Reflective Plate

MizoreReyes

My perspective: [Non-CP perspective though because CP can make any class/build on steroids and Non-CP can reveal the truth about the state of balance]

1. Costly to recast
(So we couldn't keep this skill up all the time. I just wanted to tell this to you long range users that complained about how you would get completely shut down when we had reflective wings. You had the safety range advantage except in dueling because of dueling environment limitations. You bow users were most likely stamina players so you had access to a large arsenal of close-range abilities but instead of switching off bow, you guys went on the forums and cried nerf. The large magsorc community during the time of reflective wings, I couldn't care less about what you guys thought about it, honestly since you guys were deemed the best class with bursty long range abilities that filled up most of the rooms at that time)
2. A 6 Second duration makes the current wings feel non-existent and especially the 2 second immunities
3. DKs are close range (This is important)
4. Lack of combat disengagement without reflective wings unless you go bulky with a reasonable amount of stamina to run/dodge
5. The wings absolutely had no use during the long range DoT meta

I also would have preferred a fatigue system to this skill but nope, they chose the wrong approach and now I'm told to adapt with very little tools to do so. I still play a lot of BGs but it kills me inside remembering how much fun DK use to be.

D0PAMINE

It was a fun skill. Deffinatly a noob killer.

Commancho

D0PAMINE wrote: »

It was a fun skill. Deffinatly a noob killer.

MagDK is my main. Definitely it was iconic ability in dks arsenal. RIP in 2019, killed accidentally during nerfparade. We will not forget you.

Mr_Walker

Stebarnz wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

Yeah this needs to be reverted back Asap. The change was utter trash, you changed it because people complained mainly magicka nightblades and long range DD. This change basically left dragon knights with little to no defense on projectiles being "Spammed" at them with no means to reflect them back. Using race against time is fine, but it does not reflect. When your playing a 2h/Bow and have to constantly kite because the incoming projectile damage is overwhelming and the only skill we had for that was changed. I'm not about to run to 2h/S&B because you guys constantly want to force people into other playstyles that either don't suit them at all.

We need the change reverted back period.

I wonder how other classes running 2H/bow builds ever coped without access to wings crutch???

It had to be changed it was too strong stop being silly!

Streaks, cloaks, innate healing abilities?

StormeReigns

Adapt.

jcm2606

I don't think reverting it back to exactly what it was is a good idea, rather somewhere in between.

Reduce the cap to 2 but make it per-person, so they wouldn't drop the moment you cast them with even 2 ranged players on you.

Or, remove the cap altogether, but have a minimum distance to reflect, say 12 meters, forcing ranged to come closer to the DK.

Maybe drop the reflect mechanic altogether, and have them deflect projectiles -- rather than reflecting back at the caster, the projectile bounces off randomly, so it's defensively the same as old wings, minus the damage return unless you pick Dragon Fire Scales.

As other people have said, every class has some defensive tool to help take pressure off or escape.

NB has Cloak, and Shade.

Sorc has Streak, and shield stacking.

Templar has Purge, and heavy burst healing.

Warden has Shimmering, and an abundance of passive self-healing.

Necro has Expunge, and flat 10% mitigation.

DK has wings and...?

Coag? Only scales well in execute range, you're already basically dead in execute range.

Embers? Requires a target in melee range, and has to be on the target for a little while to scale well.

Cauterize? Moderate burst healing every 5 seconds is in no way a good tool to take pressure off or escape.

Block? Good bye stamina, and blocking is pointless when you have a million DoT's on you, as well as oblivion damage.

DK really only has wings, and they were clipped. Cloak hasn't been touched, despite having the effects of legit 4 different skills on the one button press. Streak is still a very good escape tool, even if you pick the offensive morph. Purge hasn't been touched, despite the meta literally being in its favour. Shimmering hasn't been touched. Expuge and that flat 10% mitigation hasn't been touched.

Wings need some buffs, because they're the only tool available to DK's to take pressure off from the one spec they're designed to be weak against -- ranged.

D0PAMINE

Commancho wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

It was a fun skill. Deffinatly a noob killer.

MagDK is my main. Definitely it was iconic ability in dks arsenal. RIP in 2019, killed accidentally during nerfparade. We will not forget you.

I have an old build. An Ultigen StamDK. I could keep wings up when needed. I mostly played the "bait" role. I was a tanky mfer lol. Most of the time players would avoid suiciding against me. I would chat with some players after and let them know what was killing them. They usually laughed it off and found other ways when we met again. KenaPKK straight up melted me every time though lol.

D0PAMINE

jcm2606 wrote: »

I don't think reverting it back to exactly what it was is a good idea, rather somewhere in between.

Reduce the cap to 2 but make it per-person, so they wouldn't drop the moment you cast them with even 2 ranged players on you.

Or, remove the cap altogether, but have a minimum distance to reflect, say 12 meters, forcing ranged to come closer to the DK.

Maybe drop the reflect mechanic altogether, and have them deflect projectiles -- rather than reflecting back at the caster, the projectile bounces off randomly, so it's defensively the same as old wings, minus the damage return unless you pick Dragon Fire Scales.

As other people have said, every class has some defensive tool to help take pressure off or escape.

NB has Cloak, and Shade.

Sorc has Streak, and shield stacking.

Templar has Purge, and heavy burst healing.

Warden has Shimmering, and an abundance of passive self-healing.

Necro has Expunge, and flat 10% mitigation.

DK has wings and...?

Coag? Only scales well in execute range, you're already basically dead in execute range.

Embers? Requires a target in melee range, and has to be on the target for a little while to scale well.

Cauterize? Moderate burst healing every 5 seconds is in no way a good tool to take pressure off or escape.

Block? Good bye stamina, and blocking is pointless when you have a million DoT's on you, as well as oblivion damage.

DK really only has wings, and they were clipped. Cloak hasn't been touched, despite having the effects of legit 4 different skills on the one button press. Streak is still a very good escape tool, even if you pick the offensive morph. Purge hasn't been touched, despite the meta literally being in its favour. Shimmering hasn't been touched. Expuge and that flat 10% mitigation hasn't been touched.

Wings need some buffs, because they're the only tool available to DK's to take pressure off from the one spec they're designed to be weak against -- ranged.

I've stuck to just running Ultigen and keeping Magma Armor up in an emergency. It's the passives that help me deal with pressure. Playing a DK means drawn out fights, i've noticed. My hands always hurt lol.

xeNNNNN

Stebarnz wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

Yeah this needs to be reverted back Asap. The change was utter trash, you changed it because people complained mainly magicka nightblades and long range DD. This change basically left dragon knights with little to no defense on projectiles being "Spammed" at them with no means to reflect them back. Using race against time is fine, but it does not reflect. When your playing a 2h/Bow and have to constantly kite because the incoming projectile damage is overwhelming and the only skill we had for that was changed. I'm not about to run to 2h/S&B because you guys constantly want to force people into other playstyles that either don't suit them at all.

We need the change reverted back period.

I wonder how other classes running 2H/bow builds ever coped without access to wings crutch???

It had to be changed it was too strong stop being silly!

dude....you can roll dodge for eternity. what can a magdk do? hope and pray they've got magma armor slotted while being spammed?

Comparing stam user builds vs magdk wings is just rediculous, yeah okay stamdks used it too but it was easy to bait the crap out of stamDK wings because of the limited mag pool but at last generally speaking they could use a real gap closer in the 2h skill line or hell bypass wings entirely with arrow spray.

Stebarnz

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

Yeah this needs to be reverted back Asap. The change was utter trash, you changed it because people complained mainly magicka nightblades and long range DD. This change basically left dragon knights with little to no defense on projectiles being "Spammed" at them with no means to reflect them back. Using race against time is fine, but it does not reflect. When your playing a 2h/Bow and have to constantly kite because the incoming projectile damage is overwhelming and the only skill we had for that was changed. I'm not about to run to 2h/S&B because you guys constantly want to force people into other playstyles that either don't suit them at all.

We need the change reverted back period.

I wonder how other classes running 2H/bow builds ever coped without access to wings crutch???

It had to be changed it was too strong stop being silly!

dude....you can roll dodge for eternity. what can a magdk do? hope and pray they've got magma armor slotted while being spammed?

Comparing stam user builds vs magdk wings is just rediculous, yeah okay stamdks used it too but it was easy to bait the crap out of stamDK wings because of the limited mag pool but at last generally speaking they could use a real gap closer in the 2h skill line or hell bypass wings entirely with arrow spray.

Chain? leap? Pretty much it but scenario based if they will work.

Like I said DK especially MDK isn't in a good place, good as a support role. but wings as it was needed changing, that's just a fact! Its not right in its current form I agree but it wasn't right. On my MDK I could use wings with a few other skills and a certain combination of armour sets and be ridiculously tanky with high damage to the point where it was impossible for a range build to have any chance at all.

Donny_Vito

DKs already have a pretty powerful toolkit as it is, in terms of defense. They need more offensive tools, IMO.

xeNNNNN

Stebarnz wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

Yeah this needs to be reverted back Asap. The change was utter trash, you changed it because people complained mainly magicka nightblades and long range DD. This change basically left dragon knights with little to no defense on projectiles being "Spammed" at them with no means to reflect them back. Using race against time is fine, but it does not reflect. When your playing a 2h/Bow and have to constantly kite because the incoming projectile damage is overwhelming and the only skill we had for that was changed. I'm not about to run to 2h/S&B because you guys constantly want to force people into other playstyles that either don't suit them at all.

We need the change reverted back period.

I wonder how other classes running 2H/bow builds ever coped without access to wings crutch???

It had to be changed it was too strong stop being silly!

dude....you can roll dodge for eternity. what can a magdk do? hope and pray they've got magma armor slotted while being spammed?

Comparing stam user builds vs magdk wings is just rediculous, yeah okay stamdks used it too but it was easy to bait the crap out of stamDK wings because of the limited mag pool but at last generally speaking they could use a real gap closer in the 2h skill line or hell bypass wings entirely with arrow spray.

Chain? leap? Pretty much it but scenario based if they will work.

Like I said DK especially MDK isn't in a good place, good as a support role. but wings as it was needed changing, that's just a fact! Its not right in its current form I agree but it wasn't right. On my MDK I could use wings with a few other skills and a certain combination of armour sets and be ridiculously tanky with high damage to the point where it was impossible for a range build to have any chance at all.

Chains barely ever works out as its supposed to. Leap does nothing most of the time unless its a bad player not prepared for it.

Yeah....."impossible"....sorcs could streak through and stun the crap out of you.
Magblades and stamblades could concealed, suprise attack from stealth to stun. (pretty much a mandatory skill whether ranged or not).

The ONLY build that suffers hard as a result of reflective plates existence are freaking bow builds that spam snipe and poison inject (arrow spray doesn't get reflected) besides why it is a bad thing to get draining shot punished? we all know how much that crap is being abused right now. Wings is horribly expensive and requires you to spam it to even maintain any level of tankiness that it supposedly grants which wastes time and allows people to just bait you into overusing it and then they kill you because you have nothing left even good players have no chance against stambuilds, I mean for christ sake DK was already hard countered by half the game before wings even got nerfed.

Like yeah it was hard to play around sometimes but when you completely take the only true defense it actually has away from ranged spam from players you essentially gut 50% of DK survivability forcing anyone who wasn't running S&B already to do so. Now magdks cant really close on anyone anymore. Whip can be dodge, DoTs as of PTS are now Dead. Like what does mag DK have left? besides why is it so bad that ranged builds had a hard counter ffs? Why do people need to be hand held all the god damned time. We're weak to both ranged and melee now, the immunity wings provided was pants and just gave people more ammunition to *** about one of the most over nerfed classes in the game.

Now we're here. DK has nothing left. THAT is a fact. You know whats funny, if they removed sorc shields from the game (essentially what they did with wings) how likely do you think that change would of gone through? ... easy answer is that it wouldnt because despite the fact I hate sorc shields I recognise they need them for their class to survive as do DKs need their old wings back.

Stebarnz

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

Yeah this needs to be reverted back Asap. The change was utter trash, you changed it because people complained mainly magicka nightblades and long range DD. This change basically left dragon knights with little to no defense on projectiles being "Spammed" at them with no means to reflect them back. Using race against time is fine, but it does not reflect. When your playing a 2h/Bow and have to constantly kite because the incoming projectile damage is overwhelming and the only skill we had for that was changed. I'm not about to run to 2h/S&B because you guys constantly want to force people into other playstyles that either don't suit them at all.

We need the change reverted back period.

I wonder how other classes running 2H/bow builds ever coped without access to wings crutch???

It had to be changed it was too strong stop being silly!

dude....you can roll dodge for eternity. what can a magdk do? hope and pray they've got magma armor slotted while being spammed?

Comparing stam user builds vs magdk wings is just rediculous, yeah okay stamdks used it too but it was easy to bait the crap out of stamDK wings because of the limited mag pool but at last generally speaking they could use a real gap closer in the 2h skill line or hell bypass wings entirely with arrow spray.

Chain? leap? Pretty much it but scenario based if they will work.

Like I said DK especially MDK isn't in a good place, good as a support role. but wings as it was needed changing, that's just a fact! Its not right in its current form I agree but it wasn't right. On my MDK I could use wings with a few other skills and a certain combination of armour sets and be ridiculously tanky with high damage to the point where it was impossible for a range build to have any chance at all.

Chains barely ever works out as its supposed to. Leap does nothing most of the time unless its a bad player not prepared for it.

Yeah....."impossible"....sorcs could streak through and stun the crap out of you.
Magblades and stamblades could concealed, suprise attack from stealth to stun. (pretty much a mandatory skill whether ranged or not).

The ONLY build that suffers hard as a result of reflective plates existence are freaking bow builds that spam snipe and poison inject (arrow spray doesn't get reflected) besides why it is a bad thing to get draining shot punished? we all know how much that crap is being abused right now. Wings is horribly expensive and requires you to spam it to even maintain any level of tankiness that it supposedly grants which wastes time and allows people to just bait you into overusing it and then they kill you because you have nothing left even good players have no chance against stambuilds, I mean for christ sake DK was already hard countered by half the game before wings even got nerfed.

Like yeah it was hard to play around sometimes but when you completely take the only true defense it actually has away from ranged spam from players you essentially gut 50% of DK survivability forcing anyone who wasn't running S&B already to do so. Now magdks cant really close on anyone anymore. Whip can be dodge, DoTs as of PTS are now Dead. Like what does mag DK have left? besides why is it so bad that ranged builds had a hard counter ffs? Why do people need to be hand held all the god damned time. We're weak to both ranged and melee now, the immunity wings provided was pants and just gave people more ammunition to *** about one of the most over nerfed classes in the game.

Now we're here. DK has nothing left. THAT is a fact. You know whats funny, if they removed sorc shields from the game (essentially what they did with wings) how likely do you think that change would of gone through? ... easy answer is that it wouldnt because despite the fact I hate sorc shields I recognise they need them for their class to survive as do DKs need their old wings back.

I hear you... but old wings will never come back as it countered an entire type of game play and a type that is very popular - the stealth rogue arrow from stealth/snipe spam whatever you wanna call it.

I played that style to test and I don't like it but a LOT do and wings basically was 100 % counter, pack up your s*** and leave.

There has to be a middle ground, like someone mentioned deflect, or something similar to templar bubble, Its useless as is and needs a buff but its never coming back, ZOS wont let it as it deletes the hugely popular NB rogue / assassin / dark brotherhood kind of play on which they sell a ton of their games.

Emmagoldman

regime211 wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Its a cool skill, main mag sorc so it locked down frags, but was really unique

It was a skill that really helped, dks stay in the fight without having to dodge roll every few seconds because of incoming projectiles. Now you have to either be sucked into playing a specific playstyle whether it was gear/skills to compensate. Everytime I take incoming damage it's to the point I'm desync and have no method of deflecting it back other then to play a specific copy setup.

I personally like that some classes have uniqueness and at times can hard counter abilities. So snipe spammers are mad that their snipe was thrown back......

zParallaxz

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

xeNNNNN wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

Yeah this needs to be reverted back Asap. The change was utter trash, you changed it because people complained mainly magicka nightblades and long range DD. This change basically left dragon knights with little to no defense on projectiles being "Spammed" at them with no means to reflect them back. Using race against time is fine, but it does not reflect. When your playing a 2h/Bow and have to constantly kite because the incoming projectile damage is overwhelming and the only skill we had for that was changed. I'm not about to run to 2h/S&B because you guys constantly want to force people into other playstyles that either don't suit them at all.

We need the change reverted back period.

I wonder how other classes running 2H/bow builds ever coped without access to wings crutch???

It had to be changed it was too strong stop being silly!

dude....you can roll dodge for eternity. what can a magdk do? hope and pray they've got magma armor slotted while being spammed?

Comparing stam user builds vs magdk wings is just rediculous, yeah okay stamdks used it too but it was easy to bait the crap out of stamDK wings because of the limited mag pool but at last generally speaking they could use a real gap closer in the 2h skill line or hell bypass wings entirely with arrow spray.

Chain? leap? Pretty much it but scenario based if they will work.

Like I said DK especially MDK isn't in a good place, good as a support role. but wings as it was needed changing, that's just a fact! Its not right in its current form I agree but it wasn't right. On my MDK I could use wings with a few other skills and a certain combination of armour sets and be ridiculously tanky with high damage to the point where it was impossible for a range build to have any chance at all.

Chains barely ever works out as its supposed to. Leap does nothing most of the time unless its a bad player not prepared for it.

Yeah....."impossible"....sorcs could streak through and stun the crap out of you.
Magblades and stamblades could concealed, suprise attack from stealth to stun. (pretty much a mandatory skill whether ranged or not).

The ONLY build that suffers hard as a result of reflective plates existence are freaking bow builds that spam snipe and poison inject (arrow spray doesn't get reflected) besides why it is a bad thing to get draining shot punished? we all know how much that crap is being abused right now. Wings is horribly expensive and requires you to spam it to even maintain any level of tankiness that it supposedly grants which wastes time and allows people to just bait you into overusing it and then they kill you because you have nothing left even good players have no chance against stambuilds, I mean for christ sake DK was already hard countered by half the game before wings even got nerfed.

Like yeah it was hard to play around sometimes but when you completely take the only true defense it actually has away from ranged spam from players you essentially gut 50% of DK survivability forcing anyone who wasn't running S&B already to do so. Now magdks cant really close on anyone anymore. Whip can be dodge, DoTs as of PTS are now Dead. Like what does mag DK have left? besides why is it so bad that ranged builds had a hard counter ffs? Why do people need to be hand held all the god damned time. We're weak to both ranged and melee now, the immunity wings provided was pants and just gave people more ammunition to *** about one of the most over nerfed classes in the game.

Now we're here. DK has nothing left. THAT is a fact. You know whats funny, if they removed sorc shields from the game (essentially what they did with wings) how likely do you think that change would of gone through? ... easy answer is that it wouldnt because despite the fact I hate sorc shields I recognise they need them for their class to survive as do DKs need their old wings back.

My thoughts exactly

khajiitNPC

I miss wings too. Definitely a class defining ability. That being said were they to revert the changes, they should probably bring down the number of projectiles reflected down. 1v1 it was definitely overtuned.

Kuramas9tails

I main a Mageblade and I didn't complain about reflecting my skills back at me. I actually thought it was funny I would kill myself.

Mageblades have cloak which evade some skills completely...but we can be taken out of cloak easily by a multiple of skills/builds/classes so I can see why comparing it to cloak is a bad idea. There should have been some other change that let you use it but also let range players find a way to counter it as easily as pulling someone out of cloak.

Remember when the wings could reflect ultimates?

Fun times.

jadarock

Stebarnz wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

Yeah this needs to be reverted back Asap. The change was utter trash, you changed it because people complained mainly magicka nightblades and long range DD. This change basically left dragon knights with little to no defense on projectiles being "Spammed" at them with no means to reflect them back. Using race against time is fine, but it does not reflect. When your playing a 2h/Bow and have to constantly kite because the incoming projectile damage is overwhelming and the only skill we had for that was changed. I'm not about to run to 2h/S&B because you guys constantly want to force people into other playstyles that either don't suit them at all.

We need the change reverted back period.

I wonder how other classes running 2H/bow builds ever coped without access to wings crutch???

It had to be changed it was too strong stop being silly!

Fwiw Every class had there own unique crutch so....

Stebarnz

jadarock wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

regime211 wrote: »

Yeah this needs to be reverted back Asap. The change was utter trash, you changed it because people complained mainly magicka nightblades and long range DD. This change basically left dragon knights with little to no defense on projectiles being "Spammed" at them with no means to reflect them back. Using race against time is fine, but it does not reflect. When your playing a 2h/Bow and have to constantly kite because the incoming projectile damage is overwhelming and the only skill we had for that was changed. I'm not about to run to 2h/S&B because you guys constantly want to force people into other playstyles that either don't suit them at all.

We need the change reverted back period.

I wonder how other classes running 2H/bow builds ever coped without access to wings crutch???

It had to be changed it was too strong stop being silly!

Fwiw Every class had there own unique crutch so....

every class had a unique crutch to completely negate range attacks did they?

Not going through all this again for the cheap seats.

regime211

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Stebarnz you clown.....
Every other class got their OP abilities nerfed but then ZOS reverted the nerfs.

With DK they just deleted the ability.
All Wings needed was a fatigue addition to prevent magDK from shutting down noobs that didnt want to use other tools except for projectiles.

But no... the iconic ability that both stamDK and magDK used got removed.
So get lost with your arguments and go play your ez mode ESO class.



I havent spend a dollar ever since they did that. Im sure DKs main are doing the same

Say it again! Because this clown clearly doesnt understand what Dk's are saying!

regime211

Stebarnz wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Stebarnz you clown.....
Every other class got their OP abilities nerfed but then ZOS reverted the nerfs.

With DK they just deleted the ability.
All Wings needed was a fatigue addition to prevent magDK from shutting down noobs that didnt want to use other tools except for projectiles.

But no... the iconic ability that both stamDK and magDK used got removed.
So get lost with your arguments and go play your ez mode ESO class.



I havent spend a dollar ever since they did that. Im sure DKs main are doing the same

Pffff! do one you bell end!

If you cant adjust and think that wings was the only thing that made DK viable then thats your problem!

I still play DK and do well, not as well as I used to when it was a stronger class but still ok.

I just said wings should be altered as they have made it a non existent skill but I don't work at zos, all I know it was overperforming and they changed it to where it was under performing.

Also I said I play EVERY class and EVERY class has its glory days, DK is in a trough at the min that's all, it will change.

If you are currently unhappy with DK performance then you are really gonna be negged out if the next patch currently on PTS goes live! GL with that!

The only thing that made stamDK viable was SnB/2h 7th Fury BS which I didnt use.
Wings was a beautiful and strong skill that as a stamDK could use once in a while.
The ability was not nerfed. It was deleted. Do you understand that?

I don't know if I understand... wait a minute I think I said they made it a non existent skill, let me check...……… yes, yes I did!

Also I think I said wings was over used by the majority that's why they changed it, let me check...……. yes, yes I said that too!

Reading is great!

DK has a couple of skills that need looking at and changing, wings is definitely one of them!

Lol man you just like the change because you probably were one of those who complained because you could NEVER beat a dk using wings!!

regime211

jcm2606 wrote: »

I don't think reverting it back to exactly what it was is a good idea, rather somewhere in between.

Reduce the cap to 2 but make it per-person, so they wouldn't drop the moment you cast them with even 2 ranged players on you.

Or, remove the cap altogether, but have a minimum distance to reflect, say 12 meters, forcing ranged to come closer to the DK.

Maybe drop the reflect mechanic altogether, and have them deflect projectiles -- rather than reflecting back at the caster, the projectile bounces off randomly, so it's defensively the same as old wings, minus the damage return unless you pick Dragon Fire Scales.

As other people have said, every class has some defensive tool to help take pressure off or escape.

NB has Cloak, and Shade.

Sorc has Streak, and shield stacking.

Templar has Purge, and heavy burst healing.

Warden has Shimmering, and an abundance of passive self-healing.

Necro has Expunge, and flat 10% mitigation.

DK has wings and...?

Coag? Only scales well in execute range, you're already basically dead in execute range.

Embers? Requires a target in melee range, and has to be on the target for a little while to scale well.

Cauterize? Moderate burst healing every 5 seconds is in no way a good tool to take pressure off or escape.

Block? Good bye stamina, and blocking is pointless when you have a million DoT's on you, as well as oblivion damage.

DK really only has wings, and they were clipped. Cloak hasn't been touched, despite having the effects of legit 4 different skills on the one button press. Streak is still a very good escape tool, even if you pick the offensive morph. Purge hasn't been touched, despite the meta literally being in its favour. Shimmering hasn't been touched. Expuge and that flat 10% mitigation hasn't been touched.

Wings need some buffs, because they're the only tool available to DK's to take pressure off from the one spec they're designed to be weak against -- ranged.

Hell they could of taken off the damn damage and when you deflect any long range projectile back at them it stuns or cc's them kind of like how templars has freaken annoying eclipse!!

GeorgeBlack

Regime give it up.
Unless you are a sorcerer there's no point making discussions for class changes.
Only their QQing gets the devs motivated.
The rest of the classes have to play what random hand they are dealt:
Reasonable adjustments to OP ulties like Incap
OP buffs like magplar eclipse
Nonsense additions like Seething Fury with bonus WD on a magika spammable and a high cost low dmg 5 cast CC in Stone Fist

Good changes take 2-4 years before the finally come along.

regime211

8k

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Regime give it up.
Unless you are a sorcerer there's no point making discussions for class changes.
Only their QQing gets the devs motivated.
The rest of the classes have to play what random hand they are dealt:
Reasonable adjustments to OP ulties like Incap
OP buffs like magplar eclipse
Nonsense additions like Seething Fury with bonus WD on a magika spammable and a high cost low dmg 5 cast CC in Stone Fist

Good changes take 2-4 years before the finally come along.

Hell they have been butchering the game so much, playing a mag dk like I used to isn't even fun I ended up turning them all into stam.

Mayrael

Wings needed a counter (no, using melee skills was not a counter since not every freaking spec has tons of melee skills to use, and thinking that spaming one skill, where you can't weave because your LA are being reflected, will kill a DK is just stupidity of another level).

I was opting for changing it so wings can reflect up to 3 projectiles PER PERSON but only at range greater than 10m.

But DKs back then said it would be unfair etc. etc. I suppose you would take it now eh?

WoppaBoem

They should do something with this skill. I completely stopped using it. Sad really loved my character more with wings...

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

but now I dont have to block zmaja heavy....me like...live miew wings alone!

regime211

Mayrael wrote: »

Wings needed a counter (no, using melee skills was not a counter since not every freaking spec has tons of melee skills to use, and thinking that spaming one skill, where you can't weave because your LA are being reflected, will kill a DK is just stupidity of another level).

I was opting for changing it so wings can reflect up to 3 projectiles PER PERSON but only at range greater than 10m.

But DKs back then said it would be unfair etc. etc. I suppose you would take it now eh?

I never want the skill to change but definitely shouldn't of gutted the skill. They should just take the whole damn skill out because the skill and morphs are all trash.

Sanguinor2

Stebarnz wrote: »

every class had a unique crutch to completely negate range attacks did they?

Not going through all this again for the cheap seats.

Well not every class but 3 still do (if you want to Count ball of Lightning which is severly restricted in countering projectiles).

Stebarnz

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

Stebarnz wrote: »

every class had a unique crutch to completely negate range attacks did they?

Not going through all this again for the cheap seats.

Well not every class but 3 still do (if you want to Count ball of Lightning which is severly restricted in countering projectiles).

Ive tried to explain why it was changed but people refuse to listen.

'I hear you... but old wings will never come back as it countered an entire type of game play and a type that is very popular - the stealth rogue arrow from stealth/snipe spam whatever you wanna call it.

I played that style to test and I don't like it but a LOT do and wings basically was 100 % counter, pack up your s*** and leave.

There has to be a middle ground, like someone mentioned deflect, or something similar to templar bubble, Its useless as is and needs a buff but its never coming back, ZOS wont let it as it deletes the hugely popular NB rogue / assassin / dark brotherhood kind of play on which they sell a ton of their games.'

No other class skill does what wings did, hence it was changed, IT WAS CHANGED BADLY AND THEY NEED TO REWORK!, just incase people don't understand my thoughts / opinion.