Executionner vs killer's blade

universal_wrath

sproattt wrote: »

Good luck getting ANYONE within Killers Blade execute.... Errrryone running Templar healing to full in one wammy; your best to run ExeKushn as it's 400% at 50 n below. Plus KB is dodgeable, procs Mino defile now which was a nerf.. from Maj.

Night blade is terrible in PvP. Survivability wise not damagewise. As dot stacking, performance issues, glitchy as stuns that you can't break free from, pots not going off, undo no working. The list goes on... Plus we lost fracture, min berserk, min maim + snare from fear, cast times..... Just rippperiono.

Mostly wrong. It is very easy to get anyone to killer blade range unless you play against perm block. Excautioner scale up to 400% to anyone below 50%, which mean you only get the 400% if people are below maybe 10%HP or so. Killer blade is much faster animation than excautioner making it easier to kill people even without animation cancel. Both excautioner and killer blade are dodgable, thus having killer blade is big advantage against people who dodge roll a lot as well. Passives for sloting killer blade are dmg oriented as you get 10% more crit dmg and 5% more crit chance, while excationer is sustain oriented as if you kill someone you get 30% stamina recovery for 15 secs.

Nightblade is not terriable in pvp, susvivabilty wise. They have have cloak that is 100% negate dots if not broken out of it. I personally never had performence issue or unbreakable stuns, unusable pottion on nightblade, everything is smooth. Undo is bugged on all classes and not exculsive to Nightblades. Nightblades never lost fracture, I personaly was and still using mark before fracture was taken from surprise attacks. Nightblades only lost minor berserk but gained minor vanuribility which I think equate to the lost, minor maim but gained 10% unnamed mitigation, and snare from fear. Cast time is not an issue if you stun people before.

MartiniDaniels

universal_wrath wrote: »

sproattt wrote: »

Good luck getting ANYONE within Killers Blade execute.... Errrryone running Templar healing to full in one wammy; your best to run ExeKushn as it's 400% at 50 n below. Plus KB is dodgeable, procs Mino defile now which was a nerf.. from Maj.

Night blade is terrible in PvP. Survivability wise not damagewise. As dot stacking, performance issues, glitchy as stuns that you can't break free from, pots not going off, undo no working. The list goes on... Plus we lost fracture, min berserk, min maim + snare from fear, cast times..... Just rippperiono.

Mostly wrong. It is very easy to get anyone to killer blade range unless you play against perm block. Excautioner scale up to 400% to anyone below 50%, which mean you only get the 400% if people are below maybe 10%HP or so. Killer blade is much faster animation than excautioner making it easier to kill people even without animation cancel. Both excautioner and killer blade are dodgable, thus having killer blade is big advantage against people who dodge roll a lot as well. Passives for sloting killer blade are dmg oriented as you get 10% more crit dmg and 5% more crit chance, while excationer is sustain oriented as if you kill someone you get 30% stamina recovery for 15 secs.

Nightblade is not terriable in pvp, susvivabilty wise. They have have cloak that is 100% negate dots if not broken out of it. I personally never had performence issue or unbreakable stuns, unusable pottion on nightblade, everything is smooth. Undo is bugged on all classes and not exculsive to Nightblades. Nightblades never lost fracture, I personaly was and still using mark before fracture was taken from surprise attacks. Nightblades only lost minor berserk but gained minor vanuribility which I think equate to the lost, minor maim but gained 10% unnamed mitigation, and snare from fear. Cast time is not an issue if you stun people before.

Man, where did you get that numbers. Slotting KB will give you only 2% extra crit chance, which is like barely noticeable in PVP, especially in no-CP. About mark... yeah, use it plz, always inform me before attacking not to mention i'm curious where you find bar space to slot all that.

Szende

Actually you dont need to use executioner for 30% stamina regen buff. Enough if you have Rally on your bar. But as said, depends on the playstyle. I see KB as a better ability but a bit more difficult to use than Executioner. NB still have maim if using shadow image, and Major Fracture really not something what i miss so much with a sharpened maul.

Royalthought

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

sproattt wrote: »

Good luck getting ANYONE within Killers Blade execute.... Errrryone running Templar healing to full in one wammy; your best to run ExeKushn as it's 400% at 50 n below. Plus KB is dodgeable, procs Mino defile now which was a nerf.. from Maj.

Night blade is terrible in PvP. Survivability wise not damagewise. As dot stacking, performance issues, glitchy as stuns that you can't break free from, pots not going off, undo no working. The list goes on... Plus we lost fracture, min berserk, min maim + snare from fear, cast times..... Just rippperiono.

Mostly wrong. It is very easy to get anyone to killer blade range unless you play against perm block. Excautioner scale up to 400% to anyone below 50%, which mean you only get the 400% if people are below maybe 10%HP or so. Killer blade is much faster animation than excautioner making it easier to kill people even without animation cancel. Both excautioner and killer blade are dodgable, thus having killer blade is big advantage against people who dodge roll a lot as well. Passives for sloting killer blade are dmg oriented as you get 10% more crit dmg and 5% more crit chance, while excationer is sustain oriented as if you kill someone you get 30% stamina recovery for 15 secs.

Nightblade is not terriable in pvp, susvivabilty wise. They have have cloak that is 100% negate dots if not broken out of it. I personally never had performence issue or unbreakable stuns, unusable pottion on nightblade, everything is smooth. Undo is bugged on all classes and not exculsive to Nightblades. Nightblades never lost fracture, I personaly was and still using mark before fracture was taken from surprise attacks. Nightblades only lost minor berserk but gained minor vanuribility which I think equate to the lost, minor maim but gained 10% unnamed mitigation, and snare from fear. Cast time is not an issue if you stun people before.

Man, where did you get that numbers. Slotting KB will give you only 2% extra crit chance, which is like barely noticeable in PVP, especially in no-CP. About mark... yeah, use it plz, always inform me before attacking not to mention i'm curious where you find bar space to slot all that.

The removal of Major fracture from suprise attack was a huge nerf.

Mark is trash tbh. Like you said, it litterally screams to the enemy, "a nightblade is about to attack you, start defending". lol

And if you mark a 2nd target, you give a free purge and remove the effect from the first. Changes like these is what made NB so clunky.

universal_wrath

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

sproattt wrote: »

Good luck getting ANYONE within Killers Blade execute.... Errrryone running Templar healing to full in one wammy; your best to run ExeKushn as it's 400% at 50 n below. Plus KB is dodgeable, procs Mino defile now which was a nerf.. from Maj.

Night blade is terrible in PvP. Survivability wise not damagewise. As dot stacking, performance issues, glitchy as stuns that you can't break free from, pots not going off, undo no working. The list goes on... Plus we lost fracture, min berserk, min maim + snare from fear, cast times..... Just rippperiono.

Mostly wrong. It is very easy to get anyone to killer blade range unless you play against perm block. Excautioner scale up to 400% to anyone below 50%, which mean you only get the 400% if people are below maybe 10%HP or so. Killer blade is much faster animation than excautioner making it easier to kill people even without animation cancel. Both excautioner and killer blade are dodgable, thus having killer blade is big advantage against people who dodge roll a lot as well. Passives for sloting killer blade are dmg oriented as you get 10% more crit dmg and 5% more crit chance, while excationer is sustain oriented as if you kill someone you get 30% stamina recovery for 15 secs.

Nightblade is not terriable in pvp, susvivabilty wise. They have have cloak that is 100% negate dots if not broken out of it. I personally never had performence issue or unbreakable stuns, unusable pottion on nightblade, everything is smooth. Undo is bugged on all classes and not exculsive to Nightblades. Nightblades never lost fracture, I personaly was and still using mark before fracture was taken from surprise attacks. Nightblades only lost minor berserk but gained minor vanuribility which I think equate to the lost, minor maim but gained 10% unnamed mitigation, and snare from fear. Cast time is not an issue if you stun people before.

Man, where did you get that numbers. Slotting KB will give you only 2% extra crit chance, which is like barely noticeable in PVP, especially in no-CP. About mark... yeah, use it plz, always inform me before attacking not to mention i'm curious where you find bar space to slot all that.

I thought minor savagory gives 5% crit chance, I apologize for the misinformation. As for mark, great way to catch stealthy nightblades. I don't k ow how you play or set up your bars, but foe me... i have all nessecary skills to survived and skill people with mark on my bar, though I rarely use it even though I have it. I mainly use it on tanks and nightblade cloakers aside feom that, I kill most people without major fracture, minor main, minor berserk or minor vunalerability. I mainly do BGs, but I can still hit people with 11k crit killer blade with only major brutality buff.

Front bar: surpirse attack, killer blade, rally, fear, relentless and incap. Back bar, poison injection, cloak, vigor, leeching strike, piercing mark, and soul siphon.

I'm I missing something? Sometimes I swap killer blade for ambush when I play with premade, other than that, this is my typical set up.

MartiniDaniels

universal_wrath wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

sproattt wrote: »

Good luck getting ANYONE within Killers Blade execute.... Errrryone running Templar healing to full in one wammy; your best to run ExeKushn as it's 400% at 50 n below. Plus KB is dodgeable, procs Mino defile now which was a nerf.. from Maj.

Night blade is terrible in PvP. Survivability wise not damagewise. As dot stacking, performance issues, glitchy as stuns that you can't break free from, pots not going off, undo no working. The list goes on... Plus we lost fracture, min berserk, min maim + snare from fear, cast times..... Just rippperiono.

Mostly wrong. It is very easy to get anyone to killer blade range unless you play against perm block. Excautioner scale up to 400% to anyone below 50%, which mean you only get the 400% if people are below maybe 10%HP or so. Killer blade is much faster animation than excautioner making it easier to kill people even without animation cancel. Both excautioner and killer blade are dodgable, thus having killer blade is big advantage against people who dodge roll a lot as well. Passives for sloting killer blade are dmg oriented as you get 10% more crit dmg and 5% more crit chance, while excationer is sustain oriented as if you kill someone you get 30% stamina recovery for 15 secs.

Nightblade is not terriable in pvp, susvivabilty wise. They have have cloak that is 100% negate dots if not broken out of it. I personally never had performence issue or unbreakable stuns, unusable pottion on nightblade, everything is smooth. Undo is bugged on all classes and not exculsive to Nightblades. Nightblades never lost fracture, I personaly was and still using mark before fracture was taken from surprise attacks. Nightblades only lost minor berserk but gained minor vanuribility which I think equate to the lost, minor maim but gained 10% unnamed mitigation, and snare from fear. Cast time is not an issue if you stun people before.

Man, where did you get that numbers. Slotting KB will give you only 2% extra crit chance, which is like barely noticeable in PVP, especially in no-CP. About mark... yeah, use it plz, always inform me before attacking not to mention i'm curious where you find bar space to slot all that.

I thought minor savagory gives 5% crit chance, I apologize for the misinformation. As for mark, great way to catch stealthy nightblades. I don't k ow how you play or set up your bars, but foe me... i have all nessecary skills to survived and skill people with mark on my bar, though I rarely use it even though I have it. I mainly use it on tanks and nightblade cloakers aside feom that, I kill most people without major fracture, minor main, minor berserk or minor vunalerability. I mainly do BGs, but I can still hit people with 11k crit killer blade with only major brutality buff.

Front bar: surpirse attack, killer blade, rally, fear, relentless and incap. Back bar, poison injection, cloak, vigor, leeching strike, piercing mark, and soul siphon.

I'm I missing something? Sometimes I swap killer blade for ambush when I play with premade, other than that, this is my typical set up.

You are receiving 2% for each assasination ability slotted. Minor savagery grants +5% weapon crit, yes, but you will proc it anyway, without KB, when you open your burst from cloak. Crit damage you already receive from slotted incap/grim focus.

Bars - you are probably talking about pre-U22 builds. Since U22 nightblades are almost obligatory to have camouflaged hunter to proc minor berserk. And you probably want to use shade too, for minor maim and as escape/lure tool.

Ok, you say that you can kill people without those buffs.. but if you will use those buffs you will kill even more people! buffs are always more powerful then raw stats, especially in no-CP if you are talking about BG. For example minor berserk grants plain +8%. If you effective weapon power (maxstam+WD+crit) is like 7-8k, 8% from those is like 7500*0.08=600 offensive WD. Minor maim reduces incoming damage in 1v1 for 15% on top of all resistances in most effective possible way. So if each 660 resistance reduce damage for 1%, minor maim grants 15*660=9900 equivalent resistances which can't be penetrated only purged. Major fracture according to same calculations is 5280/660 = +8% to damage from penetration.

universal_wrath

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

sproattt wrote: »

Good luck getting ANYONE within Killers Blade execute.... Errrryone running Templar healing to full in one wammy; your best to run ExeKushn as it's 400% at 50 n below. Plus KB is dodgeable, procs Mino defile now which was a nerf.. from Maj.

Night blade is terrible in PvP. Survivability wise not damagewise. As dot stacking, performance issues, glitchy as stuns that you can't break free from, pots not going off, undo no working. The list goes on... Plus we lost fracture, min berserk, min maim + snare from fear, cast times..... Just rippperiono.

Mostly wrong. It is very easy to get anyone to killer blade range unless you play against perm block. Excautioner scale up to 400% to anyone below 50%, which mean you only get the 400% if people are below maybe 10%HP or so. Killer blade is much faster animation than excautioner making it easier to kill people even without animation cancel. Both excautioner and killer blade are dodgable, thus having killer blade is big advantage against people who dodge roll a lot as well. Passives for sloting killer blade are dmg oriented as you get 10% more crit dmg and 5% more crit chance, while excationer is sustain oriented as if you kill someone you get 30% stamina recovery for 15 secs.

Nightblade is not terriable in pvp, susvivabilty wise. They have have cloak that is 100% negate dots if not broken out of it. I personally never had performence issue or unbreakable stuns, unusable pottion on nightblade, everything is smooth. Undo is bugged on all classes and not exculsive to Nightblades. Nightblades never lost fracture, I personaly was and still using mark before fracture was taken from surprise attacks. Nightblades only lost minor berserk but gained minor vanuribility which I think equate to the lost, minor maim but gained 10% unnamed mitigation, and snare from fear. Cast time is not an issue if you stun people before.

Man, where did you get that numbers. Slotting KB will give you only 2% extra crit chance, which is like barely noticeable in PVP, especially in no-CP. About mark... yeah, use it plz, always inform me before attacking not to mention i'm curious where you find bar space to slot all that.

I thought minor savagory gives 5% crit chance, I apologize for the misinformation. As for mark, great way to catch stealthy nightblades. I don't k ow how you play or set up your bars, but foe me... i have all nessecary skills to survived and skill people with mark on my bar, though I rarely use it even though I have it. I mainly use it on tanks and nightblade cloakers aside feom that, I kill most people without major fracture, minor main, minor berserk or minor vunalerability. I mainly do BGs, but I can still hit people with 11k crit killer blade with only major brutality buff.

Front bar: surpirse attack, killer blade, rally, fear, relentless and incap. Back bar, poison injection, cloak, vigor, leeching strike, piercing mark, and soul siphon.

I'm I missing something? Sometimes I swap killer blade for ambush when I play with premade, other than that, this is my typical set up.

You are receiving 2% for each assasination ability slotted. Minor savagery grants +5% weapon crit, yes, but you will proc it anyway, without KB, when you open your burst from cloak. Crit damage you already receive from slotted incap/grim focus.

Bars - you are probably talking about pre-U22 builds. Since U22 nightblades are almost obligatory to have camouflaged hunter to proc minor berserk. And you probably want to use shade too, for minor maim and as escape/lure tool.

Ok, you say that you can kill people without those buffs.. but if you will use those buffs you will kill even more people! buffs are always more powerful then raw stats, especially in no-CP if you are talking about BG. For example minor berserk grants plain +8%. If you effective weapon power (maxstam+WD+crit) is like 7-8k, 8% from those is like 7500*0.08=600 offensive WD. Minor maim reduces incoming damage in 1v1 for 15% on top of all resistances in most effective possible way. So if each 660 resistance reduce damage for 1%, minor maim grants 15*660=9900 equivalent resistances which can't be penetrated only purged. Major fracture according to same calculations is 5280/660 = +8% to damage from penetration.

What you say is true, if I use those buffs, I will more people, but you can't ask for everytying in 1 class, look at how stam warden fair in pvp since it has most of the buffs in the games, super tanky and op in pvp. As for camoflagued hunter, I would rather use ambush over camuflauged hunter, since it's gap closer and does not give the buff when you strictly attack from flank.

kalunte

i am pleased to see that we slowly get to the points i wanted to land:

1- the lower cost of executionner is unfair.
2- from 40% to 25% executionner is equal/better than a regular spamable in terms of dmg, but cost way less.
3- kb is better only from 25 to 12% in terms of dmg. still cost more
4- Asylum weapon does not only buff the executionner skill: it boost your ultimate regen which, by a not so weird extend, means that it boost your entire build (unless you play without any ult). while KB grants half of its passives only once you've won.
5- with the loss of major fracture on surprise attack + point 1 and point 2, you barely can use executionner alone instead of SA+KB, one skill slot freed which is noticeable.
6- the bullshiting about one being faster than the other in terms of animation is essentially false. dmg occurs before the animation in both cases. if it wasnt, none would be anim-cancel-lable*
7- KB brings a lot more passives if you want to slot only one assassination skill in your bar for both minor savagery and 10% crit dmg which can help in bar flexibility.

All in all, i really do love how both works and often change from one to the other depending on my mood and setups, just like i do with onslaught/soul harvest (i play in no cp and dont use spriggan..) or crit rush/ambush.

Still, our dear Devs are bashing that generic skills shouldnt make shadow over class skills, and in this very case, regarding the points i've listed before, Executionner can put quite a decent shadow on KB.
if both skills are meant to achieve the same purpose, something should be done on KB to make it "the best" choice 80% of the time.
i just dont feel like it's the case right now.