[Play your Way] Stamina weapons for Magicka Builds

Dusk_Coven

EDIT - Revised from 9 permutations to 2

Suppose your power fantasy is magic-using nightblade using bow/dual wield. And when you assemble the powers you want you find a Magicka build works best, except the only Magicka weapons right now are Staves, so it doesn't look viable.
What if Bows could be based on Magicka for Light Attack / Heavy Attack / resource recovery? NO CHANGES to the Bow SKILL LINE, but just Magicka based so it'd work with your power fantasy?

Here is a way to use Mundane Runes as a toggle:
- if a Mundane rune is put in the Enchantment slot, the weapon Attribute flips (e.g., Stamina becomes Magicka)
- if a Mundane rune is put in the Poison slot, the weapon attribute flips (e.g., Stamina becomes Magicka)

So, if your magic-using nightblade power fantasy involved lots of magicka use and dual-wielding daggers, you could put a Mundane rune in the poison slot when you use two enchanted daggers. Light Attack and Heavy Attack are then based off your Magicka stat, and Heavy Attack restores Magicka. No changes to the Dual Wield skill line so you're sort of out of luck there, but presumably your magic-wielding power fantasy gets its appearance from other skill lines and the magic dagger look can come from the enchantments.

El_Borracho

Not trying to be a contrarian, but I have to ask...why? I'm not a lore guy at all, but this would take all classes and make everything cosmetic.

Aside from that, why would you want to run DW and have it restore magicka? I must be missing something

wolfie1.0.

I would say go for it if in exchange all class and guild skills are designed the same way.

Dusk_Coven

El_Borracho wrote: »

Not trying to be a contrarian, but I have to ask...why? I'm not a lore guy at all, but this would take all classes and make everything cosmetic.

Aside from that, why would you want to run DW and have it restore magicka? I must be missing something

Just so people can have their particular power fantasy. So people can do magicka nightblade with dual wield, for example.

But nevermind it's too complicated for the ESO crowd when they can't even read ZOS announcements to figure out an event.

Shardaxx

I don't get it. Ya mean all skills could be stam or magicka?

El_Borracho

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

El_Borracho wrote: »

Not trying to be a contrarian, but I have to ask...why? I'm not a lore guy at all, but this would take all classes and make everything cosmetic.

Aside from that, why would you want to run DW and have it restore magicka? I must be missing something

Just so people can have their particular power fantasy. So people can do magicka nightblade with dual wield, for example.

But nevermind it's too complicated for the ESO crowd when they can't even read ZOS announcements to figure out an event.

I'm actually confused, not trying to be difficult. If you are running 2 daggers and using them to cast magicka skills, that's a cosmetic issue. If you are running "magic" daggers, but using DW skills, why would you want that to restore magicka when it costs stamina to use DW?

Or are you suggesting you could use magicka instead of stamina for DW ability? Just thinking out loud, but that could make the current petsorc MS/Necro setup the king of all combos with that huge resource pool and run MS daggers instead of a lightning staff, but get the benefits of stamina's DPS. Just so many variables.

Interesting

Dusk_Coven

El_Borracho wrote: »

Or are you suggesting you could use magicka instead of stamina for DW ability? Just thinking out loud, but that could make the current petsorc MS/Necro setup the king of all combos with that huge resource pool and run MS daggers instead of a lightning staff, but get the benefits of stamina's DPS. Just so many variables.

I was just looking for a way to use Mundane Runes as a switch for whether a weapon would be treated as Stamina (and restore Stamina with Heavy Attack, and use Stamina score for damage calculation) or Magicka (and restore Magicka, etcetra).
So to try to explain it another way: Suppose you could pick up two swords for Dual Wield and choose whether you want to base their Light Attack/Heavy Attack/Block/Bash on Stamina or on Magicka. NO CHANGE to Skill Lines.
If you chose Magicka for your Dual Wield, you'd be more limited in your choice of skills from the Dual Wield skill line, but presumably your power fantasy of magic use involves your class ability, mages guild, or other skill lines more than the Dual Wield. If it did, you could sort of make up for it with Enchantments, which have a magic visual effect.

That would make it more viable to do for example a Magicka Nightblade (i.e., their power fantasy happens to involve a lot of Magicka abilities with no Stamina morphs) trying to do maybe Bow/Dual Wield instead of compromising their power fantasy and picking up Staves.
Changing your "magic using Nightblade" power fantasy envisioned with Bow/Dual Wield into Staff/Staff is a huge compromise.

Sure, the current weapon skill lines lean toward Stamina or Magicka, but this would just expand their options a bit.
However there would be 9 permutations and I really don't think the ESO population can process that. They'd be confused from the get-go.

El_Borracho

@Dusk_Coven Ahh, understood.

JamieAubrey

There used to be a time Sorcs would use DW on the backbar for the extra damage

Canned_Apples

Rift's Harbinger: Bound Weapon + Lighting Abilities

idk

Pretty sure there is a balance issue and base design issue as to why Zos keeps the weapons magika and stamina. Just like Zos has added sets that benefit hybrid builds Zos has clearly kept the foundation of combat design so that hybrid builds cannot perform as well as pure builds. This runs in the same vein.

GDOFWR420

How about conjuration magic like skyrim had, could just add new skill lines based off of magic and have conjured bow, greatsword, DW, even SB.
But definetly with there own unique abilities and not just copied from the stam skill lines.

Yuffie91

Magicka templar healer with mace/shield and heavy armor would be nice also. Don't know why but the name templar gives me this image..also more magicka weapons like spellbooks would be nice..

Dusk_Coven

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Magicka templar healer with mace/shield and heavy armor would be nice also. Don't know why but the name templar gives me this image..also more magicka weapons like spellbooks would be nice..

D&D Cleric stereotype? D&D stereotyped a lot of things.

mague

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Here is a way to use Mundane Runes as a toggle:
- if a Mundane rune is put in the Enchantment slot, the weapon Attribute flips (e.g., Stamina becomes Magicka)
- if a Mundane rune is put in the Poison slot, the weapon attribute flips (e.g., Stamina becomes Magicka)

No, because it is another restriction. I play one unarmed alt and having no glyph and no poison changes a lot.

Just add something similar to transmute stations just without transmute gems. Make it gold or one hardener or so..

StrandedMonkey

[Play your way] After next patch the Two Handed skill tree will be the only weapon tree without a guaranteed stun.

Vapirko

Similar topics have been brought up for years. The game is play as you want within the structure that exists and so long as you’re happy not pushing the limits of performance. That’s really are there is to it. It’s still a game with design choices and limitations. It’s not a free for all.

Yuffie91

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Magicka templar healer with mace/shield and heavy armor would be nice also. Don't know why but the name templar gives me this image..also more magicka weapons like spellbooks would be nice..

D&D Cleric stereotype? D&D stereotyped a lot of things.

Don't know D&D but Oblivion used pictures like that for classes. What's wrong with stereotyping if it let's you use more than one kind of weapon or armor?

J2JMC

idk wrote: »

Pretty sure there is a balance issue and base design issue as to why Zos keeps the weapons magika and stamina. Just like Zos has added sets that benefit hybrid builds Zos has clearly kept the foundation of combat design so that hybrid builds cannot perform as well as pure builds. This runs in the same vein.

These people don't care about balance, they just want to play their way. And that's not a criticism. Given the marketing tool ZOS decided to go with, I can't offer criticism when these suggestions come up. Even if I strongly disagree with the idea. As long as ZOS continues the "play as you want" mantra, even the most ridiculous suggestions are completely valid.

starkerealm

El_Borracho wrote: »

Not trying to be a contrarian, but I have to ask...why? I'm not a lore guy at all, but this would take all classes and make everything cosmetic.

Aside from that, why would you want to run DW and have it restore magicka? I must be missing something

Way back in the day, people ran DW for mag builds because you could slot two swords and increase the damage from your spells.

As for why? That depends on the class. Nightblades, Templars, DKs, and Necromancers all have magicka abilities designed around being in melee range. (Technically, all classes do, but those four have melee mag abilities, not just PBAoEs.) It would make sense for those classes to have weapon options to support this.

To be fair, I've been saying, for awhile, we could do with weapons that converted the skill lines themselves from mag to stam. Not just an enchant.

It's also not like magical melee weapons are unheard of in TES. The Sword Saints are probably the most showy example of that, but there's plenty of room for magically infused melee weapons. Hell, several skills in the game right now magically infuse our weapons with additional damage. It's not that much of a stretch to suggest there could be fully magical blades out there.

Yuffie91

Playing the way you want you could make every character different instead of all mag being light armor staff users

Dusk_Coven

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Magicka templar healer with mace/shield and heavy armor would be nice also. Don't know why but the name templar gives me this image..also more magicka weapons like spellbooks would be nice..

D&D Cleric stereotype? D&D stereotyped a lot of things.

Don't know D&D but Oblivion used pictures like that for classes. What's wrong with stereotyping if it let's you use more than one kind of weapon or armor?

Just suggesting that's where the image came from. D&D captured the imagination of a lot of people. Chances are a lot of MMO devs played it or at least know a lot about it. A lot of early computer games followed the stereotypes quite closely as well, and many still do. It took a lot of work for games to break OUT of D&D stereotypes -- and let mages use swords and armor, for example.

Yuffie91

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Magicka templar healer with mace/shield and heavy armor would be nice also. Don't know why but the name templar gives me this image..also more magicka weapons like spellbooks would be nice..

D&D Cleric stereotype? D&D stereotyped a lot of things.

Don't know D&D but Oblivion used pictures like that for classes. What's wrong with stereotyping if it let's you use more than one kind of weapon or armor?

Just suggesting that's where the image came from. D&D captured the imagination of a lot of people. Chances are a lot of MMO devs played it or at least know a lot about it. A lot of early computer games followed the stereotypes quite closely as well, and many still do. It took a lot of work for games to break OUT of D&D stereotypes -- and let mages use swords and armor, for example.

I did think of trying it once but never got around to it. Sadly I don't have any geeky friends to play it with (the boardgame right?)

Dusk_Coven

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Magicka templar healer with mace/shield and heavy armor would be nice also. Don't know why but the name templar gives me this image..also more magicka weapons like spellbooks would be nice..

D&D Cleric stereotype? D&D stereotyped a lot of things.

Don't know D&D but Oblivion used pictures like that for classes. What's wrong with stereotyping if it let's you use more than one kind of weapon or armor?

Just suggesting that's where the image came from. D&D captured the imagination of a lot of people. Chances are a lot of MMO devs played it or at least know a lot about it. A lot of early computer games followed the stereotypes quite closely as well, and many still do. It took a lot of work for games to break OUT of D&D stereotypes -- and let mages use swords and armor, for example.

I did think of trying it once but never got around to it. Sadly I don't have any geeky friends to play it with (the boardgame right?)

It expanded a lot from pen and paper tabletop RPG after Wizards of the Coast bought it out. Branched out into really popular computer RPGs by Bioware. Top titles include Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate, and Neverwinter Nights. Hugely popular and superb storytelling.
Now there's online MMO's -- Neverwinter Online and Dungeons and Dragons Online (NWO and DDO respectively) but they are very different from the tabletop game of course. DDO is very dated by looks decent in how they tried to mimic a tabletop RPG session. NWO is grind with barely any story.

Bobby_V_Rockit

So all weapon types provide the same spell and weapon damage and return both resources? Seems easier that way. Stamina staves!

Dusk_Coven

J2JMC wrote: »

These people don't care about balance, they just want to play their way. And that's not a criticism.

I think it's probably closer to the truth that people who strongly want their particular lore-friendly power fantasy don't care about being sub-optimal or best-in-slot anything or meta.
But if the game becomes too easy, they'll still complain. Power fantasy people rarely just say "I want to be godly". Their power fantasy is mainly about HOW they overcome challenges. They still want challenges.

Yuffie91

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Yuffie91 wrote: »

Magicka templar healer with mace/shield and heavy armor would be nice also. Don't know why but the name templar gives me this image..also more magicka weapons like spellbooks would be nice..

D&D Cleric stereotype? D&D stereotyped a lot of things.

Don't know D&D but Oblivion used pictures like that for classes. What's wrong with stereotyping if it let's you use more than one kind of weapon or armor?

Just suggesting that's where the image came from. D&D captured the imagination of a lot of people. Chances are a lot of MMO devs played it or at least know a lot about it. A lot of early computer games followed the stereotypes quite closely as well, and many still do. It took a lot of work for games to break OUT of D&D stereotypes -- and let mages use swords and armor, for example.

I did think of trying it once but never got around to it. Sadly I don't have any geeky friends to play it with (the boardgame right?)

It expanded a lot from pen and paper tabletop RPG after Wizards of the Coast bought it out. Branched out into really popular computer RPGs by Bioware. Top titles include Planescape: Torment, Baldur's Gate, and Neverwinter Nights. Hugely popular and superb storytelling.
Now there's online MMO's -- Neverwinter Online and Dungeons and Dragons Online (NWO and DDO respectively) but they are very different from the tabletop game of course. DDO is very dated by looks decent in how they tried to mimic a tabletop RPG session. NWO is grind with barely any story.

I did play Dark Alliance Baldurs gate when I was young! Did not know they were connected!

Ysbriel

You can already do magicka builds with melee weapons and run normal dungeons, the entire overland including the Imperial City.
There is even sets that allow for this already

Bloodthorn's Touch
(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(5 items) When you deal direct damage, you restore 660 Magicka and Stamina. This effect can occur once every 5 seconds.

Arch-Mage
(2 items) Adds 129 Magicka Recovery
(3 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(4 items) Adds 1096 Max Magicka
(5 items) When you deal damage with a fully-charged Heavy Attacks, you restore 834 Magicka.


This sets also have melee wepons, just as an example.

Darkenarlol

magical dizzy swing - you fly away (untill next patch lol)

not because you've been hit by hulking orcish steroid addict

but because... maaaaagic!!


and behold the allmighty blocade of elements... phisical

with force pulse of poison desease and phisical damage

flying from this fire uhmm...phisical? staff


immursiv, right?


and what if mah immurshn needs a storm of pink narvals

exploding into rainbow ponies that pukes butterflies

as my sorc's main weapon? can i have this as some

mundane rune slotted into psijic skill line or whut?


P.S. OP's ideas are nice for some RP but have a lot of

flaws and i won't even mention incoming balance outcry

notyuu

Alternative

Change what the charged trait does on stamina weapons [given that currently it doesn't actually do anything on them] so that when you put it on a stamina weapon it causes the light attacks to scale off of max magicka and spell damage, your heavy attacks to restore magicka and your block costs magicka

as for the why, simple

1. mdk and magplar are melee based magicka classes so it just makes more sense to have this option than use a stick
2. it would allow for the creation and application of magicka tanks
3. not everybody likes using bitchsticks

Dusk_Coven

notyuu wrote: »

Change what the charged trait does on stamina weapons [given that currently it doesn't actually do anything on them]

Theoretically could the Charged trait not improve your chances of applying a status effect from an Enchantment on your weapon, Stamina or otherwise?
I chose the Enchantment/Poison slots for the toggles because those are mutually exclusive. When you are using a Poison, the Enchantment is suppressed.