Why do Stamina classes hit harder?

siddique

Is there a specific reason behind it? Or just the continuous nerfs to mag made it so?

Stamsorc hits harder than magsorc (this is absurd, it's a sorcerer. It should have more power to it's magic than stamina!)

Stamcro hits harder than magcro
And so on.

hakan

its not like stam sorc hits harder with class abilities. class abilities for stam is utility most of the time.

FearlessOne_2014

Because it's Elder Stamina Online. Either roll Stamina or be gimped. Most of the forum and playerbase have already adapted to this long time ago. There are only a few of us Magicka hold outs. I suspect out of us, a good majority of us don't find nearly as much pleasure in this game, nor put many more hours into it.

Either roll Stamina for competitive play both PvP and PvE. Or casually don't care and play as a gimped caster. The choice is yours. But ZOSes and the community's vision of ESO these days are as clear as day. Magicka for casual play and Stamina for competitive play. Nobody can paint the picture any clearer at this point.

You wanna be competitive in small group, or solo, and outside of a zerg. Than you have to either roll stamina, or be many times better than the stamina players you are competing against. Be it PvP or PvE. It's as simple as that!

juhislihis19

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Because it's Elder Stamina Online. Either roll Stamina or be gimped. Most of the forum and playerbase have already adapted to this long time ago. There are only a few of us Magicka hold outs. I suspect out of us, a good majority of us don't find nearly as much pleasure in this game, nor put many more hours into it.

Either roll Stamina for competitive play both PvP and PvE. Or casually don't care and play as a gimped caster. The choice is yours. But ZOSes and the community's vision of ESO these days are as clear as day. Magicka for casual play and Stamina for competitive play. Nobody can paint the picture any clearer at this point.

You wanna be competitive in small group, or solo, and outside of a zerg. Than you have to either roll stamina, or be many times better than the stamina players you are competing against. Be it PvP or PvE. It's as simple as that!

And yet, MagSorc and MagPlar are arguably the most efficient classes in PVP at the moment. MagDK was there until the recent DoT nerfs and cost increase. How come?

FearlessOne_2014

juhislihis19 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Because it's Elder Stamina Online. Either roll Stamina or be gimped. Most of the forum and playerbase have already adapted to this long time ago. There are only a few of us Magicka hold outs. I suspect out of us, a good majority of us don't find nearly as much pleasure in this game, nor put many more hours into it.

Either roll Stamina for competitive play both PvP and PvE. Or casually don't care and play as a gimped caster. The choice is yours. But ZOSes and the community's vision of ESO these days are as clear as day. Magicka for casual play and Stamina for competitive play. Nobody can paint the picture any clearer at this point.

You wanna be competitive in small group, or solo, and outside of a zerg. Than you have to either roll stamina, or be many times better than the stamina players you are competing against. Be it PvP or PvE. It's as simple as that!

And yet, MagSorc and MagPlar are arguably the most efficient classes in PVP at the moment. MagDK was there until the recent DoT nerfs and cost increase. How come?

For zerging maybe. But outside that stack not so much. Not everyone wants to be a zergling, and not everyone wants to have to run stamina.

This patch Stamplar, StamCro are killing it in solo and small scale PvP with StamDK and magSorc not so far behind. After that RIP magicka specs.

Pauls

Swords are harder than sticks.

kollege14a5

Usually because stamina can run more dmg and sustain with heavy attacks. Stamina is also meele most of the time while magicka is mostly ranged.

siddique

I miss my frag that used to stun.

Kel

kollege14a5 wrote: »

Usually because stamina can run more dmg and sustain with heavy attacks. Stamina is also meele most of the time while magicka is mostly ranged.

This.
Seems like a trade off. You can pick at a melee before that player reaches you. Far easier if that stam player doesn't use a gap closer. Again, counter by most magicka classes having access to shields. (Both in light armor and resto skill lines)

I did see a sorc fighting a templar the other day. Templar would gap close and the sorc would streak away. This went on for about 10 minutes before I went along on my business.
Dumbest *** I've ever seen. I swear I heard the 'ol Benny Hill theme playing when I was watching that horrendous display. 😖🤦‍♂️

siddique

Lol I'm a magsorc and I hate streak.

FierceSam

I will call bollocks on this

My stam characters do not hit nearly as hard as my mag ones. My mag Templar is simply offensively offensive. Consistently 10 - 20k more DPS than my stam characters. Stupidly, stupidly more offensive.

My view is that ZOS have never understood stam characters. They force all of them to use a single weapon (and skill line) for ranged attacks, then use a separate weapon for most of their close quarters attacks. This, combined with a lack of stam morphs for many class skills means the result is a one size fits all, cookie cutter stam build that reduces class skills to nothing but passive support.

Hopefully this is changing. You can actually build a functioning stam Necro using mainly class skills, which isn’t true for other classes. And it looks like some attention is being applied to this issue.

But there’s a reason why it’s all mag characters for top level content. And it ain’t because stam characters are overpowered.

Ysbriel

Well perhaps the sorcerers lighting is above 0.2 amps

siddique

FierceSam wrote: »

I will call bollocks on this

My stam characters do not hit nearly as hard as my mag ones. My mag Templar is simply offensively offensive. Consistently 10 - 20k more DPS than my stam characters. Stupidly, stupidly more offensive.

My view is that ZOS have never understood stam characters. They force all of them to use a single weapon (and skill line) for ranged attacks, then use a separate weapon for most of their close quarters attacks. This, combined with a lack of stam morphs for many class skills means the result is a one size fits all, cookie cutter stam build that reduces class skills to nothing but passive support.

Hopefully this is changing. You can actually build a functioning stam Necro using mainly class skills, which isn’t true for other classes. And it looks like some attention is being applied to this issue.

But there’s a reason why it’s all mag characters for top level content. And it ain’t because stam characters are overpowered.

I believe you switched between mag/stam. It's all stam characters for top level content. The world record for vCR3 was done with stamcros. Also, you must be doing something wrong if your Stam doesn't hit as hard as your mag.

If a mag hits 80k, a stam hits 90.

Luede

siddique wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

I will call bollocks on this

My stam characters do not hit nearly as hard as my mag ones. My mag Templar is simply offensively offensive. Consistently 10 - 20k more DPS than my stam characters. Stupidly, stupidly more offensive.

My view is that ZOS have never understood stam characters. They force all of them to use a single weapon (and skill line) for ranged attacks, then use a separate weapon for most of their close quarters attacks. This, combined with a lack of stam morphs for many class skills means the result is a one size fits all, cookie cutter stam build that reduces class skills to nothing but passive support.

Hopefully this is changing. You can actually build a functioning stam Necro using mainly class skills, which isn’t true for other classes. And it looks like some attention is being applied to this issue.

But there’s a reason why it’s all mag characters for top level content. And it ain’t because stam characters are overpowered.

I believe you switched between mag/stam. It's all stam characters for top level content. The world record for vCR3 was done with stamcros. Also, you must be doing something wrong if your Stam doesn't hit as hard as your mag.

If a mag hits 80k, a stam hits 90.

then maybe u should start to complain if u reach ur 80k

juhislihis19

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

juhislihis19 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Because it's Elder Stamina Online. Either roll Stamina or be gimped. Most of the forum and playerbase have already adapted to this long time ago. There are only a few of us Magicka hold outs. I suspect out of us, a good majority of us don't find nearly as much pleasure in this game, nor put many more hours into it.

Either roll Stamina for competitive play both PvP and PvE. Or casually don't care and play as a gimped caster. The choice is yours. But ZOSes and the community's vision of ESO these days are as clear as day. Magicka for casual play and Stamina for competitive play. Nobody can paint the picture any clearer at this point.

You wanna be competitive in small group, or solo, and outside of a zerg. Than you have to either roll stamina, or be many times better than the stamina players you are competing against. Be it PvP or PvE. It's as simple as that!

And yet, MagSorc and MagPlar are arguably the most efficient classes in PVP at the moment. MagDK was there until the recent DoT nerfs and cost increase. How come?

For zerging maybe. But outside that stack not so much. Not everyone wants to be a zergling, and not everyone wants to have to run stamina.

This patch Stamplar, StamCro are killing it in solo and small scale PvP with StamDK and magSorc not so far behind. After that RIP magicka specs.

Maybe we are playing a different game because I see mainly MagPlars and MagSorcs in open world, solo or in a small group. More StamBlades as well. StamPlars too. Hardly see any Necro's anywhere, but it's good if Necro is doing better, because they've been in a slump since they launched.

I don't pay attention which classes play in zergs, and neither should you because it doesn't matter.

NeillMcAttack

Just because stamina can parse a little higher in no way means they are more efficient. In fact, bar mag DK, due to the fact that it is hard to always DPS in melee range in any of the more difficult trials or dungeons, in the trials I have been in it is clear that mag builds are far more consistent in dealing damage.

It’s only since relequin, that stam has even had that edge. A set that isn’t even the strongest set to run many encounters.

ShadowKyuubi

This is a PVE point of view. The reason stamina hit harder is because they lack the survivability of magicka classes. Sure, stamina have vigor, but that isn't damage mitigation. A 20k hit, still hits for 20k with vigor applied. A 20k hit with a shield hit for, let's say 15k. Hence the magicka toon survives.

If we look at a very specific case of vMA, which character are you most likely to run? Magicka or Stamina? There is a very specific reason most people suggest a Magsorc/Magblade as your first run through. The mantra for stamina in that place is kill it before it kills you, people who have run vMA as stamina know exactly what I mean. While magicka can take a slow burn approach, stamina cannot.

So it comes down to a tradeoff. Stamina have more damage at the risk of dying more often. Magicka have less damage for a bit of a safety net. Now, a one shot mechanic is still a one shot, so an argument can be made that it doesn't matter, but at the end of the day, if you are dying to a one-shot mechanic it is a L2P issue regardless of Stam or mag.

siddique

Luede wrote: »

siddique wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

I will call bollocks on this

My stam characters do not hit nearly as hard as my mag ones. My mag Templar is simply offensively offensive. Consistently 10 - 20k more DPS than my stam characters. Stupidly, stupidly more offensive.

My view is that ZOS have never understood stam characters. They force all of them to use a single weapon (and skill line) for ranged attacks, then use a separate weapon for most of their close quarters attacks. This, combined with a lack of stam morphs for many class skills means the result is a one size fits all, cookie cutter stam build that reduces class skills to nothing but passive support.

Hopefully this is changing. You can actually build a functioning stam Necro using mainly class skills, which isn’t true for other classes. And it looks like some attention is being applied to this issue.

But there’s a reason why it’s all mag characters for top level content. And it ain’t because stam characters are overpowered.

I believe you switched between mag/stam. It's all stam characters for top level content. The world record for vCR3 was done with stamcros. Also, you must be doing something wrong if your Stam doesn't hit as hard as your mag.

If a mag hits 80k, a stam hits 90.

then maybe u should start to complain if u reach ur 80k

Erm, what?

BeamsForDemacia

Isn’t current cr record by mc on magickas ? , and yeah stamina hits harder most of the time , still u can get amazing scores especially in cr and as with magickas and it’s not for casuals , ofc if u tryhard in raids There is for all other trials no reason to play mag still they are very decent and allow u to get triple achievements

BeamsForDemacia

@siddique

5cript

Regarding Battlegrounds, this is no longer true.
Last Patch brought (all?) magicka builds on the same level or above even.
EDIT: At least MagSorc (was already good before), magplar is very strong, mag dk ist still good, mag warden is strong, mag necro is strong if played right)

Regarding PvE I just have to say that hitting decent dps is easier for casuals with a mag char.

Huyen

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Because it's Elder Stamina Online. Either roll Stamina or be gimped. Most of the forum and playerbase have already adapted to this long time ago. There are only a few of us Magicka hold outs. I suspect out of us, a good majority of us don't find nearly as much pleasure in this game, nor put many more hours into it.

Either roll Stamina for competitive play both PvP and PvE. Or casually don't care and play as a gimped caster. The choice is yours. But ZOSes and the community's vision of ESO these days are as clear as day. Magicka for casual play and Stamina for competitive play. Nobody can paint the picture any clearer at this point.

You wanna be competitive in small group, or solo, and outside of a zerg. Than you have to either roll stamina, or be many times better than the stamina players you are competing against. Be it PvP or PvE. It's as simple as that!

When ESO launched in 2014, magicka was the only way to do decent dps. It goes back and forth.

ShadowKyuubi

Huyen wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Because it's Elder Stamina Online. Either roll Stamina or be gimped. Most of the forum and playerbase have already adapted to this long time ago. There are only a few of us Magicka hold outs. I suspect out of us, a good majority of us don't find nearly as much pleasure in this game, nor put many more hours into it.

Either roll Stamina for competitive play both PvP and PvE. Or casually don't care and play as a gimped caster. The choice is yours. But ZOSes and the community's vision of ESO these days are as clear as day. Magicka for casual play and Stamina for competitive play. Nobody can paint the picture any clearer at this point.

You wanna be competitive in small group, or solo, and outside of a zerg. Than you have to either roll stamina, or be many times better than the stamina players you are competing against. Be it PvP or PvE. It's as simple as that!

When ESO launched in 2014, magicka was the only way to do decent dps. It goes back and forth.

Magplars back in 2014...what a time to be alive.

GrimTheReaper45

cough lokke cough

and better sustain

Luede

siddique wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

siddique wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

I will call bollocks on this

My stam characters do not hit nearly as hard as my mag ones. My mag Templar is simply offensively offensive. Consistently 10 - 20k more DPS than my stam characters. Stupidly, stupidly more offensive.

My view is that ZOS have never understood stam characters. They force all of them to use a single weapon (and skill line) for ranged attacks, then use a separate weapon for most of their close quarters attacks. This, combined with a lack of stam morphs for many class skills means the result is a one size fits all, cookie cutter stam build that reduces class skills to nothing but passive support.

Hopefully this is changing. You can actually build a functioning stam Necro using mainly class skills, which isn’t true for other classes. And it looks like some attention is being applied to this issue.

But there’s a reason why it’s all mag characters for top level content. And it ain’t because stam characters are overpowered.

I believe you switched between mag/stam. It's all stam characters for top level content. The world record for vCR3 was done with stamcros. Also, you must be doing something wrong if your Stam doesn't hit as hard as your mag.

If a mag hits 80k, a stam hits 90.

then maybe u should start to complain if u reach ur 80k

Erm, what?

how mutch dps u get on the test dummy, do u reach 80k? if u reach maybe 30k it doesnt matter what numbers fly in best case. stamina hits harder because its close combat. are encounters designed to stay the whole time in close combat?

siddique

Luede wrote: »

siddique wrote: »

Luede wrote: »

siddique wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

I will call bollocks on this

My stam characters do not hit nearly as hard as my mag ones. My mag Templar is simply offensively offensive. Consistently 10 - 20k more DPS than my stam characters. Stupidly, stupidly more offensive.

My view is that ZOS have never understood stam characters. They force all of them to use a single weapon (and skill line) for ranged attacks, then use a separate weapon for most of their close quarters attacks. This, combined with a lack of stam morphs for many class skills means the result is a one size fits all, cookie cutter stam build that reduces class skills to nothing but passive support.

Hopefully this is changing. You can actually build a functioning stam Necro using mainly class skills, which isn’t true for other classes. And it looks like some attention is being applied to this issue.

But there’s a reason why it’s all mag characters for top level content. And it ain’t because stam characters are overpowered.

I believe you switched between mag/stam. It's all stam characters for top level content. The world record for vCR3 was done with stamcros. Also, you must be doing something wrong if your Stam doesn't hit as hard as your mag.

If a mag hits 80k, a stam hits 90.

then maybe u should start to complain if u reach ur 80k

Erm, what?

how mutch dps u get on the test dummy, do u reach 80k? if u reach maybe 30k it doesnt matter what numbers fly in best case. stamina hits harder because its close combat. are encounters designed to stay the whole time in close combat?

How does what I hit matter with respect to my original question? It does not.

siddique

BeamsForDemacia wrote: »

Isn’t current cr record by mc on magickas ? , and yeah stamina hits harder most of the time , still u can get amazing scores especially in cr and as with magickas and it’s not for casuals , ofc if u tryhard in raids There is for all other trials no reason to play mag still they are very decent and allow u to get triple achievements

Isn't MC from PC NA the record holder? As far as I know most were stamcros.

FENGRUSH

Magsorc can burst harder than stam sorc. OP is mistaken.

khajiitNPC

Sounds like you need to adjust your magBuilds if you’re hitting like a wet noodle. All classes regardless of prime damage pool can and do perform optimally in the right hands.

Austinseph1

Maybe it’s just the way they play but the only stam style I can stand is bow/bow. I have a stamblade I play on once in a while and post patch it’s by far my least favorite to play. I tried to optimize it but the more I try to play on it the more bored I get. It’s more than likely the style of focusing all your damage into the last 25% of the fight and the other 75% is bland af.

TheUrbanWizard

Nerf sorcs