Heavy armor in pvp

DRTE

My question is there a need for it in PvP? Do we need tanks in PvP? tanks that can output a very close amount of damage compared to light or medium. IMO no we do not. you come to PvP to fight not bash your head against someone with high resists, high heals, high damage.

My suggestion allow the set items on jewelry weapons but the player cannot wear 5 piece into PvP zones. Max 2 for undaunted passive.
This would be a very unpopular decision coming from the current meta of things but would stop all the tank meta in its tracks for the most part. I do understand there are light sets that can cause resists as high as heavy but they would not get all the healing passives to carry them to safety.

Heavy armor and damage should not be in the same sentence.

Time to see all the hate from this post lets goooooo.

Spartabunny08

7th legion... lol probably not the game for you huh.

Inb4 chunky cat... wait for it.

DRTE

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

7th legion... lol probably not the game for you huh.

what? be more specific in what you're trying to say. your comment makes no sense.

Spartabunny08

DRTE wrote: »

show previous quotes

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

7th legion... lol probably not the game for you huh.

what? be more specific in what you're trying to say. your comment makes no sense.

Seriously... pretty sure I'm not the problem here lol

amir412

You think heavy armor is the problem?
Im at light armor , sitting at max resists with 3.6k sd and 44k max mag, 1k hp regen,

My stam sorc? Haha, nice one,
Med armor, 6.2k WD, 28k physical and spell resist without blood spawn, 1k hp regen.

[Edit to remove flaming]

TequilaFire

Vampires mist forming around LOS objects is more of a problem.
Mist form should cost way more than it does.

Cirantille

I use all light armour, now hate me

Jk aside, I play non-cp and their resources dry quickly if they go heavy. Like I had this fight with a blocker last night, and until his/her stam ran out he/she just blocked, not even attack
Then still ded
Just burst and push until they can not block
Also their damage is eh

usmguy1234

I guarantee you'd see a lot more glass cannon type builds in pvp if the game didn't run like hot garbage.

ketsparrowhawk

Nobody in Bislobo's stream chat liked your idea so you bring it to the forums?

Nobody wants to have build options taken away. No way the community at-large would not be okay with such a heavy-handed and disruptive change.

And heavy armor by itself is not responsible for the supposed "tank meta". It's just one of many options a player has when trying to balance sustain vs damage vs survivability within their build. Even if heavy armor was totally deleted from the game, you'd still run into unkillable players. In fact, many of the "tanks" you speak of are likely not even wearing heavy armor this patch.

IMHO it's 1h/shield that is over-performing. My proposed solution? Only allow players to equip a 1h wep -OR- a shield in PVP zones.. not both. See? Silly right?

jadarock

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I guarantee you'd see a lot more glass cannon type builds in pvp if the game didn't run like hot garbage.

Agreed.
All but one of my chars are sitting at a minimum of 25k resists when buffed up. You either build tankier or get insta gibbed due to lag spikes and or desync

chrightt

Yet another guy who doesn’t get the damage calculations of ESO and immediately blames “tangier” players for being on heavy armor. Heavy armor is not the issue. In fact, heavy armor makes your other % mitigation less effective because you have higher base armor. The higher your armor is the weaker other % mitigation is. With CP pvp being what the majority of the people play in Cyrodiil it is more likely that you are seeing light armor and medium armor on full CP. If you want to blame heavy armor try some BG matches with the heavy armor build of your choice. Come report back how you lost when you are not fighting at low MMR vs people who don’t pvp.

It is honestly much better if CP just gets a whole rework because CP definitely contributes to tankiness much more than the armor you wear because if you can survive hits medium and light armor offers more heals than heavy due to either increased weapon damage or higher spell Crit.

Spartabunny08

Fyi this tankier meta has grown since they destroyed the old perma block tanks. This is the result of that. Moral of the story be careful what you ask for. Funny how life works, just remember gain/lose is universal law and cannot be circumvented so here we are.

Sandman929

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I guarantee you'd see a lot more glass cannon type builds in pvp if the game didn't run like hot garbage.

Dead on

Shanehere

I always viewed heavy armor as training wheels for newer players to use so they can learn PvP without getting obliterated too quickly.

However, there are heavy armor damage sets that work too well with some classes, StamDK in particular shines. It would be foolish not to take advantage of it.

But I agree, there shouldn't be heavy armor sets in the game that gives as much or more damage than any medium armor set.

jadarock

Its healing and the protective trait allowing everyone to be tanky not heavy.

wild_kmacdb16_ESO

It's the crazy amount of self healing these tanks have that's the issue.

Davadin

DRTE wrote: »

My question is there a need for it in PvP? Do we need tanks in PvP? tanks that can output a very close amount of damage compared to light or medium. IMO no we do not. you come to PvP to fight not bash your head against someone with high resists, high heals, high damage.

My suggestion allow the set items on jewelry weapons but the player cannot wear 5 piece into PvP zones. Max 2 for undaunted passive.
This would be a very unpopular decision coming from the current meta of things but would stop all the tank meta in its tracks for the most part. I do understand there are light sets that can cause resists as high as heavy but they would not get all the healing passives to carry them to safety.

Heavy armor and damage should not be in the same sentence.

Time to see all the hate from this post lets goooooo.

it's not the set.

My medium Spriggan + 7th jewel/weapon can have higher resist than my heavy 7th Leg + (whatever set).

If I put on Troll King, then HP regen will be 1400+ before anything procs.

Now, if i put reverse and put on on Heavy New Moon Aco + Spriggan jewels, I can get even higher resist and proc over 6k+ Wep damage................


TLDR; sets isn't the problem with tank meta.

lack of solution to counter said meta is the problem.

Emma_Overload

It's funny seeing people blame this, that and the other thing for the tank meta. None of that stuff is the root cause of the meta, so nerfing classes, skills or gear isn't going to solve anything.

The cause of the tanky meta is ESO's toxic PvP community. Players build to survive at all costs, because dying means getting t-bagged, hate-whispered or worse, humiliated on some obnoxious streamer's YouTube or Twitch channel.

Is there anything ZOS could do about it? Disabling cross-faction whispers in PvP zones would help a lot. They could ban all emotes in PvP, and fix corpse removal and respawning so that it always happens immediately after death. They could even take the extreme measure of filing DMCA takedowns on all user-created Cyrodiil/IC/Battleground content. Other games have banned video footage, so it's definitely possible.

I can imagine that a lot of players would resist these types of changes, but I would be fine with any or all of them. I'd like to see people get back to playing instead of constantly farming "salt".

ChunkyCat

i dindu nothin

Canned_Apples

CP.

technohic

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I guarantee you'd see a lot more glass cannon type builds in pvp if the game didn't run like hot garbage.

Yep. I prefer medium or light but the problem is; if you can't react, that extra hit you can take is beneficial.

I actually don't see a problem with heavy armor or resists in general. You can build up quite a bit of penetration or run onslaught to counter it. Whats harder to counter is healing with defile being harder to get on a lot of classes. And there should be a way to break block that doesn't also CC to where its useless on CC immune targets.

StaticWave

Emma_Overload wrote: »

It's funny seeing people blame this, that and the other thing for the tank meta. None of that stuff is the root cause of the meta, so nerfing classes, skills or gear isn't going to solve anything.

The cause of the tanky meta is ESO's toxic PvP community. Players build to survive at all costs, because dying means getting t-bagged, hate-whispered or worse, humiliated on some obnoxious streamer's YouTube or Twitch channel.

Is there anything ZOS could do about it? Disabling cross-faction whispers in PvP zones would help a lot. They could ban all emotes in PvP, and fix corpse removal and respawning so that it always happens immedicately after death. They could even take the extreme measure of filing DMCA takedowns on all user-created Cyrodiil/IC/Battleground content. Other games have banned video footage, so it's definitely possible.

I can imagine that a lot of players would resist these types of changes, but I would be fine with any or all of them. I'd like to see people get back to playing instead of constantly farming "salt".

I thought my trolling attempts were obvious, then I saw this : ))

wolfie1.0.

StaticWave wrote: »

show previous quotes

Emma_Overload wrote: »

It's funny seeing people blame this, that and the other thing for the tank meta. None of that stuff is the root cause of the meta, so nerfing classes, skills or gear isn't going to solve anything.

The cause of the tanky meta is ESO's toxic PvP community. Players build to survive at all costs, because dying means getting t-bagged, hate-whispered or worse, humiliated on some obnoxious streamer's YouTube or Twitch channel.

Is there anything ZOS could do about it? Disabling cross-faction whispers in PvP zones would help a lot. They could ban all emotes in PvP, and fix corpse removal and respawning so that it always happens immedicately after death. They could even take the extreme measure of filing DMCA takedowns on all user-created Cyrodiil/IC/Battleground content. Other games have banned video footage, so it's definitely possible.

I can imagine that a lot of players would resist these types of changes, but I would be fine with any or all of them. I'd like to see people get back to playing instead of constantly farming "salt".

I thought my trolling attempts were obvious, then I saw this : ))

The problem with PVP is PVP. We just need to remove the player from the experience and it will fix everything.

StaticWave

Let's use New Moon Acolyte, Warrior's Fury, Bloodspawn, Lava Foot Soup food, and Warrior mundus as our control variable.

Below are my front bar stats as a Nord with 14pts in hp and 50pts in stam, in 5 medium 2 heavy:



Below are my front bar stats as an Orc, with 5pts in hp and 59pts in stam, in 6 heavy 1 medium:



We can see that in medium armor, the obvious stats that should be higher are critical rating, stamina recovery, and weapon damage. In heavy armor, resistances and hp are higher, as expected. The biggest difference here is that medium armor has about 318 more weapon damage and 9% more critical rating. These higher numbers should translate to medium armor dealing more damage. However, these stats are possible because of the racial passives, with nord giving medium armor 4k resistances to match heavy's, and orc giving heavy armor 258 weapon damage to compete with medium armor's damage output.

What can we conclude from these numbers? Well, heavy armor and medium armor serve different purposes, and are equally good. You can manipulate your stats easily with the right sets, glyphs, and race. As demonstrated in those pics, I was able to closely match heavy armor's resistance and hp with the right use of race and glyphs, while maintaining more damage by taking advantage of medium armor passives. Similarly, I could closely replicate medium armor damage by using the right race and glyphs.

Heavy armor is fine.

EDIT: not sure why the image links don't show up I'll try to use another one

MartiniDaniels

You may have 20k resistances in heavy armor and 35k in light or medium armor. Heavy armor passives are fine, just try comparing them to medium or light 5v5 (i.e. all bonuses against all bonuses, not handpicked passives) and you'll see armor passives are ok.

Tommy_The_Gun

Not my video, but it pretty much explains a lot why heavy armour is so popular in PvP. (all credit to the author).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5wqfkDeMLU

Keep in mind that currently the situation is slightly different. Server performance is much worse and also a lot of counters for heavy armour were nerfed to oblivion (Werewolf, bleed dmg mechanics, oblivion dmg etc).

^ I just find that hilarious that People wanted those to get nerfed badly, and now they are like "we dont have a counter to heavy armour" . Thanks to a result of blindfull call for nerfs, we now have kinda broken "ecosystem" in ESO balance.

xWarbrain

DRTE wrote: »

My question is there a need for it in PvP? Do we need tanks in PvP? tanks that can output a very close amount of damage compared to light or medium. IMO no we do not. you come to PvP to fight not bash your head against someone with high resists, high heals, high damage.

My suggestion allow the set items on jewelry weapons but the player cannot wear 5 piece into PvP zones. Max 2 for undaunted passive.
This would be a very unpopular decision coming from the current meta of things but would stop all the tank meta in its tracks for the most part. I do understand there are light sets that can cause resists as high as heavy but they would not get all the healing passives to carry them to safety.

Heavy armor and damage should not be in the same sentence.

Time to see all the hate from this post lets goooooo.

All I read was "wahhhhhh I can't kill it nerf it!".

Get penetration. CC's. Walk around them and fight someone else. LEARN TO PLAY.

EmEm_Oh

TequilaFire wrote: »

Vampires mist forming around LOS objects is more of a problem.
Mist form should cost way more than it does.

Nerf fangs. Buff gums.

Shardaxx

The problem is, heavy armor gives great resistance but not at the expense of other things.

Heavy armor should reduce your base move speed (it doesn't). That would sure put people off. What else?

Magicka characters get along just fine without the bonuses from light armor, so nobody wears it.

Medium gives good damage buff, but that's no use if you're dead. Cyro has often become about zerg trains and ball groups, and good luck surviving in the middle of that in light or medium armor.

With the right combo of skills, CP and gear, heavy armor wearers can still have great sustain and good damage. So sadly, heavy has become the choice for most players. They really need to rebalance armor to make light and medium more attractive.

almightyalfo

Just go do quests or what ever, clearly PvP is not for you.

BRogueNZ

Shardaxx wrote: »

Magicka characters get along just fine without the bonuses from light armor, so nobody wears it.

people wear it, its poop for the most part given how stam DK's/Sorcs are atm

LA is like medium in that you can put a dent in some players but get rekt by most stamina classes if you don't have streak or stealth at your disposal (or a stam pool worth mentioning). It gets some sprint/root assistance which is nice while medium gets its dodge.