ton in-game dialogs where argonians are described as protected from poisons and bosmers are sneaky..
3. Devs updated healing done set bonuses but didn't updated them for argonians, because they are afraid of return of immortal argonians... while they are ok with natural stacking of mist+undeath...
4. Bosmer penetration on roll-dodge passive is useless in PVE. Just keep speed bonus to roll-dodge and move penetration with decreased value (750-950) to permanent bonuses.
5. For PVP races are balanced nicely.
Overall, changes were not so bad and races are not so shoe-horned to different roles as before.. so just few tweaks could've solve all problems, but they needed to sell adventure pack and then that huge pack of everything for 2k... so go p2orc or enjoy 5% less dps.
I really like your point 4. Bosmer having permanent Physical Penetration would be great. I don’t even think the current value of 1500 would be overpowered compared to the stat density on Orc right now. For a hypothetical comparison of Orc vs Bosmer with this change:
- 258 Weap Dmg vs 258 Stam Recov, both 2 standard set bonuses but Orc’s is objectively better
- 2000 Stam vs 2000 Stam, exactly the same
- 1000 Health vs 1500 Physical Penetration, both about 1 standard set bonus with Bosmer getting the offensive and Orc defensive for this one
- Sprint Speed + Sprint Cost + Self Healing vs Detection + Poison Resist + Dodge Speed, all situational, mainly for flavor and PVP utility, fairly balanced
One additional option could be to make it 1500 Physical and Spell Pen. This would have virtually no impact on meta builds or racial balance, while giving more options to those that want to cast spells on Bosmer.
They could maybe drop it down to around 1200 Pen, or 80% of the standard bonus of 1487. Because Orc’s 1000 Health is only 83% of a standard 1206 Health set bonus. 750-950 would be too weak IMO.
Yes, I'm ok with 1200 I just know that some people may enrage about any buff, so I used 950 as value which looks lesser, you know like 999 on price tags
MartiniDaniels wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Good to see another racial passives complaint.
Nothing changed since February:
1. Breton and orc definitive BiS for PVE. Especially orc, plainly much better then all other stamina races.
2. Lore problems for argonians and bosmers. What's most funny is that there are ton in-game dialogs where argonians are described as protected from poisons and bosmers are sneaky..
3. Devs updated healing done set bonuses but didn't updated them for argonians, because they are afraid of return of immortal argonians... while they are ok with natural stacking of mist+undeath...
4. Bosmer penetration on roll-dodge passive is useless in PVE. Just keep speed bonus to roll-dodge and move penetration with decreased value (750-950) to permanent bonuses.
5. For PVP races are balanced nicely.
Overall, changes were not so bad and races are not so shoe-horned to different roles as before.. so just few tweaks could've solve all problems, but they needed to sell adventure pack and then that huge pack of everything for 2k... so go p2orc or enjoy 5% less dps.
I really like your point 4. Bosmer having permanent Physical Penetration would be great. I don’t even think the current value of 1500 would be overpowered compared to the stat density on Orc right now. For a hypothetical comparison of Orc vs Bosmer with this change:
- 258 Weap Dmg vs 258 Stam Recov, both 2 standard set bonuses but Orc’s is objectively better
- 2000 Stam vs 2000 Stam, exactly the same
- 1000 Health vs 1500 Physical Penetration, both about 1 standard set bonus with Bosmer getting the offensive and Orc defensive for this one
- Sprint Speed + Sprint Cost + Self Healing vs Detection + Poison Resist + Dodge Speed, all situational, mainly for flavor and PVP utility, fairly balanced
One additional option could be to make it 1500 Physical and Spell Pen. This would have virtually no impact on meta builds or racial balance, while giving more options to those that want to cast spells on Bosmer.
They could maybe drop it down to around 1200 Pen, or 80% of the standard bonus of 1487. Because Orc’s 1000 Health is only 83% of a standard 1206 Health set bonus. 750-950 would be too weak IMO.
Yes, I'm ok with 1200 I just know that some people may enrage about any buff, so I used 950 as value which looks lesser, you know like 999 on price tags
MartiniDaniels wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Good to see another racial passives complaint.
Nothing changed since February:
1. Breton and orc definitive BiS for PVE. Especially orc, plainly much better then all other stamina races.
2. Lore problems for argonians and bosmers. What's most funny is that there are ton in-game dialogs where argonians are described as protected from poisons and bosmers are sneaky..
3. Devs updated healing done set bonuses but didn't updated them for argonians, because they are afraid of return of immortal argonians... while they are ok with natural stacking of mist+undeath...
4. Bosmer penetration on roll-dodge passive is useless in PVE. Just keep speed bonus to roll-dodge and move penetration with decreased value (750-950) to permanent bonuses.
5. For PVP races are balanced nicely.
Overall, changes were not so bad and races are not so shoe-horned to different roles as before.. so just few tweaks could've solve all problems, but they needed to sell adventure pack and then that huge pack of everything for 2k... so go p2orc or enjoy 5% less dps.
I really like your point 4. Bosmer having permanent Physical Penetration would be great. I don’t even think the current value of 1500 would be overpowered compared to the stat density on Orc right now. For a hypothetical comparison of Orc vs Bosmer with this change:
- 258 Weap Dmg vs 258 Stam Recov, both 2 standard set bonuses but Orc’s is objectively better
- 2000 Stam vs 2000 Stam, exactly the same
- 1000 Health vs 1500 Physical Penetration, both about 1 standard set bonus with Bosmer getting the offensive and Orc defensive for this one
- Sprint Speed + Sprint Cost + Self Healing vs Detection + Poison Resist + Dodge Speed, all situational, mainly for flavor and PVP utility, fairly balanced
One additional option could be to make it 1500 Physical and Spell Pen. This would have virtually no impact on meta builds or racial balance, while giving more options to those that want to cast spells on Bosmer.
They could maybe drop it down to around 1200 Pen, or 80% of the standard bonus of 1487. Because Orc’s 1000 Health is only 83% of a standard 1206 Health set bonus. 750-950 would be too weak IMO.
Yes, I'm ok with 1200 I just know that some people may enrage about any buff, so I used 950 as value which looks lesser, you know like 999 on price tagsMartiniDaniels wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Good to see another racial passives complaint.
Nothing changed since February:
1. Breton and orc definitive BiS for PVE. Especially orc, plainly much better then all other stamina races.
2. Lore problems for argonians and bosmers. What's most funny is that there are ton in-game dialogs where argonians are described as protected from poisons and bosmers are sneaky..
3. Devs updated healing done set bonuses but didn't updated them for argonians, because they are afraid of return of immortal argonians... while they are ok with natural stacking of mist+undeath...
4. Bosmer penetration on roll-dodge passive is useless in PVE. Just keep speed bonus to roll-dodge and move penetration with decreased value (750-950) to permanent bonuses.
5. For PVP races are balanced nicely.
Overall, changes were not so bad and races are not so shoe-horned to different roles as before.. so just few tweaks could've solve all problems, but they needed to sell adventure pack and then that huge pack of everything for 2k... so go p2orc or enjoy 5% less dps.
I really like your point 4. Bosmer having permanent Physical Penetration would be great. I don’t even think the current value of 1500 would be overpowered compared to the stat density on Orc right now. For a hypothetical comparison of Orc vs Bosmer with this change:
- 258 Weap Dmg vs 258 Stam Recov, both 2 standard set bonuses but Orc’s is objectively better
- 2000 Stam vs 2000 Stam, exactly the same
- 1000 Health vs 1500 Physical Penetration, both about 1 standard set bonus with Bosmer getting the offensive and Orc defensive for this one
- Sprint Speed + Sprint Cost + Self Healing vs Detection + Poison Resist + Dodge Speed, all situational, mainly for flavor and PVP utility, fairly balanced
One additional option could be to make it 1500 Physical and Spell Pen. This would have virtually no impact on meta builds or racial balance, while giving more options to those that want to cast spells on Bosmer.
They could maybe drop it down to around 1200 Pen, or 80% of the standard bonus of 1487. Because Orc’s 1000 Health is only 83% of a standard 1206 Health set bonus. 750-950 would be too weak IMO.
Yes, I'm ok with 1200 I just know that some people may enrage about any buff, so I used 950 as value which looks lesser, you know like 999 on price tags
Don’t forget about redguards, within IDEAL situations only 380 UNSCALABLE Stam regen (950 every 5 seconds) and pigeon holed into using weapon skills to get the most out of their passives meaning your builds are limited severely.
Taleof2Cities wrote: »Lughlongarm wrote: »monkey36948 wrote: »The Racial Passives should become a completely new system where the race is just a cosmetic change and the passives are there own skill tree that are separate from you being that race so that you can cosmetically be a Breton but skill wise you have orc passives so you can use that toon as a stamina dps
i know several people that are not having optimal setups because they want to change there long running toon to still look the same
i feel like the easiest fix for this problem would be to change the crown store appearance token to what the race change is now and change the race change to a skill change for racial passives
As a player Coming from GW2, I'm 100% against your suggestion.
As a player coming from prior Elder Scrolls games, I’m also 100% against the suggestion.
You can clear the vast majority of the content in ESO using any race-class-role combination.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Good to see another racial passives complaint.
Nothing changed since February:
1. Breton and orc definitive BiS for PVE. Especially orc, plainly much better then all other stamina races.
2. Lore problems for argonians and bosmers. What's most funny is that there are ton in-game dialogs where argonians are described as protected from poisons and bosmers are sneaky..
3. Devs updated healing done set bonuses but didn't updated them for argonians, because they are afraid of return of immortal argonians... while they are ok with natural stacking of mist+undeath...
4. Bosmer penetration on roll-dodge passive is useless in PVE. Just keep speed bonus to roll-dodge and move penetration with decreased value (750-950) to permanent bonuses.
5. For PVP races are balanced nicely.
Overall, changes were not so bad and races are not so shoe-horned to different roles as before.. so just few tweaks could've solve all problems, but they needed to sell adventure pack and then that huge pack of everything for 2k... so go p2orc or enjoy 5% less dps.
I really like your point 4. Bosmer having permanent Physical Penetration would be great. I don’t even think the current value of 1500 would be overpowered compared to the stat density on Orc right now. For a hypothetical comparison of Orc vs Bosmer with this change:
- 258 Weap Dmg vs 258 Stam Recov, both 2 standard set bonuses but Orc’s is objectively better
- 2000 Stam vs 2000 Stam, exactly the same
- 1000 Health vs 1500 Physical Penetration, both about 1 standard set bonus with Bosmer getting the offensive and Orc defensive for this one
- Sprint Speed + Sprint Cost + Self Healing vs Detection + Poison Resist + Dodge Speed, all situational, mainly for flavor and PVP utility, fairly balanced
One additional option could be to make it 1500 Physical and Spell Pen. This would have virtually no impact on meta builds or racial balance, while giving more options to those that want to cast spells on Bosmer.
They could maybe drop it down to around 1200 Pen, or 80% of the standard bonus of 1487. Because Orc’s 1000 Health is only 83% of a standard 1206 Health set bonus. 750-950 would be too weak IMO.
Yes, I'm ok with 1200 I just know that some people may enrage about any buff, so I used 950 as value which looks lesser, you know like 999 on price tagsMartiniDaniels wrote: »WrathOfInnos wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »Good to see another racial passives complaint.
Nothing changed since February:
1. Breton and orc definitive BiS for PVE. Especially orc, plainly much better then all other stamina races.
2. Lore problems for argonians and bosmers. What's most funny is that there are ton in-game dialogs where argonians are described as protected from poisons and bosmers are sneaky..
3. Devs updated healing done set bonuses but didn't updated them for argonians, because they are afraid of return of immortal argonians... while they are ok with natural stacking of mist+undeath...
4. Bosmer penetration on roll-dodge passive is useless in PVE. Just keep speed bonus to roll-dodge and move penetration with decreased value (750-950) to permanent bonuses.
5. For PVP races are balanced nicely.
Overall, changes were not so bad and races are not so shoe-horned to different roles as before.. so just few tweaks could've solve all problems, but they needed to sell adventure pack and then that huge pack of everything for 2k... so go p2orc or enjoy 5% less dps.
I really like your point 4. Bosmer having permanent Physical Penetration would be great. I don’t even think the current value of 1500 would be overpowered compared to the stat density on Orc right now. For a hypothetical comparison of Orc vs Bosmer with this change:
- 258 Weap Dmg vs 258 Stam Recov, both 2 standard set bonuses but Orc’s is objectively better
- 2000 Stam vs 2000 Stam, exactly the same
- 1000 Health vs 1500 Physical Penetration, both about 1 standard set bonus with Bosmer getting the offensive and Orc defensive for this one
- Sprint Speed + Sprint Cost + Self Healing vs Detection + Poison Resist + Dodge Speed, all situational, mainly for flavor and PVP utility, fairly balanced
One additional option could be to make it 1500 Physical and Spell Pen. This would have virtually no impact on meta builds or racial balance, while giving more options to those that want to cast spells on Bosmer.
They could maybe drop it down to around 1200 Pen, or 80% of the standard bonus of 1487. Because Orc’s 1000 Health is only 83% of a standard 1206 Health set bonus. 750-950 would be too weak IMO.
Yes, I'm ok with 1200 I just know that some people may enrage about any buff, so I used 950 as value which looks lesser, you know like 999 on price tags
Don’t forget about redguards, within IDEAL situations only 380 UNSCALABLE Stam regen (950 every 5 seconds) and pigeon holed into using weapon skills to get the most out of their passives meaning your builds are limited severely.
Yeah, redguards are exactly in the same boat as bosmers (snare reduce is barely useful in PVE).. if it were me, I'll bring in such changes:
- bosmer -> flat penetration instead of roll-dodge one. ~1200
- redguard -> + 600 maxstamina
- khajiit -> +2% crit damage
- imperial -> + 500 health (to increase synergy with lava foot soup and also even out tanking abilities with nord)
- dunmer -> leave as is
- orc -> -1000 health but +180 health recovery
Oh, and argonian - +128 SD/WD as compensation for healing done buff, which lizzies didn't received
In previous elder scrolls games, racials were only important in the beginning to midgame. By endgame, racials were practically to completely obsolete.
In previous elder scrolls games, racials were only important in the beginning to midgame. By endgame, racials were practically to completely obsolete.
Most of them, except Breton's magic resistance. That one is truly the reason why most TES builds are always Breton.
Anyway, here I think is balanced overall. Some tweaks should help
I wish we could choose another race skill line with out changing the appareance of our characters
Some people may reply:
BuT tHeN eVeRyOnE wIlL Be UsInG tHe sAmE PaSsIvEs
And you are not wrong.. but that only shows the imbalance in racial passives, if they get rid of them, i would not miss them.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »In previous elder scrolls games, racials were only important in the beginning to midgame. By endgame, racials were practically to completely obsolete.
Most of them, except Breton's magic resistance. That one is truly the reason why most TES builds are always Breton.
Anyway, here I think is balanced overall. Some tweaks should help
Yeah, Breton was OP. Especially in Morrowind, where you can use boots of blinding speed from the very beginning and then after savior's hide theft you just super fast without downsides...
In Skyrim too, it gave ability to reach resistance cap very fast...
I guess this is good old TES tradition to make Breton best race in terms of overall package
PC USStraight out of Mo- uh, oh wait. Um... Ebonheart, I guess?
WrathOfInnos wrote: »I’ve always liked the lore behind races and meaningful differences between them.
While this sounds nice, it is absolutely unbalanceable. Also, the racial passives as they are and will be force the players to select a specific race for a specific build. So sorry no Altmer swordsmen or archers, and no Nord mages etc. While we know that you can make an suboptimal Altmer swordsman character, it will be SUBOPTIMAL and as most MMOs you will sooner or later want to be optimal to have best results and therefore be welcome in group play.
What the OP suggets (and I and certainly others have suggested some time ago) means you will create a character with your own mix of talents and it is a good idea.