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Skiptracers of the Last Dwemer. Yagrum Bagarn in ESO.

Aigym_Hlervu
Aigym_Hlervu
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Hello, guys. It might be a pursuit of Holy Grail, but still it might give some results. This thread started by @ExoArchivist and the reply of @Dark_Lord_Kuro inspired me to think over the possibility and finally ask the Community for help because there is a chance to find Yagrum Bagarn here in ESO. But it seems to be really hard if not impossible to do it alone. Yagrum Bagarn is known to be the last living Dwemer we meet in 3E 427 (TES III). Below are some of my calculations of the chance to meet him and some ideas of where and how we might find him currently in 2E 582-583.

Here are some Bagarn's phrases he says during our conversation in the Third Era. We have to pay attention to his words regarding the chronology of his life: he came back to Red Mountain from the Outer Realms only to find his race disappeared. After it he was wandering Tamriel in search for survivors or answers in the deserted colonies of his folk for years - thousands of years before we meet him. Then again he came back to Red Mountain in search of answers but became a mindless monster. After it Divayth Fyr brought him to Tel Fyr and brought back his very self. That is his story.

So why is there a chance Yagrum Bagarn has already been in Tamriel by the time of ESO?
1. Bagarn came back to Tamriel after the Battle of Red Mountain which occurred in 1E 668 but before Dagoth Ur reawoke in 2E 882 because he did not encounter any signs of the Sharmat's creation during his first return from the Outer Realm. Thus he could not return after 2E 882. Overall it is about 3134 years span but, yes, it does mean he still might return after the ESO years of 2E 582-583 but before 2E 882.
2. Then he left Red Mountain and travelled accross Tamriel in search of survivors and answers - he did it thousands of years ago as he says. That means at least 2000 years before we meet him in 3E 427. So he returned to Tamriel at least in 1E ~2243 (1E 2243+2000 years=3E 427). After it he begins to travel and visits those deserted Dwemeri colonies and never mentions or even cues he ever left Tamriel again for the second time. This means he's been here in 2E 582-583 at least for 1259 years already thus excluding the last possibility of his absence.
3. He wanders Tamriel for years (as he mentions) before finally returning to Red Mountain for the second time since his folk disappeared. But this time he becomes one of Dagoth Ur's monsters. This visit will happen not before 300 years after ESO in 2E 882 the time Dagoth Ur reawakens.
4. Finally, these dialogue lines are not present anywhere even on the uesp, but you can check it in-game yourself or watch it on youtube: Barilzar during the Divine Inquiries quest in response to our "I'm still not sure I understand what you need me to do" says "Good help is as rare as the legendary Last Dwemer, but a clockwork is only as strong as its weakest cog". A single line with so much sense. If Bagarn is still somewhere in the Outer Realms Barilzar must be unaware of his existence. This also supports the idea.

What and where to search:
1. In TES III Yagrum Bagarn technically is not of an NPC or even of a humanoid type - he is a Special creature along with both Dagoth Ur objects, Vivec, and the Heart of Lorkhan. So in ESO he might as well be a hooded creature, a voice from beyond a closed door or just disguised as a strange Altmer or a Bosmer with a Dwemeri beard or he might have a name similar to his real one. If he is present the way like this, there must be at least a minor cue the object we face is Yagrum himself.
2. He might be everywhere (if the Developers have ever included him by this moment) but according to his own words he is searching for his kin and explanations somewhere in the former Dwemeri territories. Vvardenfell, Hammerfell, High Rock, Skyrim and so on. He might be found in some Dwemeri ruins, public and group dungeons (such as the Fang Lair dungeon in Bangkorai with its Dwemeri temple inside). But he also might be somewhere on the way in wilderness or transit cities.

I might be wrong in some thoughts, but what if the Devs have already given us an answer? Who's up with me? If you find something interesting regarding this matter - please, share! Maybe someday we find him or the Devs will give us a clue if they haven't done it already. Thank you all in advance! Special thanks to @ExoArchivist and @Dark_Lord_Kuro.
Edited by Aigym_Hlervu on September 24, 2019 10:10PM
  • ShawnLaRock
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    I would love to see him!

    <sorry - this was supposed to include a pic of the blurb after I killed him in Morrowind... but an Imgur link or direct upload don’t seem to work>

    S.
    Edited by ShawnLaRock on September 24, 2019 10:54PM
  • Sylvermynx
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    @ShawnLaRock - did you use the share links dropdown to select BBCode (for forums)?
  • ShawnLaRock
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    I am not sure. I tried an option to directly upload; use the link when I copied the image I uploaded to Imgur; and also used a longer URL provided from that page. I have no idea how to do it... but it was really just supposed to be a quick joke post b/c of how shocked I was that Morrowind essentially ends & you have to reload if you kill him.

    S.
  • Holycannoli
    Holycannoli
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    I want a Yagrum Bagarn pet
  • Aigym_Hlervu
    Aigym_Hlervu
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    I am not sure. I tried an option to directly upload; use the link when I copied the image I uploaded to Imgur; and also used a longer URL provided from that page. I have no idea how to do it... but it was really just supposed to be a quick joke post b/c of how shocked I was that Morrowind essentially ends & you have to reload if you kill him.

    S.

    Hey, Shawn! Try inserting this directly into your text: (img)https://www.___.__/ShawnLaRock_killing_a_Dwemer.jpg(/img). Just change those round "()" into square ones "[]".
    Edited by Aigym_Hlervu on September 25, 2019 8:00AM
  • Aliyavana
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    the dialogue is probably one of the ones that requires you to exit out of the conversation then talk to the npc again before continueing, which is why it might not be documented. is there a specific video you can link here that I can take a look at so it can be documented?
  • Aigym_Hlervu
    Aigym_Hlervu
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    Aliyavana wrote: »
    the dialogue is probably one of the ones that requires you to exit out of the conversation then talk to the npc again before continueing, which is why it might not be documented. is there a specific video you can link here that I can take a look at so it can be documented?

    Yes, that is exactly the type of the dialogue. A video, well, here is a short one I've found there on youtube. The actual dialogue starts at 2:45. The same link is here if the video below does not play. Thank you!

  • Benzux
    Benzux
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    Meeting Yagrum before his corprus infection would definitely be something, and could be used to give us some more lore on the Dwemer - though I would wish that any lore is left "vague" (perhaps Yagrum would at this point be hesitant in telling others the secrets of his race, and he might even be hesitant in revealing that he is indeed a Dwemer), in order to keep the mystery related to the Dwemer still there.

    I have theorized that if we ever get more exploreable areas in Skyrim through DLC or Expansions, we could also get Blackreach as a location, perhaps as a large public dungeon with multiple entrances. Though how ZoS handles the entry into Blackreach (as it requires an attunement sphere) would be a different question, though the possible speculated entrance from Irkngthand could be "the" entrance (possibly requiring no attunement sphere to function, meaning that we could enter it freely). If that happens, the players encountering Yagrum exploring the depths of Fal'Zhardum Din seems possible.
    BenzuxGamer - Xbox One since day 1 - CP 1500+
    Guildmaster of the Sacrificial Warriors, one of the oldest and most member-orientated Guilds on the Xbox One EU Megaserver
    "Casual" player from Finland who enjoys questing and dumb builds even after well over 1000 CP levels and 4000+ hours. A fan of Argonians, Goats and Elk. Also a massive Otaku (MAL Profile).
    "Following the meta makes you a sheep. That's why I'm a goat: I go in the opposite direction and make use of the things the sheep cannot." - Me, 2019
    Characters:
    Ben-Zu - Argonian MagDK DPS - EP (Main)
    Benzuth Telvanni - Dunmer MagSorc DPS - EP
    Haknir Head-Crusher - Nord DK Tank/Stam DPS - EP
    Delves-Deepest-Depths - Argonian StamBlade DPS - EP
    Raises-The-Dead - Argonian Mag Necromancer DPS7Healer - EP (Previously a Sorc healer, RIP)
    Bthuzdir Ynzavretz - Dwemer StamSorc DPS - AD (Dunmer in-game)
    Fafnir the Dragon - Nord Stam DK DPS - EP
    Bloodmage Thalnos - Breton MagBlade DPS - DC
    Finnis Wolfheart - Bosmer Stam Warden DPS - EP
    Gwyneth - Nord Warden Tank - EP
    Kud-Wazei Xeroicas - Argonian Mag Templar DPS/Tank - EP
    Barkskin Ben-Zhu - Argonian Warden Healer - EP (Alternate version of main)
    Xal-Vakka Xeroicas - Argonian DK Healer - EP
    Jaree-Shei the Wamasu - Argonian Sorcerer Tank - EP
    Gwennen Ereloth - Snow Elf Mag Warden DPS - EP (Dunmer in-game)
    Friedrich der Grosse - Imperial Nightblade Tank - EP
    Warfarin - Altmer Nightblade Healer - EP
  • Aliyavana
    Aliyavana
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    thanks for the find, ended up documenting the dialogue
  • Aigym_Hlervu
    Aigym_Hlervu
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    Absolutely agree with you, @Benzux. I hope there will be some cues in the Western Skyrim and Blackreach.. And I also hope Yagrum has been somewhere all this time unnoticed. You remember the Harmonic Auditor?
    ON-npc-Harmonic_Auditor.jpg

    Yes, he is definitively someone else, not Yagrum, but in spite of being technically an Altmer with some unique features (just like the in-game Ayleids) he is like a Dwemer returned from some Outer Realm but unlike Yagrum with some knowledge of what has happened to his folk. Look at his dialogue lines and the environment of an untouched Dwemeri ruin of Rkindaleft - it makes us think the Auditor to be another Dwemeri survivor. Yagrum could have been incorporated into the game just the same way. Barilzar has also written a book stating that he had met some of the most interesting conversations ever with the residents in the Clockwork City. Among them he names those Sotha Sil invited to take part in his researches, the extraneous cast-offs, lost travelers, and trapped planar explorers - these all are also Yagrum's features.
    He might be somewhere in the Clockwork City hidden enough for us to make little account of his identity the same way the Auditor is made uncertain.

    Oh, by the way: if there was such a thing with Barilzar's dialogue line due to the reason @Aliyavana mentioned (thanks for documenting it!), could anyone check the in-game dialogue lines of the Harmonic Auditor? He might also have something extremely interesting to say ignored on the uesp due to the same reason.
    Edited by Aigym_Hlervu on September 25, 2019 7:13PM
  • Finedaible
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    I always thought the Harmonic Auditor was some sort of nod to Fallout's The Master.
  • Aigym_Hlervu
    Aigym_Hlervu
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    Finedaible wrote: »
    I always thought the Harmonic Auditor was some sort of nod to Fallout's The Master.

    He might be, but he still has to fit the universe lore.
  • Benzux
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    Absolutely agree with you, @Benzux. I hope there will be some cues in the Western Skyrim and Blackreach.. And I also hope Yagrum has been somewhere all this time unnoticed. You remember the Harmonic Auditor?
    ON-npc-Harmonic_Auditor.jpg

    Yes, he is definitively someone else, not Yagrum, but in spite of being technically an Altmer with some unique features (just like the in-game Ayleids) he is like a Dwemer returned from some Outer Realm but unlike Yagrum with some knowledge of what has happened to his folk. Look at his dialogue lines and the environment of an untouched Dwemeri ruin of Rkindaleft - it makes us think the Auditor to be another Dwemeri survivor. Yagrum could have been incorporated into the game just the same way. Barilzar has also written a book stating that he had met some of the most interesting conversations ever with the residents in the Clockwork City. Among them he names those Sotha Sil invited to take part in his researches, the extraneous cast-offs, lost travelers, and trapped planar explorers - these all are also Yagrum's features.
    He might be somewhere in the Clockwork City hidden enough for us to make little account of his identity the same way the Auditor is made uncertain.

    Oh, by the way: if there was such a thing with Barilzar's dialogue line due to the reason @Aliyavana mentioned (thanks for documenting it!), could anyone check the in-game dialogue lines of the Harmonic Auditor? He might also have something extremely interesting to say ignored on the uesp due to the same reason.

    I do indeed remember the Auditor, I contemplated on mentioning him in my previous post, but I'm glad someone else brought him up. Given his existence, as well as the existence of the Naga from Murkmire (and the Maormer from Summerset), it's likely very easy for ZoS to implement a modified version of an Altmer or Dunmer model, should they add Yagrum as an NPC in a future DLC/Expansion.
    Though, unless one counts the Auditor's attempts at merging living souls with Automata as a replication of the theory that the Dwemer became part of the Numidium, I think he's as clueless as the rest of us. And it's also likely that he's already not quite right in the head, which is understandable, as the poor guy must have been sitting in that chair for millennia, depending on when he "returned" to Mundus - if he is indeed a Dwemer who was not within the Plane during 1E 700, like Yagrum. And it's probably better that way - that he is clueless, that is - since the mystery is a part of the Dwemer at this point.
    BenzuxGamer - Xbox One since day 1 - CP 1500+
    Guildmaster of the Sacrificial Warriors, one of the oldest and most member-orientated Guilds on the Xbox One EU Megaserver
    "Casual" player from Finland who enjoys questing and dumb builds even after well over 1000 CP levels and 4000+ hours. A fan of Argonians, Goats and Elk. Also a massive Otaku (MAL Profile).
    "Following the meta makes you a sheep. That's why I'm a goat: I go in the opposite direction and make use of the things the sheep cannot." - Me, 2019
    Characters:
    Ben-Zu - Argonian MagDK DPS - EP (Main)
    Benzuth Telvanni - Dunmer MagSorc DPS - EP
    Haknir Head-Crusher - Nord DK Tank/Stam DPS - EP
    Delves-Deepest-Depths - Argonian StamBlade DPS - EP
    Raises-The-Dead - Argonian Mag Necromancer DPS7Healer - EP (Previously a Sorc healer, RIP)
    Bthuzdir Ynzavretz - Dwemer StamSorc DPS - AD (Dunmer in-game)
    Fafnir the Dragon - Nord Stam DK DPS - EP
    Bloodmage Thalnos - Breton MagBlade DPS - DC
    Finnis Wolfheart - Bosmer Stam Warden DPS - EP
    Gwyneth - Nord Warden Tank - EP
    Kud-Wazei Xeroicas - Argonian Mag Templar DPS/Tank - EP
    Barkskin Ben-Zhu - Argonian Warden Healer - EP (Alternate version of main)
    Xal-Vakka Xeroicas - Argonian DK Healer - EP
    Jaree-Shei the Wamasu - Argonian Sorcerer Tank - EP
    Gwennen Ereloth - Snow Elf Mag Warden DPS - EP (Dunmer in-game)
    Friedrich der Grosse - Imperial Nightblade Tank - EP
    Warfarin - Altmer Nightblade Healer - EP
  • TheShadowScout
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    Yagrum Bagarn in ESO.
    ...is quite possible.

    As outlined by the OP, at this time period he should be searching for hints that might unravel the dwemer mystery.

    So... it would make -great- sense for him to show up if they ever make a dwemer-themed DLC... which would be a nifty idea, like, make a DLC that is an region-sized dwemer city to explore (Blackreach perhaps?) and have Yagrum as NPC driving the plot of a "Whatever happened to the Dwemer?" storyline (even though in the end, it would not close on an answer, but only raise more questions, as we -know- Yagrum never found a single living dwemer, nor a hint to where they went... but it -would- be a neat place to add some "dwemer time flashback" questings, which many people might appreciate very much...)
    - it makes us think the Auditor to be another Dwemeri survivor.
    That is one possibility.

    Another might be that he is not a dwemer, but actually worked with them - I could very easily see an exiled altmer mage being apprentice to a dwemer artificer back in the days before the battle of red mountain, and when his master disappears... bind himself to the machines in a desperate attempt to continue their work?

    Still, all speculation at this point, right? (but fun speculation!)
  • Aigym_Hlervu
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    Yes, @TheShadowScout, it is a speculation of course. I mentioned the Auditor to show how Yagrum Bagarn can possibly be depicted in ESO if the ZOS has already included him inside the game. He is an example only. I don't make any theories on who the Auditor is due to a lack of information on him I possess. He can turn out to be anyone or just stay such an uncertain figure he is now. Anyway he is not the hero of this thread cause he's definitively not Bagarn ;).

    I just hope someone writes here some day "Hey, guys! I've found him! He's that fat Orc dressed in full Dwemeri armor whose name is Yagrum gro-Bagarn! He's on the beach of Auridon drinking sujamma with local mudcrabs!" or something of that sort of thing. The calculations say he's been in Tamriel already by this time, so he can be already in the game or/and might be included in the upcoming DLCs. I just don't think the ZOS will ever tell the community they've done it, making it instead as silent and undetected as possible. Yagrum is a very specific character though.
    Edited by Aigym_Hlervu on September 26, 2019 6:46PM
  • Aigym_Hlervu
    Aigym_Hlervu
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    So, now we have another candidate for the role of Yagrum Bagarn in ESO - those who are not acquainted with him yet, please, meet Thaddeus Cosma, an Imperial time traveler we meet in Nchuthnkarst. The first thing to mention here is the time machine itself: it turns out the Dwemer created it and it works, casting Kireth Vanos to the future - some time after 4E 5, the Red Year (as she says it: "One moment I was back in Morrowind, but it was different. Vivec City was a smoking crater. The next moment I was underwater and struggling to breathe. Then I was falling into a volcano. Then I was here"). Her brother, though, seems to be teleported back in time, possibly to the period of existence of the Dwemer. Too bad those "they" erase his memory just prior of his final return. Anyway, this device is another cue that the Dwemer did not simply vanish in the Seventh century of the First Era. If Bagarn is somewhere out there seeking the remnants of his nation, he surely might come to the place like this time machine.

    Now back to Cosma. Some say he's actually Abnur Tharn wearing a Dwemeri armor and an Imperial Mananaut helmet. Indeed, massive energy flows like the one he had to face can cause people to teleport great distances and possibly time. Proctor Luciana Pullo is a good example of it. But except the fact that Cosma's face is very like Abnur's one, nothing tells that Cosma is actually Tharn. Cosma lacks Alfred Molina's voice or.. was that really Alfred's changed voice? If anyone knows if that is Mr. Molina's voice, please, tell us here about it. Still, I doubt that Cosma is actually Yagrum Bagarn disguised, but something tells me there is a little possibility he could be the last Dwemer: he seems to be an Imperial, but we see only a part of his face and hands. Our knowledge of the Dwemeri appearance is based on the Yagrum's one and the ghosts like Radac Stungnthumz - everything else is just fan fiction until depicted in the game. And the in-game features we have seen tell us that the Dwemer could possibly look like ordinary Imperial humans - just have a look at Bagarn's face in the Legends. So, since nobody has published a theory "Thaddeus Cosma is Yagrum Bagarn" on the Internet (or at least I haven't found it), let me be the first. Though, I understand that this theory is way more impossible to be truth then possible, I could have missed something around the new Western Skyrim content and would be thankful if you share your observations here too. We'll see how the Cosma's character develops further on. Still, the search for the last Dwemer continues :)!
    Edited by Aigym_Hlervu on June 14, 2020 2:51AM
  • TheImperfect
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    Neramo is always poking around dwemer places.
  • Glurin
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    Anyway, this device is another cue that the Dwemer did not simply vanish in the Seventh century of the First Era.

    Actually it supports the theory that they did. You screw around with the fourth dimension and you risk being erased from existence.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..."
  • Aigym_Hlervu
    Aigym_Hlervu
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    Glurin wrote: »
    Anyway, this device is another cue that the Dwemer did not simply vanish in the Seventh century of the First Era.

    Actually it supports the theory that they did. You screw around with the fourth dimension and you risk being erased from existence.

    Well, it is possible, of course, but depends on what you mean saying "erased from existence". If you mean they "erased the whole process of their existence", then I think it is little possible. Bagarn exists and the consequences of the Dwemer existence we see in their creations do exist too along with the memory of them. They vanished from the 1E 668 - 4E 201 period, but not from the very existence for sure. In that post I meant the time machine we see in Blackreach supports the idea that the Dwemer who lived in Nchuthnkarst could time travel. Every mechanism has it's purpose, so the question is that if those Dwemer were not too late to use the time machine before their Resdayn brethren used the Tools. Since the Time Machine is now recognized by the lore, I believe the Dwemer of Blackreach were able to see the future of their race, but still were unable to change it because of the reasons Sotha Sil tells us.

    Moreover, we know the origins of different merethic nations, but we still do not know for sure the origins of the Dwemer race and the history of their establishment - during his brief return Raynor, wearing those Dwemeri robes, says "Don't think of time and space as a road upon which you travel, but rather a rope, or a cable. Many threads, all bound together with no beginning or end." Just like that Ouroboros, I guess. I won't be surprised to know if the existence of their civilization, the key to the Dwemeri technological success and their mockery at the Daedra are based on the thing that their history somehow goes "upside down", in the opposite direction of the history of all other races - the Dwemer were at their highest level having somehow passed through those satchel slavery, feudalism, capitalism while the rest of the races were still slavers and slaves, early colonists and refugees. The Dwemeri "thread in the rope" might have been changed and instead of being vanished in the past they could have not yet emerged to existence. Hah, well, by 4E 201 Vvardenfell has already sunk in the ocean, the Altmer are in Skyrim - a little more time to pass and they could conquer the entire Tamriel, enslave or destroy everybody, then kill one of their leaders, tie his heart to an arrow, shoot it into the Red Mountain crater, settle at the Dwemer ruins and reanimate them, then wait till the Chimer come, repeat the history once again and vanish in another Battle at Red Mountain :p. Well, these are just my groundless speculations, of course - nothing in the lore tells us it is the actual truth. What I believe in is that everything depends on the scriptwriters and that Yagrum Bagarn should be somewhere around, because it's a legendary character, and it's been quite a time to show him off to us. I'm just not sure they haven't already done it.
    Edited by Aigym_Hlervu on June 14, 2020 3:12AM
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