Something strange going on with Dragons...

Morgha_Kul

So, since the dragons first appeared, I've been out there tanking them with comparatively little difficulty. Even my squishier characters have been able to take a hit and recover from it. However, over the last couple of nights, I've seen some strange things.

It actually happened a few weeks ago, but I didn't really pay attention to it until last night, when my Necromancer was hit by a tail swipe for nearly a million damage. I was kind of shocked to see over 900k damage in a single hit, but chalked it up to her being only L13 and not wearing any armour (which I had removed and forgot to put back on).

Tonight, my main tanky character was tanking a dragon in Elsweyr and doing his usual bit of taunting it with Ransack while maintaining Defensive Stance and healing as needed. The dragon reared up his head to do his Chomp attack, so I refreshed Defensive Stance and blocked. When it hit me, it did 315k damage. Of course, that's a oneshot kill, regardless of any defensive measures I took. Yes, I could have dodged, but I wear Thunderbug armour which requires getting hit to activate a lightning strike, and I've easily tanked the Chomp attack many times... even many times in THAT fight.

So what is going on? Is there a bug?

Grianasteri

I have not noted the numbers as you have, but I have noticed that big hits that I have been able to block in the past, have sometimes been one hitting me.

Its like the Dragon gets enraged and if you stand too close decides, enough is enough, your going down.

Personally I do not mind too much, I think the Dragons are too easy and could do with a bit of a buff.

IndianaJames7

Yeah I think they changed something related to proximity to dragon. Happened to me too where I was hit by a huge amount of damage and one shot. My guess is it’s related to if you are inside the proximity circle too long and your screen turns orange that’s when attacks become op.

Yuffie91

If I do get hit by one of them it's usually an instant splat mode for me

Mr_Walker

900K damage? LOL.

Huyen

Its not just dragons. My tank got hit for 75k by a traahmob in a vet dungeon. Its defo a bug.

ChunkyCat

Who let the dragons out?

Who? Who?

FierceSam

Dragon ‘fights’ are simply tedious for this exact reason.

One shot mechanics are no fun.

Untelegraphed tail swipes, wing swipes that extend for 180 degrees and long distances and headbutts that insta kill make these fights no fun

It’s no wonder that there are currently 3 dragons up in Elsweyr being happily unthreatened by players.

Thoroughly bad game design

Nirntrotter

FierceSam wrote: »

Untelegraphed tail swipes

They don't have extra effects, but the dragons will lift their tails quite a while before they actually hit you, so it's easy to dodge imho.

I haven't noticed any difference in damage myself, but I'm usually staying ranged so if it's proximity related I wouldn't see it of course. Personally I would absolutely not want dragons in a TES game to be easy to take down though.

GreenhaloX

Grianasteri wrote: »

I have not noted the numbers as you have, but I have noticed that big hits that I have been able to block in the past, have sometimes been one hitting me.

Its like the Dragon gets enraged and if you stand too close decides, enough is enough, your going down.

Personally I do not mind too much, I think the Dragons are too easy and could do with a bit of a buff.

Again.. sure during the event when there are army of peeps camped out to take on a dragon or world bosses. Try taking on a dragon by just a few peeps or your lonesome, and see how you can boast how easy things are. Now that the event is over and the hoard of peeps are not camping out, and you only have like 4-5 peeps, the dragon is a challenge. Plus, being able to rez on the spot does make thing easier. Maybe ZOS needs to make it where in the likes of world boss pits and dragons that you need another to rez you like in dungeons.

DirkRavenclaw

I was nearly 4 Months gone, shortly after Elsweyr dropped. Now, with start of the Elsweyr Event i came back and noticed the Dragons and also, that, on my cp1041 now Toons, Trashmobs have 66k and more in Heahlt. I think they sneaked something in there, this Amount of Heahlt i used only to see in Craglorn, public and Group Dungeons and Trials, not a Trashmob out in Elsweyr, Auridon and co. That said, i havent read all the Patchnotes ZOS put out, so i dont know to 100% that they sneaked it in

VelimOrthic

Grianasteri wrote: »

Its like the Dragon gets enraged and if you stand too close decides, enough is enough, your going down.

That's close to what my reasoning has been. From experience, I think the devs figured that if you're underneath a dragon, you're getting squished and that's that. Unfortunately (if that's the case) they can at times rotate so rapidly that their center mass can all of a sudden be over you even though all that really moved was their tail and head. I don't mind the reasoning for the main point here, but it could be implemented more believably. If you run into it and you die, that's fine. If it moves its legs and therefore its body in your direction, same. I don't like the rotating bit.

AlienSlof

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Who let the dragons out?

Who? Who?

Abnur Tharn did...

starkerealm

AlienSlof wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Who let the dragons out?

Who? Who?

Abnur Tharn did...

Son of a...!

Grianasteri

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

I have not noted the numbers as you have, but I have noticed that big hits that I have been able to block in the past, have sometimes been one hitting me.

Its like the Dragon gets enraged and if you stand too close decides, enough is enough, your going down.

Personally I do not mind too much, I think the Dragons are too easy and could do with a bit of a buff.

Again.. sure during the event when there are army of peeps camped out to take on a dragon or world bosses. Try taking on a dragon by just a few peeps or your lonesome, and see how you can boast how easy things are. Now that the event is over and the hoard of peeps are not camping out, and you only have like 4-5 peeps, the dragon is a challenge. Plus, being able to rez on the spot does make thing easier. Maybe ZOS needs to make it where in the likes of world boss pits and dragons that you need another to rez you like in dungeons.

Of course its easier during the event. But that is not the context for my comment.

I have 2 manned the Wyverns. My friend has soloed them.

The Wyverns are a challenge I agree. With small groups or solo, put a foot wrong, and it can be over. But like most similar things in ESO, if you learn and play the mechanics it becomes more manageable.

I think one thing ESO does poorly is scaling bosses to the number of people fighting them. World bosses overland and the "dragons" should scale.

Morgha_Kul

FierceSam wrote: »

Dragon ‘fights’ are simply tedious for this exact reason.

One shot mechanics are no fun.

Untelegraphed tail swipes, wing swipes that extend for 180 degrees and long distances and headbutts that insta kill make these fights no fun

It’s no wonder that there are currently 3 dragons up in Elsweyr being happily unthreatened by players.

Thoroughly bad game design

I agree, oneshot mechanics are dumb, especially when there's no warning or no way to avoid getting killed. When there's nothing you can DO, there's no GAME, if you see what I mean.

ethuiliel wrote: »

FierceSam wrote: »

Untelegraphed tail swipes

They don't have extra effects, but the dragons will lift their tails quite a while before they actually hit you, so it's easy to dodge imho.

I haven't noticed any difference in damage myself, but I'm usually staying ranged so if it's proximity related I wouldn't see it of course. Personally I would absolutely not want dragons in a TES game to be easy to take down though.

Ya, the tail swipe I usually see coming, as with most of the attacks, but there's a few that you either don't have time to avoid, or can't avoid (such as the quick fireballs he spits out that track you, and do 10s of thousands of damage per pulse, unblockable, unsoakable and impossible to heal through). Attacks that are guaranteed to kill you no matter what you do are not any fun because there's no game involved in trying to survive it.

Raideen

Funny, I recall just days ago a particular member pointing out that my claims of instant death out of nowhere being exaggerated or false claims (and they then went on to flame me), and yet here we are on a completely unrelated topic with other members describing the same thing.

I don't know if its a bug, I don't know if its intentional but what I do know is that death without warning is not excusable.

jircris11

Morgha_Kul wrote: »

So, since the dragons first appeared, I've been out there tanking them with comparatively little difficulty. Even my squishier characters have been able to take a hit and recover from it. However, over the last couple of nights, I've seen some strange things.

It actually happened a few weeks ago, but I didn't really pay attention to it until last night, when my Necromancer was hit by a tail swipe for nearly a million damage. I was kind of shocked to see over 900k damage in a single hit, but chalked it up to her being only L13 and not wearing any armour (which I had removed and forgot to put back on).

Tonight, my main tanky character was tanking a dragon in Elsweyr and doing his usual bit of taunting it with Ransack while maintaining Defensive Stance and healing as needed. The dragon reared up his head to do his Chomp attack, so I refreshed Defensive Stance and blocked. When it hit me, it did 315k damage. Of course, that's a oneshot kill, regardless of any defensive measures I took. Yes, I could have dodged, but I wear Thunderbug armour which requires getting hit to activate a lightning strike, and I've easily tanked the Chomp attack many times... even many times in THAT fight.

So what is going on? Is there a bug?

It's like the guards, after x amount if time agroed to you it will one shot you

jircris11

Raideen wrote: »

Funny, I recall just days ago a particular member pointing out that my claims of instant death out of nowhere being exaggerated or false claims (and they then went on to flame me), and yet here we are on a completely unrelated topic with other members describing the same thing.

I don't know if its a bug, I don't know if its intentional but what I do know is that death without warning is not excusable.

Your screen turns orange when your aggro has got to a one shot kill. I have tested it a few times and every time I got the orange screen effect then the next skill targeted at me killed me instant. Only counter is to step back and let some one else tank for a moment untill the screen is normal.

Dawnblade

Grianasteri wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

I have not noted the numbers as you have, but I have noticed that big hits that I have been able to block in the past, have sometimes been one hitting me.

Its like the Dragon gets enraged and if you stand too close decides, enough is enough, your going down.

Personally I do not mind too much, I think the Dragons are too easy and could do with a bit of a buff.

Again.. sure during the event when there are army of peeps camped out to take on a dragon or world bosses. Try taking on a dragon by just a few peeps or your lonesome, and see how you can boast how easy things are. Now that the event is over and the hoard of peeps are not camping out, and you only have like 4-5 peeps, the dragon is a challenge. Plus, being able to rez on the spot does make thing easier. Maybe ZOS needs to make it where in the likes of world boss pits and dragons that you need another to rez you like in dungeons.

Of course its easier during the event. But that is not the context for my comment.

I have 2 manned the Wyverns. My friend has soloed them.

The Wyverns are a challenge I agree. With small groups or solo, put a foot wrong, and it can be over. But like most similar things in ESO, if you learn and play the mechanics it becomes more manageable.

I think one thing ESO does poorly is scaling bosses to the number of people fighting them. World bosses overland and the "dragons" should scale.

Large groups are somewhat countered by mechanics that require positioning to avoid certain attacks, which can be much more difficult to manage when in a crowded area with a bunch of random people randomly moving around.

While the boss will die much faster, I generally see a lot more players dying and rezzing when the group size is large.

When I come across large random groups attacking these bosses, I am likely to stay at max range in an uncrowded area and just get enough damage to get credit (like others in this thread - I don't find dying to unavoidable 'because its a boss duh' one shot damage fun or engaging).

IMO all mechanics of outdoor bosses should be clearly telegraphed and players given enough time to react based on the average latency experienced in busy areas, and / or should be tuned with the assumption random players will inevitably run bad stuff on top of each other.

Raideen

jircris11 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Funny, I recall just days ago a particular member pointing out that my claims of instant death out of nowhere being exaggerated or false claims (and they then went on to flame me), and yet here we are on a completely unrelated topic with other members describing the same thing.

I don't know if its a bug, I don't know if its intentional but what I do know is that death without warning is not excusable.

Your screen turns orange when your aggro has got to a one shot kill. I have tested it a few times and every time I got the orange screen effect then the next skill targeted at me killed me instant. Only counter is to step back and let some one else tank for a moment untill the screen is normal.

I have been one shot without having aggro, no warning, no screen flash, nothing on the ground. Just alive then dead. And its happened on multiple occasions, and no its not hardware (9900k, RTX 2080, 32g ram, FIOS), its not latency (I live in the same area as the PC NA server) and its not a lack of paying attention (played this game long enough to understand its mechanics), Ive run most vets and some trials.

xeha_arwen11

There's definitely some new attack type thing with the dragons. My tanky healer had no issues until very recently. She is getting hit for 70k now. I have never seen her get hit by anything near that much when fighting dragons in the past, and I've fought thousands of them. I think ZOS made it so that if you are really close to the dragon for too long, you get destroyed. That's been my experience. I saw her get the orange screen too. I could be wrong, but I think MAYBE the name of the orange screen one-shot is "incineration point". Again, I'm not sure, but I've seen that be the name for the 70k hits lately.

It's not just aggro, from what I've seen. I've gotten the orange screen one-shot several times with my healer when the dragon was purely aggroed to a tank on the other side of the area.

Morgha_Kul

I've seen the screen go orange a few times... I didn't know what it meant, I thought it was that I'd got into its damage aura. In such cases, I just roll backward, and the screen would go back to normal.

However, in neither case of massive damage was my screen orange. My Necromancer was off behind the dragon and didn't have aggro that I know of, and her screen wasn't orange. My Templar tanking was in front and closer, but no orange screen.

Veinblood1965

Well they are DRAGONS, not bears. Suck it up and dodge

jircris11

Raideen wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Funny, I recall just days ago a particular member pointing out that my claims of instant death out of nowhere being exaggerated or false claims (and they then went on to flame me), and yet here we are on a completely unrelated topic with other members describing the same thing.

I don't know if its a bug, I don't know if its intentional but what I do know is that death without warning is not excusable.

Your screen turns orange when your aggro has got to a one shot kill. I have tested it a few times and every time I got the orange screen effect then the next skill targeted at me killed me instant. Only counter is to step back and let some one else tank for a moment untill the screen is normal.

I have been one shot without having aggro, no warning, no screen flash, nothing on the ground. Just alive then dead. And its happened on multiple occasions, and no its not hardware (9900k, RTX 2080, 32g ram, FIOS), its not latency (I live in the same area as the PC NA server) and its not a lack of paying attention (played this game long enough to understand its mechanics), Ive run most vets and some trials.

Never said it was, the skills used tend to be aoe so it could have targeted someone else but you got caught.

Nova Sky

Pfft. If the dragons think they have it bad now with the Vestiges attacking them, just wait until said Vestiges come back as Dragonborns in Skyrim!

Raideen

jircris11 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

jircris11 wrote: »

Raideen wrote: »

Funny, I recall just days ago a particular member pointing out that my claims of instant death out of nowhere being exaggerated or false claims (and they then went on to flame me), and yet here we are on a completely unrelated topic with other members describing the same thing.

I don't know if its a bug, I don't know if its intentional but what I do know is that death without warning is not excusable.

Your screen turns orange when your aggro has got to a one shot kill. I have tested it a few times and every time I got the orange screen effect then the next skill targeted at me killed me instant. Only counter is to step back and let some one else tank for a moment untill the screen is normal.

I have been one shot without having aggro, no warning, no screen flash, nothing on the ground. Just alive then dead. And its happened on multiple occasions, and no its not hardware (9900k, RTX 2080, 32g ram, FIOS), its not latency (I live in the same area as the PC NA server) and its not a lack of paying attention (played this game long enough to understand its mechanics), Ive run most vets and some trials.

Never said it was, the skills used tend to be aoe so it could have targeted someone else but you got caught.

I just point out the hardware internet thing to nip it in the bud because that is usually the next rebuttal by the person I am talking with.

As far as being targeted due to someone elses attack, no I don't think that is it and it it was my point still stands. Death should never occur without some warning.

rpa

Well, I kept to ranged dps during event. And blocked every time dragon seemed to be up to something. Dragon fights seem to be easily visually desynced, graphic position has little to do where it's heading and telegraph red (in rare cases it's actually visible) can be at completely different place than damage.

I did attempt melee to try some tanky armor but after 'oneshot 100K+ with no warning'-hits just gave up. Maybe there is some mechanic I do not know or something.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

AlienSlof wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Who let the dragons out?

Who? Who?

Abnur Tharn did...

With your help.... if you hadn't answer his call to do the quest.....

Morgha_Kul

I must say, it's kind of a relief that it's not just me.

Sad but true.

https://youtu.be/qqYiMFQPbWc?t=14

de_la_Dude

Noticed this last night as well. A buddy and I did two or three dragons and the first and last dragons were normal but the middle guy really put up a fight! It seemed to take forever to get him below 50% and my tank buddy was constantly getting oneshot by some sort of enrage mechanic, it even had a specific name (edit: incineration point like a previous person said).

I was playing a lowbie dps and was able to keep myself alive through lot of wing waps and tail swipes on the two 'normal' dragons but died SIX times on the one that was acting differently.

Bug or not it was a nice surprise IMO