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Sustain looks like it's going to suck
Jodynn
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Will test soon
Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.
1
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Vigawatt✭✭✭I'm going to have to do this too. I was using Degeneration for my DoT focused build. I won't be able to sustain without it.1 -
StShoot✭✭✭✭you can dumb you dk with the sustain/dot nerfs but hey atleast we had some month without bein completly useless as pve dds (not competetiv but not useless either =S)1 -
Jodynn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Everyone got *** up not just dk
As a magdk main, i can confirm, sustain is ass.
Rotation is boring af.
This patch may actually make me quit.Jodynn PC NA
PvE and PvP MagDK
The lack of communication from ZOS to player speaks volumes.9 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It’s not just degen, skills are ridiculously expensive. Wall increased by nearly 2k, so casting it every 10s drains nearly 200 more mag/s than before, and that’s one of several cost increases.7 -
Corpier✭✭✭✭ZOS keeps trying to cut the rate of restoring resources and raise the cost of skills to reduce sustain and prevent players from constantly using abilities. The devs have previously said the trade off of the action combat without cooldowns we have is that there is a limited resource pool to keep players from continuously spamming abilities endlessly.
The problem with this, as anyone who was around for Morrowind would know, is that when resource sustain sucks people do heavy attacks.
HEAVY ATTACKS ARE NOT FUN!
People don't want to play Heavy Attacks Online again.
ZOS needs to learn that they can nerf damage, they can nerf healing, they can even nerf survivability and players will adapt. Most players will even admit that power creep has escalated in the last couple years and a lot of content can be completed with significantly less power (though you can't expect things like Godslayer that is barely achievable now to be possible after a 33% damage nerf and what is the point of it if it is literally impossible). What they can't nerf is sustain, because when people are stuck doing heavy attacks or run out of resources after 3 abilities, they aren't having fun.
They can nerf power and players will adapt, you can't nerf fun and expect people to be happy. Sustain is good when players can finish a fight using all their resources and end up with nothing, especially when that is rewarded as playing skillfully. Its bad when players are fighting their resource bar more than their enemy as it takes the focus out of combat to monitor a green/blue bar and slows down fun combat to spend 2 seconds winding up a heavy attack half the time..
tl;dr: ZOS, STOP TRYING TO FORCE US TO HEAVY ATTACK! They are fine to use occasionally as a sustain option, but when people run out of resources so fast there is nothing else they can do but hold left click IT IS NOT FUN!Edited by Corpier on September 17, 2019 10:53PM@Corpier | PC/NA CP1300+
My Characters:AD
A Príorí: Highelf - Magicka Sorcerer
DC
Corpier: Orc - Stamina Nightblade
Corpier: Orc - Stamina Sorcerer
EP
A Fortiori: Darkelf - Magicka Nightblade
A Posteriori: Darkelf - Magicka Dragonknight
Bertha Ironsides: Imperial - Dragonknight Tank
Corpier: Breton - Magicka Templar
Corpíer: Orc - Stamina Templar
CorpÌer: Orc - Stamina Warden
Corpier: Orc - Stamina Necromancer
Logen'Bloody-Nine'Fingers: Orc - Stamina Dragonknight12 -
RexyCat✭✭✭✭Heavy attacks aren't fun? Then put more regen into your build! You have choices!
What is the point with more recovery? When you are in combat recovery will be reduced until you are out of combat. That is why the in combat bug is really annoying as you will have much harder to move (slowed down) and do not regain resources at same speed as OOC.
During Scalebreaker I have used cost reduction instead both from jewels and from CP.
//RexyCat0 -
Gahmerdohn✭✭✭Recovery is also my only concern about this patch, when I tested my builds I had a way harder time to sustain.
nerf damage is pretty fine, most of the content was a joke, the only people that really will be hurt by this are the ones that are trying to get the "God Slayer achievement".
Regarding recovery, we have to test a lot of option to see if it is only a matter of adapting builds or it's really getting bad and simply provide feedback about it0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS keeps trying to cut the rate of restoring resources and raise the cost of skills to reduce sustain and prevent players from constantly using abilities. The devs have previously said the trade off of the action combat without cooldowns we have is that there is a limited resource pool to keep players from continuously spamming abilities endlessly.
The problem with this, as anyone who was around for Morrowind would know, is that when resource sustain sucks people do heavy attacks.
HEAVY ATTACKS ARE NOT FUN!
People don't want to play Heavy Attacks Online again.
ZOS needs to learn that they can nerf damage, they can nerf healing, they can even nerf survivability and players will adapt. Most players will even admit that power creep has escalated in the last couple years and a lot of content can be completed with significantly less power (though you can't expect things like Godslayer that is barely achievable now to be possible after a 33% damage nerf and what is the point of it if it is literally impossible). What they can't nerf is sustain, because when people are stuck doing heavy attacks or run out of resources after 3 abilities, they aren't having fun.
They can nerf power and players will adapt, you can't nerf fun and expect people to be happy. Sustain is good when players can finish a fight using all their resources and end up with nothing, especially when that is rewarded as playing skillfully. Its bad when players are fighting their resource bar more than their enemy as it takes the focus out of combat to monitor a green/blue bar and slows down fun combat to spend 2 seconds winding up a heavy attack half the time..
tl;dr: ZOS, STOP TRYING TO FORCE US TO HEAVY ATTACK! They are fine to use occasionally as a sustain option, but when people run out of resources so fast there is nothing else they can do but hold left click IT IS NOT FUN!
Animation cancelling encourages ability spam.
They want us to take it slow, but then they designed combat to be fast paced and twitchy.11 -
raaphor✭✭✭Optimized groups with capable players will find solutions, it's the players that are not in the top 10% and want to do harder content that suffer most.. again.EU/PC - 9 max level characters (DC)
NA/PC - 2 characters (AD)6 -
MehrunesFlagon✭✭✭✭✭
✭With stamcro I noticed I didn't need any adjustments on the 21 mil dummy.Didn't adjustmy build any.just was kind of seeing where things fell.sustain lasted well throughout.1 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS keeps trying to cut the rate of restoring resources and raise the cost of skills to reduce sustain and prevent players from constantly using abilities. The devs have previously said the trade off of the action combat without cooldowns we have is that there is a limited resource pool to keep players from continuously spamming abilities endlessly.
The problem with this, as anyone who was around for Morrowind would know, is that when resource sustain sucks people do heavy attacks.
HEAVY ATTACKS ARE NOT FUN!
People don't want to play Heavy Attacks Online again.
ZOS needs to learn that they can nerf damage, they can nerf healing, they can even nerf survivability and players will adapt. Most players will even admit that power creep has escalated in the last couple years and a lot of content can be completed with significantly less power (though you can't expect things like Godslayer that is barely achievable now to be possible after a 33% damage nerf and what is the point of it if it is literally impossible). What they can't nerf is sustain, because when people are stuck doing heavy attacks or run out of resources after 3 abilities, they aren't having fun.
They can nerf power and players will adapt, you can't nerf fun and expect people to be happy. Sustain is good when players can finish a fight using all their resources and end up with nothing, especially when that is rewarded as playing skillfully. Its bad when players are fighting their resource bar more than their enemy as it takes the focus out of combat to monitor a green/blue bar and slows down fun combat to spend 2 seconds winding up a heavy attack half the time..
tl;dr: ZOS, STOP TRYING TO FORCE US TO HEAVY ATTACK! They are fine to use occasionally as a sustain option, but when people run out of resources so fast there is nothing else they can do but hold left click IT IS NOT FUN!
I used heavy attacks my whole game life in larger or smaller degree, and I find it an interesting mechanic that's not used enough. Demands good timing and strat, as you can't just spam it because it's slow, and it lists back by showing you to jump back into action again. No such a thing as a free lunch. Keep that in mind...1 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Heavy attacks aren't fun? Then put more regen into your build! You have choices!
What is the point with more recovery? When you are in combat recovery will be reduced until you are out of combat. That is why the in combat bug is really annoying as you will have much harder to move (slowed down) and do not regain resources at same speed as OOC.
During Scalebreaker I have used cost reduction instead both from jewels and from CP.
//RexyCat
The number you see in "magicka recovery"on your stats is the number you get DURING combat. Not the reduced version. Out of combat numbers remain a mystery to me, never understood how they work.
Calls lock for emphasis, sorry for looking rude.1 -
ChefZero✭✭✭✭I'm ok with Heavy Attacks and cutting sustain. Spamming abilities over and over carried by passive regen is just boring.PC EU - DC only3 -
SaucyMcSauceface✭✭✭✭Heavy attacks would not be so bad if they were a bit faster. I get that ZOS desperately wants them used, but time and time again people have shown that they are just not fun. The only place that they were regularly used was on a stam sorc when bound gave a bonus to heavy attacks, but even that was not as fun as a faster rotation.3
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Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭HAs dont fit well with MA destro staff, unfortunatly. I played a petsorc HA lightning and tbh it was fun. Who knows? Considering that it will be imba hard to keep sustain on a Sorc, maybe it´s time to get back to them...0 -
BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Heavy Attacking with a Staff often does not work at all.
The Staff then just shakes like mad, even if you stand right in front of a target.
This bug is in the game for years now.
ZOS FIX YOUR GAME, before making HeavyAttacks mandatory.
Edited by BalticBlues on September 18, 2019 10:44AM4 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »Heavy Attacking with a Staff often does not work at all.
The Staff then just shakes like mad, even if you stand right in front of a target.
This bug is in the game for years now.
ZOS FIX YOUR GAME, before making HeavyAttacks mandatory.
Indeed. Not easy at all sometimes to point out the HA to its target, much harder than LAs dunno why.0 -
Olupajmibanan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS keeps trying to cut the rate of restoring resources and raise the cost of skills to reduce sustain and prevent players from constantly using abilities. The devs have previously said the trade off of the action combat without cooldowns we have is that there is a limited resource pool to keep players from continuously spamming abilities endlessly.
The problem with this, as anyone who was around for Morrowind would know, is that when resource sustain sucks people do heavy attacks.
HEAVY ATTACKS ARE NOT FUN!
People don't want to play Heavy Attacks Online again.
ZOS needs to learn that they can nerf damage, they can nerf healing, they can even nerf survivability and players will adapt. Most players will even admit that power creep has escalated in the last couple years and a lot of content can be completed with significantly less power (though you can't expect things like Godslayer that is barely achievable now to be possible after a 33% damage nerf and what is the point of it if it is literally impossible). What they can't nerf is sustain, because when people are stuck doing heavy attacks or run out of resources after 3 abilities, they aren't having fun.
They can nerf power and players will adapt, you can't nerf fun and expect people to be happy. Sustain is good when players can finish a fight using all their resources and end up with nothing, especially when that is rewarded as playing skillfully. Its bad when players are fighting their resource bar more than their enemy as it takes the focus out of combat to monitor a green/blue bar and slows down fun combat to spend 2 seconds winding up a heavy attack half the time..
tl;dr: ZOS, STOP TRYING TO FORCE US TO HEAVY ATTACK! They are fine to use occasionally as a sustain option, but when people run out of resources so fast there is nothing else they can do but hold left click IT IS NOT FUN!
I used heavy attacks my whole game life in larger or smaller degree, and I find it an interesting mechanic that's not used enough. Demands good timing and strat, as you can't just spam it because it's slow, and it lists back by showing you to jump back into action again. No such a thing as a free lunch. Keep that in mind...
In order to achieve that, Off-balance debuff should be a lot more obvious with some kind of very eye-catching animation. That way players would watch for the debuff and timed well their heavy attacks.0 -
Katahdin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS keeps trying to cut the rate of restoring resources and raise the cost of skills to reduce sustain and prevent players from constantly using abilities. The devs have previously said the trade off of the action combat without cooldowns we have is that there is a limited resource pool to keep players from continuously spamming abilities endlessly.
The problem with this, as anyone who was around for Morrowind would know, is that when resource sustain sucks people do heavy attacks.
HEAVY ATTACKS ARE NOT FUN!
People don't want to play Heavy Attacks Online again.
ZOS needs to learn that they can nerf damage, they can nerf healing, they can even nerf survivability and players will adapt. Most players will even admit that power creep has escalated in the last couple years and a lot of content can be completed with significantly less power (though you can't expect things like Godslayer that is barely achievable now to be possible after a 33% damage nerf and what is the point of it if it is literally impossible). What they can't nerf is sustain, because when people are stuck doing heavy attacks or run out of resources after 3 abilities, they aren't having fun.
They can nerf power and players will adapt, you can't nerf fun and expect people to be happy. Sustain is good when players can finish a fight using all their resources and end up with nothing, especially when that is rewarded as playing skillfully. Its bad when players are fighting their resource bar more than their enemy as it takes the focus out of combat to monitor a green/blue bar and slows down fun combat to spend 2 seconds winding up a heavy attack half the time..
tl;dr: ZOS, STOP TRYING TO FORCE US TO HEAVY ATTACK! They are fine to use occasionally as a sustain option, but when people run out of resources so fast there is nothing else they can do but hold left click IT IS NOT FUN!
100% agree wish I could give you an agree, awesome and insightful all at onceThePedge wrote:If I go Vampire I can sustain on Bi-Stat food as Orc Nightblade
Not everyone wants to be forced to be a vamp either
Beta tester November 20132 -
Robo_Hobo✭✭✭✭✭
✭From my short bit of testing, after taking out DoTs, sustain for my magsorc was better than ever, but before taking out DoTs it was indeed very bad0
