Stone Giant Pros and Cons

llElLoboll

I don't normally post on the forums but I feel stone giant is worth talking about. I see a lot of potential for the skill but like many other good ideas (volendrung for example) the emplementation just isn't good.

Let's start off with the pros.
1.The damage is pretty decent compared to other spammables. I compared the tooltips of dswing, crushing weapon, and noxious vs stone giant and I like where the damage is sitting.
2.Also another plus imo is the speed of the "stone" when it's thrown. From my testing on the pts that is pretty much the end of the positives.

Now for the cons.
1.The cost is quite a bit higher than other spammables. Stone giant sits at 3270 stam while dswing is 2187, crushing weapon 2226, and noxious is 2088. That is a pretty large difference when you really aren't getting very much from the skill.
2.Next we have the fact that the skill is ranged. I personally put this as a negative because it doesn't fit the playstyle of the class and therefore makes no sense. I could see the arguement though that on a purely melee class the ability to hit someone far away with your spammable would be nice.
3.Let's also look at the cc mechanic. You have to hit someone 3 times to proc a stun. No other cc in the game comes even remotely close to working this way. Fear, petrify, streak, and javelin all cc instantly, as they should imo. In pvp cc's are used in combination with good timing to burst typically. Having to hit someone three times to set up a burst combo is just not good. Especially when you compare this "cc" to others that cc immediately on cast.
4.Now let's look at the monstrous damage increase this skill gives. When you hit someone you deal an extra 45 damage to that enemy for 6 seconds and that stacks three times. So you can gain 135 extra damage at max stacks, seriously? In pvp that will be roughly 35 extra damage or less depending on resistances after battle spirit. Makes zero sense whatsoever. What if instead we go back and look at the cc mechanic that is tied to the skill and rework both of these points. What if instead of staggering after three hits or an extra 45 damage per stack that instead you gain a percentage extra damage versus that person. If instead of 45 damage you gained something like 2% increased damage with a max of 6% you could just remove the "cc" mechanic and this would also give reason for the skill to cost substantially more than other stam spammables.

Hopefully this skill gets adjusted prior to going live and becomes worth using. I really like the idea of stamdk having a class spammable but currently this just isn't it imo.

Edit: Some of y'all have mentioned the helping hands passive reducing the cost of stone giant by 990. That is something I forgot about and is a good point.

Lokey0024

Can the debuff from Stonefist be cleansed?

zDan

Joke of a skill. How are you gonna land 3 of them in an xv1 situation? Completely unreliable, if the cc was instant on the first cast then it would be a good skill. Pretty sure the debuff can be cleansed too.

llElLoboll

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Can the debuff from Stonefist be cleansed?

I'm not sure about the cleanse but I believe so.

zDan wrote: »

Joke of a skill. How are you gonna land 3 of them in an xv1 situation? Completely unreliable, if the cc was instant on the first cast then it would be a good skill. Pretty sure the debuff can be cleansed too.

Yeah it's hard to consistently stun in a 1v1 much less open world. I would really like to see a percentage increase per stack since it's considered the "dot" class and completely remove the cc mechanic. I'm super excited to potentially have a class spammable but this is pretty aweful imo.

OG_Kaveman

Stone giant sits at 3270 stam

you get 990 stam back every time you cast it, effectively making it 2280 on your build.

llElLoboll

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Stone giant sits at 3270 stam

you get 990 stam back every time you cast it, effectively making it 2280 on your build.

Fair point

kalunte

llElLoboll wrote: »

3.Let's also look at the cc mechanic. You have to hit someone 3 times to proc a stun. No other cc in the game comes even remotely close to working this way. Fear, petrify, streak, and javelin all cc instantly, as they should imo. In pvp cc's are used in combination with good timing to burst typically. Having to hit someone three times to set up a burst combo is just not good. Especially when you compare this "cc" to others that cc immediately on cast.

all the skill you've listed have lowered dmg because they stun. i'm pretty sure you dont want that spammable to have its dmg lowereds to any of those skills.

besides, there is a skill called "permafrost" that stuns after few tics, which an aoe dot ultimate, but still exist. this mechanism will be given to artic blast and removed from permafrost with 5.2.x

as for the stackable flat dmg buff on target, this will only give stam DK some more group utility (as if they were lacking of group utility..) in both pve and pvp. this is actually a 100% pure bonus that isnt needed at all to have a viable spammable. probably cleanse-able in pvp but well. some ults are cleansable too...


i'm not sure about your cons bro, really.

psk177ub17_ESO

zDan wrote: »

Joke of a skill. How are you gonna land 3 of them in an xv1 situation? Completely unreliable, if the cc was instant on the first cast then it would be a good skill. Pretty sure the debuff can be cleansed too.

Bruh its 4th quarter of 2019 ...you still think people cant 1vX in this game .. ::: OMEGA LUL ::: this is for straight up casual players. Get real.

Lokey0024

Kinda cool and not that it can be cleansed. I'd have wanted it to stay at 5 stacks to protect dots from being purged, but the synergy takes all dots anyhow.

MartiniDaniels

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Stone giant sits at 3270 stam

you get 990 stam back every time you cast it, effectively making it 2280 on your build.

Let's increase cost of class abilities of templar and sorcerer for 5%, to compensate for class passives.
/s

It is unfair to nullify class passive for class abilities by increasing cost of stam fist. Change passive to return magicka in case stam ability was used and give it fair cost of spammable. So far this looks like a PVE ability to buff damage on 12-people raid, 7500 stamina and 3 GCD to stun (accounting helping hands) in PVP looks like waste of slot.

SipofMaim

llElLoboll wrote: »

I don't normally post on the forums but I feel stone giant is worth talking about. I see a lot of potential for the skill but like many other good ideas (volendrung for example) the emplementation just isn't good.

Now for the cons.

3.Let's also look at the cc mechanic. You have to hit someone 3 times to proc a stun. No other cc in the game comes even remotely close to working this way. Fear, petrify, streak, and javelin all cc instantly, as they should imo. In pvp cc's are used in combination with good timing to burst typically. Having to hit someone three times to set up a burst combo is just not good. Especially when you compare this "cc" to others that cc immediately on cast.

I really don't like where they're heading with stacks of this and that. The payoff with merciless was a giant damage splat. StamDk inherits this mechanic to get... a stun.

The "second/third cast" mechanic on the warden flies and necro skull would seem like a better option. Third cast stuns. Boom. The DK gets to choose when the stun comes into play, and it isn't on every single cast, which would suck on a "spammable".

But it's late in the PTS cycle for that kind of change.

OG_Kaveman

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Stone giant sits at 3270 stam

you get 990 stam back every time you cast it, effectively making it 2280 on your build.

Let's increase cost of class abilities of templar and sorcerer for 5%, to compensate for class passives.
/s

It is unfair to nullify class passive for class abilities by increasing cost of stam fist. Change passive to return magicka in case stam ability was used and give it fair cost of spammable. So far this looks like a PVE ability to buff damage on 12-people raid, 7500 stamina and 3 GCD to stun (accounting helping hands) in PVP looks like waste of slot.

i mean, dks also are going to get 500 stam back every time you proc poisoned, or every time you cast an ulti, which casting this skill will contribute too, "you also generate 3 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds." from mountains blessing, something that you would be hard press to proc off cool down on a stamdk right?

llElLoboll

kalunte wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

3.Let's also look at the cc mechanic. You have to hit someone 3 times to proc a stun. No other cc in the game comes even remotely close to working this way. Fear, petrify, streak, and javelin all cc instantly, as they should imo. In pvp cc's are used in combination with good timing to burst typically. Having to hit someone three times to set up a burst combo is just not good. Especially when you compare this "cc" to others that cc immediately on cast.

all the skill you've listed have lowered dmg because they stun. i'm pretty sure you dont want that spammable to have its dmg lowereds to any of those skills.

besides, there is a skill called "permafrost" that stuns after few tics, which an aoe dot ultimate, but still exist. this mechanism will be given to artic blast and removed from permafrost with 5.2.x

as for the stackable flat dmg buff on target, this will only give stam DK some more group utility (as if they were lacking of group utility..) in both pve and pvp. this is actually a 100% pure bonus that isnt needed at all to have a viable spammable. probably cleanse-able in pvp but well. some ults are cleansable too...


i'm not sure about your cons bro, really.

You seem to be missing my overall point that most of the mechanics and bonuses attached to this skill make no sense. The cc mechanic is going to be random and hard to take advantage of because players will dodge and block the attacks. The stackable 45 extra damage makes no sense because after battle spirit and player resists it will most likely give an extra 30 damage or less at max stats. Instead of pointing out the faults of the post why not try to improve upon it since from what I've seen the majority of the DK community has already written the skill off as yet another terrible adjustment that will never become any good and useful.

Ragnarock41

Hey @llElLoboll , I agree with all of your points, however it feels to me that this ability was designed for PvE in mind, not PvP.

Clearly the goal was to give stamDK group utility in end game raids, and everything else, especially PvP, was secondary.

I don't think a spammable would even be neccessary if heroic slash wasn't nerfed so heavily.

Ragnarock41

kalunte wrote: »

llElLoboll wrote: »

3.Let's also look at the cc mechanic. You have to hit someone 3 times to proc a stun. No other cc in the game comes even remotely close to working this way. Fear, petrify, streak, and javelin all cc instantly, as they should imo. In pvp cc's are used in combination with good timing to burst typically. Having to hit someone three times to set up a burst combo is just not good. Especially when you compare this "cc" to others that cc immediately on cast.

all the skill you've listed have lowered dmg because they stun. i'm pretty sure you dont want that spammable to have its dmg lowereds to any of those skills.

besides, there is a skill called "permafrost" that stuns after few tics, which an aoe dot ultimate, but still exist. this mechanism will be given to artic blast and removed from permafrost with 5.2.x

as for the stackable flat dmg buff on target, this will only give stam DK some more group utility (as if they were lacking of group utility..) in both pve and pvp. this is actually a 100% pure bonus that isnt needed at all to have a viable spammable. probably cleanse-able in pvp but well. some ults are cleansable too...


i'm not sure about your cons bro, really.

Permafrost is an AoE stun that doesn't require you to waste multiple GCDs for a stun, It also comes with AoE damage, major protection to allies and yourself for the entire duration, and it lets you use other abilities while its on making it braindead easy to finish the rest of your AoE combo. I get its an ultimate but still, bad comparission.

As for the stagger's stackable damage, its halved by battle spirit, dodgeable, blockable,reflectable, absorbable,cleansable, and you need to stack it up for each enemy, one by one, that is not how you be valueable to a group in PvP. Unless your understanding of PvP is grouping up with 20 others and chase single players? If you're that type of player surely this is the perfect spammable for you.

Ragnarock41

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Stone giant sits at 3270 stam

you get 990 stam back every time you cast it, effectively making it 2280 on your build.

That passive exists because earthen heart was never meant to be a skill line for stamina abilities. The logical thing to do would be a stam whip, no matter how much people wants to deny it.

OG_Kaveman

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Stone giant sits at 3270 stam

you get 990 stam back every time you cast it, effectively making it 2280 on your build.

That passive exists because earthen heart was never meant to be a skill line for stamina abilities. The logical thing to do would be a stam whip, no matter how much people wants to deny it.

The logical thing would be to make that passive return magic When used with that skill and lower the cost of the skill.

GeorgeBlack

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Stone giant sits at 3270 stam

you get 990 stam back every time you cast it, effectively making it 2280 on your build.

That passive exists because earthen heart was never meant to be a skill line for stamina abilities. The logical thing to do would be a stam whip, no matter how much people wants to deny it.

The logical thing would be to make that passive return magic When used with that skill and lower the cost of the skill.

That would be Zos logic.
Common logic would be "no player likes it. Let's do something else"

Davadin

llElLoboll wrote: »

I don't normally post on the forums but I feel stone giant is worth talking about. I see a lot of potential for the skill but like many other good ideas (volendrung for example) the emplementation just isn't good.

Let's start off with the pros.
1.The damage is pretty decent compared to other spammables. I compared the tooltips of dswing, crushing weapon, and noxious vs stone giant and I like where the damage is sitting.
2.Also another plus imo is the speed of the "stone" when it's thrown. From my testing on the pts that is pretty much the end of the positives.

Now for the cons.
1.The cost is quite a bit higher than other spammables. Stone giant sits at 3270 stam while dswing is 2187, crushing weapon 2226, and noxious is 2088. That is a pretty large difference when you really aren't getting very much from the skill.
2.Next we have the fact that the skill is ranged. I personally put this as a negative because it doesn't fit the playstyle of the class and therefore makes no sense. I could see the arguement though that on a purely melee class the ability to hit someone far away with your spammable would be nice.
3.Let's also look at the cc mechanic. You have to hit someone 3 times to proc a stun. No other cc in the game comes even remotely close to working this way. Fear, petrify, streak, and javelin all cc instantly, as they should imo. In pvp cc's are used in combination with good timing to burst typically. Having to hit someone three times to set up a burst combo is just not good. Especially when you compare this "cc" to others that cc immediately on cast.
4.Now let's look at the monstrous damage increase this skill gives. When you hit someone you deal an extra 45 damage to that enemy for 6 seconds and that stacks three times. So you can gain 135 extra damage at max stacks, seriously? In pvp that will be roughly 35 extra damage or less depending on resistances after battle spirit. Makes zero sense whatsoever. What if instead we go back and look at the cc mechanic that is tied to the skill and rework both of these points. What if instead of staggering after three hits or an extra 45 damage per stack that instead you gain a percentage extra damage versus that person. If instead of 45 damage you gained something like 2% increased damage with a max of 6% you could just remove the "cc" mechanic and this would also give reason for the skill to cost substantially more than other stam spammables.

Hopefully this skill gets adjusted prior to going live and becomes worth using. I really like the idea of stamdk having a class spammable but currently this just isn't it imo.

thanks for summarizing what every DK been crying all over the forum the past few weeks lol....

btw great YT videos! i'm a subber

agree with everything u said, so basically i propose the damage stacks but WAY much more, like double it at least.

or

cut the cost by 50%.

or

both.....

i dont care about the stun, at a stack of 3 its pretty useless.



i do, however, enjoy the fact it's a ranged skill. its pretty useful in open cyro.

llElLoboll

Davadin wrote: »

thanks for summarizing what every DK been crying all over the forum the past few weeks lol....

btw great YT videos! i'm a subber

agree with everything u said, so basically i propose the damage stacks but WAY much more, like double it at least.

or

cut the cost by 50%.

or

both.....

i dont care about the stun, at a stack of 3 its pretty useless.



i do, however, enjoy the fact it's a ranged skill. its pretty useful in open cyro.

I hadn't come across a post that consolidated everything yet so figured I would give it a try lol. Thanks for the support it's greatly appreciated!

Ragnarock41

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Stone giant sits at 3270 stam

you get 990 stam back every time you cast it, effectively making it 2280 on your build.

That passive exists because earthen heart was never meant to be a skill line for stamina abilities. The logical thing to do would be a stam whip, no matter how much people wants to deny it.

The logical thing would be to make that passive return magic When used with that skill and lower the cost of the skill.

Make that passive return magicka for a total of 1 STAMINA MORPHS!!!. Woohoo!

Miloscpolski

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Can the debuff from Stonefist be cleansed?

llElLoboll wrote: »

I don't normally post on the forums but I feel stone giant is worth talking about. I see a lot of potential for the skill but like many other good ideas (volendrung for example) the emplementation just isn't good.

Let's start off with the pros.
1.The damage is pretty decent compared to other spammables. I compared the tooltips of dswing, crushing weapon, and noxious vs stone giant and I like where the damage is sitting.
2.Also another plus imo is the speed of the "stone" when it's thrown. From my testing on the pts that is pretty much the end of the positives.

Now for the cons.
1.The cost is quite a bit higher than other spammables. Stone giant sits at 3270 stam while dswing is 2187, crushing weapon 2226, and noxious is 2088. That is a pretty large difference when you really aren't getting very much from the skill.
2.Next we have the fact that the skill is ranged. I personally put this as a negative because it doesn't fit the playstyle of the class and therefore makes no sense. I could see the arguement though that on a purely melee class the ability to hit someone far away with your spammable would be nice.
3.Let's also look at the cc mechanic. You have to hit someone 3 times to proc a stun. No other cc in the game comes even remotely close to working this way. Fear, petrify, streak, and javelin all cc instantly, as they should imo. In pvp cc's are used in combination with good timing to burst typically. Having to hit someone three times to set up a burst combo is just not good. Especially when you compare this "cc" to others that cc immediately on cast.
4.Now let's look at the monstrous damage increase this skill gives. When you hit someone you deal an extra 45 damage to that enemy for 6 seconds and that stacks three times. So you can gain 135 extra damage at max stacks, seriously? In pvp that will be roughly 35 extra damage or less depending on resistances after battle spirit. Makes zero sense whatsoever. What if instead we go back and look at the cc mechanic that is tied to the skill and rework both of these points. What if instead of staggering after three hits or an extra 45 damage per stack that instead you gain a percentage extra damage versus that person. If instead of 45 damage you gained something like 2% increased damage with a max of 6% you could just remove the "cc" mechanic and this would also give reason for the skill to cost substantially more than other stam spammables.

Hopefully this skill gets adjusted prior to going live and becomes worth using. I really like the idea of stamdk having a class spammable but currently this just isn't it imo.

COST IS FINE!!! You return 990 stam when u using stone giant, how could you forget that? Shame

Luckylancer

This treat is thrash. OP thinks being ranged is con and he dont know about helping hand passive. It gives stam back per cast with 0 second cooldown so stone giant cost bearly same with other spammables. On top of that, this spammable give ultimate too.

New mechanic is nice. It is literaly a ranged dizzy swing without cast time IF you are a good player.

This treat is another whine treat.

Ragnarock41

Luckylancer wrote: »

This treat is thrash. OP thinks being ranged is con and he dont know about helping hand passive. It gives stam back per cast with 0 second cooldown so stone giant cost bearly same with other spammables. On top of that, this spammable give ultimate too.

New mechanic is nice. It is literaly a ranged dizzy swing without cast time IF you are a good player.

This treat is another whine treat.

And remind me what makes your post any different again?

I don't feel like you are the type of person that deserves a proper answer however I'll still give you FACTS, not an argument, just pure FACTS just to prove that yes, in case of stonefist and how it interacts with rest of stamDK kit, it being ranged is a CON.

Read , I know it is hard but try your best, I know you can do it.( I believe in you!)

So, stonefist is ''ranged'' spammable right? Just like snipe, c.frags or uh, all the other ranged stuff, except its not. It sits somewhere in the middle between melee and ranged, inhibiting bad traits of both options.

So lets list some facts about projectile spammables shared by stonefist.

1. It will be mitigated by wings.
2. It will be absorbed by shimmering shields
3. It will be reflected by any means of reflect(SnB ult or defensive posture)
4. It will be blocked , dodged or cloaked easier than melee spammables due to the nature of projectile skills.

Oh and on top of all that the stagger effect can be cleansed. HORAAH FOR RELIABILITY!

So you might be thinking, but these are pain points shared by majority of ranged abilities, and you would be right.



AAAAND now comes the most cheesy part : stamDks will be using this ability at MELEE RANGE ANYWAYS, cause its quite literally, a melee class which playstyle has been described as ''in your face''.

(In your face just like the facts huh.)

So yes, after stating facts I can finally say that in case of stonefist being ranged is most definitely a con , not a pro.

Yaay, what an achievement. What a waste of my time. I guess I could quote this for future reference. Since some of you unironically look at stonefist and think its as strong as old c.frags.

BattleAxe

Pro
it’s something new and ranged on a melee based class.

Cons
on a poison themed stam class it deals physical damage
It’s cost is ridiculous even with the earthen heart passive essentially negating any use of said passive
The animation is tremendously bad
It is ranged on a melee based class with zero mobility to effectively use the stun and close that distance in pvp before break free
The damage bonus even if it applies to all the damage it is clunky to stack it in pvp outside of xv1
Also this damage bonus lasts 5 seconds while hate to say it major vulnerability now lasts 8 seconds even if it has a cooldown you get a lot more damage in major vulnerability then you will ever get with stagger



The devs had the easiest, most requested and obvious choice for a stam morph and class identity yet they are pushing this skill thru hoping the stagger group utility will sell this skill. As it stands a stam dk would be better served using molten armaments and using heavy attacks for a spammable

hakan

can anyone tell me whats this extra 45 damage? weapon damage?

or lets say skill hits for 6570 and this adds +45 to it and making it 6615?

Xvorg

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

OG_Kaveman wrote: »

Stone giant sits at 3270 stam

you get 990 stam back every time you cast it, effectively making it 2280 on your build.

Let's increase cost of class abilities of templar and sorcerer for 5%, to compensate for class passives.
/s

It is unfair to nullify class passive for class abilities by increasing cost of stam fist. Change passive to return magicka in case stam ability was used and give it fair cost of spammable. So far this looks like a PVE ability to buff damage on 12-people raid, 7500 stamina and 3 GCD to stun (accounting helping hands) in PVP looks like waste of slot.

i mean, dks also are going to get 500 stam back every time you proc poisoned, or every time you cast an ulti, which casting this skill will contribute too, "you also generate 3 Ultimate. This effect can occur once every 6 seconds." from mountains blessing, something that you would be hard press to proc off cool down on a stamdk right?

I hate comments of people who don't understand how bad is battle roar (at least on PvP)

It is not a sustain skill. It seems a good sustain skill, but it is awfully designed.

DK by no way can spam its ultimate. The ulti is the killing punch you need to defeat the enemy. That means the resource return after you activated the ulti to kill the other guy will be pointless. You will recover those resources after the fight anyway, just crouch 10 secs, that's all.

If you are using battle riar for resource recovery then you have no idea on how you should build a DK for PvP and probably your dmg input will be quite low.

Battle Roar, on the othe hand, is an excellent passive in PVE, especially for tanks, who needs to use the ulti on a regular basis. On PvP that's not possible, so using arguments like "oh, but DK has battle roar for sustain in PvP" is wrong from the very basis. Anytime you will use the ulti, the resource recovery it provides will be wasted.

DoonerSeraph

This skills staggers more the user with this cost than the target

chrightt

I think you’re missing some good points for stone giant. Also, as someone pointed out stone giant is cheaper than tooltip due to huge stam return from passive.

First up, stone giant triggers your minor brutality, meaning it’s very easy to keep full up time for minor brutality without even trying. This is actually not that easy to do with only igneous shield on stam DK. Secondly, it is a mid ranged spammable that’s quick with animation. It means that you can effectively animation cancel it while moving towards yo ur opponent followed up by your skill. It also means that to you can catch escaping opponents better than before without a gap closer. Furthermore, the stagger mechanic works for every tick of DoT. Even if you are only running breath and claws, every tick of DoT can be buffed by 45 damage per stack of stagger. This might seem small but it adds up AND it also helps your teammate’s damage. This group play bonus is something that DKs lack since they’re really quite a selfish class in general.

caperon

chrightt wrote: »

I think you’re missing some good points for stone giant. Also, as someone pointed out stone giant is cheaper than tooltip due to huge stam return from passive.

First up, stone giant triggers your minor brutality, meaning it’s very easy to keep full up time for minor brutality without even trying. This is actually not that easy to do with only igneous shield on stam DK. Secondly, it is a mid ranged spammable that’s quick with animation. It means that you can effectively animation cancel it while moving towards yo ur opponent followed up by your skill. It also means that to you can catch escaping opponents better than before without a gap closer. Furthermore, the stagger mechanic works for every tick of DoT. Even if you are only running breath and claws, every tick of DoT can be buffed by 45 damage per stack of stagger. This might seem small but it adds up AND it also helps your teammate’s damage. This group play bonus is something that DKs lack since they’re really quite a selfish class in general.

I agree, just to add that its not only dots, its light attacks and direct damage abilities. Being able to use a skill from earthen hearth as stamdk dd is a decent buff. Buffing your teammates with dmg and minor brutality passivelly is a huge buff.

Luckylancer

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I don't feel like you are the type of person that deserves a proper answer however I'll still give you FACTS, not an argument, just pure FACTS just to prove that yes, in case of stonefist and how it interacts with rest of stamDK kit, it being ranged is a CON.

Read , I know it is hard but try your best, I know you can do it.( I believe in you!)

So, stonefist is ''ranged'' spammable right? Just like snipe, c.frags or uh, all the other ranged stuff, except its not. It sits somewhere in the middle between melee and ranged, inhibiting bad traits of both options.

So lets list some facts about projectile spammables shared by stonefist.

1. It will be mitigated by wings.
2. It will be absorbed by shimmering shields
3. It will be reflected by any means of reflect(SnB ult or defensive posture)
4. It will be blocked , dodged or cloaked easier than melee spammables due to the nature of projectile skills.

Oh and on top of all that the stagger effect can be cleansed.

So you might be thinking, but these are pain points shared by majority of ranged abilities, and you would be right.



AAAAND now comes the most cheesy part : stamDks will be using this ability at MELEE RANGE ANYWAYS, cause its quite literally, a melee class which playstyle has been described as ''in your face''.

(In your face just like the facts huh.)

So yes, after stating facts I can finally say that in case of stonefist being ranged is most definitely a con , not a pro.

Yaay, what an achievement. What a waste of my time. I guess I could quote this for future reference. Since some of you unironically look at stonefist and think its as strong as old c.frags.

I made an 8 old angry lol.

Werent people shitting on wings? How it is terrible? Since when people use wings as an ARGUNENT? Reflection is rare now.

Easier to block dodge and cloak comes with cost. Skills get harder to use with melee range. Using ranged skills at melee negate enemy's reactionary block, dodge and cloaks. And change of non-reactionary blocking, dodging and cloak is reduced significantly. But why care about this. You cant be as EDGY and COOL if you care about them. You need CAPSLOCK too.

I am using scatter shot for melee to 12 meters range most of time but ranged option is valuable. Casting poop fist againts other melee oponents is clear advantage.

Dizzy swing, the other stun+spam alternative, is cleanseable too.

People *** on poop fist just because it looks underwhelming.

Old frags were so op, no skill should be that op.
8 yo FACTHS™ < grown ups