Reflective Plate

Sanguinor2

Stebarnz wrote: »

Ive tried to explain why it was changed but people refuse to listen.

'I hear you... but old wings will never come back as it countered an entire type of game play and a type that is very popular - the stealth rogue arrow from stealth/snipe spam whatever you wanna call it.

I played that style to test and I don't like it but a LOT do and wings basically was 100 % counter, pack up your s*** and leave.

There has to be a middle ground, like someone mentioned deflect, or something similar to templar bubble, Its useless as is and needs a buff but its never coming back, ZOS wont let it as it deletes the hugely popular NB rogue / assassin / dark brotherhood kind of play on which they sell a ton of their games.'

No other class skill does what wings did, hence it was changed, IT WAS CHANGED BADLY AND THEY NEED TO REWORK!, just incase people don't understand my thoughts / opinion.

Yeah I agree that it wont come back. Sorcs and Nb screams would be too loud. Dks (me included) made alternative suggestions to what we have now but all we got in return was more screeching of sorcs and nbs so thats why we still are at the might aswell unslot 5 years of dk identity stage.

Stebarnz

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Ive tried to explain why it was changed but people refuse to listen.

'I hear you... but old wings will never come back as it countered an entire type of game play and a type that is very popular - the stealth rogue arrow from stealth/snipe spam whatever you wanna call it.

I played that style to test and I don't like it but a LOT do and wings basically was 100 % counter, pack up your s*** and leave.

There has to be a middle ground, like someone mentioned deflect, or something similar to templar bubble, Its useless as is and needs a buff but its never coming back, ZOS wont let it as it deletes the hugely popular NB rogue / assassin / dark brotherhood kind of play on which they sell a ton of their games.'

No other class skill does what wings did, hence it was changed, IT WAS CHANGED BADLY AND THEY NEED TO REWORK!, just incase people don't understand my thoughts / opinion.

Yeah I agree that it wont come back. Sorcs and Nb screams would be too loud. Dks (me included) made alternative suggestions to what we have now but all we got in return was more screeching of sorcs and nbs so thats why we still are at the might aswell unslot 5 years of dk identity stage.

If you 'main' one class you will never have a neutral POV, try playing other classes, and I mean all of them, a lot, and then think about what you are asking for.
The reason it wont come back is that it was over performing! nothing to do with screeches or screams.
The reason unlimited streaks wont come back, it was over performing.
The reason whirlwind execute damage wont comeback, it was over performing.
There are a few skills that need changing/buffing/nerfing but ZOS are not very good and tend to over cook it either way because they don't listen or play their own game. They think about $$$ first.

Sanguinor2

Stebarnz wrote: »

If you 'main' one class you will never have a neutral POV, try playing other classes, and I mean all of them, a lot, and then think about what you are asking for.
The reason it wont come back is that it was over performing! nothing to do with screeches or screams.
The reason unlimited streaks wont come back, it was over performing.
The reason whirlwind execute damage wont comeback, it was over performing.
There are a few skills that need changing/buffing/nerfing but ZOS are not very good and tend to over cook it either way because they don't listen or play their own game. They think about $$$ first.

There is no neutral POV and everyone trying to tell you that they have one is lying in your face. Humans are Always biased in some way by their experiences. My main is magplar btw not dk, dk is my secondary class, I also have every class except for magden and magcro.
Zos does not strictly balance depending on Performance of an ability, they balance on what they think would be a good Addition or in some cases uproars, incap Unbreakable silence and Shield cast times were swiftly forgotten after enough outcry for example.
But yeah dk wings were too strong in cases of ranged 1v1s and too weak in cases of ranged 1vX, some middleground wouldve been the best solution for wings imo but that ship has sailed for the next 2 years or something if I were to guess.

Neoauspex

This skill was very strong when fighting ranged attackers and completely worthless when fighting melee. That's how skills should be: situational. There should be counters for everything so that all skills don't have to be variations on the same damage/cost/cast time/secondary effect math formula. Removing all the skills and sets that directly counter specific things is why we have these wild swings in rebalancing every patch.

It was a better environment when build choices mattered more: Shields are your only defense? You're going to perform exceptionally well until you run into somebody with Shield Breaker. Magblades don't want to run Concealed Weapon/Soul Assault? Ok then you're going to have trouble with DKs. DOTS are too strong? Introduce a set that punishes people for using too many dots (even though there's already a bunch that auto cleanse them). Right now the environment is just find the most overpowered skill and spam it until they nerf it next patch/repeat.

Stebarnz

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

If you 'main' one class you will never have a neutral POV, try playing other classes, and I mean all of them, a lot, and then think about what you are asking for.
The reason it wont come back is that it was over performing! nothing to do with screeches or screams.
The reason unlimited streaks wont come back, it was over performing.
The reason whirlwind execute damage wont comeback, it was over performing.
There are a few skills that need changing/buffing/nerfing but ZOS are not very good and tend to over cook it either way because they don't listen or play their own game. They think about $$$ first.

There is no neutral POV and everyone trying to tell you that they have one is lying in your face. Humans are Always biased in some way by their experiences. My main is magplar btw not dk, dk is my secondary class, I also have every class except for magden and magcro.
Zos does not strictly balance depending on Performance of an ability, they balance on what they think would be a good Addition or in some cases uproars, incap Unbreakable silence and Shield cast times were swiftly forgotten after enough outcry for example.
But yeah dk wings were too strong in cases of ranged 1v1s and too weak in cases of ranged 1vX, some middleground wouldve been the best solution for wings imo but that ship has sailed for the next 2 years or something if I were to guess.

I have a neutral pov, and yes zos balance around fotm but they are bad at it and yes I agree with the wings comment.

Rave the Histborn

Stebarnz wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Stebarnz you clown.....
Every other class got their OP abilities nerfed but then ZOS reverted the nerfs.

With DK they just deleted the ability.
All Wings needed was a fatigue addition to prevent magDK from shutting down noobs that didnt want to use other tools except for projectiles.

But no... the iconic ability that both stamDK and magDK used got removed.
So get lost with your arguments and go play your ez mode ESO class.



I havent spend a dollar ever since they did that. Im sure DKs main are doing the same

Pffff! do one you bell end!

If you cant adjust and think that wings was the only thing that made DK viable then thats your problem!

I still play DK and do well, not as well as I used to when it was a stronger class but still ok.

I just said wings should be altered as they have made it a non existent skill but I don't work at zos, all I know it was overperforming and they changed it to where it was under performing.

Also I said I play EVERY class and EVERY class has its glory days, DK is in a trough at the min that's all, it will change.

If you are currently unhappy with DK performance then you are really gonna be negged out if the next patch currently on PTS goes live! GL with that!

The only thing that made stamDK viable was SnB/2h 7th Fury BS which I didnt use.
Wings was a beautiful and strong skill that as a stamDK could use once in a while.
The ability was not nerfed. It was deleted. Do you understand that?

I don't know if I understand... wait a minute I think I said they made it a non existent skill, let me check...……… yes, yes I did!

Also I think I said wings was over used by the majority that's why they changed it, let me check...……. yes, yes I said that too!

Reading is great!

DK has a couple of skills that need looking at and changing, wings is definitely one of them!

"Over used"

So they should take out all the long range attacks for sorcs, jabs away from templars, cloak away from night blades, and dive away from wardens then right? Those skills lead to "toxic playstyles" and everyone uses them, so why are they still there?

regime211

It's easy for people to say " learn and adapt" when its

1. A class you hardly play.
2. A class you struggled against because of wings.
3. Because your class did not take a huge nerf like this.

Stebarnz

Rave the Histborn wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Stebarnz you clown.....
Every other class got their OP abilities nerfed but then ZOS reverted the nerfs.

With DK they just deleted the ability.
All Wings needed was a fatigue addition to prevent magDK from shutting down noobs that didnt want to use other tools except for projectiles.

But no... the iconic ability that both stamDK and magDK used got removed.
So get lost with your arguments and go play your ez mode ESO class.



I havent spend a dollar ever since they did that. Im sure DKs main are doing the same

Pffff! do one you bell end!

If you cant adjust and think that wings was the only thing that made DK viable then thats your problem!

I still play DK and do well, not as well as I used to when it was a stronger class but still ok.

I just said wings should be altered as they have made it a non existent skill but I don't work at zos, all I know it was overperforming and they changed it to where it was under performing.

Also I said I play EVERY class and EVERY class has its glory days, DK is in a trough at the min that's all, it will change.

If you are currently unhappy with DK performance then you are really gonna be negged out if the next patch currently on PTS goes live! GL with that!

The only thing that made stamDK viable was SnB/2h 7th Fury BS which I didnt use.
Wings was a beautiful and strong skill that as a stamDK could use once in a while.
The ability was not nerfed. It was deleted. Do you understand that?

I don't know if I understand... wait a minute I think I said they made it a non existent skill, let me check...……… yes, yes I did!

Also I think I said wings was over used by the majority that's why they changed it, let me check...……. yes, yes I said that too!

Reading is great!

DK has a couple of skills that need looking at and changing, wings is definitely one of them!

"Over used"

So they should take out all the long range attacks for sorcs, jabs away from templars, cloak away from night blades, and dive away from wardens then right? Those skills lead to "toxic playstyles" and everyone uses them, so why are they still there?

Explained earlier, over used meaning you literally HAD to have wings to be competitive as magdk, they needed changing, but they changed them bad.

Stebarnz

regime211 wrote: »

It's easy for people to say " learn and adapt" when its

1. A class you hardly play.
2. A class you struggled against because of wings.
3. Because your class did not take a huge nerf like this.

1. I play DK a LOT mainly pvp
2. Never struggle against DK unless old wings and I was on a strictly bow range type character (rare, don't really like the stealth bow play but lots do)
3. They are all my class.

Stoney_McGeee

Bruh this game doesn’t encourage “countering” they encouraging non thinking button smashing gameplay.
When I watch old DK videos I tear up.

Reflecting, to dragon leap, to dragons blood, to igneous sheild, talons.
What else am I forgetting.
Zos made it clear DKs isn’t meant for Damage, just tanking. Lmao

Commancho

Stebarnz wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

every class had a unique crutch to completely negate range attacks did they?

Not going through all this again for the cheap seats.

Well not every class but 3 still do (if you want to Count ball of Lightning which is severly restricted in countering projectiles).

Ive tried to explain why it was changed but people refuse to listen.

'I hear you... but old wings will never come back as it countered an entire type of game play and a type that is very popular - the stealth rogue arrow from stealth/snipe spam whatever you wanna call it.

I played that style to test and I don't like it but a LOT do and wings basically was 100 % counter, pack up your s*** and leave.

There has to be a middle ground, like someone mentioned deflect, or something similar to templar bubble, Its useless as is and needs a buff but its never coming back, ZOS wont let it as it deletes the hugely popular NB rogue / assassin / dark brotherhood kind of play on which they sell a ton of their games.'

No other class skill does what wings did, hence it was changed, IT WAS CHANGED BADLY AND THEY NEED TO REWORK!, just incase people don't understand my thoughts / opinion.

No other class skill does what cloak can do so let's nerf it. What kind of argumentation is that? Assassin's play style? LOL go role-play in overland and leave pvp alone. They have nerfed it because macro noobs outcried forums.

kpittsniperb14_ESO

regime211 wrote: »

It's easy for people to say " learn and adapt" when its

1. A class you hardly play.
2. A class you struggled against because of wings.
3. Because your class did not take a huge nerf like this.

People should have learned and adapted to pre nerf reflect, yet cried for the nerf and now call for DKs to adapt. Would be interesting to see how many would adapt to a huge nerf to cloak. We've already seen how many "adapters" there were when cast times for shields was proposed, I opposed as well but just an observation.

Reflective scale was a vital part of the DK toolkit and balanced given the limitations that are designed into the class. Especially now that costs are increasing yet again and DK damage is set to take a huge dive next patch DK (especially Mag) is going to need for some of these past nerfs to be looked at. They won't be of course.

Stebarnz

Commancho wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

every class had a unique crutch to completely negate range attacks did they?

Not going through all this again for the cheap seats.

Well not every class but 3 still do (if you want to Count ball of Lightning which is severly restricted in countering projectiles).

Ive tried to explain why it was changed but people refuse to listen.

'I hear you... but old wings will never come back as it countered an entire type of game play and a type that is very popular - the stealth rogue arrow from stealth/snipe spam whatever you wanna call it.

I played that style to test and I don't like it but a LOT do and wings basically was 100 % counter, pack up your s*** and leave.

There has to be a middle ground, like someone mentioned deflect, or something similar to templar bubble, Its useless as is and needs a buff but its never coming back, ZOS wont let it as it deletes the hugely popular NB rogue / assassin / dark brotherhood kind of play on which they sell a ton of their games.'

No other class skill does what wings did, hence it was changed, IT WAS CHANGED BADLY AND THEY NEED TO REWORK!, just incase people don't understand my thoughts / opinion.

No other class skill does what cloak can do so let's nerf it. What kind of argumentation is that? Assassin's play style? LOL go role-play in overland and leave pvp alone. They have nerfed it because macro noobs outcried forums.

ZOS care about $ and a lot of people want to play as a bow type rogue style, wings countered that so they tuned it out badly.

If you don't realise this try removing the blinkers.

Ive tried all styles of game play and I could see wings nerf coming a mile off.

Edziu

Stebarnz wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

every class had a unique crutch to completely negate range attacks did they?

Not going through all this again for the cheap seats.

Well not every class but 3 still do (if you want to Count ball of Lightning which is severly restricted in countering projectiles).

Ive tried to explain why it was changed but people refuse to listen.

'I hear you... but old wings will never come back as it countered an entire type of game play and a type that is very popular - the stealth rogue arrow from stealth/snipe spam whatever you wanna call it.

I played that style to test and I don't like it but a LOT do and wings basically was 100 % counter, pack up your s*** and leave.

There has to be a middle ground, like someone mentioned deflect, or something similar to templar bubble, Its useless as is and needs a buff but its never coming back, ZOS wont let it as it deletes the hugely popular NB rogue / assassin / dark brotherhood kind of play on which they sell a ton of their games.'

No other class skill does what wings did, hence it was changed, IT WAS CHANGED BADLY AND THEY NEED TO REWORK!, just incase people don't understand my thoughts / opinion.

No other class skill does what cloak can do so let's nerf it. What kind of argumentation is that? Assassin's play style? LOL go role-play in overland and leave pvp alone. They have nerfed it because macro noobs outcried forums.

ZOS care about $ and a lot of people want to play as a bow type rogue style, wings countered that so they tuned it out badly.

If you don't realise this try removing the blinkers.

Ive tried all styles of game play and I could see wings nerf coming a mile off.

and so this is going this way sooner or later we will see nothing but ranged rogue on pvp in stealth and pvp will be just like ww1, waiting in 1 place till enemy will make 1st his mistake as showing up to get instantly killed from nowhere

yep, this will be very funny

GusTheWizard

Stebarnz wrote: »

Wings were over performing!

Your ridiculous spout off made me drop IQ points by reading it!

There fixed it, I almost lost IQ points from reading that. 😉

Stebarnz

GusTheWizard wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Wings were over performing!

Your ridiculous spout off made me drop IQ points by reading it!

There fixed it, I almost lost IQ points from reading that. 😉

but... but I wasn't refering in the plural, I meant the single skill, so 'was' is relevant!

Grasping at straws like delparis!

Commancho

Stebarnz wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

every class had a unique crutch to completely negate range attacks did they?

Not going through all this again for the cheap seats.

Well not every class but 3 still do (if you want to Count ball of Lightning which is severly restricted in countering projectiles).

Ive tried to explain why it was changed but people refuse to listen.

'I hear you... but old wings will never come back as it countered an entire type of game play and a type that is very popular - the stealth rogue arrow from stealth/snipe spam whatever you wanna call it.

I played that style to test and I don't like it but a LOT do and wings basically was 100 % counter, pack up your s*** and leave.

There has to be a middle ground, like someone mentioned deflect, or something similar to templar bubble, Its useless as is and needs a buff but its never coming back, ZOS wont let it as it deletes the hugely popular NB rogue / assassin / dark brotherhood kind of play on which they sell a ton of their games.'

No other class skill does what wings did, hence it was changed, IT WAS CHANGED BADLY AND THEY NEED TO REWORK!, just incase people don't understand my thoughts / opinion.

No other class skill does what cloak can do so let's nerf it. What kind of argumentation is that? Assassin's play style? LOL go role-play in overland and leave pvp alone. They have nerfed it because macro noobs outcried forums.

ZOS care about $ and a lot of people want to play as a bow type rogue style, wings countered that so they tuned it out badly.

If you don't realise this try removing the blinkers.

Ive tried all styles of game play and I could see wings nerf coming a mile off.

If this would be true they wouldn't nerf dots in the next patch since except few nobody wants it. You will be still able to counter bow builds after patch. Actually they are absolutely trash against decent players with scales or without. This is how it should be as this playstyle does not require any skill or whatsoever. The point is that magDK will be a garbage next patch - main dmg source dots nerfed, bad sustain will be even worse, close range spam abilities, barely any defense against range attacks. I will reroll my main to Stamtank and wait for the better times.

GusTheWizard

Stebarnz wrote: »

but... but I wasn't refering in the plural, I meant the single skill, so 'was' is relevant!

Grasping at straws like delparis!

Yes but because the skill is a plural name were would be correct, because you’re talking about two wings. Now you could’ve said that skill was over performing.

Stebarnz

Commancho wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

every class had a unique crutch to completely negate range attacks did they?

Not going through all this again for the cheap seats.

Well not every class but 3 still do (if you want to Count ball of Lightning which is severly restricted in countering projectiles).

Ive tried to explain why it was changed but people refuse to listen.

'I hear you... but old wings will never come back as it countered an entire type of game play and a type that is very popular - the stealth rogue arrow from stealth/snipe spam whatever you wanna call it.

I played that style to test and I don't like it but a LOT do and wings basically was 100 % counter, pack up your s*** and leave.

There has to be a middle ground, like someone mentioned deflect, or something similar to templar bubble, Its useless as is and needs a buff but its never coming back, ZOS wont let it as it deletes the hugely popular NB rogue / assassin / dark brotherhood kind of play on which they sell a ton of their games.'

No other class skill does what wings did, hence it was changed, IT WAS CHANGED BADLY AND THEY NEED TO REWORK!, just incase people don't understand my thoughts / opinion.

No other class skill does what cloak can do so let's nerf it. What kind of argumentation is that? Assassin's play style? LOL go role-play in overland and leave pvp alone. They have nerfed it because macro noobs outcried forums.

ZOS care about $ and a lot of people want to play as a bow type rogue style, wings countered that so they tuned it out badly.

If you don't realise this try removing the blinkers.

Ive tried all styles of game play and I could see wings nerf coming a mile off.

If this would be true they wouldn't nerf dots in the next patch since except few nobody wants it. You will be still able to counter bow builds after patch. Actually they are absolutely trash against decent players with scales or without. This is how it should be as this playstyle does not require any skill or whatsoever. The point is that magDK will be a garbage next patch - main dmg source dots nerfed, bad sustain will be even worse, close range spam abilities, barely any defense against range attacks. I will reroll my main to Stamtank and wait for the better times.

Im agreeing with you pal, they have made a hash of the last few 'balances', I have no confidence in them at all!

Dots they over tuned them waaay too hard and now nerfing them waaay waaaaay too hard.

Wings they have broke, needs a rework, same as cloak.(Cloak not broke just needs sorting).

Bow spam is a noob go to definitely but zos need to cater to that market for the $$

Ive fought some good magdk's on pts and they made it work, but it shouldn't require such a wild work around!

Stebarnz

GusTheWizard wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

but... but I wasn't refering in the plural, I meant the single skill, so 'was' is relevant!

Grasping at straws like delparis!

Yes but because the skill is a plural name were would be correct, because you’re talking about two wings. Now you could’ve said that skill was over performing.

I'll go with you, wings as a skill 'was' overperforming

D0PAMINE

Stebarnz wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

but... but I wasn't refering in the plural, I meant the single skill, so 'was' is relevant!

Grasping at straws like delparis!

Yes but because the skill is a plural name were would be correct, because you’re talking about two wings. Now you could’ve said that skill was over performing.

I'll go with you, wings as a skill 'was' overperforming

It wouldn't be so much now with the buffs to non reflectables.

Edziu

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

GusTheWizard wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

but... but I wasn't refering in the plural, I meant the single skill, so 'was' is relevant!

Grasping at straws like delparis!

Yes but because the skill is a plural name were would be correct, because you’re talking about two wings. Now you could’ve said that skill was over performing.

I'll go with you, wings as a skill 'was' overperforming

It wouldn't be so much now with the buffs to non reflectables.

with not to mention how many skills ZOS has changed from reflectife to nonreflective like beams etc or cast upon target instead as projectile

MeadDrinker02

Since they nerfed wings, why don't they nerf these destructive clench mag builds that one shot people and are tanky as well.. Fair is fair.

Stebarnz

MeadDrinker02 wrote: »

Since they nerfed wings, why don't they nerf these destructive clench mag builds that one shot people and are tanky as well.. Fair is fair.

Don't be squishy

You compare a 1 button negate to an entire style of play that makes ZOS money to someone pulling off a combo on a squishy glass cannon.

That will happen