Suggestions on upcoming Class Identity patches (Update 25 and beyond)

Pr0Skygon

Before getting into details, let me introduce a bit about myself. I'm a marketer/salesman IRL, and I'm quite a business nerd. In my few of work, brand equity (basically how much a brand worth in value) is very important, and we usually use the brand resonance model as a template. I think the same thing can be implemented with "class identities".


First of all, the pyramid will go from bottom to the top. I can safely say that all 6 classes in ESO right now has their own salience, meaning we all know how to separate them from one and another. But onto the 2nd layer, performance and imagery, it's a bit of a fuster cluck:
1. Performance is all over the place. I agree with ZOS on their saying that all classes should be able to perform in any role, yet they might not be optimized for that. However, some classes are very clearly optimized for one role, while some aren't optimized for anything. NB in this patch is still the best PVP ganker, but what about PVE? NB provide very little in term of utility, buffs and debuffs, their sustain is top tier but not their dps, their healing is acceptable at best, and sap tank is no longer a thing. Same things for go Warden, what are they now optimized for? Certainly not any role in PVE, and Warden is just a mix between a DK and a Sorc in PVP.
2. Imagery is a bit of a hit and miss. For some classes such as Necro and Warden, imagery is not an issue, yet stamDK (especially) is extremely lack luster, with no essential theme (poison, flame with FOB being in any DPS rotation + Standard, and now "earth" with poop fist), and not even color (green or orange, choose one, especially when Warden skill set are too green for my eyes).

As far as I can see, ZOS is trying to fix the class's performance first. I'd say I love some of their idea, with Bound Armament and the stam morph for Swarm, and in some way, the poop fist. However, some changes are straight up bad on paper, and even worse somehow in reality. A stamina base pet for a fast moving class, that can't even solo a *** mudcrab. Poop fist visual and audio are god awful. I don't have problem with ZOS taking things slow and implementing 1 skill at a time. But if they've decided to go that route (which I think is the best option), they will need to nail it, or else it will become a hot poop meme.

Lastly, into controversy territory, IMO only, ZOS should just focus on Class Performance and Imagery improvement first, then focus on the Playerbase's responses and feelings. The reasons are simple: First, this forum is filled with whiner and "I'm a X main so I know this class the best" type of players, which are very hard to reason with. Secondly, if ZOS keep on catering to these type of noises (yes, "noises" is an actual business term in brand communication), they will just go around in circle and keep on chasing gooses. There have been time when ZOS *** it up, hard, by standing their ground. But there are also some opposite situation, when their vision is actually on point. Take for example, the recent changes to healer. I know that not anyone would wanna change their playstyle, but I have to be honest, the new style is much more enjoyable to play as, and more reliable. People are very quick to jump into conclusion when they read stuffs on paper, but give it some time, only then you can give an objective feedback on the subject.

In conclusion, if ZOS would ever read this boring nerdy post, I have 2 suggestions for you guys. First of all, double down on classes Performance and Imagery improvement, but do it one step at a time. Secondly, only focus on the playerbase feedback and response after all your Class improvement plan is completed, so you can get a better picture of what ppl hate, who are these ppl (this is very important since PVEers and PVPers are very different in their perspective), why they hate it, and how to fix it.

But hey, that's just my opinion. I can be wrong, and I'm certainly that this post would *** some ppl off, or just bore them to dead. I'm no stranger to controversy or receiving death threat on this forum, so let's see how many I'll give this week.

OrderoftheDarkness

Chic without bias.

relentless_turnip

This was a very well written and unbiased look at the 'journey' from launch to where we are now.


I just thought I'd pay you a compliment before some arse inevitably writes something rude or ignorant!

GrimTheReaper45

I dont know about ignoring player feedback. I think ignoring player feedback is how we got to this problematic point in the first place.

At the very least Zos doing something like putting up a "What I like about (insert class)" thread for each of the classes prior to starting work on this would be good. Let players tell zos what they like about the classes and lean into and expand upon that when it comes to class identity.

Ragnarock41

Ignoring player feedback, was what gave birth to stonefist in the first place. Majority asked for a stamwhip or more poison abilities in general. I get why stamwhip did not happen however, that does not excuse stonefist. People like stamDk because of the poison and dragon aspects of it , rather than the ugly looking earthen heart abilities , most of which won't even work on a stamina build.

Even when Zenimax repeatedly says they'll improve the Class identity in future updates and also improve the look of stonefist, they also keep insisting on keeping the ability Earth themed.(Which tells me they still do not listen) This raises my doubt for future updates and where they will take the class. The fact that this thing made it to live fills my heart with doubt and uncertainty.

You know what would be the best marketing they could come up with? Solid friggen proof. Come up something, anything. maybe discuss ideas with us. Ask us what we like and dislike. Put some work in it , don't give me fancy words and sweet lies, give me solid proof so that I can believe in you.

Not saying this to taunt the devs, but the way sDk mains were treated after waiting sooooo long on a new ability was a colossal marketing ****-up and personally It felt like a b****-slap.

I don't enjoy writing feedback that is ''toxic'', as I'm usually being referred as, but I also don't like the way I'm being treated as a very very long time player. This was an update where developers had a chance to build-up their relationship with the community, fill them with hopes and dreams and all that good ***. They were supposed to break up the ice between us and what we wanted was really easy and obvious. Yet look at where we are.

Nothing says stamDk like a good old ranged spammable my dude. You're absolutely right, they shouldn't take feedback, not from someone like me who mains one class, what do I know right?

ExistingRug61

I think the main difficulty ZOS faces with making changes to abilities to improve class identity is that because the game has been out for years now the players have formed their own (often quite varying) ideas of what each classes' identity is, and if the change ZOS makes doesn't fit that ZOS risk alienating those players. To ignore the feedback only increases this risk.

However, I can also see that the feedback on the forum is often diverse and conflicting. More importantly some of it possibly is simply never going to be implemented because it does not match where ZOS wants to take the classes. The problem here is the players are not always aware of what this is.

Take for example the previously mentioned StamDK new spammable. There have been countless posts about how StamDK should get a spammable in the form of stamwhip, but instead they got stonefist. To all those players who gave that feedback it will feel like they weren't listened to which is undesirable. However, I suspect it is the case that stamwhip was never on the table as an option as far as ZOS was concerned as it doesn't match what ZOS want StamDK to be. But (assuming this was the case) because the players are unaware of this they kept giving the "give us stamwhip" feedback instead of potentially coming up with other options if they knew stamwhip was not going to happen. Which meant ZOS came up with something different on their own which then seems like it comes out of left field for the players giving feedback.

So my suggestion would be that for the purpose of class identity ZOS needs to try to get some more directed feedback by either asking specific directed questions to the playerbase, or at least giving the players the idea of what they are thinking with each class and why and what constraints there are and why so at least players giving feedback can try to support that idea.

DuckInRealLife

Just my suggestion.

Make hybrid builds more viable.By removing the damage scaling off Magicka Health and Stamina.
Make all skills scale of spell damage and all weapons off weapon damage. Make magicka based melee and melee based healers a thing.