I think it is about time magsorcs (and petsorcs).....

chrightt

can single bar pets. Let us take a look at the recent PTS patch notes for petsorcs. While I doubt anyone would argue that pets were too OP pre-scalebreaker, I don't think any sane person will tell you pets are anything more than an annoyance these days rather than being strong, useful, or even usable in dragonhold as a skill that costs 2 skill slots out of the 10 we have in ESO. While honestly I personally don't really use pets in either PVP or PVE, I did try out pets in PVE before and can definitely recognize why some people like playing sorcerers with pets.

5.2.0
Summon Unstable Familiar
Reduced the damage of this ability and its morphs’ basic attack by approximately 17%. Increased the cost of the special activate of this ability and the Volatile Familiar morph to 4500, up from 2808. Increased the duration of the special activate to 10 seconds, up from 8. The base cost of summoning these abilities has been streamlined to 3510.

Summon Winged Twilight: Increased the heal of this ability and the Twilight Matriarch morph to be closer to the heal power of Rushed Ceremony. This will result in approximately 87% increase for the base, and approximately 55% increase for the Matriarch. Note that these abilities will continue to scale exclusively with Max Magicka.
What the patch notes FAILED to mention is winged twilight's activation ability also got tuned up to 4500 base cost so a lot of people were complaining that twilight Matriarch got a heal buff. Overall, I would say making per heal more impactful is not a bad idea but this is definitely not an overbuff at this point. The numbers might need to be tweaked, but if they are petsorcs should at least get something else with the following *** patch notes.

5.2.1 and 5.2.2
no changes.

5.2.3
Summon Unstable Familiar:
Increased the damage per hit of this ability and its morphs’ basic attacks by 20%.
Increased the damage of the pulse attack from this morph and the Volatile Familiar morph by 20%.

Summon Winged Twilight:
Increased the damage per hit of this ability and its morphs by 20%.

Keep in mind, 100*0.83*1.2 = 99.6
So over 5.2.0 + 5.2.3 patch notes summoned unstable familiar is actually slightly weaker than the current scalebreaker patch. Wing'ed twilight's damage got a slight buff.

Just when petsorcs thought the abysmal damage of their pets got a small buff......

5.2.4
Daedric Curse: Daedric Prey (morph): Reduced the bonus damage for pets to 20%, down from 40%.

Holy cow.... what else can I say. Pets take up 2 skills out of the 10 skills we can slot for ESO. At this point pets have power levels more similar to a single skill taking up a single skill slot. With the change to only needing to 1 bar pets we can only activate the ability on one bar anyways. Pet activation costs requiring 4k+ base magicka?!?! So do we just summon them to do minuscule damage? I much rather have the much MUCH more powerful necro pets even though they only last 16 seconds. I rather refresh USEFUL pets that create corpses for further boosts to skills than have a piece of garbage trailing around me doing 3% of my total damage and taking up 2 skill slots out of the precious 10. Also, it is not as if you can have multiple curses so your pet can AoE a bunch of enemies and get the bonuses in a short duration. It only lasts 6 freaking seconds too. At this point people might as well quit playing sorcerers. Opps, sorry I mean we might as well all slot Daedric Curse and save ourselves some magicka for needing to recast it every 6 seconds.

This Daedric Prey nerf is just unthinkable. What the f is ZOS doing?!?!?!No no, they definitely have a clue guys, they definitely do. Maybe ZoS can blame it on PVP?!?!? This is definitely not the fault of PVPers as PVPers tend to take Daedric Curse rather than Daedric Prey and you won't see any decent sorc running both pets as the opportunity cost for slotting pets is just great. Without running 2 pets, there isn't that much benefit running Daedric Prey. Taking up 2 skill slots is a huge detriment. If you bring one pet, getting locked out of 1 skill means you're 10% less versatile and is deprived of 1/10th of the skills you can bring to battle. So why don't we just make pets freaking 1 barred at this point because its activation cost is very expensive and its permanent uselessness is also very freaking taxing on the skill bar at the moment. SOS ZOS, maybe you can just delete the whole playstyle or the whole class. Why don't you? I mean we only have streak left to run away from everyone right? Even freaking shields only work in CP situations because they're so damned inefficient in non-CP. What the FVCK does class identity mean to you at this point? Buff DKs, buff DKS, buff MORE DKS to do double the DoTs sorcerer has? oh ***..... wait our only dot is from our now useless pets.

Luckylancer

Active of familiar is treated same with other aoe dots, there is nothing wrong there. The problem is ZoS balanced 2 skill slot skill with 1 skill slot reference.

You are riggt about how weak pet sorcs are. Petsorcs, magsorcs and stamblades were game breaking strong and they are over-nerfed. I hope ZoS will slightly buff them each patch to find the sweet spot.

Vahrokh

Luckylancer wrote: »

Active of familiar is treated same with other aoe dots, there is nothing wrong there. The problem is ZoS balanced 2 skill slot skill with 1 skill slot reference.

You are riggt about how weak pet sorcs are. Petsorcs, magsorcs and stamblades were game breaking strong and they are over-nerfed. I hope ZoS will slightly buff them each patch to find the sweet spot.

Too bad a normal game would rebalance classes like you say every few weeks. ESO takes 1-2 years!

Lord-Otto

Vahrokh wrote: »

Luckylancer wrote: »

Active of familiar is treated same with other aoe dots, there is nothing wrong there. The problem is ZoS balanced 2 skill slot skill with 1 skill slot reference.

You are riggt about how weak pet sorcs are. Petsorcs, magsorcs and stamblades were game breaking strong and they are over-nerfed. I hope ZoS will slightly buff them each patch to find the sweet spot.

Too bad a normal game would rebalance classes like you say every few weeks. ESO takes 1-2 years!

"Rebalance"... ZOS ain't balancing s#$&! They're just wildly throwing out random nerfs and numbers while babbling about supposed "standardization" and "cool effects/sounds". Not realizing it doesn't work and sucks every last interesting aspect out of the game.

Ozby

They have ruined my pet sorc and at this point with these changes I'm done doing dps toons at all.

Aedaryl

They are completly killing pet sorcs.

This is shame ZoS doesn't realise that scamp and Twilight/tourmentor take 2 skills

This is even more stupid to nerf deadric prey, there is no interest to take it over haunting curse anymore in PvP...

ExistingRug61

Luckylancer wrote: »

Active of familiar is treated same with other aoe dots, there is nothing wrong there. The problem is ZoS balanced 2 skill slot skill with 1 skill slot reference.

The difficulty with trying to balance 2 skill slots vs 1 skill slot is that the pet actives still have to be balanced in terms of damage vs cost and damage vs the GCD otherwise they could eclipse other skills.

Perhaps a solution would be to make all the pets give a passive bonus while the pet is summoned, say similar in effectiveness to inner light. And then the active component be balanced with other abilities of the same type.

This way having to spend 2 slots for the pet skill on a pet build would be the equivalent of 1 slot for a passive skill and 1 slot for an active skill on a non pet build, but with a slight benefit of having the pet passive and active available on both bars.

bol

Are you sure twilight has the cost increase to 4500? What would be the reason for that, it is not an AoE skill? The tormentor activation is actually a buff, and a very weak one at that, should probably cost like 1000magicka max for what it does.

Rianai

Before pets - all of them, not just sorc pets - get any buffs they should be made untargetable.

This would make them less obnoxious to play against (no matter how bad the pets are, fighting a zoo is always disgusting, and even just a single one can be annoying as hell) and it would make them more reliable, so their unreliability and the whole "but they can be killed" argument can't be used as justification to make them op one way or another.

Targetable pets will never be balanced in this game.

olsborg

Pets for sorcs is a dead build, not even worth trying to make a build with pets included, rip,.

Aerenel

olsborg wrote: »

Pets for sorcs is a dead build, not even worth trying to make a build with pets included, rip,.

Completely wrong.

universal_wrath

bol wrote: »

Are you sure twilight has the cost increase to 4500? What would be the reason for that, it is not an AoE skill? The tormentor activation is actually a buff, and a very weak one at that, should probably cost like 1000magicka max for what it does.

Because its heal got increased. Over buffed heals to say the least and will be nerfed in few patchs.

Aerenel

Maintaining the tormentor buff while above 50% target health is less damage than ignoring it and using extra spammables.

chris211

chrightt wrote: »

can single bar pets. Let us take a look at the recent PTS patch notes for petsorcs. While I doubt anyone would argue that pets were too OP pre-scalebreaker, I don't think any sane person will tell you pets are anything more than an annoyance these days rather than being strong, useful, or even usable in dragonhold as a skill that costs 2 skill slots out of the 10 we have in ESO. While honestly I personally don't really use pets in either PVP or PVE, I did try out pets in PVE before and can definitely recognize why some people like playing sorcerers with pets.

5.2.0
Summon Unstable Familiar
Reduced the damage of this ability and its morphs’ basic attack by approximately 17%. Increased the cost of the special activate of this ability and the Volatile Familiar morph to 4500, up from 2808. Increased the duration of the special activate to 10 seconds, up from 8. The base cost of summoning these abilities has been streamlined to 3510.

Summon Winged Twilight: Increased the heal of this ability and the Twilight Matriarch morph to be closer to the heal power of Rushed Ceremony. This will result in approximately 87% increase for the base, and approximately 55% increase for the Matriarch. Note that these abilities will continue to scale exclusively with Max Magicka.
What the patch notes FAILED to mention is winged twilight's activation ability also got tuned up to 4500 base cost so a lot of people were complaining that twilight Matriarch got a heal buff. Overall, I would say making per heal more impactful is not a bad idea but this is definitely not an overbuff at this point. The numbers might need to be tweaked, but if they are petsorcs should at least get something else with the following *** patch notes.

5.2.1 and 5.2.2
no changes.

5.2.3
Summon Unstable Familiar:
Increased the damage per hit of this ability and its morphs’ basic attacks by 20%.
Increased the damage of the pulse attack from this morph and the Volatile Familiar morph by 20%.

Summon Winged Twilight:
Increased the damage per hit of this ability and its morphs by 20%.

Keep in mind, 100*0.83*1.2 = 99.6
So over 5.2.0 + 5.2.3 patch notes summoned unstable familiar is actually slightly weaker than the current scalebreaker patch. Wing'ed twilight's damage got a slight buff.

Just when petsorcs thought the abysmal damage of their pets got a small buff......

5.2.4
Daedric Curse: Daedric Prey (morph): Reduced the bonus damage for pets to 20%, down from 40%.

Holy cow.... what else can I say. Pets take up 2 skills out of the 10 skills we can slot for ESO. At this point pets have power levels more similar to a single skill taking up a single skill slot. With the change to only needing to 1 bar pets we can only activate the ability on one bar anyways. Pet activation costs requiring 4k+ base magicka?!?! So do we just summon them to do minuscule damage? I much rather have the much MUCH more powerful necro pets even though they only last 16 seconds. I rather refresh USEFUL pets that create corpses for further boosts to skills than have a piece of garbage trailing around me doing 3% of my total damage and taking up 2 skill slots out of the precious 10. Also, it is not as if you can have multiple curses so your pet can AoE a bunch of enemies and get the bonuses in a short duration. It only lasts 6 freaking seconds too. At this point people might as well quit playing sorcerers. Opps, sorry I mean we might as well all slot Daedric Curse and save ourselves some magicka for needing to recast it every 6 seconds.

This Daedric Prey nerf is just unthinkable. What the f is ZOS doing?!?!?!No no, they definitely have a clue guys, they definitely do. Maybe ZoS can blame it on PVP?!?!? This is definitely not the fault of PVPers as PVPers tend to take Daedric Curse rather than Daedric Prey and you won't see any decent sorc running both pets as the opportunity cost for slotting pets is just great. Without running 2 pets, there isn't that much benefit running Daedric Prey. Taking up 2 skill slots is a huge detriment. If you bring one pet, getting locked out of 1 skill means you're 10% less versatile and is deprived of 1/10th of the skills you can bring to battle. So why don't we just make pets freaking 1 barred at this point because its activation cost is very expensive and its permanent uselessness is also very freaking taxing on the skill bar at the moment. SOS ZOS, maybe you can just delete the whole playstyle or the whole class. Why don't you? I mean we only have streak left to run away from everyone right? Even freaking shields only work in CP situations because they're so damned inefficient in non-CP. What the FVCK does class identity mean to you at this point? Buff DKs, buff DKS, buff MORE DKS to do double the DoTs sorcerer has? oh ***..... wait our only dot is from our now useless pets.

remove pets from the game

Iskiab

chris211 wrote: »

chrightt wrote: »

can single bar pets. Let us take a look at the recent PTS patch notes for petsorcs. While I doubt anyone would argue that pets were too OP pre-scalebreaker, I don't think any sane person will tell you pets are anything more than an annoyance these days rather than being strong, useful, or even usable in dragonhold as a skill that costs 2 skill slots out of the 10 we have in ESO. While honestly I personally don't really use pets in either PVP or PVE, I did try out pets in PVE before and can definitely recognize why some people like playing sorcerers with pets.

5.2.0
Summon Unstable Familiar
Reduced the damage of this ability and its morphs’ basic attack by approximately 17%. Increased the cost of the special activate of this ability and the Volatile Familiar morph to 4500, up from 2808. Increased the duration of the special activate to 10 seconds, up from 8. The base cost of summoning these abilities has been streamlined to 3510.

Summon Winged Twilight: Increased the heal of this ability and the Twilight Matriarch morph to be closer to the heal power of Rushed Ceremony. This will result in approximately 87% increase for the base, and approximately 55% increase for the Matriarch. Note that these abilities will continue to scale exclusively with Max Magicka.
What the patch notes FAILED to mention is winged twilight's activation ability also got tuned up to 4500 base cost so a lot of people were complaining that twilight Matriarch got a heal buff. Overall, I would say making per heal more impactful is not a bad idea but this is definitely not an overbuff at this point. The numbers might need to be tweaked, but if they are petsorcs should at least get something else with the following *** patch notes.

5.2.1 and 5.2.2
no changes.

5.2.3
Summon Unstable Familiar:
Increased the damage per hit of this ability and its morphs’ basic attacks by 20%.
Increased the damage of the pulse attack from this morph and the Volatile Familiar morph by 20%.

Summon Winged Twilight:
Increased the damage per hit of this ability and its morphs by 20%.

Keep in mind, 100*0.83*1.2 = 99.6
So over 5.2.0 + 5.2.3 patch notes summoned unstable familiar is actually slightly weaker than the current scalebreaker patch. Wing'ed twilight's damage got a slight buff.

Just when petsorcs thought the abysmal damage of their pets got a small buff......

5.2.4
Daedric Curse: Daedric Prey (morph): Reduced the bonus damage for pets to 20%, down from 40%.

Holy cow.... what else can I say. Pets take up 2 skills out of the 10 skills we can slot for ESO. At this point pets have power levels more similar to a single skill taking up a single skill slot. With the change to only needing to 1 bar pets we can only activate the ability on one bar anyways. Pet activation costs requiring 4k+ base magicka?!?! So do we just summon them to do minuscule damage? I much rather have the much MUCH more powerful necro pets even though they only last 16 seconds. I rather refresh USEFUL pets that create corpses for further boosts to skills than have a piece of garbage trailing around me doing 3% of my total damage and taking up 2 skill slots out of the precious 10. Also, it is not as if you can have multiple curses so your pet can AoE a bunch of enemies and get the bonuses in a short duration. It only lasts 6 freaking seconds too. At this point people might as well quit playing sorcerers. Opps, sorry I mean we might as well all slot Daedric Curse and save ourselves some magicka for needing to recast it every 6 seconds.

This Daedric Prey nerf is just unthinkable. What the f is ZOS doing?!?!?!No no, they definitely have a clue guys, they definitely do. Maybe ZoS can blame it on PVP?!?!? This is definitely not the fault of PVPers as PVPers tend to take Daedric Curse rather than Daedric Prey and you won't see any decent sorc running both pets as the opportunity cost for slotting pets is just great. Without running 2 pets, there isn't that much benefit running Daedric Prey. Taking up 2 skill slots is a huge detriment. If you bring one pet, getting locked out of 1 skill means you're 10% less versatile and is deprived of 1/10th of the skills you can bring to battle. So why don't we just make pets freaking 1 barred at this point because its activation cost is very expensive and its permanent uselessness is also very freaking taxing on the skill bar at the moment. SOS ZOS, maybe you can just delete the whole playstyle or the whole class. Why don't you? I mean we only have streak left to run away from everyone right? Even freaking shields only work in CP situations because they're so damned inefficient in non-CP. What the FVCK does class identity mean to you at this point? Buff DKs, buff DKS, buff MORE DKS to do double the DoTs sorcerer has? oh ***..... wait our only dot is from our now useless pets.

remove pets from the game

I hate pets but like the sorc toolkit. Sounds great to me! Replace the sorc pet skills with different abilities to help round out the class.

jcm2606

As I've said in the past, IMO pets should just be completely reworked.

As you said, allow pets to be single barred. The game can handle this, Necro's corpse draining skills cause an effect to show over nearby corpses, regardless of which bar they're slotted on, or which you're currently on. Extend that behaviour to pets, allow pets to detect whether they're slotted on either bar, front or back.

Redesign the pet morphs to force a clear cut choice between damage or healing/utility, and only allow a player to summon 1 pet at a time. Clannfear could be for damage, Twilight for healing. Commit each pet to their respective role, Clannfear uses basic attacks with an active attack on recasting the skill, Twilight passively heals similar to Necro's ghost with an active heal on recasting the skill. Make players choose between damage or healing, they can't have both.

Remove pet targeting on damage skills, keep it on CC skills (making sure to give the Sorc priority, so players won't accidentally CC the pet when they didn't want to), and rework enemy pet interaction to push shutting a pet down into CC. Bash may shut the pet's passive functionality down for a few seconds, stun shuts the pet down entirely for a second or two, giving it immunity afterwards. This removes the times where the pet steals an attack or two from an enemy, removing Sorc's free LoS from pets, while still offering a way for enemy players to deal with pets.

Rianai wrote: »

Before pets - all of them, not just sorc pets - get any buffs they should be made untargetable.

This would make them less obnoxious to play against (no matter how bad the pets are, fighting a zoo is always disgusting, and even just a single one can be annoying as hell) and it would make them more reliable, so their unreliability and the whole "but they can be killed" argument can't be used as justification to make them op one way or another.

Targetable pets will never be balanced in this game.

Tab target also doesn't work, either, so pet builds that (ab)use targeting shenanigans can literally be uncounterable in some situations. Pets are insanely strong, even if their advantages aren't plainly spelled out for us.

buttaface

The minute they become untargetable timed buffs of no more than 40 second duration that provide no LOS, the minute their size is halved or more, the minute they are instantly despawned in every town, crafting hut, bank, guild trader, etc., I would gladly support having them single slot.

As it is? No way. Bane of the game as far as I'm concerned, and bad for it in several ways. Same for the bears, at least they are an ultimate, just as ugly and unimmersive though.

Stibbons

Twilight Matriarch heal is just insane and easy. It still should be toned down to match other heals.

Witar

Pet sorcs weren't op in pve, juts easier to master with bad damage (in comparison with non pet sorc). In pvp they were mostly annoying, and it could be fixed by making pets untargetable for example. Not nerfing them to the ground.

Austinseph1

Actually making a pet build took 3 skill slots to be viable, now the difference between slotting pets and just using an normal build is far enough apart that that many won’t bother unless you are gona RP a daedra tamer or something. Sorc has a lot of awesome skills to use next patch, none of which will be pet skills.