Personally very happy with the changes, good work ZOS

BloodMagicLord

I'm sure I can't be the only one who was tired of constant, ridiculous levels of power creep.
The once formidable vMoL being nuked on the third platform is a pretty good summary of this game's problem.

Once you had to build somewhat defensively to survive, even on a DD. Defensive ultimates were needed. DDs were happy with 30-40k parses, not ridiculous levels like 100k. In short, there was some strategy instead of everything simply being reliant on your DPS ePeen.
Most endgame content in the game is a joke now.
People will cry that their build is being nerfed and that their beloved DPS numbers are gonna be trashed, but honestly who cares. These people are a vocal minority of the population. If they want to throw a tantrum and quit rather than adapt to the changes, fine. They will be replaced by new players in time. It's been the same story ever since the sustain nerfs in Morrowind. "These changes will kill the game, my entire guild has quit the game, raiding is dead", and yet here we still are.

This game has seen so much power creep that it is barely recognizable. ZOS either had to do this, or massively buff most endgame content to make up for past power creep. Honestly I prefer the latter option but this is almost as good.
Every patch we have these salty tears and it's kinda getting boring now.
It's time to stop the hysteria.

JAwtunes

Correct.

Cadbury

daedalusAI

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

I'm sure I can't be the only one who was tired of constant, ridiculous levels of power creep.
The once formidable vMoL being nuked on the third platform is a pretty good summary of this game's problem.

Once you had to build somewhat defensively to survive, even on a DD. Defensive ultimates were needed. DDs were happy with 30-40k parses, not ridiculous levels like 100k. In short, there was some strategy instead of everything simply being reliant on your DPS ePeen.
Most endgame content in the game is a joke now.
People will cry that their build is being nerfed and that their beloved DPS numbers are gonna be trashed, but honestly who cares. These people are a vocal minority of the population. If they want to throw a tantrum and quit rather than adapt to the changes, fine. They will be replaced by new players in time. It's been the same story ever since the sustain nerfs in Morrowind. "These changes will kill the game, my entire guild has quit the game, raiding is dead", and yet here we still are.

This game has seen so much power creep that it is barely recognizable. ZOS either had to do this, or massively buff most endgame content to make up for past power creep. Honestly I prefer the latter option but this is almost as good.
Every patch we have these salty tears and it's kinda getting boring now.
It's time to stop the hysteria.

Without evidence about how people "crying" are just "a vocal minority" your rambling is nothing but air, a sad attempt as discrediting criticism.

People won't be replaced by new players, as current players who dislikes the constant cycle of "Patch 1: buff A massively; Patch 2: nerf A massively" swings with a clear lack of purpose or scope won't recommend this game.

Interesting: so ZOS has to do this to combat power creep, which they themselves introduced, e.g. 2.5x DoT scaling with U23 and have been warned during U23 PTS and all the time leading up to U24?

Who is this "we" you use?

Royalthought

Some people just don't get "it."

You're talking about some ideology of power creep. The new dev team already has given the biggest buffs and then the biggest nerfs back to back. The buffs weren't celebrated either.

If you want to know why people are considering getting out.

Imagine being in a car. 1st driver doing the speed limit along the normal route gets out. A new driver gets in a does 100 mph through a park to 10 mph on the sidewalk. you get out, not because the speed got nerfed, but because you don't trust the driver.

Most people want the game to succeed. But right now it's not a great time to be invested in it.

Tannus15

This is funny because I was here for the morrowind nerfs, and I'm still here now. I didn't cry that the sky was falling with Morrowind, I ran a sustain set.

The current PTS is nothing like the morrowind nerfs.

"Adapting" as you put it is to cut your rotation down to as little as possible. the best build I can find is to run a spammable, a backbar ground dot for the enchant, trap/accelerate for minor force, and an execute if you've got it. For the rest of your skills just stack anything with passives.

This build has very high resource drain and will punish you for a lower la/s ratio.

This is not an enjoyable way to play. The current live "dot" meta is stupid. This is worse. This is the most bland, boring combat you could possibly imgaine.

mague

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

It's time to stop the hysteria.

It is quite easy, just like the triangle sliders at the character creation. Just here the cornerstones are survivability, damage and sustain. Everything has to fit into this triangle. You can be medium or specialist in something. Like New Moon Acolyte has only crit, pen and damage with some negative sustain and no pool at all.

As long as everything fits the triangle the devs are able to create many different sets/build blocks.



So yeah, let them do their job and just kick their shin when they fail to deliver content.

CipherNine

another total bs post by a ZOS apologist fanboy.

If end game is so easy, post screenshots of your end game achievements and no I dont mean normal. I mean vet and hm achieves.

Go ahead cause I just think this is another person talking *** about content they dont even do and just saying its easy and using buzz words like like power creep nonsense.

mikemacon

Bingo.

I agree with OP 1,000,000,000%.

Due to the meteoric rise in DPS capability resulting in epically absurd damage numbers, many people have become positively terrified of mechanics and engaging the content the way it was actually designed and the way the devs intended.

BloodMagicLord

CipherNine wrote: »

another total bs post by a ZOS apologist fanboy.

If end game is so easy, post screenshots of your end game achievements and no I dont mean normal. I mean vet and hm achieves.

Go ahead cause I just think this is another person talking *** about content they dont even do and just saying its easy and using buzz words like like power creep nonsense.

Been raiding since 2016, boy.

CleymenZero

daedalusAI wrote: »

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

I'm sure I can't be the only one who was tired of constant, ridiculous levels of power creep.
The once formidable vMoL being nuked on the third platform is a pretty good summary of this game's problem.

Once you had to build somewhat defensively to survive, even on a DD. Defensive ultimates were needed. DDs were happy with 30-40k parses, not ridiculous levels like 100k. In short, there was some strategy instead of everything simply being reliant on your DPS ePeen.
Most endgame content in the game is a joke now.
People will cry that their build is being nerfed and that their beloved DPS numbers are gonna be trashed, but honestly who cares. These people are a vocal minority of the population. If they want to throw a tantrum and quit rather than adapt to the changes, fine. They will be replaced by new players in time. It's been the same story ever since the sustain nerfs in Morrowind. "These changes will kill the game, my entire guild has quit the game, raiding is dead", and yet here we still are.

This game has seen so much power creep that it is barely recognizable. ZOS either had to do this, or massively buff most endgame content to make up for past power creep. Honestly I prefer the latter option but this is almost as good.
Every patch we have these salty tears and it's kinda getting boring now.
It's time to stop the hysteria.

Without evidence about how people "crying" are just "a vocal minority" your rambling is nothing but air, a sad attempt as discrediting criticism.

People won't be replaced by new players, as current players who dislikes the constant cycle of "Patch 1: buff A massively; Patch 2: nerf A massively" swings with a clear lack of purpose or scope won't recommend this game.

Interesting: so ZOS has to do this to combat power creep, which they themselves introduced, e.g. 2.5x DoT scaling with U23 and have been warned during U23 PTS and all the time leading up to U24?

Who is this "we" you use?

Amen!!!!

The power creep problem has been going for years the thing OP doesn't seem to see at all is, what he thinks is power creeps are buffs actively put in there by the Devs over the years. People that think that CPs are the sole culprits of power creep are missing so much of the equation it's crazy.

And honestly, the method of massively buffing everything then needing everything the next patch is bewildering. It drives confusion.

I think buffs over the years were made so that less talented players could clear end game content. Now you'll see these small less hardcore guilds complain of being unable to clear vMoL etc

Why don't you reset all titles while being at it? I mean, they got their titles during a time where everything was erroneously buffed and won't necessarily be able to clear stuff now.

Idk, I've completed all HM trials cept for Sunspire because I had already started giving up on the game. This is just the coup de grace, it's the nail in the coffin not because my DPS will go from 90k to 70k but because those recent ups and downs show a complete lack of direction. I'll come back when the dev team have a clear idea of where they want to go.

CipherNine

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

another total bs post by a ZOS apologist fanboy.

If end game is so easy, post screenshots of your end game achievements and no I dont mean normal. I mean vet and hm achieves.

Go ahead cause I just think this is another person talking *** about content they dont even do and just saying its easy and using buzz words like like power creep nonsense.

Been raiding since 2016, boy.

uh huh sure whatever. I have been playing since beta...so what?

Now to what actually matters other than just "been raiding since 2016"
Where is your proof? where is the screenshots of your vet and hm achievs?

CleymenZero

I would sincerely prefer the damage to stay as is but to create new difficulty levels of dungeons and trials. There would be normal, veteran and expert. With these nerfs vet Fungal Grotto will remain a meme but with an insanely difficult expert mode, you'd struggle in there again. There could even be a ranking system. The expert mode would also grant greater rewards and additional titles for no death, speed run and HM in one shot. Another interesting feature in expert mode would be ads and bosses teabagging you after destroying your team.


Nerfs are only going to fix part of your problem buffs followed by Nerfs followed by Nerfs etc. will only push your user base away.

mikemacon

LOL.

Ah, yes. The old “if you’re saying the game wasn’t in fact designed to require burning down bosses with stratospherically high DPS numbers, what you’re saying is that it’s easy and anyone can do it with minimal effort” argument.

Endgame activities of any kind, especially hard modes, are never going to be “easy”. That’s not the argument, son.

What we’re saying is that the whole “ZOMG THE SKY IS FALLING WE LITERALLY CAN’T DO THIS WITHOUT ABSURDLY HIGH NUMBERS ZOMG AH AH AAAAAAHHHHH!!” hysterics and histrionics miss the entire point that the devs did not in fact design this content to “require” 100k+ DPS.

It is grindingly apparent that instead, the “endgame” “community” hasn’t yet figured out how to approach/engage these encounters as designed and as intended and so are relying exclusively on the “nuke it! nuke it! kill it with fire!!” crutch.

BloodMagicLord

CipherNine wrote: »

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

another total bs post by a ZOS apologist fanboy.

If end game is so easy, post screenshots of your end game achievements and no I dont mean normal. I mean vet and hm achieves.

Go ahead cause I just think this is another person talking *** about content they dont even do and just saying its easy and using buzz words like like power creep nonsense.

Been raiding since 2016, boy.

uh huh sure whatever. I have been playing since beta...so what?

Now to what actually matters other than just "been raiding since 2016"
Where is your proof? where is the screenshots of your vet and hm achievs?

I honestly don't feel the need to spend even a minute of my life screenshotting things because some angry guy on the forums asked me to. Everyone I am friends with knows that I have been raiding for a long time and that's all I really care about. You're a nobody to me and I don't want, or need, to prove anything to you.

Azyle1

OP is just bad at the game and couldn't hit 100k dps confirmed?

CipherNine

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

CipherNine wrote: »

another total bs post by a ZOS apologist fanboy.

If end game is so easy, post screenshots of your end game achievements and no I dont mean normal. I mean vet and hm achieves.

Go ahead cause I just think this is another person talking *** about content they dont even do and just saying its easy and using buzz words like like power creep nonsense.

Been raiding since 2016, boy.

uh huh sure whatever. I have been playing since beta...so what?

Now to what actually matters other than just "been raiding since 2016"
Where is your proof? where is the screenshots of your vet and hm achievs?

I honestly don't feel the need to spend even a minute of my life screenshotting things because some angry guy on the forums asked me to. Everyone I am friends with knows that I have been raiding for a long time and that's all I really care about. You're a nobody to me and I don't want, or need, to prove anything to you.

righhttt so just more hot air from someone saying power creep this blah blah blah. dps too high blah bah blah.

If its end game is so easy where is all the players running around with hm achievs? where is all the godslayers?

BloodMagicLord

CleymenZero wrote: »

I would sincerely prefer the damage to stay as is but to create new difficulty levels of dungeons and trials. There would be normal, veteran and expert. With these nerfs vet Fungal Grotto will remain a meme but with an insanely difficult expert mode, you'd struggle in there again. There could even be a ranking system. The expert mode would also grant greater rewards and additional titles for no death, speed run and HM in one shot. Another interesting feature in expert mode would be ads and bosses teabagging you after destroying your team.


Nerfs are only going to fix part of your problem buffs followed by Nerfs followed by Nerfs etc. will only push your user base away.

I could get on board with that solution, definitely.

Hanokihs

You know what? I'm happy with the changes too!

It's allowed me a chance to play many different, better games that aren't confused about how they want to balance themselves, and aren't forcing me to regrind half my characters every X weeks because my more interesting, niche builds are no longer unique in identity, viable for the content they were designed for, or fun in any capacity.

So thanks, ZoS! By making me want to log in only to collect daily rewards and hireling mats, you've freed up my after-work schedule beyond my wildest imaginings! I owe the dev team my undying gratitude.

BloodMagicLord

Azyle1 wrote: »

OP is just bad at the game and couldn't hit 100k dps confirmed?

I'm a tank.

BloodMagicLord

Hanokihs wrote: »

You know what? I'm happy with the changes too!

It's allowed me a chance to play many different, better games that aren't confused about how they want to balance themselves, and aren't forcing me to regrind half my characters every X weeks because my more interesting, niche builds are no longer unique in identity, viable for the content they were designed for, or fun in any capacity.

So thanks, ZoS! By making me want to log in only to collect daily rewards and hireling mats, you've freed up my after-work schedule beyond my wildest imaginings! I owe the dev team my undying gratitude.

Oh no.

Qbiken

What people fail to often realise is that the ones who caused the PvE power creep (usually the few individuals that can truly call themself part of the endgame PvE community) aren´t the ones who will feel most affected by this DPS decrease.

The ones who´ll really notice it are the mid-tier/progression players that already might struggle to reach these astronomic numbers we see on live.

And usually the reason why old content "feels like a joke" is mostly due to people getting accustomed to the content itself (aka practice makes perfect), and not because of "Power creep", even tho it´s undeniable that it has an effect on older content.

BloodMagicLord

Qbiken wrote: »

What people fail to often realise is that the ones who caused the PvE power creep (usually the few individuals that can truly call themself part of the endgame PvE community) aren´t the ones who will feel most affected by this DPS decrease.

The ones who´ll really notice it are the mid-tier/progression players that already might struggle to reach these astronomic numbers we see on live.

And usually the reason why old content "feels like a joke" is mostly due to people getting accustomed to the content itself (aka practice makes perfect), and not because of "Power creep", even tho it´s undeniable that it has an effect on older content.

I think that DPS output increasing by about 200% since vmol came out probably did have an effect on it, yes.

DeCarn

I think the changes are good, me and my friend were doing skyreach cacatombs yesterday and each one of us was getting 80,000 dps+ at the bossfight near the chest with the meat astronachs, I don't want the game to be like this in this endgame contents so I think this is a good change

Juhasow

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

I'm sure I can't be the only one who was tired of constant, ridiculous levels of power creep.
The once formidable vMoL being nuked on the third platform is a pretty good summary of this game's problem.

Once you had to build somewhat defensively to survive, even on a DD. Defensive ultimates were needed. DDs were happy with 30-40k parses, not ridiculous levels like 100k. In short, there was some strategy instead of everything simply being reliant on your DPS ePeen.
Most endgame content in the game is a joke now.
People will cry that their build is being nerfed and that their beloved DPS numbers are gonna be trashed, but honestly who cares. These people are a vocal minority of the population. If they want to throw a tantrum and quit rather than adapt to the changes, fine. They will be replaced by new players in time. It's been the same story ever since the sustain nerfs in Morrowind. "These changes will kill the game, my entire guild has quit the game, raiding is dead", and yet here we still are.

This game has seen so much power creep that it is barely recognizable. ZOS either had to do this, or massively buff most endgame content to make up for past power creep. Honestly I prefer the latter option but this is almost as good.
Every patch we have these salty tears and it's kinda getting boring now.
It's time to stop the hysteria.

It's still possible to reach 85k DPS on trial dummy on PTS which is more then enough to still nuke through most of the stuff. Dont try to demonize game end players because most of them is fine with lowering down currently high DPS numbers. Problem is that because right now tooltips of direct dmg abilities will be so close to the DoTs tooltips then rotations will become way less important thus game will simply become boring. Power creep will still be there but it'll be way easier to achieve for everyone because braindead spam of 1 button will place You only slightly behind dynamic multi abilities rotation. And funnily enough light attack weaving will be even more important now then it was so no free pass for lazy people.

CleymenZero

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

OP is just bad at the game and couldn't hit 100k dps confirmed?

I'm a tank.

So... You're a tank and you're ok with DPS balancing becoming aimless and alienating to DPS mains?

I'm not discrediting your entire post based on that only but I find your opinion weighs less. I'm not going to chime in with my lordly opinions on tanks matter because I don't main tank. I'm still gonna have an opinion it's just that... I'm not the target demographic so I wouldn't feel correct in having a very firm stance on something that doesn't concern me.

Sure, you're ok with the changes since you don't have to maintain engulfing flames in raid anymore because you need 300 spell damage per % to reach the 10% so you'll be slotting a skill for a 4% fire damage increase... Which is not worth it anymore, might as well include a magDK in the raid team now.

All I'm saying is, you don't care that they're raising taxes for those who make 150k a year because you only make 50k. That's alright... But we're still getting hit.

If I'm going to struggle in vMoL again (cleared when I was CP 500 or so and barely knew what I was doing and that was a few months after Morrowind landed) I'd like it to be because they made a new extra painful mode. I'm tired of the: slight buff x 6 patches then massive nerf then slight bug x 5 patches then massive nerf. Make up your mind, make new content or new difficulties, don't make me do a pointless ride and overhaul the game twice in 4 months....

I think what you see as people crying about the changes is more like people that can't express what they think properly. I think power creep is a problem but design-wise, buffing the enemies is more fun than nerfing players.

SeaUnicorn

Juhasow wrote: »

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

I'm sure I can't be the only one who was tired of constant, ridiculous levels of power creep.
The once formidable vMoL being nuked on the third platform is a pretty good summary of this game's problem.

Once you had to build somewhat defensively to survive, even on a DD. Defensive ultimates were needed. DDs were happy with 30-40k parses, not ridiculous levels like 100k. In short, there was some strategy instead of everything simply being reliant on your DPS ePeen.
Most endgame content in the game is a joke now.
People will cry that their build is being nerfed and that their beloved DPS numbers are gonna be trashed, but honestly who cares. These people are a vocal minority of the population. If they want to throw a tantrum and quit rather than adapt to the changes, fine. They will be replaced by new players in time. It's been the same story ever since the sustain nerfs in Morrowind. "These changes will kill the game, my entire guild has quit the game, raiding is dead", and yet here we still are.

This game has seen so much power creep that it is barely recognizable. ZOS either had to do this, or massively buff most endgame content to make up for past power creep. Honestly I prefer the latter option but this is almost as good.
Every patch we have these salty tears and it's kinda getting boring now.
It's time to stop the hysteria.

It's still possible to reach 85k DPS on trial dummy on PTS which is more then enough to still nuke through most of the stuff. Dont try to demonize game end players because most of them is fine with lowering down currently high DPS numbers. Problem is that because right now tooltips of direct dmg abilities will be so close to the DoTs tooltips then rotations will become way less important thus game will simply become boring. Power creep will still be there but it'll be way easier to achieve for everyone because braindead spam of 1 button will place You only slightly behind dynamic multi abilities rotation. And funnily enough light attack weaving will be even more important now then it was.

Show us your parse of 85K on a trial dummy and your 3 pad vMOL HM...
I spent countless hour practicing my rotations on live and my teammates too. Only one of the 8 DPS on the team was able to hit 100K on their stamcro, the rest were hovering at about 75-90K on a trial dummy. And even with that kind of DPS we still struggle to complete vMOL HM. vSS HM clear is out of our reach and forget about achievements like god slayer and griffin heart. We are above average end game players, because on the ESO logs we sit somewhere in 70 and above percentile. ZOS nerfs are oriented at 2 elite end game teams. Its just 24 or so people as compared to hundreds of the average players who get punished.

mcagatayg

I agree nerfs were needed. But they nerfed the wrong things. Sure DoTs were overperforming but now they made DoTs completely obsolete. We need a nerf to overall everything. Not just dots.

karekiz

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

The once formidable vMoL being nuked on the third platform is a pretty good summary of this game's problem.

Hoooray for balancing for year old raid content that those "Upper end" people you talk about have done to death, and honestly don't care too much about other than leaderboards <For which they will still end up burning on pads anyway>. hooooray for balance.

You want power creep reduced by nerfing skills?

Were going to be doing this EXACT song and dance in two years. They sell expansions by introducing power creep. If its between selling an expansion or introducing new best "X" set here, you better believe they don't care if you burn old content. Sales far outweigh that.

VampiricByNature

I left the game for a different one after Morrowind. [It wasn't the sustain nerds, I just needed a break.]

There IS power creep. I returned for Elsywre.

Not even 2 years after my break the same mechanics/methods I learned are almost gone. On Vet AA everyone stacks behind the boss instead of spreading out like a clock. On Vet Hel Ra HM we only kill a couple of sets of gargoyles and then the off tank kites the rest. Before, we had a whole pattern and method to kill the gargoyles. In Vmaw we don't have dk chainers anymore because there are never that many add phases. Rakhat? We never see lunar.

That being said, I'm a ps4 console mediocre player. I participate in several progressions a week in 3 guilds and usually do not complete the dlc trial we attempt. Most of us are 70-80k on the trial dummy. I'm the sort of player who just wants to attempt each trial when it's the weekly with some semblance of hope that we might get done. I don't just chase a skin and I don't care if I dont finish every run. But we are struggling to do each dlc trial without hm factored in- I'm afraid this nerf will regress a lot of the progress we have worked on since Sunspire came out.

Davadin

Azyle1 wrote: »

OP is just bad at the game and couldn't hit 100k dps confirmed?

christ, u need 100k to play the game as intended?

BloodMagicLord wrote: »

I'm sure I can't be the only one who was tired of constant, ridiculous levels of power creep.
The once formidable vMoL being nuked on the third platform is a pretty good summary of this game's problem.

Once you had to build somewhat defensively to survive, even on a DD. Defensive ultimates were needed. DDs were happy with 30-40k parses, not ridiculous levels like 100k. In short, there was some strategy instead of everything simply being reliant on your DPS ePeen.
Most endgame content in the game is a joke now.
People will cry that their build is being nerfed and that their beloved DPS numbers are gonna be trashed, but honestly who cares. These people are a vocal minority of the population. If they want to throw a tantrum and quit rather than adapt to the changes, fine. They will be replaced by new players in time. It's been the same story ever since the sustain nerfs in Morrowind. "These changes will kill the game, my entire guild has quit the game, raiding is dead", and yet here we still are.

This game has seen so much power creep that it is barely recognizable. ZOS either had to do this, or massively buff most endgame content to make up for past power creep. Honestly I prefer the latter option but this is almost as good.
Every patch we have these salty tears and it's kinda getting boring now.
It's time to stop the hysteria.

agree, buuuuuuuuut..................


what am i gonna do with my PvP StamDK now?


literally, i can only throw rocks at my enemies. why bother with DoTs after the nerf, or burst after what they did to Dizzying?

I'm not bitter at you, OP, just honest question, what can i do with my stamDK?