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STONE GIANT... are you serious, lol?
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universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭I would love to use it instead of power slame, but it cost way too much for a spamable.
The idea of giant morph cost so much is because it return stam on use which is imo is unvalid reason. Giant morph cost approximately 990 more stamina than other spammables, if you are the stamin return from helping hand passive, giant morph should in somehow have an eaual cost to other spammables, very bad design. It should have been move to other skill line, ohherwise, reducing its cost now will only make it too cheap in compirason to other spammables.0 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I was thinking what will make me use this and what stamDK lacks... stamDK lacks class gap closer. Yeah, we can use crit rush, but bar space is tight with claw and noxious already.
So I think adding gap closer when stacks are consumed and target is stunned will make this ability into a nice one.
Empowering chains?
empowering chains? on stamDK? Seriously?
And here I was thinking my build can't get worse than it already is, thanks , I'll slot empowering chains on STAMDK. That way I'll deliver free AP to my enemies , but with style.
gap closers are utility skills, doesn't matter that they use mag or stam, plus you get empower, which is agnostic when it comes to weapon type. chains is really good, no idea what is making you be so obtuse about it.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »I would love to use it instead of power slame, but it cost way too much for a spamable.
The idea of giant morph cost so much is because it return stam on use which is imo is unvalid reason. Giant morph cost approximately 990 more stamina than other spammables, if you are the stamin return from helping hand passive, giant morph should in somehow have an eaual cost to other spammables, very bad design. It should have been move to other skill line, ohherwise, reducing its cost now will only make it too cheap in compirason to other spammables.
It mainly feels expensive because the skill misses A LOT and it needs to hit 3 times to get a reward out of it. Using it with another stun lets you land it a few times but at that point you're basically making an inefficient skill layout.
It reminds me of old power lash stun that nobody really used because you stunned the guy with foss to get the power lash proc anyways. Kind of a similar scenario I guess.Edited by Ragnarock41 on November 19, 2019 6:05AM0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I was thinking what will make me use this and what stamDK lacks... stamDK lacks class gap closer. Yeah, we can use crit rush, but bar space is tight with claw and noxious already.
So I think adding gap closer when stacks are consumed and target is stunned will make this ability into a nice one.
Empowering chains?
empowering chains? on stamDK? Seriously?
And here I was thinking my build can't get worse than it already is, thanks , I'll slot empowering chains on STAMDK. That way I'll deliver free AP to my enemies , but with style.
Crit rush on stam dk?OG_Kaveman wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I was thinking what will make me use this and what stamDK lacks... stamDK lacks class gap closer. Yeah, we can use crit rush, but bar space is tight with claw and noxious already.
So I think adding gap closer when stacks are consumed and target is stunned will make this ability into a nice one.
Empowering chains?
empowering chains? on stamDK? Seriously?
And here I was thinking my build can't get worse than it already is, thanks , I'll slot empowering chains on STAMDK. That way I'll deliver free AP to my enemies , but with style.
gap closers are utility skills, doesn't matter that they use mag or stam, plus you get empower, which is agnostic when it comes to weapon type. chains is really good, no idea what is making you be so obtuse about it.
Poeple don't know that streak is utility skill as well. Also, if you ever get the chance try to figh mag sorcs indoor, you will negafe their streaks. Never fught stam sorcs indoor, better to fight them outdoor.1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »I would love to use it instead of power slame, but it cost way too much for a spamable.
The idea of giant morph cost so much is because it return stam on use which is imo is unvalid reason. Giant morph cost approximately 990 more stamina than other spammables, if you are the stamin return from helping hand passive, giant morph should in somehow have an eaual cost to other spammables, very bad design. It should have been move to other skill line, ohherwise, reducing its cost now will only make it too cheap in compirason to other spammables.
It mainly feels expensive because the skill misses A LOT and it needs to hit 3 times to get a reward out of it. Using it with another stun lets you land it a few times but at that point you're basically making an inefficient skill layout.
It reminds me of old power lash stun that nobody really used because you stunned the guy with foss to get the power lash proc anyways. Kind of a similar scenario I guess.
The skill has been tested in pve and it seens the dmg increase it provides boost the other all dps by almost 5k . As for pvp, you can think of it as another sorc of stun, albiet unrelaible as fossilze because you can't conteol it as much. Need time to get used to it just like dizzy med weave attack stun.1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »I would love to use it instead of power slame, but it cost way too much for a spamable.
The idea of giant morph cost so much is because it return stam on use which is imo is unvalid reason. Giant morph cost approximately 990 more stamina than other spammables, if you are the stamin return from helping hand passive, giant morph should in somehow have an eaual cost to other spammables, very bad design. It should have been move to other skill line, ohherwise, reducing its cost now will only make it too cheap in compirason to other spammables.
It mainly feels expensive because the skill misses A LOT and it needs to hit 3 times to get a reward out of it. Using it with another stun lets you land it a few times but at that point you're basically making an inefficient skill layout.
It reminds me of old power lash stun that nobody really used because you stunned the guy with foss to get the power lash proc anyways. Kind of a similar scenario I guess.
The skill has been tested in pve and it seens the dmg increase it provides boost the other all dps by almost 5k . As for pvp, you can think of it as another sorc of stun, albiet unrelaible as fossilze because you can't conteol it as much. Need time to get used to it just like dizzy med weave attack stun.
The stun is literally irrelevant in PvE, The damage increase is literally irrelevant in PvP. Thats all there is to it. Only the absolute worst would trust stonefist to get a stun off.
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »OG_Kaveman wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »I was thinking what will make me use this and what stamDK lacks... stamDK lacks class gap closer. Yeah, we can use crit rush, but bar space is tight with claw and noxious already.
So I think adding gap closer when stacks are consumed and target is stunned will make this ability into a nice one.
Empowering chains?
empowering chains? on stamDK? Seriously?
And here I was thinking my build can't get worse than it already is, thanks , I'll slot empowering chains on STAMDK. That way I'll deliver free AP to my enemies , but with style.
gap closers are utility skills, doesn't matter that they use mag or stam, plus you get empower, which is agnostic when it comes to weapon type. chains is really good, no idea what is making you be so obtuse about it.
You're just so out of touch with PvP it makes one wonder what makes you think you should participate in a PvP related thread. I feel like no matter how good of an explanation I do, It'll just go right over your head.Edited by Ragnarock41 on November 19, 2019 6:25AM2 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »I would love to use it instead of power slame, but it cost way too much for a spamable.
The idea of giant morph cost so much is because it return stam on use which is imo is unvalid reason. Giant morph cost approximately 990 more stamina than other spammables, if you are the stamin return from helping hand passive, giant morph should in somehow have an eaual cost to other spammables, very bad design. It should have been move to other skill line, ohherwise, reducing its cost now will only make it too cheap in compirason to other spammables.
It mainly feels expensive because the skill misses A LOT and it needs to hit 3 times to get a reward out of it. Using it with another stun lets you land it a few times but at that point you're basically making an inefficient skill layout.
It reminds me of old power lash stun that nobody really used because you stunned the guy with foss to get the power lash proc anyways. Kind of a similar scenario I guess.
The skill has been tested in pve and it seens the dmg increase it provides boost the other all dps by almost 5k . As for pvp, you can think of it as another sorc of stun, albiet unrelaible as fossilze because you can't conteol it as much. Need time to get used to it just like dizzy med weave attack stun.
The stun is literally irrelevant in PvE, The damage increase is literally irrelevant in PvP. Thats all there is to it. Only the absolute worst would trust stonefist to get a stun off.
As I mentioned, some parts of the skill is pve related and other parts are pvp. The implemnation of both part is bad to begin with, but is only part of the justification to highee cost increase. Main reason is helping hand passive. You can look at crushing weapons, more plain than giant stone, heals for 25% of dmg done good in pve, very bad in pvp because you can only get about 400-600 heals due to battle spirit.
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »universal_wrath wrote: »I would love to use it instead of power slame, but it cost way too much for a spamable.
The idea of giant morph cost so much is because it return stam on use which is imo is unvalid reason. Giant morph cost approximately 990 more stamina than other spammables, if you are the stamin return from helping hand passive, giant morph should in somehow have an eaual cost to other spammables, very bad design. It should have been move to other skill line, ohherwise, reducing its cost now will only make it too cheap in compirason to other spammables.
It mainly feels expensive because the skill misses A LOT and it needs to hit 3 times to get a reward out of it. Using it with another stun lets you land it a few times but at that point you're basically making an inefficient skill layout.
It reminds me of old power lash stun that nobody really used because you stunned the guy with foss to get the power lash proc anyways. Kind of a similar scenario I guess.
The skill has been tested in pve and it seens the dmg increase it provides boost the other all dps by almost 5k . As for pvp, you can think of it as another sorc of stun, albiet unrelaible as fossilze because you can't conteol it as much. Need time to get used to it just like dizzy med weave attack stun.
The stun is literally irrelevant in PvE, The damage increase is literally irrelevant in PvP. Thats all there is to it. Only the absolute worst would trust stonefist to get a stun off.
As I mentioned, some parts of the skill is pve related and other parts are pvp. The implemnation of both part is bad to begin with, but is only part of the justification to highee cost increase. Main reason is helping hand passive. You can look at crushing weapons, more plain than giant stone, heals for 25% of dmg done good in pve, very bad in pvp because you can only get about 400-600 heals due to battle spirit.
I wouldn't call the cost high.I was trying to imply that people believe the cost is high because the ability is VERY, VERY unreliable. The cost and tooltip seems fine to me, Its literally everything else I dislike about the skill.
As for crushing weapons, I'd like to think of that skill as some extra burst rather than a spammable. Since you can cast it and weave it with another ability. And the heal is not very great, just as you said.Edited by Ragnarock41 on November 19, 2019 6:47AM1 -
Van_Winkle✭✭✭✭Lmfao another DK complaining as usual. How about you donate the only 2 in 1 CC in game? Just donate fossilize out. I’m sure wardens would trade you arctic wind any day. Oh *** wait that’s melee range. I guess that’s not a ranged cc eh? Oh NBs you have cloak so we don’t worry about you. We DKs. DKs suck with that no cast time leap. DKs suck with that fossilize. DK sucks with cauterize and morphs being the most efficient heal or dmg/resource spent. DKs just don’t have anything!
oh no, what am I gonna do as a Necro. We don’t have ranged stun. Do we just outsource it from flame clench or vamp drain like magDKs. MagDKs nO RaNgED sTUn. MagDKs only that *** fossilize. It sucks so bad it costs both undo stun and roll dodge to just cancel out one skill worth of cc. Q_Q plz let’s agree with other fellow DKs so we can buff more buff MOAR. ZoS we want MOAR BuFFz.
Said like a lord.0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Van_Winkle wrote: »Lmfao another DK complaining as usual. How about you donate the only 2 in 1 CC in game? Just donate fossilize out. I’m sure wardens would trade you arctic wind any day. Oh *** wait that’s melee range. I guess that’s not a ranged cc eh? Oh NBs you have cloak so we don’t worry about you. We DKs. DKs suck with that no cast time leap. DKs suck with that fossilize. DK sucks with cauterize and morphs being the most efficient heal or dmg/resource spent. DKs just don’t have anything! oh no, what am I gonna do as a Necro. We don’t have ranged stun. Do we just outsource it from flame clench or vamp drain like magDKs. MagDKs nO RaNgED sTUn. MagDKs only that *** fossilize. It sucks so bad it costs both undo stun and roll dodge to just cancel out one skill worth of cc. Q_Q plz let’s agree with other fellow DKs so we can buff more buff MOAR. ZoS we want MOAR BuFFz.
Said like a lord.
StamDK this patch survives on weapon abilities. All I see stamDKs are using are gathering stacks of fury and going for turn evil into onslaught and executioner spam. So much for class identity - to use entire 2H skill line for everything. Claw might be good in theory but in reality who will die to 30k over 14 seconds
and FOTM classes will auto-purge it before highest ticks will came.
And then you may look at templar who have absolutely everything possible in their toolkit.Edited by MartiniDaniels on November 19, 2019 10:05AM1 -
Dottzgaming✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »[...] stunning me with Crystal Blast[...]
and Chains? I really don't want to give someone CC immunity just so I can get close to them.... [...]
Empowering Chains, the morph that moves you, does not grant immunity to your target. Yes, it can move you into a position that isn't to your advantage, but with a ranged stun you'd still need to move there anyways.
Also which sorc player uses Crystal Blast? Probably the same players that just don't want to slot Chains.ketsparrowhawk wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »[...] stunning me with Crystal Blast[...]
and Chains? I really don't want to give someone CC immunity just so I can get close to them.... [...]
Empowering Chains, the morph that moves you, does not grant immunity to your target. Yes, it can move you into a position that isn't to your advantage, but with a ranged stun you'd still need to move there anyways.
Also which sorc player uses Crystal Blast? Probably the same players that just don't want to slot Chains.
Was gonna say this same thing. Empowering Chains is the better morph all around. Solves the kite-y sorc problem nicely. 2x empower is nice too.
And yeah.. if the sorc is using Crystal Blast then you should have all the time in the world to just block that nonsense. I've only ever seen sorc healers using it personally.
Either the skill was bugged last patch when i tested it (tried incorporating it into a build) or they stealth changed it, it for some reason grants CC immunity now.0 -
Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭i took out stampede with my vMA and put StoneFist back.
At the very least it can trigger minor brutality, and if i just need some breathing space from my target, i can spam it for a distance.
been a couple weeks now testing in Cyro-CP, and it's safe to say what I like to change from StoneGiant are;
1. still cost too much.
2. the animation + flight time does not make it worthwhile to spam. it should be instant, fast with no flight time.
3. if they want to keep the flight time/cast time animation, then make the damage on par with Dizzying Swing.........August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stone giant should also be poison fist. This is strange when suggested main class spammable doesn't fit elemental theme of class.1 -
KundaliniHero✭✭✭Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »Did anyone even test this dumb change to what was our only ranged stun?
So my Mag DK, runs into a Sorc in Cyrodil... he starts his barrage, (a little while ago you took our deflect away, so I need to get close I guess--- but since he has streak and major expedition I can't really catch him, but I can stun him right? I have a staff, but Shock Reach won't do that, a Flame Staff just knocks him farther away, and a Frost Staff just kills your damage
so now he is kiting me, stunning me with Crystal Blast, Rune Cage, etc.... The range on fossilize is only 7meters, but I know, I love STONE GIANT! A heal and a stun, that is great skill.... even if I don't stun, I can stay in the fight right?
oh wait, the Heal is gone, and now I have to hit him 3x in 6 seconds? and it's stam based... so while he is dodging, streaking and dropping an endless barrage of 8k frags on my head I am trying to hit him with 3 worthless Stone Giants? and hoping that he doesn't have Immunity (lets not forget people have CC, Stun, and Off Balance Immunity about 80% of the time now).
So is Mag DK the only class that has no ranged stuns or immobilizes now?
and Chains? I really don't want to give someone CC immunity just so I can get close to them....
So now half our skills are like less than 1000 damage dots (which translates to a worthless 300-400 (not thousand, hundred) damage per tic or just impossible like Stone Giant? I\m not sure what the developers have against combat, but this is horrible
Stone giant on a magdk? I feel like magdk is in a really good place right now and stone giant had nothing to do with it, it never did, its one of those skills that few people even use.
Although I do agree that the rework on that skill is complete garbage it wouldn't be something that I would NEED to stomp a magsorc. I dont think DK needs another stun personally I mean fossilize is king even the other morph is great (which is already a heal and a stun). They should just convert it into a ranged damage skill, up the damage with a damage over time component: maybe an aoe explosion mechanic if you hit your target with three consecutive or having it cause unbalanced, keep it simple, then maybe, maybe people would use it.
I personally like chains in small group play, even talons both have their uses, its always satisfying to pull a healer out of a zerg or using talons on that chicken running around tree's and rocks gf. Who needs stone giant?
Edited by KundaliniHero on November 22, 2019 8:12PM1 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭i took out stampede with my vMA and put StoneFist back.
At the very least it can trigger minor brutality, and if i just need some breathing space from my target, i can spam it for a distance.
been a couple weeks now testing in Cyro-CP, and it's safe to say what I like to change from StoneGiant are;
1. still cost too much.
2. the animation + flight time does not make it worthwhile to spam. it should be instant, fast with no flight time.
3. if they want to keep the flight time/cast time animation, then make the damage on par with Dizzying Swing.........
Yes, sure. Buff it's dmg by 19% to match dizzy's but make it far more than 10% cheaper, instant cast and ranged.
But even funnier is your middle suggestion. Instant + no flight time means unavoidable, right? LoL
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Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭Imo still the best change in a while to any DK skill. Chew anyone to 15k health then leap>execute. Leap crits, GG. And chiseling down someone to 15k with DS was a chore.3 -
JSlayer211✭✭✭Stamden is the God of No Stuns. Until you have to wait for your Ulti to come up to stun reliably, you don't know pain. Not only do we have to get in close for a stun but we then have to do some stupid multi-hit combo with possible cast times.0
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Davadin✭✭✭✭✭
✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »i took out stampede with my vMA and put StoneFist back.
At the very least it can trigger minor brutality, and if i just need some breathing space from my target, i can spam it for a distance.
been a couple weeks now testing in Cyro-CP, and it's safe to say what I like to change from StoneGiant are;
1. still cost too much.
2. the animation + flight time does not make it worthwhile to spam. it should be instant, fast with no flight time.
3. if they want to keep the flight time/cast time animation, then make the damage on par with Dizzying Swing.........
Yes, sure. Buff it's dmg by 19% to match dizzy's but make it far more than 10% cheaper, instant cast and ranged.
But even funnier is your middle suggestion. Instant + no flight time means unavoidable, right? LoL
#3 starts with an "IF".
if nothing else change, then yeah, buff the damage please.
if u can reduce the cost AND remove the stupid ass flight time (instant skill doesnt mean unavoidable, do u even play ESO?), then sure, keep that damage.August Palatine Davadin Bloodstrake - Nord Dragon Knight - PC NA - Gray Host
Greymoor 6.0.7 PvP : Medium 2H/SnB The Destroyer
Dragonhold 5.2.11 PvE : Medium DW/2H The Blood Furnace
March 2021 (too lazy to add CP) PvP: Medium DW/Bow The Stabber0 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Imo still the best change in a while to any DK skill. Chew anyone to 15k health then leap>execute. Leap crits, GG. And chiseling down someone to 15k with DS was a chore.
- Warden has shimmering so he will just thank you for free ulti gen... as well as his netch will auto-purge your stacks... So you will trade 7500 stamina and 3 GCD for ~2000 magicka and 1 GCD and give warden 15 ultimate...
- Sorc.. you will be chiseling VERY LONG through all shields, or he will just press one button to negate all chiseling with matriarch heal in 1 GCD
- DK.. DK has wings or average 4-5k HOTs hanging on him...
- NB - shade, cloak, whatever
- Templar... jabs do double damage of stone fist and cost less, give minor protection, major savagery or heal, snare..
- Necro... I don't know, maybe poor bugged necro will suffer.
Stonefist should be melee, it should be cheaper (it is one of the most expensive spammables even after helping hands) and it should provide some meaningful buff/debuff instead of stacks of something useful only in PVE or unreliable stun.
P.S. sorry if it sounds aggressive, but as stamDK main I simply enraged how "class identity" turned out for stamDK with nerfed dots and mediocre spammable.Edited by MartiniDaniels on December 10, 2019 9:13PM2