Nerf after this patch calculation

Delparis

If you're looking how much dots get nerfed with patch here a simple calculation

% last nerf = 1 - (1 - % first nerf) * (1 + % last buff)

Example
Entropy %nerf vs live is 40% = 1- (1-0.5)*(1+0.2)

Millz

Ummmm

ChunkyCat

Uhhhh

Delparis

thats too much nerf to dots as the sweet spot is imo 30% nerf vs live (same as having dots with major protection)

Banana

My mdk is getting happier

cheifsoap

Hmm o_0

Millz

Actually i think the math is correct.

Edited because my brain hurts from my midterm and someone else should check

Kolzki

And it got a 220% buff in scale breaker so a total buff of 32% from when it was useless. I don’t think I’m any wiser on whether it’s good.

Kolzki

If anyone has the time to work this out compared to pre dot meta damage for class dots and things like poison injection then I have awesomes and insightfuls ready to go.

Millz

Edited:

I dont think you need to subtract from 1

Millz

Kolzki wrote: »

If anyone has the time to work this out compared to pre dot meta damage for class dots and things like poison injection then I have awesomes and insightfuls ready to go.

Since poison injection was untouched in 5.0 we will call the inital hit ($x) and the dot (x) and the combined (X). Apply this to the key.

X = 5.0
Y = 5.1
Z = 5.2.0
W = 5.2.3

5.0

$x + x = X

5.1

(x + (x * .78) = Y

5.2.0

y - (y * .63) = Z

5.2.3

z + (z * .33) = W

SO

[(X - W) / ((X + W) / 2)] * 100 = Percent difference from 5.2.3 to 5.0

/*
* 5.0 initial hit nerf
*
* $x - ($x * .17)
*/

So plug in some numbers if you want to test compared to original (I used 7000 for the dot damage) and you get a difference of 13~ from 5.2.3 to 5.0 not including the initial hit nerf which i included after the 5.2.3 just make sure when you do it to work it out in order from top to bottom and save your answers for each

edited because I shouldn't have use !(variable) because its not factorial switched it to $

BaiterOfZergs

Millz wrote: »

Kolzki wrote: »

If anyone has the time to work this out compared to pre dot meta damage for class dots and things like poison injection then I have awesomes and insightfuls ready to go.

Since poison injection was untouched in 5.0 we will call the inital hit ($x) and the dot (x) and the combined (X). Apply this to the key.

X = 5.0
Y = 5.1
Z = 5.2.0
W = 5.2.3

5.0

$x + x = X

5.1

(x + (x * .78) = Y

5.2.0

y - (y * .63) = Z

5.2.3

z + (z * .33) = W

SO

[(X - W) / ((X + W) / 2)] * 100 = Percent difference from 5.2.3 to 5.0

/*
* 5.0 initial hit nerf
*
* $x - ($x * .17)
*/

So plug in some numbers if you want to test compared to original (I used 7000 for the dot damage) and you get a difference of 13~ from 5.2.3 to 5.0 not including the initial hit nerf which i included after the 5.2.3 just make sure when you do it to work it out in order from top to bottom and save your answers for each

edited because I shouldn't have use !(variable) because its not factorial switched it to $

Okay, now explain it to me like I’m stupid.

Delparis

v5.2.0 Poison Arrow: Decreased the damage per tick of this ability and its morphs by approximately 63%.
v5.2.3 Poison Arrow: Increased the Damage over Time portion of this ability and its morphs by 33%.

So Poison Arrow nerf vs live is 50% = 1 - (1 - 0.63) * (1 + 0.33)

ThePainGuy

ZOS in the last week PTS notes said that the new change to dots this week will be around 33% weaker than live. But their math is off a little. First week PTS decreased dots by 50-60%. Increasing those values up 20% does not make them now 33% weaker than live, but closer to 37-38% weaker.

Example (100 * 0.5 = 50) week 1 PTS
( 50 * 1.2 = 60) week 4 PTS

Overall a 40% reduction from what is on live. I guess its a good step in the right direction.

Just got off PTS. My entropy on live hits around 30,000 tooltip. My PTS build with same exact setup hits around 17900 (18000) --> 40% weaker than on live.

Tannus15

According to patch notes soul trap and antropy didn't get the full 33% buff that other single target dots did. they only get 20%, the same as aoe dots.

I wish people would stop looking at entropy tooltip to work out what the % reduction vs live is.

ThePainGuy

Per Zos in PTS 5.2.0

Adjusted the standards from Damage over Time abilities to no longer deal approximately 2.5x the damage of a traditional “spammable” attack, such as Force Shock or Lava Whip, and now deal approximately 1.25x the damage over their duration. Specific changes will be listed in the skill line section.
Area of Effect Damage over Time abilities will now once again mirror the damage of their single target counterparts, instead of dealing approximately 33% less damage. To ensure they do not always beat out their single target counterpart, they will now cost approximately 66% more resources per second to maintain than their single target counterparts, up from 30%. Their standard durations have increased to 10 seconds from 8 seconds as well.

Per Zos in PTS 5.2.2

In a future patch during this PTS cycle, we will be increasing the total damage of any Damage over Time abilities that were adjusted in PTS v5.2.0 by approximately 20% to reduce situations where many of the abilities felt difficult to maintain outside of nanosecond perfect rotation. This means there will be an overall reduction in damage from DoT abilities of approximately 33% compared to what is currently on the Live megaservers.

@Tannus15 per Zos aoe DOTs are supposed to mirror their single target counterparts. Its hard to make aoe DOT comparisons between this PTS and scalebreaker because aoe DOTS underwent changes to mirror single target DOTs and then single target DOTs were nerfed 50% average. The easiest comparisons to do now are single target DOTs between scalebreaker and dragonhold PTS 5.2.3 since its a straight apples to apples comparison per ZOS. The dots in this PTS should be 33% (on average) lower that what is on scalebreaker. I just did a quick comparison of entropy because that's all I had time for. However, there are other forum posts where people are reporting poison injection might be 38% lower than live server. Someone else reported searing strike having 39% nerf compared to scalebreaker. Just putting info out there to spark others in the community to do testing to see if the DOTs were adjusting appropriately or did ZOS made a mistake. If we remember ZOS made similar mistake with changes to vigor in the scalebreaker PTS (during the last week ZOS over nerfed vigor tooltips and they were subsequently changed for scalebreaker live DLC).

devilsTear

E = mc2?

Austinseph1

devilsTear wrote: »

E = mc2?

“E=MC^2/Nerfsorc” the formula for true balance

Tannus15

@ThePainGuy Regardless what they said in 5.2.0 about single target and aoe dots having the same damage, in 5.2.3 they have buffed all single target dots by 33% and ground dots by 20% with the exception of soul trap and entropy which also only had a 20% buff.

While i'm pointing that out, the costs for all ground aoe's except for spear shards and winters revenge are all still insane at 4950 cost which means all ground target aoe's are useless with the exception of wall of elements / volley for the backbar enchant and vMA weapons enchants.

AFAIK mystic orb hasn't been changed, and as such remains the best AOE dot.

I wouldn't run entropy or soul trap on a mag build for raw dps only. I missed that the inital nerf of soultrap & entropy was only 50% compared to all other single target dots of 63%, hence they have been buffed by only 20% this patch...

Basically they did an audit to make all skills the same, and then nerfed them all by the same amount and then reduced that nerf by varying amounts on a skill by skill level.

ThePainGuy

@Tannus15

Thanks for the clarification. Was just wondering if other dots were being affected similarly to entropy. Hopefully these changes will be a net positive for the community in both PVE and PVP. I guess we will see.

ThePainGuy

I just got off PTS again. I looked at poison injection which had a 63% nerf in week 1 of PTS and now a 33% increase in this weeks PTS.

My scalebreaker tooltip is around 20,000 and my tooltip on dragonhold PTS is now 9950 (lets say 10,000). That's still a 50% nerf compared to live. My tooltip in week 1 of dragonhold PTS was around 7400 and with the 33% buff this week its close to 10k tooltip. Anyone else getting tooltips that are similar to mine. I doubled checked my gear and stats.

Lets see (theoretical formula)
week 1 PTS (100 * 0.37 = 37) --> 63% nerf
week 4 PTS ( 37* 1.33 = 49.21) around 50%

Scalebreaker tooltip 20000
week 1 PTS 7400
week 4 PTS 9950 around 50% of live tooltip

Nemesis7884

could all be avoided in the future if they were limiting any changes to 20-30% at a time

StrandedMonkey

Nemesis7884 wrote: »

could all be avoided in the future if they were limiting any changes to 20-30% at a time

this could have been avoided if they just reverted scalebreaker after it came out

Wayshuba

ThePainGuy wrote: »

I just got off PTS again. I looked at poison injection which had a 63% nerf in week 1 of PTS and now a 33% increase in this weeks PTS.

My scalebreaker tooltip is around 20,000 and my tooltip on dragonhold PTS is now 9950 (lets say 10,000). That's still a 50% nerf compared to live. My tooltip in week 1 of dragonhold PTS was around 7400 and with the 33% buff this week its close to 10k tooltip. Anyone else getting tooltips that are similar to mine. I doubled checked my gear and stats.

Lets see (theoretical formula)
week 1 PTS (100 * 0.37 = 37) --> 63% nerf
week 4 PTS ( 37* 1.33 = 49.21) around 50%

Scalebreaker tooltip 20000
week 1 PTS 7400
week 4 PTS 9950 around 50% of live tooltip

TBH, this was pointed out on the forums when the 20% buff over 5.1 was announced, but not yet implemented. ZoS own statement was contradicting itself then (a 20% buff to a 50% nerf is NOT a net effect of a 33% reduction).

So people were confused what they meant and now we see - they were literal in just increasing what was 5.0/5.1 by 20%.

And at the end of the day you are STILL getting major nerfs with big cost increases across the board.

Basically putting everyone right back where you were with the 5.0 patch...... meaning nothing has changed and the uproar from the 5.0 Patch Notes hasn't been addressed in the slightest. And we wonder why people are leaving the game over this. You are still going to ping-pong your build from three months ago just like it was ping-ponged the last patch.