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Lack of Ball Group Counters
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ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
Edited by ChunkyCat on January 10, 2020 4:54PM5 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
No one is asking for ZOS to lower the amount of players in the BG - but there should be more incentives for players to spread out and crossheals shouldn't carry as much as they do.
In other MMOs if your group sticks together and sits in AoEs, they typically die because crossheals aren't such a carry (or have a cooldown, in which case random pugs can't just spam them and survive).
That is why those other MMOs have much more populated PvP than ESO.0 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
No one is asking for ZOS to lower the amount of players in the BG - but there should be more incentives for players to spread out
You mean like.. having multiple “Flags” to “capture” as quickly as possible, but at the same time, thus forcing the group to split up?
Or how about... stealing some kind of “relic” from another team, while at the same time having to defend your own? Yeah, all four team members could make a run for the relic, but then they risk having their own stolen. Thus, forcing them to split up....
Yeah... these would be interesting play styles.
>,>
Edited by ChunkyCat on January 10, 2020 5:05PM4 -
Freakin_Hytte✭✭✭✭✭
Right, right. So people should only be allowed to play certain builds/classes in the only (sometimes) fun PvP content this game has? Not only that, they should also play those only with other people? Do I need to tell you how ridiculous that sounds?
Atleast you now know why I made this post in the first place.
It's even more ridiculous how you are trying to cling on to the "logic" that basically comes down to "teamplayers bad, solo players good" when bgs are team vs team vs team, it's not meant to be played solo. If you don't want to play what is best for you and your team because you don't think it's fun, sure you are more than welcome to play whatever you like.
But you'll never get any support where you want make teamplay less important in modes that are focused around teamplay. Go to dueling areas, imperial City or cyrodiil like the other dude said if you don't enjoy players that stick together as a team.
And I honestly don't think bgs are the most fun for you when you obviously hate the base concept of bgs.Edited by Freakin_Hytte on January 10, 2020 5:15PM6 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.5 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
No one is asking for ZOS to lower the amount of players in the BG - but there should be more incentives for players to spread out
You mean like.. having multiple “Flags” to “capture” as quickly as possible, but at the same time, thus forcing the group to split up?
Or how about... stealing some kind of “relic” from another team, while at the same time having to defend your own? Yeah, all four team members could make a run for the relic, but then they risk having their own stolen. Thus, forcing them to split up....
Yeah... these would be interesting play styles.
>,>
The game modes where my personal skill as a player doesn't matter one bit? Where people with more deaths than kills usually win the game? Game modes completely ruined by the 3 way format of ESO BGs?
Those game modes? Yeah, they would be interesting... play styles(?) if they actually worked like they do in other MMOs (I used to love CTF Warsong Gulch in WoW, back in the days).
But not in ESO, where fighting the enemy team means the 3rd team benefits - where avoiding fights is more beneficial towards winning than actual PvP. Oh well, another topic.Freakin_Hytte wrote: »
Right, right. So people should only be allowed to play certain builds/classes in the only (sometimes) fun PvP content this game has? Not only that, they should also play those only with other people? Do I need to tell you how ridiculous that sounds?
Atleast you now know why I made this post in the first place.
It's even more ridiculous how you are trying to cling on to the "logic" that basically comes down to "teamplayers bad, solo players good" when bgs are team vs team vs team, it's not meant to be played solo. If you don't want to play what is best for you and your team because you don't think it's fun, sure you are more than welcome to play whatever you like.
But you'll never get any support where you want make teamplay less important in modes that are focused around teamplay. Go to dueling areas, imperial City or cyrodiil like the other dude said if you don't enjoy players that stick together as a team.
And I honestly don't think bgs are the most fun for you when you obviously hate the base concept of bgs.
To talk about "teamplay" you should first understand what actual teamplay is.
If moving together with other players and spamming autopilot heals that require no targeting or conscious effort to heal others counts as teamplay, then so would randomly spamming snipes or hardcasting crystal frags with other people from 20m away (please] don't do that, just adding this as an example of how one can stretch the "teamplay" argument to justify any type of low skill zerging playstyle).
In fact I would say I have my team a lot more in mind when I play my bowblade for example, since I have to consciously use magnum shots defensively sometimes to prevent enemy team from killing a team mate (atleast for a few seconds).
Compare that to spamming rapid regen or twilight heal to heal yourself, and simultaneously healing the whole team even though you probably didn't even realize they were low health and taking pressure. Yikes.
"Teamplay" isn't (shouldn't be) synonymous with playing 4 magicka builds in a ball group and spamming heals on each other and then running away at the first sight of a 1v1 should such a scenario occur for some reason.
What about stamina builds who don't have crossheals? Builds that are supposed to be ranged and can't run in with the team mates?
Assuming the team vs team gameplay should boil around ball grouping AoE fiestas where no one dies, and then assuming that is good for the game is narrow-minded at best..Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
P.S. There's plenty of builds I play that can and do support group with crossheals (magcro, mSorc, magplar), and builds that require a group to function optimally (stam sorc, bow dk), yet I'm not one of those people who think those should be the only viable ways to play this game.Edited by Decimus on January 10, 2020 8:36PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.3 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
Also having fought them before separately in different teams, these people "running solid builds" are literally 1vX fodder when they don't have multiple crossheals in the same team, and they were not a premade. Their "teamwork" consisted of staying in one spot almost the entire game, fighting the other team which also stood at the same spot almost the entire game, and never dying because of the sheer amount of heals going around (you know, bc self heals also heal other people nearby).
I think you should stop writing.Edited by Decimus on January 10, 2020 8:44PM0 -
xWarbrain✭✭✭✭✭You really don't understand the right way to play BGs. The goal in Team Deathmatch is to get the most kills while preventing the opponents from killing you. You're doing it wrong.XB1 NA
Your nerf suggestion is dumb. Learn to counter other players instead of having the game rebuilt to your ability level.3 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭You really don't understand the right way to play BGs. The goal in Team Deathmatch is to get the most kills while preventing the opponents from killing you. You're doing it wrong.
Eh, I get a positive KDR in 99% of my games but thanks for assuming. You probably think you're talking to some average pug with 700-800 CPs, I get it.
Let me demonstrate the problem more clearly:
That right there is 4,3m damage - and yet the game ends with a total of 12 kills because of the amount of healing.
Now imagine purple team being the same, except with two twilight heal spamming sorcs stealing every kill you're about to get.
You wind up with 4m+ damage and zero kills while players you're accustomed to 1vX'ing win the game with less than 1m damage each.
Do you still think crosshealing is balanced? Think carefully.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.3 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).Edited by Decimus on January 10, 2020 9:43PM0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).
The fact is you ran solo, instead of with your team, and faced a team that worked together. It is amazing how you make up excuses for the performance of a team that works together taking you down and suggest they should not be as strong together.
In the end the we have ball group counters. We have counters to teams that work together. it is called superior tactics and the group you mentioned are the ones who had the superior tactics and you are complaining about that. It really is amazing and I am thinking BGs is not the place for you.3 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).
The fact is you ran solo, instead of with your team, and faced a team that worked together. It is amazing how you make up excuses for the performance of a team that works together taking you down and suggest they should not be as strong together.
In the end the we have ball group counters. We have counters to teams that work together. it is called superior tactics and the group you mentioned are the ones who had the superior tactics and you are complaining about that. It really is amazing and I am thinking BGs is not the place for you.
How do you know what went down in that game? Were you in it? No, didn't think so.
Lots of assumptions flying around. You can (and should) support your team by being away from them when playing a ranged stam build - positioning yourself inside the team gets you killed on a build that actually builds around killing people rather than not dying. It doesn't mean you can't play with your team (drop CCs, burst and pressure people).
What you can't do is choose your team mates before the game, and another thing you can't do is burst through 4 people healing each other - so you wind up spending the entire game wasting your stam pool over and over again while magicka sorcs steal kills left and right and maybe some warden scores a few with AoEs. It has nothing to do with team play.
Also, the bar must be very low if running together and spamming heals is considered "superior tactics". Normally I'd expect "superior tactics" to take some player skill to pull off rather than just playing the "right" builds.
And for the record, there's nothing you can do about that except running the same ***, the overwhelming amount of crossheals & tank sets removes options such as running an AoE gank build or even a single target gank build (to get through health pool before heals kick in).
What you're left with is playing the same "superior tactics" and hoping you have a mag sorc or two in team and that they get luckier than enemy teams with their executes.
If you're one of the people who enjoy running around in a ball group Xv1'ing solo players, then I'm sorry but maybe BGs aren't the place for you, considering there is already an environment for that kind of "gameplay" called Cyrodiil.
You may have to ride around 15 minutes to find a player and it may be laggy half the time, but on the bright side you can bring 10 times as many players with you to get kills! Lots of "superior tactics" to do for sureEdited by Decimus on January 10, 2020 10:27PM0 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There are several issues being brought up in the discussion. I think it’s better to break it down then argue over the conclusion:
1. Stam do bring less to group play then mag. I think it’s an issue that should be addressed.
2. Tanky groups like in the screenshot of 3.4 million damage don’t win games. High burst wins BGs, that’s why pure healers can be a negative for the group. I used to play one and once I started mixing in damage my win rate went up.
3. NBing is rough in BGs, I’ve only had a couple games where they worked well in a team.
A DK and myself as a MagWarden would bait a group and have them chase stringing them out while the NBs would pick people off. It was organized through two lines in chat, no premade, but everyone clicked and we won a DM with 2 bow blades on our team (which is Damn hard to do). Awareness > all in pvp.
You can make NBs work, it’s just a lot harder. Can a NB join a brawler group and perform well? No. You have to think more outside the box, for some reason it’s usually DK players who do this best, and NBs the worst. Part of it I think is the personalities of those who choose their class.Edited by Iskiab on January 10, 2020 10:40PMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).
The fact is you ran solo, instead of with your team, and faced a team that worked together. It is amazing how you make up excuses for the performance of a team that works together taking you down and suggest they should not be as strong together.
In the end the we have ball group counters. We have counters to teams that work together. it is called superior tactics and the group you mentioned are the ones who had the superior tactics and you are complaining about that. It really is amazing and I am thinking BGs is not the place for you.
Also, the bar must be very low if running together and spamming heals is considered "superior tactics". Normally I'd expect "superior tactics" to take some player skill to pull off rather than just playing the "right" builds.
It worked well for them and they sent you to the forums complaining about it.3 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).
The fact is you ran solo, instead of with your team, and faced a team that worked together. It is amazing how you make up excuses for the performance of a team that works together taking you down and suggest they should not be as strong together.
In the end the we have ball group counters. We have counters to teams that work together. it is called superior tactics and the group you mentioned are the ones who had the superior tactics and you are complaining about that. It really is amazing and I am thinking BGs is not the place for you.
Also, the bar must be very low if running together and spamming heals is considered "superior tactics". Normally I'd expect "superior tactics" to take some player skill to pull off rather than just playing the "right" builds.
It worked well for them and they sent you to the forums complaining about it.
Yes, I tend to complain when something is too strong - if no one brings these things up they never get fixed.
If something works too well compared to the amount of effort & player skill required to pull off said task, there is a balance issue.
It's why sets/abilities get nerfed, but I feel like listing each overperforming heal, CC, dmg skill & item set would derail this thread, so I'd rather just see Zenimax address the disease directly rather than the symptoms and work towards making PvP more enjoyable for higher variety of playstyles.There are several issues being brought up in the discussion. I think it’s better to break it down then argue over the conclusion:
1. Stam do bring less to group play then mag. I think it’s an issue that should be addressed.
2. Tanky groups like in the screenshot of 3.4 million damage don’t win games. High burst wins BGs, that’s why pure healers can be a negative for the group. I used to play one and once I started mixing in damage my win rate went up.
3. NBing is rough in BGs, I’ve only had a couple games where they worked well in a team.
A DK and myself as a MagWarden would bait a group and have them chase stringing them out while the NBs would pick people off. It was organized through two lines in chat, no premade, but everyone clicked and we won a DM with 2 bow blades on our team (which is Damn hard to do). Awareness > all in pvp.
You can make NBs work, it’s just a lot harder. Can a NB join a brawler group and perform well? No. You have to think more outside the box, for some reason it’s usually DK players who do this best.
High burst doesn't win BGs once you reach a certain threshold of crossheals/tankiness and there's sorcs in the other team stealing kills you're trying to get, in that case what wins BGs is building around not dying and building around stealing kills - which I'd consider a big negative to gameplay experience.
What your team pulled off is nice and all, but if the matchmaking throws you slow, squishy glass cannons who die to focus before they can bait anyone it falls apart. Ultimately it's dependent on matchmaking RNG entirely - those people could be really talented players but if there's no heals in your team it's always an uphill battle (the less heals, the worse).
I don't think this is how it should be, period.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).
The fact is you ran solo, instead of with your team, and faced a team that worked together. It is amazing how you make up excuses for the performance of a team that works together taking you down and suggest they should not be as strong together.
In the end the we have ball group counters. We have counters to teams that work together. it is called superior tactics and the group you mentioned are the ones who had the superior tactics and you are complaining about that. It really is amazing and I am thinking BGs is not the place for you.
Also, the bar must be very low if running together and spamming heals is considered "superior tactics". Normally I'd expect "superior tactics" to take some player skill to pull off rather than just playing the "right" builds.
It worked well for them and they sent you to the forums complaining about it.
Yes, I tend to complain when something is too strong - if no one brings these things up they never get fixed.
If something works too well compared to the amount of effort & player skill required to pull off said task, there is a balance issue.
Not at all. You are confused about what 4v4v4 is all about since you are running solo. They had superior tactics as they chose to play as a team and you did not. No matter how you attempt to spin it you have made this absolutely clear.2 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).
The fact is you ran solo, instead of with your team, and faced a team that worked together. It is amazing how you make up excuses for the performance of a team that works together taking you down and suggest they should not be as strong together.
In the end the we have ball group counters. We have counters to teams that work together. it is called superior tactics and the group you mentioned are the ones who had the superior tactics and you are complaining about that. It really is amazing and I am thinking BGs is not the place for you.
Also, the bar must be very low if running together and spamming heals is considered "superior tactics". Normally I'd expect "superior tactics" to take some player skill to pull off rather than just playing the "right" builds.
It worked well for them and they sent you to the forums complaining about it.
Yes, I tend to complain when something is too strong - if no one brings these things up they never get fixed.
If something works too well compared to the amount of effort & player skill required to pull off said task, there is a balance issue.
Not at all. You are confused about what 4v4v4 is all about since you are running solo. They had superior tactics as they chose to play as a team and you did not. No matter how you attempt to spin it you have made this absolutely clear.
Again with the misguided notion that I run solo.
There is a difference between standing away (as a ranged build) from your group which is likely engaging enemy team in melee AoE fiesta, and "playing solo". Just as there is a difference between playing a stam build (no crossheals) and playing a mag build (crossheals).
Do we really need to go back to "superior tactics" as well? If one way (tank sets and crossheals, stack together) is superior to other ways of playing the game, then I must once again repeat that there is a balance issue.
And I'm tired of repeating myself. Sorry if you feel your "way of life" is being threatened, I'm sure you'll find some other way of Xv1'ing and getting carried by your team.Edited by Decimus on January 10, 2020 11:22PM0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You really don't understand the right way to play BGs. The goal in Team Deathmatch is to get the most kills while preventing the opponents from killing you. You're doing it wrong.
Eh, I get a positive KDR in 99% of my games but thanks for assuming. You probably think you're talking to some average pug with 700-800 CPs, I get it.
Let me demonstrate the problem more clearly:
That right there is 4,3m damage - and yet the game ends with a total of 12 kills because of the amount of healing.
Now imagine purple team being the same, except with two twilight heal spamming sorcs stealing every kill you're about to get.
You wind up with 4m+ damage and zero kills while players you're accustomed to 1vX'ing win the game with less than 1m damage each.
Do you still think crosshealing is balanced? Think carefully.
This screenshot is perfect example what will happen if there were only 2 teams and 4 vs 4. I bet the other group was also good player but because of the random match making they had probably 2 healers and one tanky DPS. They had no chance to win vs the other group as they do not have enough damage to secure kills.Because I can!1 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭You really don't understand the right way to play BGs. The goal in Team Deathmatch is to get the most kills while preventing the opponents from killing you. You're doing it wrong.
Eh, I get a positive KDR in 99% of my games but thanks for assuming. You probably think you're talking to some average pug with 700-800 CPs, I get it.
Let me demonstrate the problem more clearly:
That right there is 4,3m damage - and yet the game ends with a total of 12 kills because of the amount of healing.
Now imagine purple team being the same, except with two twilight heal spamming sorcs stealing every kill you're about to get.
You wind up with 4m+ damage and zero kills while players you're accustomed to 1vX'ing win the game with less than 1m damage each.
Do you still think crosshealing is balanced? Think carefully.
This screenshot is perfect example what will happen if there were only 2 teams and 4 vs 4. I bet the other group was also good player but because of the random match making they had probably 2 healers and one tanky DPS. They had no chance to win vs the other group as they do not have enough damage to secure kills.
I had a very similar BG the other day with 3 teams - 6 kills 2,2m dmg on a single target burst oriented build after 15 minutes, team with 2 sorcs stealing kills won & each team had atleast one full healer & multiple crosshealing sorcs, magblades etc.
The only other stamina build I could see was a stam DK with SnB and 28k health.
Team vs Team or 3-way format - it doesn't really make a difference. Only when the third team doesn't have crossheals does the game become "steal the most kills on 3rd team" competition rather than an actual competitive BG between teams.
People need to start dying in BGs.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).
The fact is you ran solo, instead of with your team, and faced a team that worked together. It is amazing how you make up excuses for the performance of a team that works together taking you down and suggest they should not be as strong together.
In the end the we have ball group counters. We have counters to teams that work together. it is called superior tactics and the group you mentioned are the ones who had the superior tactics and you are complaining about that. It really is amazing and I am thinking BGs is not the place for you.
Also, the bar must be very low if running together and spamming heals is considered "superior tactics". Normally I'd expect "superior tactics" to take some player skill to pull off rather than just playing the "right" builds.
It worked well for them and they sent you to the forums complaining about it.
Yes, I tend to complain when something is too strong - if no one brings these things up they never get fixed.
If something works too well compared to the amount of effort & player skill required to pull off said task, there is a balance issue.
Not at all. You are confused about what 4v4v4 is all about since you are running solo. They had superior tactics as they chose to play as a team and you did not. No matter how you attempt to spin it you have made this absolutely clear.
Again with the misguided notion that I run solo.It is my firm belief that these groups who just stack four people in close proximity and run around 4v1'ing people or ulti dumping are the worst thing in ESO's BG system, and the only reason for that is the lack of proper counters to them.
Wonder where I would get the idea you were running solo since this is your second sentence in the OP.
Either way, you were not running with your team and got steamrolled by a group that stuck together or your team just plain got out played.
It is still 4v4v4 and the best way to defeat a group that plays together is to out play them. You are literally complaining because you got outplayed and are making excuses.3 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).
The fact is you ran solo, instead of with your team, and faced a team that worked together. It is amazing how you make up excuses for the performance of a team that works together taking you down and suggest they should not be as strong together.
In the end the we have ball group counters. We have counters to teams that work together. it is called superior tactics and the group you mentioned are the ones who had the superior tactics and you are complaining about that. It really is amazing and I am thinking BGs is not the place for you.
Also, the bar must be very low if running together and spamming heals is considered "superior tactics". Normally I'd expect "superior tactics" to take some player skill to pull off rather than just playing the "right" builds.
It worked well for them and they sent you to the forums complaining about it.
Yes, I tend to complain when something is too strong - if no one brings these things up they never get fixed.
If something works too well compared to the amount of effort & player skill required to pull off said task, there is a balance issue.
Not at all. You are confused about what 4v4v4 is all about since you are running solo. They had superior tactics as they chose to play as a team and you did not. No matter how you attempt to spin it you have made this absolutely clear.
Again with the misguided notion that I run solo.It is my firm belief that these groups who just stack four people in close proximity and run around 4v1'ing people or ulti dumping are the worst thing in ESO's BG system, and the only reason for that is the lack of proper counters to them.
Wonder where I would get the idea you were running solo since this is your second sentence in the OP.
Either way, you were not running with your team and got steamrolled by a group that stuck together or your team just plain got out played.
It is still 4v4v4 and the best way to defeat a group that plays together is to out play them. You are literally complaining because you got outplayed and are making excuses.
Yes, 4v1 is usually what things result in after your 3 team mates die due to getting focused by 4 people and not playing crossheal tanks like they're apparently supposed to.
Now I want you to imagine for a moment a game where you're not pigeonholed into one type of build and playstyle in order to avoid getting "outplayed". Can you see it? Good.
If bad players can "outplay" opponents in a random BG without even knowing they're outplaying them simply by having the matchmaking system randomly throw them in with more heals & tanks than the other team, there's a serious problem.
I'm sorry if you can't see that, I cannot continue here without breaking atleast 3 forum rules.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).
The fact is you ran solo, instead of with your team, and faced a team that worked together. It is amazing how you make up excuses for the performance of a team that works together taking you down and suggest they should not be as strong together.
In the end the we have ball group counters. We have counters to teams that work together. it is called superior tactics and the group you mentioned are the ones who had the superior tactics and you are complaining about that. It really is amazing and I am thinking BGs is not the place for you.
Also, the bar must be very low if running together and spamming heals is considered "superior tactics". Normally I'd expect "superior tactics" to take some player skill to pull off rather than just playing the "right" builds.
It worked well for them and they sent you to the forums complaining about it.
Yes, I tend to complain when something is too strong - if no one brings these things up they never get fixed.
If something works too well compared to the amount of effort & player skill required to pull off said task, there is a balance issue.
Not at all. You are confused about what 4v4v4 is all about since you are running solo. They had superior tactics as they chose to play as a team and you did not. No matter how you attempt to spin it you have made this absolutely clear.
Again with the misguided notion that I run solo.It is my firm belief that these groups who just stack four people in close proximity and run around 4v1'ing people or ulti dumping are the worst thing in ESO's BG system, and the only reason for that is the lack of proper counters to them.
Wonder where I would get the idea you were running solo since this is your second sentence in the OP.
Either way, you were not running with your team and got steamrolled by a group that stuck together or your team just plain got out played.
It is still 4v4v4 and the best way to defeat a group that plays together is to out play them. You are literally complaining because you got outplayed and are making excuses.
Yes, 4v1 is usually what things result in after your 3 team mates die due to getting focused by 4 people and not playing crossheal tanks like they're apparently supposed to.
Now I want you to imagine for a moment a game where you're not pigeonholed into one type of build and playstyle in order to avoid getting "outplayed". Can you see it? Good.
If bad players can "outplay" opponents in a random BG without even knowing they're outplaying them simply by having the matchmaking system randomly throw them in with more heals & tanks than the other team, there's a serious problem.
I'm sorry if you can't see that, I cannot continue here without breaking atleast 3 forum rules.
Dude, you were focused on you facing 4 organized players and mentioning 1v4. Regardless, you are not suggesting your team faced them 4v4 and still lost. That goes back to tactics and strats along with builds. Nothing more and nothing less.1 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭As much as you can play as you want in this game it doesn’t mean you’re going to be effective. If you refuse to learn, adapt, and use teamwork in a team based setting and then create a thread refusing to listen to any input then you deserve to lose. The better team won, the keyword is team!
2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It’s play as you want, but really winning I think is about adapting to the situation and player tactics/skill.
My magtemplar and MagWarden win rates are pretty ridiculous right now. Why? I try and support team mates and can switch between healing and damage depending on my group mates.
If there’s an advantage to mag right now that’s it. Being able to go mostly healer and pump out 1 million healing or go full damage and hit 18 KBs in a death match is great.
I’ve hit higher healing totals in BGs before in full healer specs, but look closely at those screen shots with ridiculous healing totals. They’re always losses. The game actually still heavily favours damage over healing.
Stam can support each other, but it’s harder. A NB who’s off from the team the whole game almost always results in the team being weaker. Common sense stuff is the meta really.
PS - high damage totals aren’t necessarily a good measure of dps performance. 4 dps who don’t assist each other will have high damage totals and a loss, damage is higher from all hitting different targets and not being able to kill anyone.Edited by Iskiab on January 11, 2020 1:23AMLooking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten5 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).
The fact is you ran solo, instead of with your team, and faced a team that worked together. It is amazing how you make up excuses for the performance of a team that works together taking you down and suggest they should not be as strong together.
In the end the we have ball group counters. We have counters to teams that work together. it is called superior tactics and the group you mentioned are the ones who had the superior tactics and you are complaining about that. It really is amazing and I am thinking BGs is not the place for you.
Also, the bar must be very low if running together and spamming heals is considered "superior tactics". Normally I'd expect "superior tactics" to take some player skill to pull off rather than just playing the "right" builds.
It worked well for them and they sent you to the forums complaining about it.
Yes, I tend to complain when something is too strong - if no one brings these things up they never get fixed.
If something works too well compared to the amount of effort & player skill required to pull off said task, there is a balance issue.
Not at all. You are confused about what 4v4v4 is all about since you are running solo. They had superior tactics as they chose to play as a team and you did not. No matter how you attempt to spin it you have made this absolutely clear.
Again with the misguided notion that I run solo.It is my firm belief that these groups who just stack four people in close proximity and run around 4v1'ing people or ulti dumping are the worst thing in ESO's BG system, and the only reason for that is the lack of proper counters to them.
Wonder where I would get the idea you were running solo since this is your second sentence in the OP.
Either way, you were not running with your team and got steamrolled by a group that stuck together or your team just plain got out played.
It is still 4v4v4 and the best way to defeat a group that plays together is to out play them. You are literally complaining because you got outplayed and are making excuses.
Yes, 4v1 is usually what things result in after your 3 team mates die due to getting focused by 4 people and not playing crossheal tanks like they're apparently supposed to.
Now I want you to imagine for a moment a game where you're not pigeonholed into one type of build and playstyle in order to avoid getting "outplayed". Can you see it? Good.
If bad players can "outplay" opponents in a random BG without even knowing they're outplaying them simply by having the matchmaking system randomly throw them in with more heals & tanks than the other team, there's a serious problem.
I'm sorry if you can't see that, I cannot continue here without breaking atleast 3 forum rules.
Dude, you were focused on you facing 4 organized players and mentioning 1v4. Regardless, you are not suggesting your team faced them 4v4 and still lost. That goes back to tactics and strats along with builds. Nothing more and nothing less.
The problem is that it doesn't even need to be an organized team and that there's nothing "organized" about spamming heals & surviving with tank sets.
And if you don't think tank meta right now is a problem, well... let's just say everyone relevant in this game says otherwise.
Makes sense why the random no names don't see it as a problem though, getting killed by better players probably sucks so why not just go full tank & surround yourself by others that can save you (usually accidentally, with a random crossheal) before you die.As much as you can play as you want in this game it doesn’t mean you’re going to be effective. If you refuse to learn, adapt, and use teamwork in a team based setting and then create a thread refusing to listen to any input then you deserve to lose. The better team won, the keyword is team!
Look at you, missing the point entirely. Well done :clap:
The point is that gameplay shouldn't revolve around hoping to get the "better team" (i.e. more heals/tanks) via random matchmaking system, but that wider variety of playstyles should stand a chance of winning if they're better players than the opponents.
The point is that currently with how people build their characters and with how crosshealing works, nobody *** dies in battlegrounds. This is a complaint repeated over and over again by literally every streamer and content creator that focuses on PvP in ESO. It is a reason many old school players are leaving the game.
Also my builds are some of the most effective on PC EU megaserver, as anyone who has fought me can tell. Effectiveness (of ANY) build however wears off when enemies become unkillable due to the amount of cross heals going off.
I take issue with the effectiveness of certain group comps, not with the effectiveness of my own builds (there's around 20 different ones I play atm).Edited by Decimus on January 11, 2020 1:36AM0 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).
The fact is you ran solo, instead of with your team, and faced a team that worked together. It is amazing how you make up excuses for the performance of a team that works together taking you down and suggest they should not be as strong together.
In the end the we have ball group counters. We have counters to teams that work together. it is called superior tactics and the group you mentioned are the ones who had the superior tactics and you are complaining about that. It really is amazing and I am thinking BGs is not the place for you.
Also, the bar must be very low if running together and spamming heals is considered "superior tactics". Normally I'd expect "superior tactics" to take some player skill to pull off rather than just playing the "right" builds.
It worked well for them and they sent you to the forums complaining about it.
Yes, I tend to complain when something is too strong - if no one brings these things up they never get fixed.
If something works too well compared to the amount of effort & player skill required to pull off said task, there is a balance issue.
Not at all. You are confused about what 4v4v4 is all about since you are running solo. They had superior tactics as they chose to play as a team and you did not. No matter how you attempt to spin it you have made this absolutely clear.
Again with the misguided notion that I run solo.It is my firm belief that these groups who just stack four people in close proximity and run around 4v1'ing people or ulti dumping are the worst thing in ESO's BG system, and the only reason for that is the lack of proper counters to them.
Wonder where I would get the idea you were running solo since this is your second sentence in the OP.
Either way, you were not running with your team and got steamrolled by a group that stuck together or your team just plain got out played.
It is still 4v4v4 and the best way to defeat a group that plays together is to out play them. You are literally complaining because you got outplayed and are making excuses.
Yes, 4v1 is usually what things result in after your 3 team mates die due to getting focused by 4 people and not playing crossheal tanks like they're apparently supposed to.
Now I want you to imagine for a moment a game where you're not pigeonholed into one type of build and playstyle in order to avoid getting "outplayed". Can you see it? Good.
If bad players can "outplay" opponents in a random BG without even knowing they're outplaying them simply by having the matchmaking system randomly throw them in with more heals & tanks than the other team, there's a serious problem.
I'm sorry if you can't see that, I cannot continue here without breaking atleast 3 forum rules.
Dude, you were focused on you facing 4 organized players and mentioning 1v4. Regardless, you are not suggesting your team faced them 4v4 and still lost. That goes back to tactics and strats along with builds. Nothing more and nothing less.
The problem is that it doesn't even need to be an organized team and that there's nothing "organized" about spamming heals & surviving with tank sets.
And if you don't think tank meta right now is a problem, well... let's just say everyone relevant in this game says otherwise.
Makes sense why the random no names don't see it as a problem though, getting killed by better players probably sucks so why not just go full tank & surround yourself by others that can save you (usually accidentally, with a random crossheal) before you die.As much as you can play as you want in this game it doesn’t mean you’re going to be effective. If you refuse to learn, adapt, and use teamwork in a team based setting and then create a thread refusing to listen to any input then you deserve to lose. The better team won, the keyword is team!
Look at you, missing the point entirely. Well done :clap:
The point is that gameplay shouldn't revolve around hoping to get the "better team" (i.e. more heals/tanks) via random matchmaking system, but that wider variety of playstyles should stand a chance of winning if they're better players than the opponents.
The point is that currently with how people build their characters and with how crosshealing works, nobody *** dies in battlegrounds. This is a complaint repeated over and over again by literally every streamer and content creator that focuses on PvP in ESO. It is a reason many old school players are leaving the game.
Also hilarious how you think my build(s) aren't effective, considering I go top KDR in almost every single game. Why don't you jump off your high horse and get a reality check? Oh, and read what I write.
I’m not missing the point at all, yes I agree the tanky meta sucks with such easy access to minor/major protection makes the game cheesy af, but if you’re not willing to work as a team in a team based environment then why bother complaining.
I’m also a solo player too and group up a few times a year and I expect to have limitations rather than be salty and btw I never said your build wasn’t effective, you already established that in your op.
0 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).
The fact is you ran solo, instead of with your team, and faced a team that worked together. It is amazing how you make up excuses for the performance of a team that works together taking you down and suggest they should not be as strong together.
In the end the we have ball group counters. We have counters to teams that work together. it is called superior tactics and the group you mentioned are the ones who had the superior tactics and you are complaining about that. It really is amazing and I am thinking BGs is not the place for you.
Also, the bar must be very low if running together and spamming heals is considered "superior tactics". Normally I'd expect "superior tactics" to take some player skill to pull off rather than just playing the "right" builds.
It worked well for them and they sent you to the forums complaining about it.
Yes, I tend to complain when something is too strong - if no one brings these things up they never get fixed.
If something works too well compared to the amount of effort & player skill required to pull off said task, there is a balance issue.
Not at all. You are confused about what 4v4v4 is all about since you are running solo. They had superior tactics as they chose to play as a team and you did not. No matter how you attempt to spin it you have made this absolutely clear.
Again with the misguided notion that I run solo.It is my firm belief that these groups who just stack four people in close proximity and run around 4v1'ing people or ulti dumping are the worst thing in ESO's BG system, and the only reason for that is the lack of proper counters to them.
Wonder where I would get the idea you were running solo since this is your second sentence in the OP.
Either way, you were not running with your team and got steamrolled by a group that stuck together or your team just plain got out played.
It is still 4v4v4 and the best way to defeat a group that plays together is to out play them. You are literally complaining because you got outplayed and are making excuses.
Yes, 4v1 is usually what things result in after your 3 team mates die due to getting focused by 4 people and not playing crossheal tanks like they're apparently supposed to.
Now I want you to imagine for a moment a game where you're not pigeonholed into one type of build and playstyle in order to avoid getting "outplayed". Can you see it? Good.
If bad players can "outplay" opponents in a random BG without even knowing they're outplaying them simply by having the matchmaking system randomly throw them in with more heals & tanks than the other team, there's a serious problem.
I'm sorry if you can't see that, I cannot continue here without breaking atleast 3 forum rules.
Dude, you were focused on you facing 4 organized players and mentioning 1v4. Regardless, you are not suggesting your team faced them 4v4 and still lost. That goes back to tactics and strats along with builds. Nothing more and nothing less.
The problem is that it doesn't even need to be an organized team and that there's nothing "organized" about spamming heals & surviving with tank sets.
And if you don't think tank meta right now is a problem, well... let's just say everyone relevant in this game says otherwise.
Makes sense why the random no names don't see it as a problem though, getting killed by better players probably sucks so why not just go full tank & surround yourself by others that can save you (usually accidentally, with a random crossheal) before you die.As much as you can play as you want in this game it doesn’t mean you’re going to be effective. If you refuse to learn, adapt, and use teamwork in a team based setting and then create a thread refusing to listen to any input then you deserve to lose. The better team won, the keyword is team!
Look at you, missing the point entirely. Well done :clap:
The point is that gameplay shouldn't revolve around hoping to get the "better team" (i.e. more heals/tanks) via random matchmaking system, but that wider variety of playstyles should stand a chance of winning if they're better players than the opponents.
The point is that currently with how people build their characters and with how crosshealing works, nobody *** dies in battlegrounds. This is a complaint repeated over and over again by literally every streamer and content creator that focuses on PvP in ESO. It is a reason many old school players are leaving the game.
Also hilarious how you think my build(s) aren't effective, considering I go top KDR in almost every single game. Why don't you jump off your high horse and get a reality check? Oh, and read what I write.
I’m not missing the point at all, yes I agree the tanky meta sucks with such easy access to minor/major protection makes the game cheesy af, but if you’re not willing to work as a team in a team based environment then why bother complaining.
I’m also a solo player too and group up a few times a year and I expect to have limitations rather than be salty and btw I never said your build wasn’t effective, you already established that in your op.
I never said that in my original post (few months old btw). And never did I say I'm not working with my team, anyone who has seen my streams can tell I do that a lot, regardless of class/build I'm playing.
The thread is about certain group comps (crossheals & tanks) carrying too much right now in a random queue, where you have no control over whether you have those and/or whether your opponent teams have them.
Whoever has them wins however regardless of the skill level of those players, so obviously something is broken.
I refuse to believe anyone in this game has fun fighting 4 unkillable players spamming twilight heals and block+BoLs on each other while hiding behind block, only occasionally spamming fury to steal kills if you don't focus them.
Edited my previous reply btw since it was a bit rude, my apologies - maybe you think I'm a new player or something and that's why you phrased things that way. I may be well known on PC EU, but I'd guess not that many NA or console players know me.Edited by Decimus on January 11, 2020 1:49AM0 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.Just bringing this up again, because it is still a problem.
BGs right now on PC EU consist of nothing else than 4-man groups sticking together and clashing with other 4 man groups, which typically results in endless AoE fiesta where it's like rolling the dice on which sorc with Endless Fury gets the kill for their team when someone eventually drops low from someone else's burst.
That’s literally what Battlegrounds were designed for: a 4 player team against two other teams.
If you don’t want to fight a coordinated team, stick to duels.
>,>
This. Exactly.
If someone goes into a 4v4v4 match and plays solo there is no reason they should expect it to go well. Even more so if the do not even try to build for such gameplay.
Actually I do expect it to go well as long as enemy teams don't consist of 4 crosshealing cowards in tank setups, and I have plenty of good recorded & streamed BGs to prove that.
The game is more or less balanced when you get stamina builds vs stamina builds or magicka builds that don't all stick together spamming heals on each other, or magicka builds that build around getting kills rather than not dying.
Sheesh, I can't believe there's people actually cheerleading the current meta. But then again, I should have no expectations when it comes to ESO forums...
You are literally complaining because one team out played yours and blaming it on them using solid builds and teamwork and even admitting you did not contribute to working with your team as you ran around solo.
Yes, I guess doing 2,2m damage on a burst oriented build didn't contribute to group :yikes:
And how did that work out for you? Oh yea, you created this thread complaining dying because you did not play as a team in a team event.
And you tell me I should stop writing. Seems you need to start listening since most of the replies in here have a common message and that pretty much says you are wrong.
How did it work out for me? In a frustrating BG but positive KDR. And then Alt+F4.
How do you think running around in a ball group as a bowblade would work out?
Please get over the notion that playing as a team = running around in a ball spamming crossheals.
Besides, you can't pick your group mates - sometimes you get people who heal you other times you don't. Is it up to matchmaking RNG to decide how games end, rather than skill of the individual players in the group?
If we're at the point where stamina builds shouldn't exist in battlegrounds bc they can't crossheal, perhaps there is a problem.
When games are determined by overperforming aspects of the game (crossheals, tankiness) rather than how those games are played.
Also, I don't really give much weigh to what the no name muppets over here write - pretty much every competent BG player I've talked to on PC EU at the very least agrees that the tank meta is out of control in BGs, and ball groups crosshealing each other is the biggest contributor to that (as long as people are too tanky to instagib before heals kick in, which I don't think should be possible btw).
The fact is you ran solo, instead of with your team, and faced a team that worked together. It is amazing how you make up excuses for the performance of a team that works together taking you down and suggest they should not be as strong together.
In the end the we have ball group counters. We have counters to teams that work together. it is called superior tactics and the group you mentioned are the ones who had the superior tactics and you are complaining about that. It really is amazing and I am thinking BGs is not the place for you.
Also, the bar must be very low if running together and spamming heals is considered "superior tactics". Normally I'd expect "superior tactics" to take some player skill to pull off rather than just playing the "right" builds.
It worked well for them and they sent you to the forums complaining about it.
Yes, I tend to complain when something is too strong - if no one brings these things up they never get fixed.
If something works too well compared to the amount of effort & player skill required to pull off said task, there is a balance issue.
Not at all. You are confused about what 4v4v4 is all about since you are running solo. They had superior tactics as they chose to play as a team and you did not. No matter how you attempt to spin it you have made this absolutely clear.
Again with the misguided notion that I run solo.It is my firm belief that these groups who just stack four people in close proximity and run around 4v1'ing people or ulti dumping are the worst thing in ESO's BG system, and the only reason for that is the lack of proper counters to them.
Wonder where I would get the idea you were running solo since this is your second sentence in the OP.
Either way, you were not running with your team and got steamrolled by a group that stuck together or your team just plain got out played.
It is still 4v4v4 and the best way to defeat a group that plays together is to out play them. You are literally complaining because you got outplayed and are making excuses.
Yes, 4v1 is usually what things result in after your 3 team mates die due to getting focused by 4 people and not playing crossheal tanks like they're apparently supposed to.
Now I want you to imagine for a moment a game where you're not pigeonholed into one type of build and playstyle in order to avoid getting "outplayed". Can you see it? Good.
If bad players can "outplay" opponents in a random BG without even knowing they're outplaying them simply by having the matchmaking system randomly throw them in with more heals & tanks than the other team, there's a serious problem.
I'm sorry if you can't see that, I cannot continue here without breaking atleast 3 forum rules.
Dude, you were focused on you facing 4 organized players and mentioning 1v4. Regardless, you are not suggesting your team faced them 4v4 and still lost. That goes back to tactics and strats along with builds. Nothing more and nothing less.
The problem is that it doesn't even need to be an organized team and that there's nothing "organized" about spamming heals & surviving with tank sets.
And if you don't think tank meta right now is a problem, well... let's just say everyone relevant in this game says otherwise.
Makes sense why the random no names don't see it as a problem though, getting killed by better players probably sucks so why not just go full tank & surround yourself by others that can save you (usually accidentally, with a random crossheal) before you die.As much as you can play as you want in this game it doesn’t mean you’re going to be effective. If you refuse to learn, adapt, and use teamwork in a team based setting and then create a thread refusing to listen to any input then you deserve to lose. The better team won, the keyword is team!
Look at you, missing the point entirely. Well done :clap:
The point is that gameplay shouldn't revolve around hoping to get the "better team" (i.e. more heals/tanks) via random matchmaking system, but that wider variety of playstyles should stand a chance of winning if they're better players than the opponents.
The point is that currently with how people build their characters and with how crosshealing works, nobody *** dies in battlegrounds. This is a complaint repeated over and over again by literally every streamer and content creator that focuses on PvP in ESO. It is a reason many old school players are leaving the game.
Also hilarious how you think my build(s) aren't effective, considering I go top KDR in almost every single game. Why don't you jump off your high horse and get a reality check? Oh, and read what I write.
I’m not missing the point at all, yes I agree the tanky meta sucks with such easy access to minor/major protection makes the game cheesy af, but if you’re not willing to work as a team in a team based environment then why bother complaining.
I’m also a solo player too and group up a few times a year and I expect to have limitations rather than be salty and btw I never said your build wasn’t effective, you already established that in your op.
I never said that in my original post (few months old btw). And never did I say I'm not working with my team, anyone who has seen my streams can tell I do that a lot, regardless of class/build I'm playing.
The thread is about certain group comps (crossheals & tanks) carrying too much right now in a random queue, where you have no control over whether you have those and/or whether your opponent teams have them.
Whoever has them wins however regardless of the skill level of those players, so obviously something is broken.
I refuse to believe anyone in this game has fun fighting 4 unkillable players spamming twilight heals and block+BoLs on each other while hiding behind block, only occasionally spamming fury to steal kills if you don't focus them.
Edited my previous reply btw since it was a bit rude, my apologies - maybe you think I'm a new player or something and that's why you phrased things that way. I may be well known on PC EU, but I'd guess not that many NA or console players know me.
No need to apologize, I get it. It’s extremely frustrating especially as a solo player. There have been tons of posts and YouTube videos about it so hopefully they will make some adjustments in the near future. My ego makes me want to keep fighting these types, but I’ve learned to walk away from them in cyro which really isn’t an option in bg’s so I can see where you would want to rage. My biggest complaint is performance, it’s hard to say what needs to be fixed or adjusted when the game doesn’t work properly.
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