Lingering Health Effect

Artorias24

Hello,

So this patch you decided to nuke lingering health. I agree, lingering were strong. Too strong. But why nerf the duration instead of the healing effect?

With Elswyer we got Dragonblood allowing us to combine Lingering and Restore stam. Expensive potions but really effective.

I ask you to nerf the healing by 50% and restore the old duration. Making the duration only 15 seconds is basicly useless and will only limit us to 3 potions left being viable...

Tri stat potions
Crit Potions
New Resist potion (wich give 5280 resist as a unique buff for the full potion duration).

Why nerf lingering and give a new potion with a strong effect for the full duration. I really dont get the idea behind it...

I want different potions to be viable in PvP. You want some healing over time? lingering. You want more resist? Armor buff potion. You need all three Ressource? Tri stat. You want more crit? Crit potion....

More diversity and small! Adjustments no nuking! Reduce the healing. Not the duration....

Aerenel

You have my attention. How does one make this armor buffing resist potion

Artorias24

Aerenel wrote: »

You have my attention. How does one make this armor buffing resist potion

bugloss, mountainflower mudcrap

universal_wrath

Artorias24 wrote: »

Aerenel wrote: »

You have my attention. How does one make this armor buffing resist potion

bugloss, mountainflower mudcrap

I'm starting to get some stupid ideas of how to use this pot. This armor buff too mcu imo, it should be somewhere around 3k. You can basically get 11k resistance just by using this potion and armor buff.

Bashev

Artorias24 wrote: »

Aerenel wrote: »

You have my attention. How does one make this armor buffing resist potion

bugloss, mountainflower mudcrap

This will be nerfed next patch latest.

Barbaran

You forgot that ZoS's motto for the game.
"Nerf how we want"

Kadoin

Artorias24 wrote: »

Making the duration only 15 seconds is basicly useless and will only limit us to 3 potions left being viable...

Because combined with other HoTs, sets that provide healing, and other effects lingering is too strong when it has that long of a duration. It's basically a guaranteed HoT with 100% uptime and plays a role in most of the seemingly unkillable builds out there.

Armor and crit buff do not matter much because all that does is save you a skill slot or two, which in reality does not improve much. Tri-pots can be arguably OP, but at the same time you would need a build that benefited from it in the first place (large amounts of each pool, which only few builds can even reach and all require sacrificing damage).

Lastly, the effect of lingering in reality meant that you had to heal less, so it also functioned and functions on live as a sustain tool. In fact with the right build over 5 seconds lingering not only heals more than tripot does on live, lingering also save magicka and stamina because it begins to compete with skills. Do not get me started on how strong that is on a mag templar with living dark, robes of the hist, ritual, radiating keeping major mending, minor mending, major vit, and minor vit up stacking crit & crit damage. Slot BRP DW & Resto and you don't even need defense anymore its that powerful.

Oops, running my mouth again. ZOS I was joking.

Emma_Overload

universal_wrath wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Aerenel wrote: »

You have my attention. How does one make this armor buffing resist potion

bugloss, mountainflower mudcrap

I'm starting to get some stupid ideas of how to use this pot. This armor buff too mcu imo, it should be somewhere around 3k. You can basically get 11k resistance just by using this potion and armor buff.

It's not that great, considering the fact that Mighty Chudan exists. I've tried building around this potion, and the math never works out. You give up too much, if you are already using spell pots or tri-pots.

Kadoin

Hmm just saw it wasn't the major buff one...yeah maybe ZOS has a few screws loose

Chilly-McFreeze

Emma_Overload wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Aerenel wrote: »

You have my attention. How does one make this armor buffing resist potion

bugloss, mountainflower mudcrap

I'm starting to get some stupid ideas of how to use this pot. This armor buff too mcu imo, it should be somewhere around 3k. You can basically get 11k resistance just by using this potion and armor buff.

It's not that great, considering the fact that Mighty Chudan exists. I've tried building around this potion, and the math never works out. You give up too much, if you are already using spell pots or tri-pots.

The potion buff should stack with major resolve/ward from chudan since it's unnamed. But like Bashev said, it will be nerfed soon. I guess down to 15s and halfed in strength since it gives both armors.

Artorias24

Kadoin wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Making the duration only 15 seconds is basicly useless and will only limit us to 3 potions left being viable...

Because combined with other HoTs, sets that provide healing, and other effects lingering is too strong when it has that long of a duration. It's basically a guaranteed HoT with 100% uptime and plays a role in most of the seemingly unkillable builds out there.

Armor and crit buff do not matter much because all that does is save you a skill slot or two, which in reality does not improve much. Tri-pots can be arguably OP, but at the same time you would need a build that benefited from it in the first place (large amounts of each pool, which only few builds can even reach and all require sacrificing damage).

Lastly, the effect of lingering in reality meant that you had to heal less, so it also functioned and functions on live as a sustain tool. In fact with the right build over 5 seconds lingering not only heals more than tripot does on live, lingering also save magicka and stamina because it begins to compete with skills. Do not get me started on how strong that is on a mag templar with living dark, robes of the hist, ritual, radiating keeping major mending, minor mending, major vit, and minor vit up stacking crit & crit damage. Slot BRP DW & Resto and you don't even need defense anymore its that powerful.

Oops, running my mouth again. ZOS I was joking.

I get your point. But the duration isnt the problem. On my stamdk with major mending i was getting a 600 hot. About this. Nerf it by 50% and you get a 300hps. That not gonna be OP or help you tank zergs, it will just support your healing.

And ofc crit potion do more then just save a skill slot. Crit potion will increase my Overall damage and healing by simply having more of them crit. And armor potion will reduce all incoming damage (Note: this armor potion is a unique buff. Not a major buff. So it will stack with your major ward).

Less damage taken = less healing required = more sustain to come to your argument that lingering give sustain due to "free" healing.

And your set examples are pure defensive/healing Sets. Ofc they will buff lingering to an crazy amount of healing. But you will only and exclusivly only kill potatoes with that setup.

@Kadoin

Emma_Overload

Wow, I think they must have changed it this patch. Because when I made a bunch of these potions a while back, it definitely gave you Major Ward and Resolve. I'm gonna go take a look real quick right now...

Kadoin

Artorias24 wrote: »

But you will only and exclusivly only kill potatoes with that setup.
@Kadoin

Artorias24

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Wow, I think they must have changed it this patch. Because when I made a bunch of these potions a while back, it definitely gave you Major Ward and Resolve. I'm gonna go take a look real quick right now...

Potions that increase your Physical or Spell Resistance no longer grant Major Resolve or Ward, but instead grant a unique value of Resistances.

Artorias24

Kadoin wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

But you will only and exclusivly only kill potatoes with that setup.
@Kadoin

So? Anything constructive to add or just making fun of me that english isnt my native language?

Emma_Overload

OK, OK. So it's different on PTS. This is what it looks like on live:

Emma_Overload

I still don't understand why you guys think they would nerf it when they are just now buffing it...

Oh wait, that's exactly what ZOS would do

Solariken

It's a nice thought OP, but I personally feel like there shouldn't be any potion effects that offer 100% uptime.

I'd like to see a rework of potion buffing, something like 30 second cool down and 50% uptime on all buffs. I feel like that would be more balanced than what we have.

Artorias24

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I still don't understand why you guys think they would nerf it when they are just now buffing it...

Oh wait, that's exactly what ZOS would do

Its called securing your Job.

universal_wrath

Emma_Overload wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Aerenel wrote: »

You have my attention. How does one make this armor buffing resist potion

bugloss, mountainflower mudcrap

I'm starting to get some stupid ideas of how to use this pot. This armor buff too mcu imo, it should be somewhere around 3k. You can basically get 11k resistance just by using this potion and armor buff.

It's not that great, considering the fact that Mighty Chudan exists. I've tried building around this potion, and the math never works out. You give up too much, if you are already using spell pots or tri-pots.

Wait what? Might chadun is giving same buff as potion? Are you sure? I'm already using chudan on some of my pvp toons and this is a great news.

Artorias24

Solariken wrote: »

It's a nice thought OP, but I personally feel like there shouldn't be any potion effects that offer 100% uptime.

I'd like to see a rework of potion buffing, something like 30 second cool down and 50% uptime on all buffs. I feel like that would be more balanced than what we have.

And why? It will just kill diversity even more.

Some players dislike slotting a skill for major sorcery for example. So they build around spell power potion. Some like to slot it and use a different potion. Having a lot of option on how to build your character is always good and should be viable in a lot of ways. Potion are a nice Addition to give more diversity and should not get a nerf in duration.

universal_wrath

universal_wrath wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Aerenel wrote: »

You have my attention. How does one make this armor buffing resist potion

bugloss, mountainflower mudcrap

I'm starting to get some stupid ideas of how to use this pot. This armor buff too mcu imo, it should be somewhere around 3k. You can basically get 11k resistance just by using this potion and armor buff.

It's not that great, considering the fact that Mighty Chudan exists. I've tried building around this potion, and the math never works out. You give up too much, if you are already using spell pots or tri-pots.

Wait what? Might chadun is giving same buff as potion? Are you sure? I'm already using chudan on some of my pvp toons and this is a great news.

Anyone knows if mighty chaudan stacks with potion and armor buff? 17k resistance extra, no more boom, baby.

Artorias24

universal_wrath wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Aerenel wrote: »

You have my attention. How does one make this armor buffing resist potion

bugloss, mountainflower mudcrap

I'm starting to get some stupid ideas of how to use this pot. This armor buff too mcu imo, it should be somewhere around 3k. You can basically get 11k resistance just by using this potion and armor buff.

It's not that great, considering the fact that Mighty Chudan exists. I've tried building around this potion, and the math never works out. You give up too much, if you are already using spell pots or tri-pots.

Wait what? Might chadun is giving same buff as potion? Are you sure? I'm already using chudan on some of my pvp toons and this is a great news.

Anyone knows if mighty chaudan stacks with potion and armor buff? 17k resistance extra, no more boom, baby.

It wil stack next Patch. Potion will increase resist without being a major buff. Its like brass on live atm. Stacks with major buffs.

But currently on live it wont stack cause it gives major resolve/ward like chudan.

Kadoin

Artorias24 wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

But you will only and exclusivly only kill potatoes with that setup.
@Kadoin

So? Anything constructive to add or just making fun of me that english isnt my native language?

No, I thought it was funny because of this thread where I said someone using BRP DW & medium fortified brass was a defensive build:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6366989#Comment_6366989

Also, I only listed one defensive set Robes of the Hist. That set isn't really a defensive set since it still provides offensive stats, only the 5-piece is. And yes, it is in fact possible to build a light armor build on mag templar on live that does a lot of damage and doesn't need defense using what I said. I can't go into more detail because I can sense the nerf gun, except at the wrong things ...

Not that I would ever use such a cheese build besides for research purposes into another, better and fair build.

Artorias24

Kadoin wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

Kadoin wrote: »

Artorias24 wrote: »

But you will only and exclusivly only kill potatoes with that setup.
@Kadoin

So? Anything constructive to add or just making fun of me that english isnt my native language?

No, I thought it was funny because of this thread where I said someone using BRP DW & medium fortified brass was a defensive build:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6366989#Comment_6366989

Also, I only listed one defensive set Robes of the Hist. That set isn't really a defensive set since it still provides offensive stats, only the 5-piece is. And yes, it is in fact possible to build a light armor build on mag templar on live that does a lot of damage and doesn't need defense using what I said. I can't go into more detail because I can sense the nerf gun, except at the wrong things ...

Not that I would ever use such a cheese build besides for research purposes into another, better and fair build.

Okay then. Still doesnt change the fact that lingering doesnt need a nerf in the duration. Only in the strenght of the healing Part. A 50% nerf is enough to put it from OP to average.

Lingering is a trade off you make. You loose an important other buff. Be it crit, sorcery/brutality or your secondary Ressource. I just dont like the nuke on so many aspects of the game. Make them less strong but dont make them useless.....

Why i get the feeling that players could balance the game in a more healthier way then developers....