Mag Dk - light armour with s+b and resto?? Why s+b??!?

Bam_Bam

Can anyone explain the point in a magDK wearing light armour and using S+B and resto? The resto I kinda get, but why S+B if they are wearing light armour? it doesn't make sense - surely heavy armour would be a better choice?

Iskiab

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Can anyone explain the point in a magDK wearing light armour and using S+B and resto? The resto I kinda get, but why S+B if they are wearing light armour? it doesn't make sense - surely heavy armour would be a better choice?

Not always. Light armour reduces the cost of abilities, gives pen and crit.

Half of the ‘heavy armour meta’ are people not realizing they’re fighting people in light and medium and are tanky. Heavy armour had nothing to do with tankiness.

Royaji

Heavy armor doesn't really work on magicka in general.

Bam_Bam

Royaji wrote: »

Heavy armor doesn't really work on magicka in general.

I have a decent destro/resto heavy magblade that works very well.

Bam_Bam

Iskiab wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Can anyone explain the point in a magDK wearing light armour and using S+B and resto? The resto I kinda get, but why S+B if they are wearing light armour? it doesn't make sense - surely heavy armour would be a better choice?

Not always. Light armour reduces the cost of abilities, gives pen and crit.

Half of the ‘heavy armour meta’ are people not realizing they’re fighting people in light and medium and are tanky. Heavy armour had nothing to do with tankiness.

what makes them tanky though? honestly trying to figure it out but struggling to come up with answers. I'd actually LOVE to try out such a build if I could work out how to make it survivable.

EtTuBrutus

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Can anyone explain the point in a magDK wearing light armour and using S+B and resto? The resto I kinda get, but why S+B if they are wearing light armour? it doesn't make sense - surely heavy armour would be a better choice?

Not always. Light armour reduces the cost of abilities, gives pen and crit.

Half of the ‘heavy armour meta’ are people not realizing they’re fighting people in light and medium and are tanky. Heavy armour had nothing to do with tankiness.

what makes them tanky though? honestly trying to figure it out but struggling to come up with answers. I'd actually LOVE to try out such a build if I could work out how to make it survivable.

Every single spell on the magdk kit is able to be casted while holding block. With reduced block of snb and the helping hands passive, mag dks have stam sustain while blocking, not easy for most classes.

Blocking is the single most powerful source if mitigation in the game. That's why so many mag dks utilize this capability.

NBrookus

A few reasons.

Once upon a time, magDKs were absolutely nerfed into the gutter after a brief period of pvp godhood. mDKs were left with permablock out-sustain builds being the only really viable pvp spec and ran double S&B or were edgy and ran DW with S&B. Since then many things have changed about dw, destro staves, resto staves, blocking, and mDKs have functioning healing and damage now. But a lot of mDKs love their S&Bs.

Secondly, DKs get some off-resource sustain from the Battle Roar passive and a small amount of stam sustain from Helping Hands. So they get more off resource than many classes. It's not a lot -- no one would trade 4k mag for 1k stam -- but incorporating a skill you'd use anyway? When you are talking stam on a mag character, every bit helps.

Third, many, many mDKs are Dunmers. They often have 20k stam in their builds.

None of that is enough to permablock alone. But since DKs have no escape mechanic in their class -- even their source of Maj Exp that hardly anyone runs in PVP requires a target -- most mDKs build to be tanky enough to take some lumps. And that includes using block more than most classes. Burning Embers and Power Lash both provide a good amount of offensive healing when used properly as well.

Poor mobility is why a lot of magplars run S&B on one bar too.

The class has changed a lot from the days when we all had to wear Seducer and double S&B just to cope. But a lot of the players seem reluctant to embrace the inferior mag sorcs that a ranged destro DK build would be, and Race Against Time isn't a patch on streak or cloak/shade as a disengagement tool.

Bam_Bam

Thank you all for the excellent replies/insight! Very much appreciated.

What are some good sets for such a build? Julianos, Seducer, Crafty Alfiq, Bright-Throat, Marauder's Haste, Vampire Lord (if applicable), Curse-Eater, Queens Elegance, Sun - all spring to mind but are there others?

Iskiab

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Can anyone explain the point in a magDK wearing light armour and using S+B and resto? The resto I kinda get, but why S+B if they are wearing light armour? it doesn't make sense - surely heavy armour would be a better choice?

Not always. Light armour reduces the cost of abilities, gives pen and crit.

Half of the ‘heavy armour meta’ are people not realizing they’re fighting people in light and medium and are tanky. Heavy armour had nothing to do with tankiness.

what makes them tanky though? honestly trying to figure it out but struggling to come up with answers. I'd actually LOVE to try out such a build if I could work out how to make it survivable.

DK is an alt and I haven't been able to try this build out, so it's purely theorycrafting, but think it would end up being tanky. The main issue would be no hots (not good) but the mitigation would be there. I haven't pulled the trigger because sustain will be an issue, and I'm actually debating using a lightning staff instead of fire just to make heavy attacks easier.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Special:EsoBuildData?id=187819

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Thank you all for the excellent replies/insight! Very much appreciated.

What are some good sets for such a build? Julianos, Seducer, Crafty Alfiq, Bright-Throat, Marauder's Haste, Vampire Lord (if applicable), Curse-Eater, Queens Elegance, Sun - all spring to mind but are there others?

Good sets I think would be jorvlund, seducer, or ones that proc when you're hit like desert rose. Sustain is the DK downside but tankiness isn't in a sense, so sets that proc when you're hit work well.

I also think destro is sort of a must too just because of elemental drain. You really need that minor magic steal.

Bam_Bam

I just found this. Looks like a lot of fun so will give it a try.

https://youtu.be/UyZFROJ9sMI

NBrookus

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Thank you all for the excellent replies/insight! Very much appreciated.

What are some good sets for such a build? Julianos, Seducer, Crafty Alfiq, Bright-Throat, Marauder's Haste, Vampire Lord (if applicable), Curse-Eater, Queens Elegance, Sun - all spring to mind but are there others?

The tankiest set I have messed with this patch on a damage build was Marauders Haste. You don't have to tank damage if people can't hit you. The overall build I tried was pretty lackluster, but I think Haste has a lot of potential... until it gets nerfed next patch because it breaks the rules and stacks with speed buffs.

Curse Eater is less strong this patch; fewer dots.

Crom_CCCXVI

Because Heavy Armor sucks for damage, the average person you fight in PvP has 30000+ resistance and you need that 4800 Penentration if you are actually trying to kill someone..

that said the majority of players have no idea how resistance and penetration actually works anyway

Bam_Bam

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Because Heavy Armor sucks for damage, the average person you fight in PvP has 30000+ resistance and you need that 4800 Penentration if you are actually trying to kill someone..

that said the majority of players have no idea how resistance and penetration actually works anyway

Like me!

So feel free to explain - I've loads of time now seeing as PC EU just died again lol.

But seriously, Resistance and penetration has always confused the crap out of me. Especially as people refer to either the amount gained in the CP tree, but others refer to the number in the character sheet.

Iskiab

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Because Heavy Armor sucks for damage, the average person you fight in PvP has 30000+ resistance and you need that 4800 Penentration if you are actually trying to kill someone..

that said the majority of players have no idea how resistance and penetration actually works anyway

Like me!

So feel free to explain - I've loads of time now seeing as PC EU just died again lol.

But seriously, Resistance and penetration has always confused the crap out of me. Especially as people refer to either the amount gained in the CP tree, but others refer to the number in the character sheet.

Basicly for every 660 armour/resistances you take 1% less damage. There’s other things in the calculation but whatever, they aren’t very important.

The important part is penetration is deducted from your resistances, so hitting someone with 30k resistance with 10k pen means they’re benefitting from 20k worth of resistances deducting from your damage.

The other important thing that I see a lot of people confused about is buffs/debuffs. It’s easy to go into the character builder and click all the buffs thinking you’ll be tanky, but it’s not that easy. If you don’t maintain your major resistance buff you’re actually down 5k resistances, plus things like bloodspawn only have a 40% uptime.

So if he character builder might say you have 30k resistances, but forget to reapply your armour buff (5k), not have blood spawn up (6k), against someone with 10k pen, using elemental drain (5k) and your effective resistance is only 4k. This is the situation when people complain about being hit with big numbers with 30k resists.

Bam_Bam

Iskiab wrote: »

Bam_Bam wrote: »

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

Because Heavy Armor sucks for damage, the average person you fight in PvP has 30000+ resistance and you need that 4800 Penentration if you are actually trying to kill someone..

that said the majority of players have no idea how resistance and penetration actually works anyway

Like me!

So feel free to explain - I've loads of time now seeing as PC EU just died again lol.

But seriously, Resistance and penetration has always confused the crap out of me. Especially as people refer to either the amount gained in the CP tree, but others refer to the number in the character sheet.

Basicly for every 660 armour/resistances you take 1% less damage. There’s other things in the calculation but whatever, they aren’t very important.

The important part is penetration is deducted from your resistances, so hitting someone with 30k resistance with 10k pen means they’re benefitting from 20k worth of resistances deducting from your damage.

The other important thing that I see a lot of people confused about is buffs/debuffs. It’s easy to go into the character builder and click all the buffs thinking you’ll be tanky, but it’s not that easy. If you don’t maintain your major resistance buff you’re actually down 5k resistances, plus things like bloodspawn only have a 40% uptime.

So if he character builder might say you have 30k resistances, but forget to reapply your armour buff (5k), not have blood spawn up (6k), against someone with 10k pen, using elemental drain (5k) and your effective resistance is only 4k. This is the situation when people complain about being hit with big numbers with 30k resists.

Thank you for the detailed reply - very much appreciated and explains a LOT (especially the millions of times I've died )