Balancing snipe

ThePhantomThorn

Don’t get me wrong I like sniping and think it’s a valid play style but we need to make it more like a snipe
Less like a spammable, glitchy mediocre damage skill

So first I think that it needs a MAJOR damage buff (to make it more like a proper snipe) but I thing it should have a longer cast time to balance. Basically so you can’t stack snipes before the 1st one lands.
It should be a high damage, long range, and precision skill that can kill a player very fast. Not something that you stack in midair in 1 target.

For the salty ones here are some counters to snipe:
-dodge roll (it’s super effective!)
-cloak
-damage shields
-block

Any other ideas on making snipe a proper sniping tool?


Edit: post at bottom covering all ideas so easier to read

psycoprophet

Isn't Los a counter as well?

Iskiab

What about a 10 second cast time and buff the damage 20%?

I have nothing against snipe, but the health desyncs need to be fixed before it can be buffed. Last week I was mounted and went from 100% health to dead mounted instantly. My dead recap said 3x snipes and a weapon proc, that should have been easily counterable.

Using snipe now is like an exploit. It’s not good for either player and needs to be fixed tout suite.

technohic

Ok but the start of the cast should pull you out of stealth

ThePhantomThorn

technohic wrote: »

Ok but the start of the cast should pull you out of stealth

This would definitely stop people crying about being gabled as there would be more counterplay
Nice idea

ThePhantomThorn

Iskiab wrote: »

What about a 10 second cast time and buff the damage 20%?

I have nothing against snipe, but the health desyncs need to be fixed before it can be buffed. Last week I was mounted and went from 100% health to dead mounted instantly. My dead recap said 3x snipes and a weapon proc, that should have been easily counterable.

Using snipe now is like an exploit. It’s not good for either player and needs to be fixed tout suite.

That’s what I mean about making it less spammy. And the lag doesn’t help 1 bit

brandonv516

Snipe is fine with the exception of one glaring advantage for some.

The ability to easily recreate desync issues with the skill is damning towards any serious balance discussions.

ThePhantomThorn

brandonv516 wrote: »

Snipe is fine with the exception of one glaring advantage for some.

The ability to easily recreate desync issues with the skill is damning towards any serious balance discussions.

That’s 1 of the things I want to change
Spmming it is annoying and brain dead. I’m mostly just throwing ideas around on fixing it overall to make it better on all angles. For ganking and other builds
But the lag is zos’ problem

Vapirko

No it does not need a huge damage buff it already does more damage than dizzy swing on PTS. There is no good way to balance this skill. It will always be either OP or useless and has never stopped causing insane desyncs. It will never be useful to anyone but gankers and zerglings because of the cast time and if you remove it you make it OP unless you nerf the damage to the point that it doesn’t serve its purpose. It already had a huge damage buff and got tuned down. Honestly just delete it from the game. Just rip the bandaid off. People will cry at first but that’s ok right? Just adapt.

ThePhantomThorn

Vapirko wrote: »

No it does not need a huge damage buff it already does more damage than dizzy swing on PTS. There is no good way to balance this skill. It will always be either OP or useless and has never stopped causing insane desyncs. It will never be useful to anyone but gankers and zerglings because of the cast time and if you remove it you make it OP unless you nerf the damage to the point that it doesn’t serve its purpose. It already had a huge damage buff and got tuned down. Honestly just delete it from the game. Just rip the bandaid off. People will cry at first but that’s ok right? Just adapt.

Ganking is a valid playstyle. I always enjoyed sniping in many games and therefore I do in eso.
I just want to make snipe less spammy than before to make it a quicker, cleaner kill.
Basically pre elsweyr snipe

Vapirko

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

No it does not need a huge damage buff it already does more damage than dizzy swing on PTS. There is no good way to balance this skill. It will always be either OP or useless and has never stopped causing insane desyncs. It will never be useful to anyone but gankers and zerglings because of the cast time and if you remove it you make it OP unless you nerf the damage to the point that it doesn’t serve its purpose. It already had a huge damage buff and got tuned down. Honestly just delete it from the game. Just rip the bandaid off. People will cry at first but that’s ok right? Just adapt.

Ganking is a valid playstyle. I always enjoyed sniping in many games and therefore I do in eso.
I just want to make snipe less spammy than before to make it a quicker, cleaner kill.
Basically pre elsweyr snipe

Any play style is valid, this one is just used with very little risk and a high reward and you want to lower that risk further. Petition ZOS to fix the skill then you can talk about balance.

jadarock

One buff snipe thread wasnt enough OP?

ChefZero

Well ZOS decreased the casttime to 0.8s because many asked for a spamable in the bow skillline. So one morph at least should work as a spamable.

But one morph could changed to 3s casttime, 15-30% more damage and reveal on cast.

Marcus684

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

No it does not need a huge damage buff it already does more damage than dizzy swing on PTS. There is no good way to balance this skill. It will always be either OP or useless and has never stopped causing insane desyncs. It will never be useful to anyone but gankers and zerglings because of the cast time and if you remove it you make it OP unless you nerf the damage to the point that it doesn’t serve its purpose. It already had a huge damage buff and got tuned down. Honestly just delete it from the game. Just rip the bandaid off. People will cry at first but that’s ok right? Just adapt.

Ganking is a valid playstyle. I always enjoyed sniping in many games and therefore I do in eso.
I just want to make snipe less spammy than before to make it a quicker, cleaner kill.
Basically pre elsweyr snipe

FFS. Why are some people so opposed to actually fighting someone in a manner that allows them to fight back!?

JobooAGS

ChefZero wrote: »

Well ZOS decreased the casttime to 0.8s because many asked for a spamable in the bow skillline. So one morph at least should work as a spamable.

But one morph could changed to 3s casttime, 15-30% more damage and reveal on cast.

snipe is still a 1 sec cast time, dswing is .8 seconds. I wish zos will delete snipe and replace it with an actual spammable. swapping rapid fire and snipe would do.

Master_Kas

Snipe only needs two changes and it would be fine imo.

1. Make it break stealth/sneak/cloak the moment you start casting it.

2. Fix the hp-desync issues.

Thank me later.

Squidgaurd

To balance snipe you have to reduce the range and add a cd so you cannot recast untill the first snipe hits. This will ruin current snipe so you have to buff the dmg a bit not alot Zos i dont wanna see 30k snipes you Zos you.

Vapirko

Master_Kas wrote: »

Snipe only needs two changes and it would be fine imo.

1. Make it break stealth/sneak/cloak the moment you start casting it.

2. Fix the hp-desync issues.

Thank me later.

I actually think the dysnc has a lot to do with the stun mechanic when NBs fire it from stealth. So if it were impossible to fire it from stealth I think that would help a lot. Been saying this for years.

ThePhantomThorn

Squidgaurd wrote: »

To balance snipe you have to reduce the range and add a cd so you cannot recast untill the first snipe hits. This will ruin current snipe so you have to buff the dmg a bit not alot Zos i dont wanna see 30k snipes you Zos you.

Exactly what I mean
Less spammy more snipey
Im thinking a 1.5 - 2 sec cast time with a 20% - 30% dmg buff
Range wise I thing 30m would be good (it’s 40m rn) to give an idea, most gap closers are 20m

ChefZero wrote: »

Well ZOS decreased the casttime to 0.8s because many asked for a spamable in the bow skillline. So one morph at least should work as a spamable.

But one morph could changed to 3s casttime, 15-30% more damage and reveal on cast.

Yh this idea is perfect.

chris211

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Don’t get me wrong I like sniping and think it’s a valid play style but we need to make it more like a snipe
Less like a spammable, glitchy mediocre damage skill

So first I think that it needs a MAJOR damage buff (to make it more like a proper snipe) but I thing it should have a longer cast time to balance. Basically so you can’t stack snipes before the 1st one lands.
It should be a high damage, long range, and precision skill that can kill a player very fast. Not something that you stack in midair in 1 target.

For the salty ones here are some counters to snipe:
-dodge roll (it’s super effective!)
-cloak
-damage shields
-block

Any other ideas on making snipe a proper sniping tool?

redesign the skill so it takes brain cells to use and i be open for a discussion

ThePhantomThorn

chris211 wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Don’t get me wrong I like sniping and think it’s a valid play style but we need to make it more like a snipe
Less like a spammable, glitchy mediocre damage skill

So first I think that it needs a MAJOR damage buff (to make it more like a proper snipe) but I thing it should have a longer cast time to balance. Basically so you can’t stack snipes before the 1st one lands.
It should be a high damage, long range, and precision skill that can kill a player very fast. Not something that you stack in midair in 1 target.

For the salty ones here are some counters to snipe:
-dodge roll (it’s super effective!)
-cloak
-damage shields
-block

Any other ideas on making snipe a proper sniping tool?

redesign the skill so it takes brain cells to use and i be open for a discussion

Brain cells?
Question 1: what is the average size of group in cyro?
Question 2: does spamming attacks in previously mentioned groups size take more brain cells than escaping from said groups on a super squishy build?

ThePhantomThorn

Ok so I’m going to quickly do a kinda recap post

So far a pretty good idea is having 1 morph a spammable with a short (like .8 sec) cast time with similar damage to dizzy swing.
The other morph would have a longer cast time (like 1.5 - 2 sec) but higher damage ( maybe a 20% - 30% buff from current damage)

The pulling out of stealth thing is a matter of debate. It would make the 10% increase wd from the master assassin passive completely useless and would screw up close range ganks. Need some ideas for this
Edit: just had idea
What if the snipe projectile was more visible? Something like c-shards (the other morph of c-frags) is a little easier to see

Ill quickly just say that the snipe desync MUST be fixed tho with the increase cast time it would stop so many snipes being stacked up on 1 player at once.

IamDestiny

There are already too many noobs playing snipe. No thank you.

Snipe hits hard as it is you dont need a damage buff on it.
Usually those snipe noobs sit in the back of a zerg or xv1.

Snipe needs a damage nerf if we are on it. It does more damage than dizzy on pts and can be spammed from distance.

ThePhantomThorn

IamDestiny wrote: »

There are already too many noobs playing snipe. No thank you.

Snipe hits hard as it is you dont need a damage buff on it.
Usually those snipe noobs sit in the back of a zerg or xv1.

Snipe needs a damage nerf if we are on it. It does more damage than dizzy on pts and can be spammed from distance.

Couldn’t be spammed with the proposed cast time increase
And any1 xv1ning on a ganker is just a zergling
Good gankers do 1 or 2 snipes into a PI or Crossbow

cmvet

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Don’t get me wrong I like sniping and think it’s a valid play style but we need to make it more like a snipe
Less like a spammable, glitchy mediocre damage skill

So first I think that it needs a MAJOR damage buff (to make it more like a proper snipe) but I thing it should have a longer cast time to balance. Basically so you can’t stack snipes before the 1st one lands.
It should be a high damage, long range, and precision skill that can kill a player very fast. Not something that you stack in midair in 1 target.

For the salty ones here are some counters to snipe:
-dodge roll (it’s super effective!)
-cloak
-damage shields
-block

Any other ideas on making snipe a proper sniping tool?


Edit: post at bottom covering all ideas so easier to read

So my first thought is that if you are on a snipe build and you still think it is a mediocre damage skill, you must not be building it correct. When I played my snipe build, I routinely had 16-18k crits on light armor toons, and 9-11k on non tank heavy/medium builds. Built right, and away from the spam spam spam play style, you can hit hella hard with it. It really does not need a damge buff, but it could use a timer/cool down to prevent the spam style range, cloak, de-sync issue.

ThePhantomThorn

cmvet wrote: »

ThePhantomThorn wrote: »

Don’t get me wrong I like sniping and think it’s a valid play style but we need to make it more like a snipe
Less like a spammable, glitchy mediocre damage skill

So first I think that it needs a MAJOR damage buff (to make it more like a proper snipe) but I thing it should have a longer cast time to balance. Basically so you can’t stack snipes before the 1st one lands.
It should be a high damage, long range, and precision skill that can kill a player very fast. Not something that you stack in midair in 1 target.

For the salty ones here are some counters to snipe:
-dodge roll (it’s super effective!)
-cloak
-damage shields
-block

Any other ideas on making snipe a proper sniping tool?


Edit: post at bottom covering all ideas so easier to read

So my first thought is that if you are on a snipe build and you still think it is a mediocre damage skill, you must not be building it correct. When I played my snipe build, I routinely had 16-18k crits on light armor toons, and 9-11k on non tank heavy/medium builds. Built right, and away from the spam spam spam play style, you can hit hella hard with it. It really does not need a damge buff, but it could use a timer/cool down to prevent the spam style range, cloak, de-sync issue.

I’m not hitting low damage. Hitting good numbers (for current patch) but this change is more so you could not stack multiple snipes before the 1st 1 hits
Anyway you are aware that those numbers were pre elsweyr?
They made it less damage and more spammy

MurderMostFoul

Really, fix the desync and it would be fine.

It feels unbalanced because many players build their entire character around taking advantage of this glitch. Fix the desynchronization and all those snipe abusers will have to figure out something else to use. Usage we'll go down, unfair instant deaths will go down, and snipe will feel more in line with the other spammable - present but not broken.

Blinkin8r

I think snipe is fine as it is. I haven't been desynced by snipe a single time since Scalebreaker dropped. If someone starts snipe spamming me I know I need to dodge and pop my hots and now I have time to do so. The only skills that Desync or are just incredibly inconsistent and buggy are Ballista and Meteor. Ballista's desync is horrible. Meteor is just a huge question mark, "I blocked the visual impact I'm good." 20 seconds later getting bounced up in the air and instant killed isn't cool.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

It’s fine. I can’t even remember the last time I died to it. On the flip side of that, I’ve used it as well, usually only when doing a keep defense and outnumbered to kill people on trebs and such. Outside of that I feel it’s niche. It’s not bad or good. It has its pros and cons as it should. People who get ganked by it need to pay attention better. I wouldn’t be opposed to the idea of breaking stealth when casting it but I don’t think it should break cloak. Though maybe that’s what people are actually mad about?

MurderMostFoul

Blinkin8r wrote: »

I think snipe is fine as it is. I haven't been desynced by snipe a single time since Scalebreaker dropped. If someone starts snipe spamming me I know I need to dodge and pop my hots and now I have time to do so. The only skills that Desync or are just incredibly inconsistent and buggy are Ballista and Meteor. Ballista's desync is horrible. Meteor is just a huge question mark, "I blocked the visual impact I'm good." 20 seconds later getting bounced up in the air and instant killed isn't cool.

It still desyncs a lot.

In BGs, with lower health and less defense, when you're already taking damage from other sources and two 6K Snipes hit you simultaneously from a single player, it often leads to an unearned kill. It's this scenario that makes the skill broken and in need of fixing.

ThePhantomThorn

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

Blinkin8r wrote: »

I think snipe is fine as it is. I haven't been desynced by snipe a single time since Scalebreaker dropped. If someone starts snipe spamming me I know I need to dodge and pop my hots and now I have time to do so. The only skills that Desync or are just incredibly inconsistent and buggy are Ballista and Meteor. Ballista's desync is horrible. Meteor is just a huge question mark, "I blocked the visual impact I'm good." 20 seconds later getting bounced up in the air and instant killed isn't cool.

It still desyncs a lot.

In BGs, with lower health and less defense, when you're already taking damage from other sources and two 6K Snipes hit you simultaneously from a single player, it often leads to an unearned kill. It's this scenario that makes the skill broken and in need of fixing.

6k? In bgs I hit 9k on tanky targets