Dungeon Explorer Costume exploit action -- may we get some stats after action is taken?

Dusk_Coven

@ZOS_GinaBruno regarding https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/502195/dungeon-explorer-costume-removal could we get some stats after action is taken? Of course I'm not asking for naming and shaming, but it would be nice to have some numbers like how many accounts received what type of action.
That would go a long way toward community confidence that action is taken against exploiters.
SWTOR reports this sort of statistic, and it is a number that can easily be obtained as a matter of course in taking action against accounts.

MartiniDaniels

Where is your guarantee that people were doing that purposefully? I bought this costume, and I play with S&B majority of the time. More then that, this costume encourages S&B usage because it hides shield which often goes through your head/hands.. Thanks god I didn't went to Cyro in it, or I guess I would be banned. Cool. To be banned because ZOS coders made an error.

VaranisArano

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Where is your guarantee that people were doing that purposefully? I bought this costume, and I play with S&B majority of the time. More then that, this costume encourages S&B usage because it hides shield which often goes through your head/hands.. Thanks god I didn't went to Cyro in it, or I guess I would be banned. Cool. To be banned because ZOS coders made an error.

How do we know it wasn't an innocent error?

The usual way: they didn't report it to ZOS and they didn't stop doing it. That's what you agreed to do in the TOS and the Code of Conduct.

I mean, it was apparently turning players invisible with no hitbox in Cyrodiil. How hard is it to tell that's not intended?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/502169/dungeon-explorer-costume

Gilvoth

a State cop once told me

"not knowing isn't a defense, here's your ticket, have an awesome day"

Zorgon_The_Revenged

I'm more interested in how you could exploit with the costume.

Dusk_Coven

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Where is your guarantee that people were doing that purposefully? I bought this costume, and I play with S&B majority of the time. More then that, this costume encourages S&B usage because it hides shield which often goes through your head/hands.. Thanks god I didn't went to Cyro in it, or I guess I would be banned. Cool. To be banned because ZOS coders made an error.

I'm not arguing for or against action. They have already announced that there will be an investigation. See the link provided.
It's too late now and it's up to whoever's handling the cases.

VaranisArano wrote: »

I mean, it was apparently turning players invisible with no hitbox in Cyrodiil. How hard is it to tell that's not intended?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/502169/dungeon-explorer-costume

Sure, easy to tell when you're in-game because you can clearly see what's happening. But I'd be curious what sort of tools they have to discover that. What sort of data is logged and how is it deciphered? I think this is why exploits are hard to confirm after the fact. And if their process is flawed, people are gonna get caught unfairly. Not everyone's streaming their PvP -- unless they are and that's why Cyrodiil is broken.

idk

VaranisArano wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Where is your guarantee that people were doing that purposefully? I bought this costume, and I play with S&B majority of the time. More then that, this costume encourages S&B usage because it hides shield which often goes through your head/hands.. Thanks god I didn't went to Cyro in it, or I guess I would be banned. Cool. To be banned because ZOS coders made an error.

How do we know it wasn't an innocent error?

The usual way: they didn't report it to ZOS and they didn't stop doing it. That's what you agreed to do in the TOS and the Code of Conduct.

I mean, it was apparently turning players invisible with no hitbox in Cyrodiil. How hard is it to tell that's not intended?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/502169/dungeon-explorer-costume

Very good point. Much of the exploits Zos has banned players over have been slap me in the face obvious something was amiss. If they continue using it and choose to not report odd behavior then Zos has reason to take action.

To OP. I doubt Zos will report numbers as there really is no point going beyond saying they are taking action or are taking action. We have no way to verify it.

x48rph

There have been cases before where they reported the numbers. iirc, they told us how many way back with the imperial city xp exploit. The real questions that should be answered before bans or what ever are handed out is could a player reasonably notice that something was wrong and did they continue to use it long after it would of been obvious.

Dusk_Coven

x48rph wrote: »

There have been cases before where they reported the numbers. iirc, they told us how many way back with the imperial city xp exploit.

I do believe many other games report numbers. FFXIV even reports counts of actions taken against bots and RMT and people who used RMT. It's the closest they can do to show that justice is being done without naming and shaming.
Sure, we can't verify it but I'd rather have it as a step in the right direction. And it's not like they can't just keep track while they do it so the overhead cost isn't high.

Gilvoth

even if they do ban people they just un-bann them in a few weeks later.
atleast that's what they did in the past.

Dr_Ganknstein

This explains a lot. I witnessed this happening everytime a player would use a siege weapon I couldn't see his character, just name above him and couldn't target him. Sucks because I was about to get it because it looks good.

Dusk_Coven

Gilvoth wrote: »

even if they do ban people they just un-bann them in a few weeks later.
atleast that's what they did in the past.

That's why I'd like to see both the count and the type of action taken. In SWTOR you can in fact get a permanent ban for exploits and for PvP cheating (or so the devs claim in their summary of action taken). Probably doesn't stop them from getting another account though but at least they're starting from scratch.

Ingenon

I am curious why ZOS takes action on some exploits, while ignoring others.

During the recent Witches Festival, folks reported an exploit on PS4 / NA where folks were getting dozens of gold plunder skulls per hour because of a bug [url="http://"]https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/499770/plunders-skull-exploit[/url]
I'm not talking purple plunder skulls, I'm talking gold plunder skulls, announced as once per day per boss type, and folks were getting dozens per hour from one boss type. And making millions in game coin selling all the swag they got from the extra gold plunder skulls. Response from ZOS: crickets.

Now there is a reported exploit, where folks can turn themselves invisible during PVP. And ZOS announces they will take action on this.

Please explain why folks doing something allowed by one coding bug are getting punished, while others who took advantage of another coding bug did not.

Dusk_Coven

Gilvoth wrote: »

a State cop once told me

"not knowing isn't a defense, here's your ticket, have an awesome day"

Unfortunately it apparently is here, re: 1-berry-Onyx-Indrik and Necromancers-without-Elsweyr

Parrot1986

When do we see the report on the actions ZoS takes on the internal teams who seem to constantly deliver things that break the game?

They’ve managed to break a crown store costume that’s been in the game before, achievement points UI not working, backpacks showing as empty but with loot, group finder several times, meridian motif and cradle of shadows hoarvers mass spawning and that’s just a few off the top of my head.

Not saying players exploiting is right or doesn’t deserve action but all of this falls firstly at the feet of ZoS who keep implementing or breaking things which have been in the game before or for years!

Cirantille

What is dungeon explorer costume? When I check website of eso it does not show anything o.O

starkerealm

Cirantille wrote: »

What is dungeon explorer costume? When I check website of eso it does not show anything o.O

EDIT: @Kittytravel grabbed the splash for it, here:

The screenshots I took don't really do it justice, it's a pretty cool outfit.

yRaven

Someone explain what was the exploit? I'm blind in here

Kiralyn2000

yRaven wrote: »

Someone explain what was the exploit? I'm blind in here

VaranisArano wrote: »

I mean, it was apparently turning players invisible with no hitbox in Cyrodiil. How hard is it to tell that's not intended?

And yeah - that's not an "oops! I didn't realize!" situation, like some exploits can be (at least until they repeat it dozens of times.)

Thorvarg

yRaven wrote: »

Someone explain what was the exploit? I'm blind in here

Demra

So what happened? You turn invisible upon wearing that costume with s&b? Is it invisible for everybody including the player using it or just players around?

Dusk_Coven

Now I'm wondering if ZOS should have even announced they are taking action instead of just taking action.
Two things might be triggered:
(1) People will find the exploit and use it, believing that ZOS won't be able to find them or they can appeal with some lame excuse later
(2) People will launder their PvP gains to protect it from possible action. And then will people / guild banks who receive these items or proceeds of sales of these items get caught in the action taken?

There was a very obvious credit exploit in SWTOR (buy from vendor at 0, sell back to vendor for credits) when certain vendors were bugged after a patch. They quickly did a bandaid fix, and some people were caught and action taken against them, but definitely not all. But because there was a history of not being able to catch everyone, and people using various (successful) tricks to hide credits, apparently a lot of people tried it.

In any case, that they will take action is a step in the right direction. Every exploit must be addressed and confirmation of action must be provided (even if they couldn't catch everyone).
When you show that you will take action, people will be less likely to exploit. And when you show that you can catch most of them, people will be less likely to risk using an exploit.

Dusk_Coven

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Not saying players exploiting is right or doesn’t deserve action but all of this falls firstly at the feet of ZoS who keep implementing or breaking things which have been in the game before or for years!

If the government lets you buy a fast car, it's foremost their fault when you are going at autobahn speeds in the city?

ZarkingFrued

If anyone here thinks people need banned for wearing a costume they just bought in PVP then you're seriously way to triggered. Now 100's of people are about to catch a ban when they have no clue what they did wrong. If I would have been able to find someone to buy crowns for this costume from yesterday I would be catching a ban next week for something I didn't know i did. ZOS this is absurd. PEOPLE WHO SOLO HAVE NO WAY TO KNOW THAT THERE IS A GLITCH OCCURING UNTIL THEY READ IT HERE, AND AT THAT POINT IT IS TO LATE.

idk

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

If anyone here thinks people need banned for wearing a costume they just bought in PVP then you're seriously way to triggered. Now 100's of people are about to catch a ban when they have no clue what they did wrong. If I would have been able to find someone to buy crowns for this costume from yesterday I would be catching a ban next week for something I didn't know i did. ZOS this is absurd. PEOPLE WHO SOLO HAVE NO WAY TO KNOW THAT THERE IS A GLITCH OCCURING UNTIL THEY READ IT HERE, AND AT THAT POINT IT IS TO LATE.

I would suggest the all caps is more a sign of being triggered.

I am not triggered at all. But I do agree with Zos' statement and that anyone who utilized the exploit in a manner that was clear they knew about it and especially if they did not report it should get banned. It two a specific setup for the exploit to occur according to their report.

Considering specific gear needed to be equipped along with the costume, according to Zos, it would seem fairly unlikely or an extremely small pool of solo PvP players that would be under review because they did not know about this exploit.

khajiitNPC

@ZarkingFrued you left your caps on bud, but it’s not like they “didn’t know”, the exploit is extremely obvious. When you play the game you agree to report any bugs — your argument is basically: “If the government didn’t allow me to buy this super fast car I wouldn’t have sped”, knowing there’s laws in place to prevent from speeding. The ToS are those laws. Don’t be triggered. Yes it was an example of poor coding, but it happens. It’s your ethical duty to report it. Sorry you’re getting banned that sucks.

SmukkeHeks

For how long? A week, months? Years? 😱

It would answer some of those “what just happened there” situations in Cyrodiil. Not all of them, but some..

Dusk_Coven

SmukkeHeks wrote: »

For how long? A week, months? Years? 😱

It would answer some of those “what just happened there” situations in Cyrodiil. Not all of them, but some..

Presumably since the particular costume (now no longer available for purchase) was active.
BUT there's no guarantee other costumes might not have the same glitch. I wouldn't be surprised if the code were reused elsewhere (why reinvent the wheel, after all).

starkerealm

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

SmukkeHeks wrote: »

For how long? A week, months? Years? 😱

It would answer some of those “what just happened there” situations in Cyrodiil. Not all of them, but some..

Presumably since the particular costume (now no longer available for purchase) was active.
BUT there's no guarantee other costumes might not have the same glitch. I wouldn't be surprised if the code were reused elsewhere (why reinvent the wheel, after all).

The costume's shield concealing effect is unique. So, I'm guessing that's not an issue. I do hope they add the shield concealment to the Treasure Hunter and Traveling Merchant costumes when this gets sorted out, but I suspect the costume's ability to hide the shield will simply be removed.

Parrot1986

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Not saying players exploiting is right or doesn’t deserve action but all of this falls firstly at the feet of ZoS who keep implementing or breaking things which have been in the game before or for years!

If the government lets you buy a fast car, it's foremost their fault when you are going at autobahn speeds in the city?

Think you need to L2A (Learn to Analogy) because that’s not even close to comparable to this. Ofc if you choose to break the law and it’s solely your choice then you should be punished.the car is working as it should do but you’re choosing to break the law.

ZoS put a defective item in the game, an item that causes people to be invisible essentially, whilst wearing S+B, an item that’s been in the game before and not had these issues. Yes some people exploited it and I’m fine with action being taken, my point is Zos has created the problem and the initial fault/blame sits with them. If they did their job properly we wouldn’t have had any issue.

Dusk_Coven

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Not saying players exploiting is right or doesn’t deserve action but all of this falls firstly at the feet of ZoS who keep implementing or breaking things which have been in the game before or for years!

If the government lets you buy a fast car, it's foremost their fault when you are going at autobahn speeds in the city?

Think you need to L2A (Learn to Analogy) because that’s not even close to comparable to this. Ofc if you choose to break the law and it’s solely your choice then you should be punished.the car is working as it should do but you’re choosing to break the law.

SMH
Not even worth trying to explain it to you.