Class Ultimate Improvement Suggestions

BlissfulDeluge

Author's Note:
The Nightblade ultimates Death Stroke, Soul Shred and their associated morphs have had a cast time for a while, now, and I think it's safe to say that the goal of making these abilities feel well and truly balanced has been accomplished. Indeed, now whenever someone tries to cast Death Stroke on another player, it is really easy to dodge and waste, and whenever someone tries to heal themselves with Soul Shred, they can be bursted down before they have a chance to heal themselves.

However, there are other class ultimates in the game that are still overperforming, and in need of drastic changes. To make these abilities feel completely useless diverse and balanced, I propose the following changes. Enjoy!

Wardens:
Wardens have two ultimates that are overperforming currently. The Feral Guardian is basically a free DPS boost, and so to cull its strength, I believe that activating the bear's ultimate should desummon it, making players have to go through the 2.5 second cast time all over again. Sleet Storm is also incredibly strong, and should have a one-second cast time to use. After all, creating a giant blizzard takes time and effort as seen in the Morrowind reveal trailer, and the ultimate should reflect on this.

Templars:
The Radial Sweep ultimate of Templars isn't only similar to the Nightblade's Death Stroke, it is cheaper. This is an outrage, and it should be given the .4 second cast time that Death Stroke was given. Rite of Passage is also an incredibly strong heal, vastly better than Soul Shred, and should have a one-second cast time. For a player to pray to the Gods themselves for healing and immediately getting an answer to their prayers is ludicrous, so this change is justified.

Sorcerers:
The Sorcerers are known as one of the easiest classes to play, and therefore the most popular. They have access to a wide range of abilities, but their ultimates stand out as incredibly strong. The following changes are called for because of this. The Negate ultimate has the power to remove ANY placed enemy effect, and should therefore get a three-second cast time. It should also mark the player casting it, so that they can be quickly identified and interrupted by other players in PvP. The Storm Atronach is also incredibly powerful in PvE, and should therefore have 2.5 second cast time, comparable to the Warden's Feral Guardian ultimate.

Dragonknights:
Dragonknight is the tankiest class in the game, but opting for high defense should have some drawbacks. For example, off the top of my head there are two ultimates of the Dragonknight that could really use a rebalance. First of them is the Magma Armor. Magma Armor is an incredibly overpowered ultimate, which makes players completely impervious to assault. To use such an ultimate should therefore have some room for error. The best way to give players a chance to counter this ultimate, is to give it a three-second interruptable cast time. This way, players will be able to see what the player casting the ultimate is up to, and have a chance at stopping them. The Standard ability is also very overpowered, and should have a two-second cast time.

Necromancers:
The Necromancer class should be tweaked to give players the immersive feeling of what it's like to call back the dead or call upon a giant monster to kill things. Frozen Colossus, Reanimate and their morphs should therefore all have an interruptable three-second cast time.

A better option than making these changes:
Make Soul Shred, Death Stroke and their morphs instant cast again. K thnx.

mague

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

A better option than making these changes:
Make Soul Shred, Death Stroke and their morphs instant cast again. K thnx.

It is .4 and .5 casting time. What was the dev comment on those small casting times ?
I am not sarcastic, i dont know the class and was wondering why they added such a short casting timer ?

Mayrael

Hah... Awesome! But yeah it sucks being NB and as the only class having 2 out of 3 class ultimates cast time. I guess standardisation doesn't apply to all of us.

LeHarrt91

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Author's Note:

Wardens:
Wardens have two ultimates that are overperforming currently. The Feral Guardian is basically a free DPS boost, and so to cull its strength, I believe that activating the bear's ultimate should desummon it, making players have to go through the 2.5 second cast time all over again. Sleet Storm is also incredibly strong, and should have a one-second cast time to use. After all, creating a giant blizzard takes time and effort as seen in the Morrowind reveal trailer, and the ultimate should reflect on this.

The fact that the Bear needs to be double slotted is enough. It can be killed, snared, stunned. Kill the bear and they have to summon it wasting 2.5s, i personally dont like the summoned pet.
Sleetstorm is strong but i dont think overpowered, it doesnt deal damage instantly after activating it, the character waves their hands around briefly, but its also a DoT.

But

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Author's Note:
A better option than making these changes:
Make Soul Shred, Death Stroke and their morphs instant cast again. K thnx.

i agree lol and i kinda preferred the stun over silence as well.

BlissfulDeluge

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Author's Note:

Wardens:
Wardens have two ultimates that are overperforming currently. The Feral Guardian is basically a free DPS boost, and so to cull its strength, I believe that activating the bear's ultimate should desummon it, making players have to go through the 2.5 second cast time all over again. Sleet Storm is also incredibly strong, and should have a one-second cast time to use. After all, creating a giant blizzard takes time and effort as seen in the Morrowind reveal trailer, and the ultimate should reflect on this.

The fact that the Bear needs to be double slotted is enough. It can be killed, snared, stunned. Kill the bear and they have to summon it wasting 2.5s, i personally dont like the summoned pet.
Sleetstorm is strong but i dont think overpowered, it doesnt deal damage instantly after activating it, the character waves their hands around briefly, but its also a DoT.

But

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Author's Note:
A better option than making these changes:
Make Soul Shred, Death Stroke and their morphs instant cast again. K thnx.

i agree lol and i kinda preferred the stun over silence as well.

The joke is that I'm not serious about these changes, but I'm trying to make a point about the current state of NB ultimates. :P

mague wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

A better option than making these changes:
Make Soul Shred, Death Stroke and their morphs instant cast again. K thnx.

It is .4 and .5 casting time. What was the dev comment on those small casting times ?
I am not sarcastic, i dont know the class and was wondering why they added such a short casting timer ?

The problem is a cast time, no matter how big or small, 1), makes it difficult to weave the skill in a standard rotation, and 2), makes it easier to counter and predict the ability. NBs used to be a bursty class in PvP, which fitted their "assassin" niche perfectly.

Nowadays in PvP, an NB has to stun a player and cast Ambush (or cast Ambush and then stun if you use fear), cast Death Stroke with a .4 second timer and then hope to burst down the player over the next 1-2 seconds. The problem here is that the chain of events takes so long that the average player has plenty of time to break free and dodgeroll, which puts them out of harm's way. It flies in the face of the NB's supposed role as a bursty class, damage-wise. The Soul Shred's cast time is also problematic, since the NB lacks any other real burst heal. If you need .5 seconds to burst heal when you're at 20% health, you're gonna run out before your Soul Shred has a chance to go off, which has happened to me way more times than I can count. Basically, it is the equivalent of giving Breath of Life a .5 second cast time. That'd be real fun, wouldn't it?

LeHarrt91

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Author's Note:

Wardens:
Wardens have two ultimates that are overperforming currently. The Feral Guardian is basically a free DPS boost, and so to cull its strength, I believe that activating the bear's ultimate should desummon it, making players have to go through the 2.5 second cast time all over again. Sleet Storm is also incredibly strong, and should have a one-second cast time to use. After all, creating a giant blizzard takes time and effort as seen in the Morrowind reveal trailer, and the ultimate should reflect on this.

The fact that the Bear needs to be double slotted is enough. It can be killed, snared, stunned. Kill the bear and they have to summon it wasting 2.5s, i personally dont like the summoned pet.
Sleetstorm is strong but i dont think overpowered, it doesnt deal damage instantly after activating it, the character waves their hands around briefly, but its also a DoT.

But

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Author's Note:
A better option than making these changes:
Make Soul Shred, Death Stroke and their morphs instant cast again. K thnx.

i agree lol and i kinda preferred the stun over silence as well.

The joke is that I'm not serious about these changes, but I'm trying to make a point about the current state of NB ultimates. :P

mague wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

A better option than making these changes:
Make Soul Shred, Death Stroke and their morphs instant cast again. K thnx.

It is .4 and .5 casting time. What was the dev comment on those small casting times ?
I am not sarcastic, i dont know the class and was wondering why they added such a short casting timer ?

oh i got that but i wouldnt put it past them to make the changes XD

Wolfpaw

Ok funnyboy don't give zos any Warden ideas...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uDrh5pujB9I

BlissfulDeluge

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Ok funnyboy don't give zos any Warden ideas...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uDrh5pujB9I

No the game needs to be balanced one way or the other.

Help me champion the cause of removing NB cast times, and I'll stop ranting about the strength of Wardens. :^)

Royalthought

No cast time should be on a single target ult.
It's been said but there are ults that are undodgable, stun, AoE and hit from 28 meters away.

Incap lost its stun, major defile, melee range, single target, dodgable and if a 2nd opponent is present it's buffs don't carry over dramatically reducing its value vs groups.

Let this sink in, ZoS could revert all the nightblade nerfs to back when it was in its prime and it would still not be the strongest. Refactor all the nerfs and that's the status rn. So bad that post aren't even asking for buffs like other classes. Just to play without handicaps. Lol

Rahar

What's the point of satirical threads like this? The only thing of actual substance you have here is the last sentence, and that's only asking the devs to do something without providing any actual reasoning. If you wanted to make a point, you'd be much better served by skipping the irony next time.

For what it's worth, I agree with you, though. Cast times should go... Or at least be even across the board, instead of slamming one skill with it and leaving the others untouched.

chrightt

Rahar wrote: »

What's the point of satirical threads like this? The only thing of actual substance you have here is the last sentence, and that's only asking the devs to do something without providing any actual reasoning. If you wanted to make a point, you'd be much better served by skipping the irony next time.

For what it's worth, I agree with you, though. Cast times should go... Or at least be even across the board, instead of slamming one skill with it and leaving the others untouched.

It’s more like a plz buff nightblade back to OPness kind of thread. It’s pretty typical on the forums especially for those that really focus on one class. You know which one this guy focuses on lmao. As far as I’m concerned NBs still strong if you know how to play them, just gotta abuse cloak more ez as pie. Until stealth isn’t so cancerous I probably would say NBs are fine as they are. My NB just abuses cloak all day. Stealth detect?! Lmao 6m radius stealth detect that’s almost as costly as cloak LOL don’t even find *** half the time. Gotta use stealth pot to lose a buff? Lmao, NBs just have to pick their fight instead of hitting like a truck while still being the most elusive class in game.

BlissfulDeluge

chrightt wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

What's the point of satirical threads like this? The only thing of actual substance you have here is the last sentence, and that's only asking the devs to do something without providing any actual reasoning. If you wanted to make a point, you'd be much better served by skipping the irony next time.

For what it's worth, I agree with you, though. Cast times should go... Or at least be even across the board, instead of slamming one skill with it and leaving the others untouched.

It’s more like a plz buff nightblade back to OPness kind of thread. It’s pretty typical on the forums especially for those that really focus on one class. You know which one this guy focuses on lmao. As far as I’m concerned NBs still strong if you know how to play them, just gotta abuse cloak more ez as pie. Until stealth isn’t so cancerous I probably would say NBs are fine as they are. My NB just abuses cloak all day. Stealth detect?! Lmao 6m radius stealth detect that’s almost as costly as cloak LOL don’t even find *** half the time. Gotta use stealth pot to lose a buff? Lmao, NBs just have to pick their fight instead of hitting like a truck while still being the most elusive class in game.

Sounds like a "plz keep NBs buffed so I can squish them ez"

NBs have no burst heals and rely on stealth to get away. Power of the Light for Templars will break stealth, detect pots break stealth, AoE break stealth, just learn to use those instead of relying on making life harder for those that choose to play NBs, lel.

This is an ultimate balance thread, though. If Soul Siphon should have a cast time of .5 seconds that makes casting it moot, then Rite of Passage should have a cast time, too. As should all the other skills. As a matter of fact, comparatively, the suggestions I made for other classes' ultimate are balanced against the NB ultimates in their current form.

NBs were relatively easy to deal with before the barrage of nerfs, in their current form they're incompetent. Someone that can't handle an NB in its current form just needs to L2P.

BlissfulDeluge

Rahar wrote: »

What's the point of satirical threads like this? The only thing of actual substance you have here is the last sentence, and that's only asking the devs to do something without providing any actual reasoning. If you wanted to make a point, you'd be much better served by skipping the irony next time.

For what it's worth, I agree with you, though. Cast times should go... Or at least be even across the board, instead of slamming one skill with it and leaving the others untouched.

If you got the point, then why would I have to make it even clearer? But since you ask for actual substance, sure, why not.

Death Stroke - 0.4 second cast time makes it difficult to weave, and easily avoided (as most players in PvP with something between their ears will dodge roll after breaking free from a stun). The 20% damage increase is nice, but has to be on point, if the ability even hits the target, cus of the point made prior. Soul Harvest has good ultimate generation, but not really, because it only counts enemies that you got the killing blow on, which makes the ult gen unreliable. Incapacitating Strike has Reave, which restores resources on light attacks, and Silences the enemy four three seconds IF cast with 120 ultimate (30 ultimate shy of 150 ultimate).

Comparatively, abilities like Radial Sweep do AoE damage, are cheaper, and have more damage or damage mitigation, depending on which morph you pick. Feral Guardian is a pet that gives a fire-and-forget DPS boost while active, and mauls the enemies for high damage at 75 ultimate (+100% damage if the target is below 25% health).

Consuming Darkness - A fairly decent ability, if only because it hasn't been nerfed to sheit yet. Choice between extra mitigation and AoE damage depending on the morph. Comparable to Nova and Dragonknight Standard. No complaints here, tbh.

Soul Shred - This ability has two versions. Soul Siphon functions as a heal, and Soul Tether functions as a damage ability. Things get a little complicated here, because I think Soul Tether is fine having a cast time. It's an area-stun with the player at its centre, and that's a make-or-break ability that has both potential for damage, and potential for self-healing.

That said, I think Soul Siphon should not have a cast time. This is because it is strictly a healing ability that, while it gives Major Vitality, it does not provide the mitigation that Rite of Passage does, which as I am sure you know, is instant-cast. To put it simply, I think it is unfair that NBs have an AoE burst heal ultimate with a cast time that isn't guaranteed to even save just yourself, while Templars can boost themselves back up to max health with the click of a button, and stand there taking all the punishment in the world without their health moving and inch closer to what it was before.

---

My point overall, if I cannot stress it any more clearly, is that I think it is unfair for the Nightblade to be the only class with a ton of cast times on their abilities, and that I think other classes should get the same treatment. Nightblades were unique, once. They had access to abilities like Incapacitating Strike that could be cast to quickly burst a lone target down before running away and picking another battle. They had access to fear, which was the only ability that could stun a player through block.

Then everyone else complained and now Mass Hysteria is a *** ability that requires getting up close and personal to make use of it, while Dragonknights can just hurl a fossilize halfway across the battlefield to stun you from afar.

Nightblades are garbage, and I'm honestly sick of it.

MyPrist

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Author's Note:
The Nightblade ultimates Death Stroke, Soul Shred and their associated morphs have had a cast time for a while, now, and I think it's safe to say that the goal of making these abilities feel well and truly balanced has been accomplished. Indeed, now whenever someone tries to cast Death Stroke on another player, it is really easy to dodge and waste, and whenever someone tries to heal themselves with Soul Shred, they can be bursted down before they have a chance to heal themselves.

However, there are other class ultimates in the game that are still overperforming, and in need of drastic changes. To make these abilities feel completely useless diverse and balanced, I propose the following changes. Enjoy!

Wardens:
Wardens have two ultimates that are overperforming currently. The Feral Guardian is basically a free DPS boost, and so to cull its strength, I believe that activating the bear's ultimate should desummon it, making players have to go through the 2.5 second cast time all over again. Sleet Storm is also incredibly strong, and should have a one-second cast time to use. After all, creating a giant blizzard takes time and effort as seen in the Morrowind reveal trailer, and the ultimate should reflect on this.

Templars:
The Radial Sweep ultimate of Templars isn't only similar to the Nightblade's Death Stroke, it is cheaper. This is an outrage, and it should be given the .4 second cast time that Death Stroke was given. Rite of Passage is also an incredibly strong heal, vastly better than Soul Shred, and should have a one-second cast time. For a player to pray to the Gods themselves for healing and immediately getting an answer to their prayers is ludicrous, so this change is justified.

Sorcerers:
The Sorcerers are known as one of the easiest classes to play, and therefore the most popular. They have access to a wide range of abilities, but their ultimates stand out as incredibly strong. The following changes are called for because of this. The Negate ultimate has the power to remove ANY placed enemy effect, and should therefore get a three-second cast time. It should also mark the player casting it, so that they can be quickly identified and interrupted by other players in PvP. The Storm Atronach is also incredibly powerful in PvE, and should therefore have 2.5 second cast time, comparable to the Warden's Feral Guardian ultimate.

Dragonknights:
Dragonknight is the tankiest class in the game, but opting for high defense should have some drawbacks. For example, off the top of my head there are two ultimates of the Dragonknight that could really use a rebalance. First of them is the Magma Armor. Magma Armor is an incredibly overpowered ultimate, which makes players completely impervious to assault. To use such an ultimate should therefore have some room for error. The best way to give players a chance to counter this ultimate, is to give it a three-second interruptable cast time. This way, players will be able to see what the player casting the ultimate is up to, and have a chance at stopping them. The Standard ability is also very overpowered, and should have a two-second cast time.

Necromancers:
The Necromancer class should be tweaked to give players the immersive feeling of what it's like to call back the dead or call upon a giant monster to kill things. Frozen Colossus, Reanimate and their morphs should therefore all have an interruptable three-second cast time.

A better option than making these changes:
Make Soul Shred, Death Stroke and their morphs instant cast again. K thnx.

Stop give ZOS bad ideas already, we already had class rebalance, set rebalance, race rebalance, dunguans rebalance, bug rebalance.

Each time some thing change, the game do not become better.

And i can say that you are not right in a lot of thingth you write, becouse you are not exp enough, to say about it.

Do you play each class you talk about? Are you good in all of them ?

Only if you are you can say some thing about balance. If you are not , if you even is good in 1 or think that you are, but you are not - stop talk about balance.

It is like paper, rock, scisors and etc.

Stop judje paper like you do it with rock.

I read your post and i see that you do not understand what you are talking about.

When I see post like this one i am heavy bleading !!!

Nerftheforums

Let's not forget about dbos and 2h ult k thx bb

jcm2606

Moar cast times! You get a cast time, you get a cast time! And you get a cast time! Everybody gets a cast time!

sweatapodimas

Cast times made nb ults a joke. Oh yeah DB is a rarity these days except in small AOE spamming groups.

If that was their goal, or to make combat clunkier then they absolutely succeeded.

chrightt

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

chrightt wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

What's the point of satirical threads like this? The only thing of actual substance you have here is the last sentence, and that's only asking the devs to do something without providing any actual reasoning. If you wanted to make a point, you'd be much better served by skipping the irony next time.

For what it's worth, I agree with you, though. Cast times should go... Or at least be even across the board, instead of slamming one skill with it and leaving the others untouched.

It’s more like a plz buff nightblade back to OPness kind of thread. It’s pretty typical on the forums especially for those that really focus on one class. You know which one this guy focuses on lmao. As far as I’m concerned NBs still strong if you know how to play them, just gotta abuse cloak more ez as pie. Until stealth isn’t so cancerous I probably would say NBs are fine as they are. My NB just abuses cloak all day. Stealth detect?! Lmao 6m radius stealth detect that’s almost as costly as cloak LOL don’t even find *** half the time. Gotta use stealth pot to lose a buff? Lmao, NBs just have to pick their fight instead of hitting like a truck while still being the most elusive class in game.

Sounds like a "plz keep NBs buffed so I can squish them ez"

NBs have no burst heals and rely on stealth to get away. Power of the Light for Templars will break stealth, detect pots break stealth, AoE break stealth, just learn to use those instead of relying on making life harder for those that choose to play NBs, lel.

This is an ultimate balance thread, though. If Soul Siphon should have a cast time of .5 seconds that makes casting it moot, then Rite of Passage should have a cast time, too. As should all the other skills. As a matter of fact, comparatively, the suggestions I made for other classes' ultimate are balanced against the NB ultimates in their current form.

NBs were relatively easy to deal with before the barrage of nerfs, in their current form they're incompetent. Someone that can't handle an NB in its current form just needs to L2P.

So basically the world needs to L2P? I don’t seem to die at all when racking in all the billion kills. Hey why don’t the rest of you guys l2p a NB and not die? How are you sucking so badly when you have cloak? Did you get stealth detected? What?

Kadoozy

MyPrist wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Author's Note:
The Nightblade ultimates Death Stroke, Soul Shred and their associated morphs have had a cast time for a while, now, and I think it's safe to say that the goal of making these abilities feel well and truly balanced has been accomplished. Indeed, now whenever someone tries to cast Death Stroke on another player, it is really easy to dodge and waste, and whenever someone tries to heal themselves with Soul Shred, they can be bursted down before they have a chance to heal themselves.

However, there are other class ultimates in the game that are still overperforming, and in need of drastic changes. To make these abilities feel completely useless diverse and balanced, I propose the following changes. Enjoy!

Wardens:
Wardens have two ultimates that are overperforming currently. The Feral Guardian is basically a free DPS boost, and so to cull its strength, I believe that activating the bear's ultimate should desummon it, making players have to go through the 2.5 second cast time all over again. Sleet Storm is also incredibly strong, and should have a one-second cast time to use. After all, creating a giant blizzard takes time and effort as seen in the Morrowind reveal trailer, and the ultimate should reflect on this.

Templars:
The Radial Sweep ultimate of Templars isn't only similar to the Nightblade's Death Stroke, it is cheaper. This is an outrage, and it should be given the .4 second cast time that Death Stroke was given. Rite of Passage is also an incredibly strong heal, vastly better than Soul Shred, and should have a one-second cast time. For a player to pray to the Gods themselves for healing and immediately getting an answer to their prayers is ludicrous, so this change is justified.

Sorcerers:
The Sorcerers are known as one of the easiest classes to play, and therefore the most popular. They have access to a wide range of abilities, but their ultimates stand out as incredibly strong. The following changes are called for because of this. The Negate ultimate has the power to remove ANY placed enemy effect, and should therefore get a three-second cast time. It should also mark the player casting it, so that they can be quickly identified and interrupted by other players in PvP. The Storm Atronach is also incredibly powerful in PvE, and should therefore have 2.5 second cast time, comparable to the Warden's Feral Guardian ultimate.

Dragonknights:
Dragonknight is the tankiest class in the game, but opting for high defense should have some drawbacks. For example, off the top of my head there are two ultimates of the Dragonknight that could really use a rebalance. First of them is the Magma Armor. Magma Armor is an incredibly overpowered ultimate, which makes players completely impervious to assault. To use such an ultimate should therefore have some room for error. The best way to give players a chance to counter this ultimate, is to give it a three-second interruptable cast time. This way, players will be able to see what the player casting the ultimate is up to, and have a chance at stopping them. The Standard ability is also very overpowered, and should have a two-second cast time.

Necromancers:
The Necromancer class should be tweaked to give players the immersive feeling of what it's like to call back the dead or call upon a giant monster to kill things. Frozen Colossus, Reanimate and their morphs should therefore all have an interruptable three-second cast time.

A better option than making these changes:
Make Soul Shred, Death Stroke and their morphs instant cast again. K thnx.

Stop give ZOS bad ideas already, we already had class rebalance, set rebalance, race rebalance, dunguans rebalance, bug rebalance.

Each time some thing change, the game do not become better.

And i can say that you are not right in a lot of thingth you write, becouse you are not exp enough, to say about it.

Do you play each class you talk about? Are you good in all of them ?

Only if you are you can say some thing about balance. If you are not , if you even is good in 1 or think that you are, but you are not - stop talk about balance.

It is like paper, rock, scisors and etc.

Stop judje paper like you do it with rock.

I read your post and i see that you do not understand what you are talking about.

When I see post like this one i am heavy bleading !!!

I am assuming you aren't a fluent English speaker and didn't understand his intent. He was being sarcastic. Making a joke. His last sentence should have given it away though.

MyPrist

Kadoozy wrote: »

MyPrist wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Author's Note:
The Nightblade ultimates Death Stroke, Soul Shred and their associated morphs have had a cast time for a while, now, and I think it's safe to say that the goal of making these abilities feel well and truly balanced has been accomplished. Indeed, now whenever someone tries to cast Death Stroke on another player, it is really easy to dodge and waste, and whenever someone tries to heal themselves with Soul Shred, they can be bursted down before they have a chance to heal themselves.

However, there are other class ultimates in the game that are still overperforming, and in need of drastic changes. To make these abilities feel completely useless diverse and balanced, I propose the following changes. Enjoy!

Wardens:
Wardens have two ultimates that are overperforming currently. The Feral Guardian is basically a free DPS boost, and so to cull its strength, I believe that activating the bear's ultimate should desummon it, making players have to go through the 2.5 second cast time all over again. Sleet Storm is also incredibly strong, and should have a one-second cast time to use. After all, creating a giant blizzard takes time and effort as seen in the Morrowind reveal trailer, and the ultimate should reflect on this.

Templars:
The Radial Sweep ultimate of Templars isn't only similar to the Nightblade's Death Stroke, it is cheaper. This is an outrage, and it should be given the .4 second cast time that Death Stroke was given. Rite of Passage is also an incredibly strong heal, vastly better than Soul Shred, and should have a one-second cast time. For a player to pray to the Gods themselves for healing and immediately getting an answer to their prayers is ludicrous, so this change is justified.

Sorcerers:
The Sorcerers are known as one of the easiest classes to play, and therefore the most popular. They have access to a wide range of abilities, but their ultimates stand out as incredibly strong. The following changes are called for because of this. The Negate ultimate has the power to remove ANY placed enemy effect, and should therefore get a three-second cast time. It should also mark the player casting it, so that they can be quickly identified and interrupted by other players in PvP. The Storm Atronach is also incredibly powerful in PvE, and should therefore have 2.5 second cast time, comparable to the Warden's Feral Guardian ultimate.

Dragonknights:
Dragonknight is the tankiest class in the game, but opting for high defense should have some drawbacks. For example, off the top of my head there are two ultimates of the Dragonknight that could really use a rebalance. First of them is the Magma Armor. Magma Armor is an incredibly overpowered ultimate, which makes players completely impervious to assault. To use such an ultimate should therefore have some room for error. The best way to give players a chance to counter this ultimate, is to give it a three-second interruptable cast time. This way, players will be able to see what the player casting the ultimate is up to, and have a chance at stopping them. The Standard ability is also very overpowered, and should have a two-second cast time.

Necromancers:
The Necromancer class should be tweaked to give players the immersive feeling of what it's like to call back the dead or call upon a giant monster to kill things. Frozen Colossus, Reanimate and their morphs should therefore all have an interruptable three-second cast time.

A better option than making these changes:
Make Soul Shred, Death Stroke and their morphs instant cast again. K thnx.

Stop give ZOS bad ideas already, we already had class rebalance, set rebalance, race rebalance, dunguans rebalance, bug rebalance.

Each time some thing change, the game do not become better.

And i can say that you are not right in a lot of thingth you write, becouse you are not exp enough, to say about it.

Do you play each class you talk about? Are you good in all of them ?

Only if you are you can say some thing about balance. If you are not , if you even is good in 1 or think that you are, but you are not - stop talk about balance.

It is like paper, rock, scisors and etc.

Stop judje paper like you do it with rock.

I read your post and i see that you do not understand what you are talking about.

When I see post like this one i am heavy bleading !!!

I am assuming you aren't a fluent English speaker and didn't understand his intent. He was being sarcastic. Making a joke. His last sentence should have given it away though.

I am already ready to believe, that some one can write some thing with no joke:

"It is not tolerant, that good players play better than bad players, add bugs and lags please"

And that zos do it, becouse good players are not "tolerant"

My skills are broken and do not work 4 month+.

I do not even believe in jokes already.

I even can not get information will they fix it or not !!!

Will moltan armaments will be fixed or not????

It does not work correct 4 + month already - with no answer. Any answer !!!

Rahar

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

What's the point of satirical threads like this? The only thing of actual substance you have here is the last sentence, and that's only asking the devs to do something without providing any actual reasoning. If you wanted to make a point, you'd be much better served by skipping the irony next time.

For what it's worth, I agree with you, though. Cast times should go... Or at least be even across the board, instead of slamming one skill with it and leaving the others untouched.

If you got the point, then why would I have to make it even clearer? But since you ask for actual substance, sure, why not.

Death Stroke - 0.4 second cast time makes it difficult to weave, and easily avoided (as most players in PvP with something between their ears will dodge roll after breaking free from a stun). The 20% damage increase is nice, but has to be on point, if the ability even hits the target, cus of the point made prior. Soul Harvest has good ultimate generation, but not really, because it only counts enemies that you got the killing blow on, which makes the ult gen unreliable. Incapacitating Strike has Reave, which restores resources on light attacks, and Silences the enemy four three seconds IF cast with 120 ultimate (30 ultimate shy of 150 ultimate).

Comparatively, abilities like Radial Sweep do AoE damage, are cheaper, and have more damage or damage mitigation, depending on which morph you pick. Feral Guardian is a pet that gives a fire-and-forget DPS boost while active, and mauls the enemies for high damage at 75 ultimate (+100% damage if the target is below 25% health).

Consuming Darkness - A fairly decent ability, if only because it hasn't been nerfed to sheit yet. Choice between extra mitigation and AoE damage depending on the morph. Comparable to Nova and Dragonknight Standard. No complaints here, tbh.

Soul Shred - This ability has two versions. Soul Siphon functions as a heal, and Soul Tether functions as a damage ability. Things get a little complicated here, because I think Soul Tether is fine having a cast time. It's an area-stun with the player at its centre, and that's a make-or-break ability that has both potential for damage, and potential for self-healing.

That said, I think Soul Siphon should not have a cast time. This is because it is strictly a healing ability that, while it gives Major Vitality, it does not provide the mitigation that Rite of Passage does, which as I am sure you know, is instant-cast. To put it simply, I think it is unfair that NBs have an AoE burst heal ultimate with a cast time that isn't guaranteed to even save just yourself, while Templars can boost themselves back up to max health with the click of a button, and stand there taking all the punishment in the world without their health moving and inch closer to what it was before.

---

My point overall, if I cannot stress it any more clearly, is that I think it is unfair for the Nightblade to be the only class with a ton of cast times on their abilities, and that I think other classes should get the same treatment. Nightblades were unique, once. They had access to abilities like Incapacitating Strike that could be cast to quickly burst a lone target down before running away and picking another battle. They had access to fear, which was the only ability that could stun a player through block.

Then everyone else complained and now Mass Hysteria is a *** ability that requires getting up close and personal to make use of it, while Dragonknights can just hurl a fossilize halfway across the battlefield to stun you from afar.

Nightblades are garbage, and I'm honestly sick of it.

Completely agree on all points. The cast times were added to avoid weaving and canceling, and it does as advertised. Without commenting on whether animation canceling should be taken out of the game or not (as it is a somewhat controversial topic), the question becomes something like, "Why did Nightblades get hit so hard with this exclusively?".

Point is, every single-target ultimate like Death Stroke should have a large delay (~400ms, as you said), or none of them should have it. Same with AoE ultimates. If animation canceling has to go, we need to treat similar skills similarly. Otherwise we'll inevitably end up with classes and ultimates that always massively outperform others due to some arbitrary hair-splitting cast time placement.

Also note that when I say "cast time", I mean time that has to pass before any effects take place from using the skill. This would mean, of course, that Rite of Passage (to use another example you've also used) would gain a small delay before the first heal went out, but still be channeled. There will be no special snowflakes in this bleak cast time world.

Drdeath20

Should nightblades be able to kill at will?

BlissfulDeluge

MyPrist wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Author's Note:
The Nightblade ultimates Death Stroke, Soul Shred and their associated morphs have had a cast time for a while, now, and I think it's safe to say that the goal of making these abilities feel well and truly balanced has been accomplished. Indeed, now whenever someone tries to cast Death Stroke on another player, it is really easy to dodge and waste, and whenever someone tries to heal themselves with Soul Shred, they can be bursted down before they have a chance to heal themselves.

However, there are other class ultimates in the game that are still overperforming, and in need of drastic changes. To make these abilities feel completely useless diverse and balanced, I propose the following changes. Enjoy!

Wardens:
Wardens have two ultimates that are overperforming currently. The Feral Guardian is basically a free DPS boost, and so to cull its strength, I believe that activating the bear's ultimate should desummon it, making players have to go through the 2.5 second cast time all over again. Sleet Storm is also incredibly strong, and should have a one-second cast time to use. After all, creating a giant blizzard takes time and effort as seen in the Morrowind reveal trailer, and the ultimate should reflect on this.

Templars:
The Radial Sweep ultimate of Templars isn't only similar to the Nightblade's Death Stroke, it is cheaper. This is an outrage, and it should be given the .4 second cast time that Death Stroke was given. Rite of Passage is also an incredibly strong heal, vastly better than Soul Shred, and should have a one-second cast time. For a player to pray to the Gods themselves for healing and immediately getting an answer to their prayers is ludicrous, so this change is justified.

Sorcerers:
The Sorcerers are known as one of the easiest classes to play, and therefore the most popular. They have access to a wide range of abilities, but their ultimates stand out as incredibly strong. The following changes are called for because of this. The Negate ultimate has the power to remove ANY placed enemy effect, and should therefore get a three-second cast time. It should also mark the player casting it, so that they can be quickly identified and interrupted by other players in PvP. The Storm Atronach is also incredibly powerful in PvE, and should therefore have 2.5 second cast time, comparable to the Warden's Feral Guardian ultimate.

Dragonknights:
Dragonknight is the tankiest class in the game, but opting for high defense should have some drawbacks. For example, off the top of my head there are two ultimates of the Dragonknight that could really use a rebalance. First of them is the Magma Armor. Magma Armor is an incredibly overpowered ultimate, which makes players completely impervious to assault. To use such an ultimate should therefore have some room for error. The best way to give players a chance to counter this ultimate, is to give it a three-second interruptable cast time. This way, players will be able to see what the player casting the ultimate is up to, and have a chance at stopping them. The Standard ability is also very overpowered, and should have a two-second cast time.

Necromancers:
The Necromancer class should be tweaked to give players the immersive feeling of what it's like to call back the dead or call upon a giant monster to kill things. Frozen Colossus, Reanimate and their morphs should therefore all have an interruptable three-second cast time.

A better option than making these changes:
Make Soul Shred, Death Stroke and their morphs instant cast again. K thnx.

Stop give ZOS bad ideas already, we already had class rebalance, set rebalance, race rebalance, dunguans rebalance, bug rebalance.

Each time some thing change, the game do not become better.

And i can say that you are not right in a lot of thingth you write, becouse you are not exp enough, to say about it.

Do you play each class you talk about? Are you good in all of them ?

Only if you are you can say some thing about balance. If you are not , if you even is good in 1 or think that you are, but you are not - stop talk about balance.

It is like paper, rock, scisors and etc.

Stop judje paper like you do it with rock.

I read your post and i see that you do not understand what you are talking about.

When I see post like this one i am heavy bleading !!!

Ignoring the quantity of spelling errors in your post and the Soul-Shriven (beginner) rank, I find it hard to believe that what you are saying is nothing but unsubstantiated ad hominems. Kindly review your arguments, and your line of reasoning for picking said arguments, and I will gladly Ben Shapiro you into Oblivion.

BlissfulDeluge

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Should nightblades be able to kill at will?

Obviously! Picking Nightblade should basically be an "I win"-option.

Nah, they shouldn't be able to kill at will, but they should have good burst single-target damage to "pick off" targets, as it were, to fill the assassin niche, in PvP, just like Templars and Dragonknights have their "houses", as Wrobel once said. And of course, all classes should be able to fill all roles in PvE, more or less.

I'd be fine with Cloak having a penalty like Streak and roll-dodging does, where if you use it too soon it gets an x% extra cost. But I think that to remove the bursty nature of Nightblades' single-target abilities is the equivalent of gimping the heals for Templars, or survivability of Dragonknights.

Drdeath20

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Should nightblades be able to kill at will?

Obviously! Picking Nightblade should basically be an "I win"-option.

Nah, they shouldn't be able to kill at will, but they should have good burst single-target damage to "pick off" targets, as it were, to fill the assassin niche, in PvP, just like Templars and Dragonknights have their "houses", as Wrobel once said. And of course, all classes should be able to fill all roles in PvE, more or less.

I'd be fine with Cloak having a penalty like Streak and roll-dodging does, where if you use it too soon it gets an x% extra cost. But I think that to remove the bursty nature of Nightblades' single-target abilities is the equivalent of gimping the heals for Templars, or survivability of Dragonknights.

Theres hundreds maybe even thousands of videos showing why nightblades needed that burst toned down. Instagibbin medium size groups of players.

Remove the cloaky nature of nightblades....(fixed for proper comparison) and they already gimped heals for templars enormously (battlespirit) and gimped dk's survivability (wings)

BlissfulDeluge

Drdeath20 wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Should nightblades be able to kill at will?

Obviously! Picking Nightblade should basically be an "I win"-option.

Nah, they shouldn't be able to kill at will, but they should have good burst single-target damage to "pick off" targets, as it were, to fill the assassin niche, in PvP, just like Templars and Dragonknights have their "houses", as Wrobel once said. And of course, all classes should be able to fill all roles in PvE, more or less.

I'd be fine with Cloak having a penalty like Streak and roll-dodging does, where if you use it too soon it gets an x% extra cost. But I think that to remove the bursty nature of Nightblades' single-target abilities is the equivalent of gimping the heals for Templars, or survivability of Dragonknights.

Theres hundreds maybe even thousands of videos showing why nightblades needed that burst toned down. Instagibbin medium size groups of players.

Remove the cloaky nature of nightblades....(fixed for proper comparison) and they already gimped heals for templars enormously (battlespirit) and gimped dk's survivability (wings)

Do explain how instagibbing with Death Stroke, which is a single-target ultimate, works.

Pretty pls.

Also, DKs have enormous survivability, still, with the way Dragon's Blood, the Earthen Heart passives and Magma Armor functions

BlissfulDeluge

Rahar wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

What's the point of satirical threads like this? The only thing of actual substance you have here is the last sentence, and that's only asking the devs to do something without providing any actual reasoning. If you wanted to make a point, you'd be much better served by skipping the irony next time.

For what it's worth, I agree with you, though. Cast times should go... Or at least be even across the board, instead of slamming one skill with it and leaving the others untouched.

If you got the point, then why would I have to make it even clearer? But since you ask for actual substance, sure, why not.

Death Stroke - 0.4 second cast time makes it difficult to weave, and easily avoided (as most players in PvP with something between their ears will dodge roll after breaking free from a stun). The 20% damage increase is nice, but has to be on point, if the ability even hits the target, cus of the point made prior. Soul Harvest has good ultimate generation, but not really, because it only counts enemies that you got the killing blow on, which makes the ult gen unreliable. Incapacitating Strike has Reave, which restores resources on light attacks, and Silences the enemy four three seconds IF cast with 120 ultimate (30 ultimate shy of 150 ultimate).

Comparatively, abilities like Radial Sweep do AoE damage, are cheaper, and have more damage or damage mitigation, depending on which morph you pick. Feral Guardian is a pet that gives a fire-and-forget DPS boost while active, and mauls the enemies for high damage at 75 ultimate (+100% damage if the target is below 25% health).

Consuming Darkness - A fairly decent ability, if only because it hasn't been nerfed to sheit yet. Choice between extra mitigation and AoE damage depending on the morph. Comparable to Nova and Dragonknight Standard. No complaints here, tbh.

Soul Shred - This ability has two versions. Soul Siphon functions as a heal, and Soul Tether functions as a damage ability. Things get a little complicated here, because I think Soul Tether is fine having a cast time. It's an area-stun with the player at its centre, and that's a make-or-break ability that has both potential for damage, and potential for self-healing.

That said, I think Soul Siphon should not have a cast time. This is because it is strictly a healing ability that, while it gives Major Vitality, it does not provide the mitigation that Rite of Passage does, which as I am sure you know, is instant-cast. To put it simply, I think it is unfair that NBs have an AoE burst heal ultimate with a cast time that isn't guaranteed to even save just yourself, while Templars can boost themselves back up to max health with the click of a button, and stand there taking all the punishment in the world without their health moving and inch closer to what it was before.

---

My point overall, if I cannot stress it any more clearly, is that I think it is unfair for the Nightblade to be the only class with a ton of cast times on their abilities, and that I think other classes should get the same treatment. Nightblades were unique, once. They had access to abilities like Incapacitating Strike that could be cast to quickly burst a lone target down before running away and picking another battle. They had access to fear, which was the only ability that could stun a player through block.

Then everyone else complained and now Mass Hysteria is a *** ability that requires getting up close and personal to make use of it, while Dragonknights can just hurl a fossilize halfway across the battlefield to stun you from afar.

Nightblades are garbage, and I'm honestly sick of it.

Completely agree on all points. The cast times were added to avoid weaving and canceling, and it does as advertised. Without commenting on whether animation canceling should be taken out of the game or not (as it is a somewhat controversial topic), the question becomes something like, "Why did Nightblades get hit so hard with this exclusively?".

Point is, every single-target ultimate like Death Stroke should have a large delay (~400ms, as you said), or none of them should have it. Same with AoE ultimates. If animation canceling has to go, we need to treat similar skills similarly. Otherwise we'll inevitably end up with classes and ultimates that always massively outperform others due to some arbitrary hair-splitting cast time placement.

Also note that when I say "cast time", I mean time that has to pass before any effects take place from using the skill. This would mean, of course, that Rite of Passage (to use another example you've also used) would gain a small delay before the first heal went out, but still be channeled. There will be no special snowflakes in this bleak cast time world.

I'm glad we can find common ground. I'm not against Nightblades being counterable, they should be, like any other class should be, but I think that to penalize Nightblades so heavily is a misstep.

I'd rather see more ways to counter cloak. Perhaps increasing the range of Magelight/Expert Hunter could work. Perhaps adding cost-scaling to cloak could work. There are ways to counter Nightblades, and I think the game is better served by teaching players how to better deal with NBs, just like how the game is better served giving ways to counter other classes' strengths.

Rahar

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

BlissfulDelusions wrote: »

Rahar wrote: »

What's the point of satirical threads like this? The only thing of actual substance you have here is the last sentence, and that's only asking the devs to do something without providing any actual reasoning. If you wanted to make a point, you'd be much better served by skipping the irony next time.

For what it's worth, I agree with you, though. Cast times should go... Or at least be even across the board, instead of slamming one skill with it and leaving the others untouched.

If you got the point, then why would I have to make it even clearer? But since you ask for actual substance, sure, why not.

Death Stroke - 0.4 second cast time makes it difficult to weave, and easily avoided (as most players in PvP with something between their ears will dodge roll after breaking free from a stun). The 20% damage increase is nice, but has to be on point, if the ability even hits the target, cus of the point made prior. Soul Harvest has good ultimate generation, but not really, because it only counts enemies that you got the killing blow on, which makes the ult gen unreliable. Incapacitating Strike has Reave, which restores resources on light attacks, and Silences the enemy four three seconds IF cast with 120 ultimate (30 ultimate shy of 150 ultimate).

Comparatively, abilities like Radial Sweep do AoE damage, are cheaper, and have more damage or damage mitigation, depending on which morph you pick. Feral Guardian is a pet that gives a fire-and-forget DPS boost while active, and mauls the enemies for high damage at 75 ultimate (+100% damage if the target is below 25% health).

Consuming Darkness - A fairly decent ability, if only because it hasn't been nerfed to sheit yet. Choice between extra mitigation and AoE damage depending on the morph. Comparable to Nova and Dragonknight Standard. No complaints here, tbh.

Soul Shred - This ability has two versions. Soul Siphon functions as a heal, and Soul Tether functions as a damage ability. Things get a little complicated here, because I think Soul Tether is fine having a cast time. It's an area-stun with the player at its centre, and that's a make-or-break ability that has both potential for damage, and potential for self-healing.

That said, I think Soul Siphon should not have a cast time. This is because it is strictly a healing ability that, while it gives Major Vitality, it does not provide the mitigation that Rite of Passage does, which as I am sure you know, is instant-cast. To put it simply, I think it is unfair that NBs have an AoE burst heal ultimate with a cast time that isn't guaranteed to even save just yourself, while Templars can boost themselves back up to max health with the click of a button, and stand there taking all the punishment in the world without their health moving and inch closer to what it was before.

---

My point overall, if I cannot stress it any more clearly, is that I think it is unfair for the Nightblade to be the only class with a ton of cast times on their abilities, and that I think other classes should get the same treatment. Nightblades were unique, once. They had access to abilities like Incapacitating Strike that could be cast to quickly burst a lone target down before running away and picking another battle. They had access to fear, which was the only ability that could stun a player through block.

Then everyone else complained and now Mass Hysteria is a *** ability that requires getting up close and personal to make use of it, while Dragonknights can just hurl a fossilize halfway across the battlefield to stun you from afar.

Nightblades are garbage, and I'm honestly sick of it.

Completely agree on all points. The cast times were added to avoid weaving and canceling, and it does as advertised. Without commenting on whether animation canceling should be taken out of the game or not (as it is a somewhat controversial topic), the question becomes something like, "Why did Nightblades get hit so hard with this exclusively?".

Point is, every single-target ultimate like Death Stroke should have a large delay (~400ms, as you said), or none of them should have it. Same with AoE ultimates. If animation canceling has to go, we need to treat similar skills similarly. Otherwise we'll inevitably end up with classes and ultimates that always massively outperform others due to some arbitrary hair-splitting cast time placement.

Also note that when I say "cast time", I mean time that has to pass before any effects take place from using the skill. This would mean, of course, that Rite of Passage (to use another example you've also used) would gain a small delay before the first heal went out, but still be channeled. There will be no special snowflakes in this bleak cast time world.

I'm glad we can find common ground. I'm not against Nightblades being counterable, they should be, like any other class should be, but I think that to penalize Nightblades so heavily is a misstep.

I'd rather see more ways to counter cloak. Perhaps increasing the range of Magelight/Expert Hunter could work. Perhaps adding cost-scaling to cloak could work. There are ways to counter Nightblades, and I think the game is better served by teaching players how to better deal with NBs, just like how the game is better served giving ways to counter other classes' strengths.

Honestly -- and this is far off topic so I'll keep it very short -- If they had the old streak scaling on cloak, made the fatigue last somewhere around 6-8s, but then made it unbreakable by damage, I think it would be pretty much fine and a lot less people would complain about it and it would be a valid defense. But who knows?

Ragnarock41

I like your username, and that very carefully chosen forum avatar is beyond perfection.

Your suggestions are terribly lacking though regarding Dk. Dragon leap didn't receive any cast time and as a result it is inferior to dawnbreaker and other damage ultimates. This biased treatment is completely unacceptable.

Lokey0024

If you don't want to change your play style, swap Ults. DBoS lands and stuns, do it from stealth then Bow. It's not easy because the "Burst Class" NB sets up for damage and little Defense. If you challenge a NB that doesn't abuse the "I take damage and hide, Chugging potions for Ult" you really notice they are kinda good. Maim, high regen, high base damage abilities.

JinMori

This post is basically, hey there are problems, so in order to bring those problems in line with other *** abilities let's nerf them.

Nothing to see here. Only disappointment.

The resto ulti though is a bit ridiculous, healing in general is overall for pvp.