Remove CP yes or no?

rpa

From my experiences I think CP style (in Wildstar Primal Matrix) slow veteran progression is a mistake. Splitting newer players from veterans with timegate not related to actual player skill and dedication (except lack of life) is not good.

ESO probably has large enough veteran population to survive it but in Wildstar when content actually requiring the veteran progression dropped, significant portion of endgame guilds found they could not recruit enough people to keep progressing. And what use is power if there is no content which requires it?

And if giving something nice like moar power to people is a mistake it is difficult to fix. Without making players seriously annoyed.

idk

teladoy wrote: »

They introduced the champion system as progression system, to give players a reason to continue playing.

This is not the reason CP was added so the entire OP is based on a false premise.

CP was added to replace the vet ranks which was an absurd second teir of leveling that was per character. It was specifically stated as such though it took Zos another couple years to figure out how they actually wanted to remove the vet ranks itself.

I edited out the rest of the OP because it was based on a false premise. Heck, I did not even bother reading it as such.

I realize not everyone has been here since the beginning or even at the start of the second year this game was live. Those who were would know the design fo the CP system did not have an artificial cap. It was the full 3600 points we could achieve. When Zos announced the CP system they expected the average player to reach the 3600 points in less than 2 years. hardly a long term progression system.

Edit: I read a tad bit more of the OP. They state it is their opinion that Zos would give us something better than would make the game more challenging but has not idea what this would be because it is just a stab in the dark This is just a guess based on nothing .

Jhalin

CP and armor tiers are quite literally the only vertical progression in this game

Ysbriel

Both the "remove CP" and "nerf" arguments are the ones Devs should really take with a grain of salt. CP is in no way a problem in PvP or PvE. there is a lot of low CP players that are able to do hard VET content and survive in PVP while ive seen people on the CP cap struggle on both sides. most of the times people comment about CP the only thing the state is that its "dumb" but never i have seen any technical, factual, well established explanation on why it should be removed and that includes this post.

Galarthor

Don't remove CPs. Removing them would make proc sets only more cheesy than they already are. Plus it would require a huge rebalancing of classes and skill lines, since they are currently balanced around CP. And to be honest, I don't really see this happening as ZOS is currently investing a lot of time and resources into rebalancing classes and skill lines on the basis of CP.

If ZOS were to remove the CP system we would most likely end up with a total balance mess, as ZOS won't be willing to invest that many resources again after such a short time.

bmnoble

No

But if they do rework the CP system into something new I want my current CP level taken into account for whatever the new system is and keep it account wide, have no desire to have to level the replacement from scratch, if I am already at the usable cap I expect to be at the equivalent cap for the new system being planned.

r34lian

I didn't just played for 3k hours to not one shot things

Haenk

At least for my character, unlocking CP would certainly increase my fighting skills a lot - so many wasted CPs only to get "treasure hunter" passive...
And the "power creep" argument is nonsense - they already implemented countermeasures into the CP system.

On the other hand, eventually everyone has all CP, so less variation. Maybe limit the CPs to some fix (but higher than now) number, but offer a lot more skills to broaden the possible builds.

starkerealm

max_only wrote: »

Op, they should have it be like this:



So if you go to max in one area you can’t in another area. Right now most of cp is distributed with everyone being a 4 in everything.

The problem, right now, is diminishing returns are structured so that you're going to have a very hard time pushing past, let's call it a "4" for no coherent reason. So, you can either have 4s in everything, or all 1s and a 5.

In a practical sense, the system does need another pass. It no longer needs to be designed around the idea that you need to protect the 160s from the 3600s.

LucyferLightbringer

HELL NO

zaria

max_only wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Shantu wrote: »

The CP system is fine and still viable as a skill progression feature. ZOS just needs to figure out what to do with CP's beyond the current 810 cap.

I think the blame placed on CP's for power creep is overblown and misplaced. I know plenty of 810 CP players who still can't fight their way out of a paper bag. Hell vet content is beyond the capability of the vast majority of players. If CP's were as powerful as they are claimed to be by some, we'd all be walking around in perfected gear.

They just need to increase the difficulty of non-DLC content.

It actually used to be more difficult, but the vanilla majority of the game community complained that it was too hard, so they dumbed it down to what it is today. They dumbed down much of the new dlc content as well, to give less skilled players paying customers a chance at completing content and enjoying rewards like skins.

Ftfy.

Now imagine that would happen if they simply removed CP.
Game would suddenly become 50% harder.

Sylvermynx

I'm okay with either option. I'll adapt. I find allocating CP to be a crapshoot so wouldn't bother me if it was gone, but I'd prefer they did something to continue showing progress after 50.

Master_Kas

NO! Unless they do a full rollback to 1.5 or before.

Before they took magicka/stamina/health and crit from us and added it to the CP system.

Yes they actually did this, if any newer players doesn't know. On top of nerfing skills and passives thanks to the CP system

I refuse to play a gimped version of nocp..

Bam_Bam

I vote to keep CP. way too many unnecessary changes already. CP gives us build diversity.

Viva la CP!

starkerealm

Master_Kas wrote: »

NO! Unless they do a full rollback to 1.5 or before.

Before they took magicka/stamina/health and crit from us and added it to the CP system.

Yes they actually did this, if any newer players doesn't know. On top of nerfing skills and passives thanks to the CP system

I refuse to play a gimped version of nocp..

Also, don't forget soft caps. That was a major function back then, where you could overspecialize in a single stat, but you got harsh diminishing returns, so the goal was to spread points around. Hell, there used to be viable, end game, Stam/Mag hybrids. Those are just a distant memory now.

NekoTashi

Commancho wrote: »

Wow seriously big issue. You would think this game is being ran by professionals. How about leave CP and make player to choose one of 3 trees : tank, DD, heal. In the perfect world each class would have additionally different tree.

Why do people like you try to implement features of other mmo's into this game?! If you like that system, then go play Perfect World. If all the games would have the same features, wouldn't that be boring af?! XD

I like the way things are right now. And I'd hate to see another great game to get screwed over by some of these suggestions mentioned above (like for example making it more difficult/challenging or any other crazy stuff). Minor changes are maybe okay, but don't overdo it.

TheShadowScout

teladoy wrote: »

They introduced the champion system as progression system, to give players a reason to continue playing.

I would disagree.

The "reason to keep playing" comes way more from new content to complete and new item options, crafting motivs and such to farm.

teladoy wrote: »

What do you think?

I think the CP system is great in a "no expee left behind" way.

See, that is what often vexed me in other MMORPGs... there is a level cap, you reach that, play at it for a while... and then they release an expansion, the level cap gues up, and you sit there thinking of all the expees you could have gotten in all the time playing at level cap, which would have carried you to the new level cap easily, and thus seem "wasted".
No such issue in ESO.

You gain CP for each and every playings, and you always get to have that warm, fuzzy "ding, you got better" feeling when they raise cap, and even at cap you still keep earning CP to be used the next time cap gets raised, and so on... even as you gain more and more CP, the actual power gains level off due to the diminishing returns thing so its not realyl that much of an thing, even though it is really neat to always have the feeling your characters are still growing...

...

I also think that removing the CP system is a very bad idea. Because people don't like it if you take away something they played for... even if you give them something else, it would have to be of similar design, and well... then you can just rework the thing anyhow, and bypass all those vexing feelings right?
And reworking the system though... well, that would be nifty, and I reckon they are...

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

ZOS confirmed they will be completely reworking the system. That's why they froze CP.

...yes. That.

I sure hope they will pick some things apart, make people pick and choose what they want to specialize in - those "catchemall" stars like "all magic damage up" or "all physical weapons bonus" kinda vex me a little... I'd much rather see people having a choice between a low bonus for everything or a higher bonus for just their specialized weapon or magic and so on... oh, well, I guess time will tell.

And really, nothing more needs be said on this I think.

vivisectvib16_ESO

Hell no. I've invested a lot of time getting those points and I want the perks that come with them.

MehrunesFlagon

Shantu wrote: »

The CP system is fine and still viable as a skill progression feature. ZOS just needs to figure out what to do with CP's beyond the current 810 cap.

I think the blame placed on CP's for power creep is overblown and misplaced. I know plenty of 810 CP players who still can't fight their way out of a paper bag. Hell vet content is beyond the capability of the vast majority of players. If CP's were as powerful as they are claimed to be by some, we'd all be walking around in perfected gear.

RNG is not that generous.

idk

vivisectvib16_ESO wrote: »

Hell no. I've invested a lot of time getting those points and I want the perks that come with them.

Pretty sure the Devs are aware that gamers get a little miffed when you take something away from them you made them earn. That is why we gained points based on our vet ranks to a point. So yea, CP is not going to be abandoned totally. It may change but Zos is not going to totally trash what they made us work for.

master_vanargand

It would be great if there was a better system than CP.
But I don't think ZOS can create it.

Commancho

NekoTashi wrote: »

Commancho wrote: »

Wow seriously big issue. You would think this game is being ran by professionals. How about leave CP and make player to choose one of 3 trees : tank, DD, heal. In the perfect world each class would have additionally different tree.

Why do people like you try to implement features of other mmo's into this game?! If you like that system, then go play Perfect World. If all the games would have the same features, wouldn't that be boring af?! XD

I like the way things are right now. And I'd hate to see another great game to get screwed over by some of these suggestions mentioned above (like for example making it more difficult/challenging or any other crazy stuff). Minor changes are maybe okay, but don't overdo it.

The point is that ZOS is reworking it already so I would rather keep current system with more specialized perks than remove it or nerf it into oblivion.

Kagukan

Keep CP. It allows for more customized builds.

BringerOfOmens

I personally hate caps of any kind in game. It is an anti-motivator for players that want to earn everything in the game. CP being blamed for power creep is just silly. If we cant progress our toons and get more powerful as time goes on, what is the point?

Nordic__Knights

BringerOfOmens wrote: »

I personally hate caps of any kind in game. It is an anti-motivator for players that want to earn everything in the game. CP being blamed for power creep is just silly. If we cant progress our toons and get more powerful as time goes on, what is the point?

Whats the point in playing a game that your going nowhere idk reason i haven't played iin over 2 weeks sick of it to be honest poor game maintenance ,balance changes, rework of skills all of which has messed up the game for the most part and being lock out of gaining 3600cp so to fell ive completed the game in more ways than just getting Platinum title for having everything completed from the base game though we can never finish off CP tree as well because it's locked from us
So im happy at 1330cp holding out to play in hopes of things getting better and fixed in a way that every 3rd month i have to spend 600k to re vamp all 16 toons because the game changed up again

Turelus

Yes.

Saril_Durzam

Cps give each a tiny buff, meaning you still have to look foward getting exp without feeling too overpowered. CPs are fine, Everquest created *** which are similar, like 15 years ago.

Maybe, just maybe, we could think about adding true levels on future expansions. Like, lets say, 5 levels. This way means could get new skills which would be welcomed (maybe one more class skill per line), and also you would be forced to switch gear which after so many years, it´s also good.

Then, you could add on some expansion 5 lvls more. And so.

zaria

starkerealm wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

NO! Unless they do a full rollback to 1.5 or before.

Before they took magicka/stamina/health and crit from us and added it to the CP system.

Yes they actually did this, if any newer players doesn't know. On top of nerfing skills and passives thanks to the CP system

I refuse to play a gimped version of nocp..

Also, don't forget soft caps. That was a major function back then, where you could overspecialize in a single stat, but you got harsh diminishing returns, so the goal was to spread points around. Hell, there used to be viable, end game, Stam/Mag hybrids. Those are just a distant memory now.

Note that hybrids still has an issue with spell / weapon damage and crit.

But yes diminishing return was why the racial passives passed beta. Remember protesting against and and was told they did not matter because of diminishing return.
Well it worked out well for us and for the Dunmers in the end, yes Khajiit need an small buff.

But they dropped the racial ultimate who could be fun if handled correctly as in very niche. Remember calling out
Negates on executes on vAA back then it was just AA and probably as hard as HM AA is today or harder.

Witar

Lol people spent years grinding cp and you just wanna get rid of it just like that? That's just stupid and will end in most long playing gamers leaving the game.

TheInfernalRage

First and foremost, fix combat like getting rid of animation cancelling and weaving. I want to fight big baddies the same way I fight those mythical monsters in AC Odyssey or Monster Hunter World.