Magden Solo PVP RIP

ZarkingFrued

I just thought you should know that you managed to completely annihilate Magicka Warden for pvp this past patch. Its gotta be the worst class in the game now. No streamer will touch it, and its rare to see any solo at all. There is no reliable method of doing consistent damage to players. Not everyone wants to play Zerg wars in Cyrodiil. Nothing wrong with those who do, but some of us feel robbed right now.

ZarkingFrued

Honestly look at Magplar then look at Magden. Doesn't even compare. I know the Devs aren't playing solo tho, so why should they care. It heals zergs, and has a big hard hitting AOE debuff, patented ZERG READY

LeHarrt91

Just because streamers dont play it doesnt mean its not possible to. Yes its harder to pull off than some of the other classes but that just makes the wins even better.

All you really need is Degen, Infection, Crushing and Northern Storm to kill most players and you dont need any fancy proc sets.

chrightt

Magden is still quite potent in group content. The main issue is magplar is overperforming. Well, what can we do. Just wait another day for U24 patch notes and you’ll know if you should play a new char.

ESO_Nightingale

Still waiting to be disappointed tomorrow.

"in some cases, grant new gameplay options"

We need exactly that but I'm pretty sure we won't get it.

I'm hoping they also add unique and/or useful effects to Swarm, Falcon's Swiftness, Fungal growth, lotus flower, expansive frost cloak, Arctic Wind and Arctic Blast, and Winter's Revenge.

Sanctum74

Problem is that magden is absolutely op against new players, but useless against experienced ones. Not sure how they could balance that.

ESO_Nightingale

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Problem is that magden is absolutely op against new players, but useless against experienced ones. Not sure how they could balance that.

Describe how it's op please.

Iskiab

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Problem is that magden is absolutely op against new players, but useless against experienced ones. Not sure how they could balance that.

Same way as NB I’d be better imagine.

Juhasow

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Still waiting to be disappointed tomorrow.

"in some cases, grant new gameplay options"

We need exactly that but I'm pretty sure we won't get it.

I'm hoping they also add unique and/or useful effects to Swarm, Falcon's Swiftness, Fungal growth, lotus flower, expansive frost cloak, Arctic Wind and Arctic Blast, and Winter's Revenge.

I think it'll happen on tuesday not monday. They've moved it If I'm correct.

ZarkingFrued

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Just because streamers dont play it doesnt mean its not possible to. Yes its harder to pull off than some of the other classes but that just makes the wins even better.

All you really need is Degen, Infection, Crushing and Northern Storm to kill most players and you dont need any fancy proc sets.

You gotta be joking lol. Didn't take long for someone to come to zos's defence. I swear you guys simply enjoy disagreeing. So no stun? Just use the garbo healing stun? Or clench knockback that knocks players OUT OF SHALKS RANGE. You remember shalks, right? The main damaging skill?

ZarkingFrued

chrightt wrote: »

Magden is still quite potent in group content. The main issue is magplar is overperforming. Well, what can we do. Just wait another day for U24 patch notes and you’ll know if you should play a new char.

This comment is irrelevant to the discussion. I dont play grouped and made the point

Sanctum74

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Problem is that magden is absolutely op against new players, but useless against experienced ones. Not sure how they could balance that.

Describe how it's op please.

It's very tanky and does a ton of AOE damage that most new players don't know how or have the time to react to, but against good players it's very slow and telegraphed. It can be fun to wipe groups with, but very boring and less effective against good solo players.

LeHarrt91

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

show previous quotes

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Just because streamers dont play it doesnt mean its not possible to. Yes its harder to pull off than some of the other classes but that just makes the wins even better.

All you really need is Degen, Infection, Crushing and Northern Storm to kill most players and you dont need any fancy proc sets.

You gotta be joking lol. Didn't take long for someone to come to zos's defence. I swear you guys simply enjoy disagreeing. So no stun? Just use the garbo healing stun? Or clench knockback that knocks players OUT OF SHALKS RANGE. You remember shalks, right? The main damaging skill?

I have mained MagDen for a VERY long time... and i did not come to Zos's defence, i just stated that you can still run solo as a magden. And no i dont use a stun because the ones we have to choose from are crap, so i dropped fissure (which generally needs a stun to land) and added another DoT for more pressure.

ZarkingFrued

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

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ZarkingFrued wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Just because streamers dont play it doesnt mean its not possible to. Yes its harder to pull off than some of the other classes but that just makes the wins even better.

All you really need is Degen, Infection, Crushing and Northern Storm to kill most players and you dont need any fancy proc sets.

You gotta be joking lol. Didn't take long for someone to come to zos's defence. I swear you guys simply enjoy disagreeing. So no stun? Just use the garbo healing stun? Or clench knockback that knocks players OUT OF SHALKS RANGE. You remember shalks, right? The main damaging skill?

I have mained MagDen for a VERY long time... and i did not come to Zos's defence, i just stated that you can still run solo as a magden. And no i dont use a stun because the ones we have to choose from are crap, so i dropped fissure (which generally needs a stun to land) and added another DoT for more pressure.

This class has absolutely no competition for worst possible pvp class in the game. Its absolute hot garbage. Let's be careful and not even insinuate anything else. Even the worst class is playable.

ZarkingFrued

Sanctum74 wrote: »

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ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Problem is that magden is absolutely op against new players, but useless against experienced ones. Not sure how they could balance that.

Describe how it's op please.

It's very tanky and does a ton of AOE damage that most new players don't know how or have the time to react to, but against good players it's very slow and telegraphed. It can be fun to wipe groups with, but very boring and less effective against good solo players.

Why does anyone care about new players? You shouldn't start a game winning but Zos literally caters to them.

ZarkingFrued

Hey I figured out a setup that works! It's called switching to another pvp class since I have them all. Literally the only way to reliably play this game. gg ZOS

ESO_Nightingale

Sanctum74 wrote: »

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ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Problem is that magden is absolutely op against new players, but useless against experienced ones. Not sure how they could balance that.

Describe how it's op please.

It's very tanky and does a ton of AOE damage that most new players don't know how or have the time to react to, but against good players it's very slow and telegraphed. It can be fun to wipe groups with, but very boring and less effective against good solo players.

I see, i believe these aren't problems that can't be fixed. Everyone builds tanky. The majority of our AoE damage comes from Deep Fissure and has counterplay, our single target burst damage is not as comparable to other classes as Dive doesn't work quite as well as it once did in combos, our Bear ultimate is extremely unreliable, is a pet with a hitbox (and therefore health) and requires 2 ultimate slots and rarely ever hits with our burst, and it's extremely hard to even get the execute effect to work. I really think the only way to beat magden is to get better at the game.

Though they can certainly make other morphs of tanky skills more appealing to the damage dealers, such as making expansive frost cloak more attractive and making Arctic Blast actually damage instead of healing.

ESO_Nightingale

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

show previous quotes

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Just because streamers dont play it doesnt mean its not possible to. Yes its harder to pull off than some of the other classes but that just makes the wins even better.

All you really need is Degen, Infection, Crushing and Northern Storm to kill most players and you dont need any fancy proc sets.

You gotta be joking lol. Didn't take long for someone to come to zos's defence. I swear you guys simply enjoy disagreeing. So no stun? Just use the garbo healing stun? Or clench knockback that knocks players OUT OF SHALKS RANGE. You remember shalks, right? The main damaging skill?

He isn't going to ZOS's defence. He is one of the few people who actively discuss warden's issues.

Sanctum74

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sanctum74 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Problem is that magden is absolutely op against new players, but useless against experienced ones. Not sure how they could balance that.

Describe how it's op please.

It's very tanky and does a ton of AOE damage that most new players don't know how or have the time to react to, but against good players it's very slow and telegraphed. It can be fun to wipe groups with, but very boring and less effective against good solo players.

Why does anyone care about new players? You shouldn't start a game winning but Zos literally caters to them.

Zos should care about all players, I was only responding to the question of how they are op. Imo it's the easiest class for bombing and wiping less experienced groups, but less effective in a 1v1 against an experienced player. That sounds balanced to me, shouldn't expect it to excel at everything.

Took me years to get a star on my magplar, but only a few months to get 5 stars on my magden, doesn't sound like RIP to me, you just gotta learn to play to its strengths.

LeHarrt91

What are you running to make you think this? Sure, MagDen is not as good as MagPlar at the moment, but they buffed the hell out of 2 DoTs that deal Magic Damage in which Wardens get a buff too.

But tomorrow there will be new Patch Notes, which they have said they will focus on Wardens.
Im not trying to disagree with you for the sake of it but they are not 'Hot Garbage' as you say.

ZarkingFrued

Sanctum74 wrote: »

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ZarkingFrued wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Problem is that magden is absolutely op against new players, but useless against experienced ones. Not sure how they could balance that.

Describe how it's op please.

It's very tanky and does a ton of AOE damage that most new players don't know how or have the time to react to, but against good players it's very slow and telegraphed. It can be fun to wipe groups with, but very boring and less effective against good solo players.

Why does anyone care about new players? You shouldn't start a game winning but Zos literally caters to them.

Zos should care about all players, I was only responding to the question of how they are op. Imo it's the easiest class for bombing and wiping less experienced groups, but less effective in a 1v1 against an experienced player. That sounds balanced to me, shouldn't expect it to excel at everything.

Took me years to get a star on my magplar, but only a few months to get 5 stars on my magden, doesn't sound like RIP to me, you just gotta learn to play to its strengths.

Were talking about different worlds lol. I'm not bombing groups, I'm not dueling, Im not grouped, im playing the game solo. I haven't been in a group in years, and I'm simply trying to explain to Zos that this class is junk to the point where no one touches it. I've spent multiple evenings trying to make it work. It's been rather annoying really.

ZarkingFrued

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

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ZarkingFrued wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Just because streamers dont play it doesnt mean its not possible to. Yes its harder to pull off than some of the other classes but that just makes the wins even better.

All you really need is Degen, Infection, Crushing and Northern Storm to kill most players and you dont need any fancy proc sets.

You gotta be joking lol. Didn't take long for someone to come to zos's defence. I swear you guys simply enjoy disagreeing. So no stun? Just use the garbo healing stun? Or clench knockback that knocks players OUT OF SHALKS RANGE. You remember shalks, right? The main damaging skill?

He isn't going to ZOS's defence. He is one of the few people who actively discuss warden's issues.

Pretending that you can successfully be solo on this class is defending Zos's changes that have left Warden garbage. Anyhow I've decided to put it on the back burner, sadly with the only discussion coming from the community being the same as for magcro then it won't change. I'll be playing other classes this patch, just thought I'd let zos know and maybe some other solo players will join the discussion

Sanctum74

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

show previous quotes

Sanctum74 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Problem is that magden is absolutely op against new players, but useless against experienced ones. Not sure how they could balance that.

Describe how it's op please.

It's very tanky and does a ton of AOE damage that most new players don't know how or have the time to react to, but against good players it's very slow and telegraphed. It can be fun to wipe groups with, but very boring and less effective against good solo players.

I see, i believe these aren't problems that can't be fixed. Everyone builds tanky. The majority of our AoE damage comes from Deep Fissure and has counterplay, our single target burst damage is not as comparable to other classes as Dive doesn't work quite as well as it once did in combos, our Bear ultimate is extremely unreliable, is a pet with a hitbox (and therefore health) and requires 2 ultimate slots and rarely ever hits with our burst, and it's extremely hard to even get the execute effect to work. I really think the only way to beat magden is to get better at the game.

Though they can certainly make other morphs of tanky skills more appealing to the damage dealers, such as making expansive frost cloak more attractive and making Arctic Blast actually damage instead of healing.

Great points, but I think the bear is more just for role players at this point, no real reason to slot it. The problem is that how do you improve a class that excels at potato mashing and make it better in 1v1 without making it too op.

Maybe it's just me, but I've accepted that some classes are better at wiping groups and some better at 1v1. I kinda like it this way to add variety to combat instead of just every class does the same thing, aka boring.

ZarkingFrued

Sanctum74 wrote: »

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ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Problem is that magden is absolutely op against new players, but useless against experienced ones. Not sure how they could balance that.

Describe how it's op please.

It's very tanky and does a ton of AOE damage that most new players don't know how or have the time to react to, but against good players it's very slow and telegraphed. It can be fun to wipe groups with, but very boring and less effective against good solo players.

I see, i believe these aren't problems that can't be fixed. Everyone builds tanky. The majority of our AoE damage comes from Deep Fissure and has counterplay, our single target burst damage is not as comparable to other classes as Dive doesn't work quite as well as it once did in combos, our Bear ultimate is extremely unreliable, is a pet with a hitbox (and therefore health) and requires 2 ultimate slots and rarely ever hits with our burst, and it's extremely hard to even get the execute effect to work. I really think the only way to beat magden is to get better at the game.

Though they can certainly make other morphs of tanky skills more appealing to the damage dealers, such as making expansive frost cloak more attractive and making Arctic Blast actually damage instead of healing.

Great points, but I think the bear is more just for role players at this point, no real reason to slot it. The problem is that how do you improve a class that excels at potato mashing and make it better in 1v1 without making it too op.

Maybe it's just me, but I've accepted that some classes are better at wiping groups and some better at 1v1. I kinda like it this way to add variety to combat instead of just every class does the same thing, aka boring.

It's not mashing potatoes very well this patch either lol. Not worried about a 1v1 myself tbh

ZarkingFrued

I get that you guys are being optimistic, and I appreciate the ideas. I apologize if I sound like a jerk, but they really have made a mess of this for every build that has ever worked

ESO_Nightingale

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

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ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Just because streamers dont play it doesnt mean its not possible to. Yes its harder to pull off than some of the other classes but that just makes the wins even better.

All you really need is Degen, Infection, Crushing and Northern Storm to kill most players and you dont need any fancy proc sets.

You gotta be joking lol. Didn't take long for someone to come to zos's defence. I swear you guys simply enjoy disagreeing. So no stun? Just use the garbo healing stun? Or clench knockback that knocks players OUT OF SHALKS RANGE. You remember shalks, right? The main damaging skill?

He isn't going to ZOS's defence. He is one of the few people who actively discuss warden's issues.

Pretending that you can successfully be solo on this class is defending Zos's changes that have left Warden garbage. Anyhow I've decided to put it on the back burner, sadly with the only discussion coming from the community being the same as for magcro then it won't change. I'll be playing other classes this patch, just thought I'd let zos know and maybe some other solo players will join the discussion

We've been arguing for about a year and a half for this sort of stuff. You can solo right now though. It's by abusing the power of DoTs which will be adressed next patch. As much as i loathe to admit it if you know my extensive and somewhat cringy history reguarding magden, the class can be used solo this patch. I'm not happy with how magden is though, especially in pve and solo pvp content and it deserves more power to damage skills.

ZarkingFrued

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

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ZarkingFrued wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

Just because streamers dont play it doesnt mean its not possible to. Yes its harder to pull off than some of the other classes but that just makes the wins even better.

All you really need is Degen, Infection, Crushing and Northern Storm to kill most players and you dont need any fancy proc sets.

You gotta be joking lol. Didn't take long for someone to come to zos's defence. I swear you guys simply enjoy disagreeing. So no stun? Just use the garbo healing stun? Or clench knockback that knocks players OUT OF SHALKS RANGE. You remember shalks, right? The main damaging skill?

He isn't going to ZOS's defence. He is one of the few people who actively discuss warden's issues.

Pretending that you can successfully be solo on this class is defending Zos's changes that have left Warden garbage. Anyhow I've decided to put it on the back burner, sadly with the only discussion coming from the community being the same as for magcro then it won't change. I'll be playing other classes this patch, just thought I'd let zos know and maybe some other solo players will join the discussion

We've been arguing for about a year and a half for this sort of stuff. You can solo right now though. It's by abusing the power of DoTs which will be adressed next patch. As much as i loathe to admit it if you know my extensive and somewhat cringy history reguarding magden, the class can be used solo this patch. I'm not happy with how magden is though, especially in pve and solo pvp content and it deserves more power to damage skills.

Well I'll give it a shot, but I can't wrap my head around it lol

Sanctum74

Speed up the birds and a reliable stun and magden would be perfect. Anything more and they would be too op.

LeHarrt91

ZarkingFrued wrote: »

I get that you guys are being optimistic, and I appreciate the ideas. I apologize if I sound like a jerk, but they really have made a mess of this for every build that has ever worked

Yes we are trying to help, and from my point of view a lot of the issues that make solo harder now were the buffs to groups/ all the DoT buffs.

Whats your setup? As all the builds that use to work so well, no longer do

ESO_Nightingale

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Speed up the birds and a reliable stun and magden would be perfect. Anything more and they would be too op.

I personally think it needs more options for damage skills. But if arctic blast was a decent damage skill that could be used that'd be neat.

ESO_Nightingale

@ZarkingFrued if you'd like to continue discussion in a more live environment you can join the Class Discussion Discord and/or the ESO Frost Discord. It gets boring speaking to the same people all the time.

Let me know and I'll include the links.