[OFF-TOPIC] Fallout 1st/ESO Plus

CaptainVenom

So Fallout 76 got the same ESO Plus we have, yet people and media are freaking out because of it. Why? I know F76 didn't start good, but c'mon. It's just an optional subscription service, cheaper than ESO Plus, does basically the same (they'll have a Craft Bag too, for example), and lets you play alone (lol? In an online game?). I really don't understand all those tantrum they are throwing.

Nemesis7884

first of all, this is an eso forum - if you want to discuss fallout 76 go to their forum or reddit.

Secondly WOW pal you are SO wrong on SO many levels its not even funny...

CaptainVenom

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

first of all, this is an eso forum - if you want to discuss fallout 76 go to their forum or reddit.

Secondly WOW pal you are SO wrong on SO many levels its not even funny...

It's ok to disagree with me, but hey, you don't need to post such rude comment, you know?

idk

I have to agree with Nemesis on many levels.

MrBrownstone

I wouldn't play F76 for free and now there is an option to pay monthly... Even Eso is a better functioning game

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Of what I've heard, one of the main gripes with the whole ordeal is that they have asked for private servers for some time and now when they finally get them they are behind a paywall and can only contain a handful of people. Think it was like 8 or so.

Donny_Vito

Fallout 76 was okay the first few days it came out, but once people started doing all the exploits it got ridiculous and I moved on fairly quick. The same principle seems to apply to most games... once you start cheating/exploiting the fun is lost for all people involved (regardless if you were cheating or just affected by it). But I do think F76 needed to add a subscription in order to bring in more revenue because the game was not as successful as they thought it would be.

WeerW3ir

CaptainVenom wrote: »

So Fallout 76 got the same ESO Plus we have, yet people and midia are freaking out because of it. Why? I know F76 didn't start good, but c'mon. It's just an optional subscription service, cheaper than ESO Plus, does basically the same (they'll have a Craft Bag too, for example), and lets you play alone (lol? In an online game?). I really don't understand all those tantrum they are throwing.

first of all. you have to purchase the game for an x money. you have the full game. now they add an eso+ like sub with OWN servers and craftbag. and since the backpack of yours is not endless. even smaller than eso since its not x number base like in eso. this means you must pay plus money to a game which is not mmo. also the game is kinda still wasted and will be wasted. just think about all the flaw they made. now they add this. its like adding salt to a deep wound which is unhealable.

Gadamlub14_ESO

well for one. the private servers are a lie. they aren't actually private. any friend can join in on you and its not a new server when you start a "private" server so you could have everything looted when you boot in.

Secondly the craft bag for 76 is completely broken. it doesn't store crafting materials, it deletes them

The portable camp also doesnt work

I wish i was making this up.

VaranisArano

Definitely off-topic for the ESO forums.

On the other hand, I think its a really funny approach to think about for ESO.
Fallout 1st: basically, pay $13 a month to play an MMO like its a singleplayer RPG or for a small group "Fallout with Friends"

There's a market for that in ESO too, though almost certainly not enough of one to justify ZOS spending time/effort/money on private servers. However, it might be one of the best ways to handle some of the ideas for customizable difficulty. Players who want to adventure alone can buy their immersion. Players who want a higher level of challenge in overland content can buy their customizable difficulty settings that affects only them and their friends on their private server.

It could work. I just don't think its at all likely.

Zer0_CooL

Just leaving this here:


https://falloutfirst.com/

Gadamlub14_ESO

Zer0_CooL wrote: »

Just leaving this here:


Snip

Heh.

Mod edit in three...two....

DTStormfox

The problem with Fallout 76 is the fact that it has a tiny player base, and the game is mostly broken and the game not living up to expectations that people had. Which mostly is Bethesda's fault because they made promises they couldn't hold.

When ESO started, it started with a Beta and expectations were being kept low by Zenimax. Fallout 76, however, was released as a full and working game but it was far from a full and working game.

It is mostly due to expectation management that ESO+ is received more positively than Fallout 1st.

The_Old_Goat

So before this gets locked down, I just want to mention that Outer Worlds is launching tonight. It looks to be the game F76 should've been, minus the multiplayer aspect that is.

Gadamlub14_ESO

The never ending events of fallout 76

The creation club

Blades

And our own crown store leaves me quite adamant that ESO will be the last good elder scrolls game.

Agenericname

VaranisArano wrote: »

Definitely off-topic for the ESO forums.

On the other hand, I think its a really funny approach to think about for ESO.
Fallout 1st: basically, pay $13 a month to play an MMO like its a singleplayer RPG or for a small group "Fallout with Friends"

There's a market for that in ESO too, though almost certainly not enough of one to justify ZOS spending time/effort/money on private servers. However, it might be one of the best ways to handle some of the ideas for customizable difficulty. Players who want to adventure alone can buy their immersion. Players who want a higher level of challenge in overland content can buy their customizable difficulty settings that affects only them and their friends on their private server.

It could work. I just don't think its at all likely.

I think that it's more likely that we will see it in TES6. Perhaps not exactly like we see in FO76, even ESO+ has evolved to be more attractive to customers, but I think we will some variation of it.

rpa

Just wait when TES 6 releases. Imagine all the monetization and undelivered hype they can stuff in it.

Kaunas

Its clickbait media. Truth is who doesnt play the game doesnt actually care. All the outlets are just cashing in on any disaster they can.. same with ESO when it launched, yet you cant find a single video of ESO today by the same people going "ok wait this game is decent now sorry".
Tl;dr stop consuming toxic "news and media" and play your games that you want without having to listen to random useless people on the internet "who did what and why you should hate them".

starkerealm

The_Old_Goat wrote: »

So before this gets locked down, I just want to mention that Outer Worlds is launching tonight. It looks to be the game F76 should've been, minus the multiplayer aspect that is.

So, the game 76 should have been?

jcm2606

CaptainVenom wrote: »

So Fallout 76 got the same ESO Plus we have, yet people and midia are freaking out because of it. Why? I know F76 didn't start good, but c'mon. It's just an optional subscription service, cheaper than ESO Plus, does basically the same (they'll have a Craft Bag too, for example), and lets you play alone (lol? In an online game?). I really don't understand all those tantrum they are throwing.

Because, once you look at it beyond what the bonuses appear to be at face value, FO76 really doesn't need a sub at this point, nor should it have one to begin with.

1. ESO has existed for 5 years now, FO76 is just now coming up to 1 year. ESO has a whole backlog of content available through the sub, which makes it worth the money investment, while FO76 is just a collection of heavily gameplay altering convenience perks, where they've invented problems and sold the solutions back to you. All of the value behind ESO's sub is tangible, while FO76's is purely artificial.

2. ESO is an actual MMO, and is friendlier to long-term monetisation schemes like this, due to the long expected lifespan. FO76 is just a glorified AAA "live services" online-only multiplayer RPG, all dressed up to look like an MMO, with a questionable lifespan, even ignoring the damage Bethesda did to their brand and goodwill through FO76. Publishers typically say they plan on supporting these "live services" games for 5+ years, but in reality, that just means "hey, we'll spend 2 years working on content, then put the game in maintenance mode for the other 3 years, while we work on a sequel to do the whole thing over again". You're not guaranteed to get the value you want out of the sub with a "live services" game, if you're subbing the whole time, compared to in an actual MMO. Actual MMO's may crash and burn, but they're designed to actually last those full 5+ years, not only make it a third of the way, then put the game in maintenance mode.

3. Despite both games having similar launches in terms of reception, the journeys they both took, and where they landed as of this moment, are vastly different, and basically polar opposites. While ESO spent its first year or two redesigning itself and trying to win back that goodwill from its audience, FO76 spent its first year (so far) trying to milk a perpetually shrinking audience for more and more money, breaking promises left and right. If we were to drag ESO as of its first anniversary to now and watch the reaction to the introduction of ESO Plus unfold, and if we were to compare the two reactions at these points in time, I think you'd still find people being more lenient towards ESO, because it's clear they want to actually better the game, rather than just take your money and run for the hills as the game dies a horribly slow but exceedingly public death, as per what FO76 seems to be doing currently.

Gadamlub14_ESO

Kaunas wrote: »

Its clickbait media. Truth is who doesnt play the game doesnt actually care. All the outlets are just cashing in on any disaster they can.. same with ESO when it launched, yet you cant find a single video of ESO today by the same people going "ok wait this game is decent now sorry".
Tl;dr stop consuming toxic "news and media" and play your games that you want without having to listen to random useless people on the internet "who did what and why you should hate them".

Give me one good reason to play fallout 76 and to not tout it as a trophy that I’m one of the very few people in North America that actually managed to refund 76 power armor edition.

Kaunas

Gadamlub14_ESO wrote: »

Kaunas wrote: »

Its clickbait media. Truth is who doesnt play the game doesnt actually care. All the outlets are just cashing in on any disaster they can.. same with ESO when it launched, yet you cant find a single video of ESO today by the same people going "ok wait this game is decent now sorry".
Tl;dr stop consuming toxic "news and media" and play your games that you want without having to listen to random useless people on the internet "who did what and why you should hate them".

Give me one good reason to play fallout 76 and to not tout it as a trophy that I’m one of the very few people in North America that actually managed to refund 76 power armor edition.

First of all congratulations on getting the refund!
And one good reason is this: you can have any opinion you want right, but it wont help anyone lol.. you move on and forget it ezpzlemonez

starkerealm

NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »

Of what I've heard, one of the main gripes with the whole ordeal is that they have asked for private servers for some time and now when they finally get them they are behind a paywall and can only contain a handful of people. Think it was like 8 or so.

Private servers were announced ahead of release as something that would be added after launch. Not something that would be gated off behind a subscription service at some point.

Also, Private servers aren't, actually, private. Anyone from your friends list can join you in your game, whether you want them or not. So, if you're someone who has a lot of people in your playlist, you can get people you may not even know popping into your "private server" you're paying money for.

Not sure, but if the architecture works the way I think it does, then their friends would be able to join them, and you have a game of five degrees of separation from trolls.

Not sure about the server population limit. Base game limit is 24 or 32, something like that.

Also, private server functions only prevent randoms from joining a server. It doesn't generate a new server. So you could (and people have) end up on a server that was already in use, with areas already looted.

Bobby_V_Rockit

I like FO76, but the lack of anything to do besides play house got real old real fast.

svartorn

Fallout 76 isn't even a functional game at this point.

Starlock

When a company blatantly lies to its fans... when they utilize feedback given in good faith expecting the company to actually keep to its word... only to get it sold back to them at a premium? And on top of that the company has the gall to claim we ASKED to be scammed like this?

What Fucthesea did with 1st is worse than even the crap THIS game has pulled. And that’s saying something.

Tommy_The_Gun

I disagree with OP.

Both games (ESO & Fallout 76) have created and artificial problem (and it is intended by design it seems), and now they are selling a solution for the problem, they themselves introduced. It is a deliberate move to cash in for more money for a game that is Buy2Play in a first place. In ESO it is inventory management that is being kept "hostage" behind regular monthly "extortion".

Granted ESO is a Way, Way better game than Fallout 76, but the mechanics behind sleazy monetization are very similar.
Many people make a mistake and call it "pay to convince". But it is really not the case. It is "Pay to have normal experience".
Pay, so we could un-screw you, because we have screwed you initially so you will pay us yet even more money.

ESO+ could provide different benefits, that is true, but it seems that ZOS is afraid of doing so. The point is that, ESO+ was originally rewarding player for using it, but now it seams that is is making ESO+ users game play experience "normal" in some aspects of the game (inventory management) and instead punishes players who dont use it.

It is less and less "optional" and more of a necessity if you want to stay competitive. Otherwise, ZOS would have simply raised bank cap (yep it was not touched since the game launch, back in 2014). Imho problem could simply be solved in a very simple way:
- You PAY to buy Chapter or DLC ? Your max bank space cap goes up, so you can upgrade it to 250, 260, 270 etc. But it seams ZOS is afraid of doing so.

nafensoriel

CaptainVenom wrote: »

So Fallout 76 got the same ESO Plus we have, yet people and media are freaking out because of it. Why? I know F76 didn't start good, but c'mon. It's just an optional subscription service, cheaper than ESO Plus, does basically the same (they'll have a Craft Bag too, for example), and lets you play alone (lol? In an online game?). I really don't understand all those tantrum they are throwing.

While I wont go into the mechanics of ESO+ vs FO1st the main reason for the hate is because its in fashion.
Call it herd mentality or FOMO. Right now its the in thing to absolutely hate and dissect anything Bethesda does so any tiny failure on their part is suddenly a big deal when it really isn't.

Sucks but thats now a thing thanks to social media culture... Hate is the new norm.

DaveMoeDee

CaptainVenom wrote: »

So Fallout 76 got the same ESO Plus we have, yet people and media are freaking out because of it. Why? I know F76 didn't start good, but c'mon. It's just an optional subscription service, cheaper than ESO Plus, does basically the same (they'll have a Craft Bag too, for example), and lets you play alone (lol? In an online game?). I really don't understand all those tantrum they are throwing.

I agree that personal servers are something worthy of paying extra, but the problem FO76 has is that there are people who keep playing despite acknowledging the game is a mess and lacks content so they are miffed about missing out of QoL improvements. Then there are the bugs.

Sure, GaaS need recurring revenue like all SaaS offerings, but FO76 needs to feel more satisfying at its core. I also beg to differ with people who compare launches. ESO disappointed many at launch, but it wasn't considered a bad game. It just didn't match up to single player ESO quality and didn't have much of the nonsense MMO players like.

Fallout 76 was considered a bad game at launch. Look at Metacritic averages: 71 vs 52. 71 = mediocre game. 52 = bad game.

Add to that the fact that ESO started with a mandatory sub and likely a far more expensive infrastructure than FO76. ESO just converted to the optional sub (while still having the greater infrastructure costs).

It is not surprising that ZOS was able to go from yellow scores to green scores (recommended) on Metacritic if we look at Tamriel Unlimited and chapter releases. It wasn't a big jump. FO76 has an extremely long way to go. People paying losing junk to bottomless storage isn't getting them any closer.

Starlock

nafensoriel wrote: »

CaptainVenom wrote: »

So Fallout 76 got the same ESO Plus we have, yet people and media are freaking out because of it. Why? I know F76 didn't start good, but c'mon. It's just an optional subscription service, cheaper than ESO Plus, does basically the same (they'll have a Craft Bag too, for example), and lets you play alone (lol? In an online game?). I really don't understand all those tantrum they are throwing.

While I wont go into the mechanics of ESO+ vs FO1st the main reason for the hate is because its in fashion.
Call it herd mentality or FOMO. Right now its the in thing to absolutely hate and dissect anything Bethesda does so any tiny failure on their part is suddenly a big deal when it really isn't.

Sucks but thats now a thing thanks to social media culture... Hate is the new norm.

No, that isn’t the main reason for the hate. If you believe that, you haven’t been paying attention. Probably not just to the issue with this latest travesty, but to the problems with the video game industry over the past console generation just in general.

DaveMoeDee

Gadamlub14_ESO wrote: »

The never ending events of fallout 76

The creation club

Blades

And our own crown store leaves me quite adamant that ESO will be the last good elder scrolls game.

Nah. Bethesda needs the halo effect of a good single player TES game.