Gay in ESO

ArchMikem

Why is this a question?

Ackwalan wrote: »

What's ironic, you can advertise a LGBT guild but you can't advertise a hetero guild.

That's REALLY sad.

Mitrenga

ESO is next level.
You cna even romance/have intercourse between different races.

Vicarra

I'm not sure I understand the OP. Are they referring to ingame instances? Or players?

In game, I enjoy the fact that it's considered so unremarkable, that characters openly refer to their same-sex husband or wife, and there are characters who are trans who discuss it as though it's perfectly normal. I love it that it's not a "big deal", because it shouldn't be. This has always been a franchise that espouses player freedom above almost anything else. In the single-player games I found it refreshing that I wasn't limited to marrying female characters just because my own toon is male. And I really appreciate the fact that sexual preference isn't grounds for being attacked by NPCs.

As far as players go, I don't often see people using "gay" as a perjorative. If I do, I just block the person because I immediately know it's not someone I want to be friends with. If another player came out to me as gay or trans, I would behave the same as I do IRL. While it may not be a big deal to me if someone is LGBT+, I know that there are a lot of players living in parts of the world where it's illegal to even be who they are, and maybe this (the online world/ESO) is the only place they feel comfortable being themselves. So, I would always try to be supportive and to let them know that they have an ally in me, even if that's not of much practical help in their day-to-day. You never know how much it can help someone to know that they're not alone when they might feel they are in their real life.

I look forward to the days, in future decades, when pride parades and the whole "coming out" process are no longer seen as necessary, because people can just be who they are without fear of being beaten up, imprisoned, shunned by family members, or killed for it.

Royalthought

Tavore1138 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

amapola76 wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

The real issue is why?

Playing for years and never understood why what people are into has to be promoted on a video game of all places.

When being validated has to do with the attention you get from others, the real issue is a personal one.

Search the forums and see how rare it is that people "come out," announcing they're a Eskimos, married, politicians, gymnasts, Asians, Africans, etc..

There's 1 group that does it all the time. No other group projects themselves as afraid if they don't project their status in the eyes of everyone in the world.

Let that sink in.

Oh, that's just not even remotely true. I see people mention all kinds of personal facts about themselves all the time on the forum: whether they are married or have a boyfriend/girlfriend, what they do for a living, what pets they have, what country they live in, what their non-gaming hobbies are, etc. People should be comfortable mentioning as much or as little about themselves as they like, as long it's pursuant to the forum rules, and orientation is no exception to that.

OP asked a perfectly reasonable question, as online harassment is sadly still a thing, particularly for members of historically oppressed groups. That being said, I will agree with other posts above and note that *for the most part* ESO is a friendly place and I have seen relatively little harassment compared to other games I have played over the last 15 years or so. But OP, it ultimately all comes down to your personal comfortable level. Just know that there are people out there who will have your back if you are harassed.

You're wrong. Most groups have no issue mentioning anything about themselves if the topic comes up. That's missing the point.

However they do not consider themselves afriad for not coming out. They don't project any need for such attention.

There are groups, african, natives, etc. that have faced far and away greater oppression than that yet they dont have coming out events. That is a culture particular to one group.

Taking a wild guess there is a quite obvious legitimate reasons for that - 'coming out' is something that tends to be done to people that the person already knows and has pre-existing relationships with - whereas it is pretty unlikely that you are going to reach the age of 18 or 20 or whatever without your family realising you are the same race as they are or your peer group taking a wild guess at your skin tone it is quite possible that someone's family and close friends may not know that they are 'gay'. Therefore the coming out process might well lead to the loss of what were previously fine family or friend relationships in a way that simply being one of those groups will not.

So the oppression level may be less but the cost in losing previously good relations with friends or family could be much higher (although their are still nations where it is punishable by death and others where acceptance might be on the surface only)

That's not what we are discussing. People discuss any and everything with those they are close to. People of every background. That's not what we are discussing.

We are talking about being afraid to "come out" on a video game forum. Coming out on eso. To consider yourself afraid if you don't broadcast what your into to complete strangers on platforms where it isn't relevant. No other group, in spite of the horrors they've endured, does that.

And again, it's wrong to say the cost is higher. World history has done far worst to people for simply existing. No choice involved.

SidraWillowsky

Reverb wrote: »

There are several openly homosexual NPC characters in eso, and in past Elder Scrolls games. It’s a non-event.

Can I just say that I LOVE how TES franchise does this? I really respect how the game portrays same-sex relationships. I also respect how it portrays women- they're not overly-sexualized and a woman in a position of power is also a non-event.

Sad that it's so rare that I have to comment, but yeah. Props.

J2JMC

Ackwalan wrote: »

What's ironic, you can advertise a LFBT guild but you can't advertise a hetro guild.

There's nothing ironic about it.

Most people are straight. Anonymous online communities tend to be more openly homophobic relative to the rest of the population. LGBT friendly guilds are nice for gay people who want to avoid harassment. You don't see advertising for straight guilds because it's never been a thing straight people wanted. Straight people haven't wanted it because they do not face harassment for their sexuality, so they find no need for exclusively straight guilds.

Of course, I'm only speaking from the experiences of me and my peers. Maybe you have been harassed because you were straight. If that's the case, feel free to make a guild where you and other straight people can be safe from harassment. I actually don't think ZOS will stop you since it's not against the TOS as far as I'm aware.

amapola76

It's funny how often people who are not part of a group that has experienced oppression like to try to pit groups of people who have against each other. It doesn't really matter what you, as someone who hasn't experienced oppression, harassment, etc., think is worse. It matters what other people's lived experiences are. Who are you to tell someone else whether they should be afraid or not? Have you lived in their shoes? And why are you even, here, complaining about it? If you don't think it's a big deal, why are you even here to comment?

Racism is bad. Homophobia is bad. Sexism is bad. All forms of discrimination are bad... and they do exist, and they do negatively impact people's lives. Just because you haven't personally experienced it, doesn't mean you know whether it's a problem or not.

I mean, for Pete's sake, are parents these days not raising their kids to read books and listen to other people when they talk? (Rhetorical question: clearly they are not.) Empathy is a life skill, and it seems like an awful lot of parents are failing to teach it to their children.

amapola76

J2JMC wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

What's ironic, you can advertise a LFBT guild but you can't advertise a hetro guild.

There's nothing ironic about it.

Most people are straight. Anonymous online communities tend to be more openly homophobic relative to the rest of the population. LGBT friendly guilds are nice for gay people who want to avoid harassment. You don't see advertising for straight guilds because it's never been a thing straight people wanted. Straight people haven't wanted it because they do not face harassment for their sexuality, so they find no need for exclusively straight guilds.

Of course, I'm only speaking from the experiences of me and my peers. Maybe you have been harassed because you were straight. If that's the case, feel free to make a guild where you and other straight people can be safe from harassment. I actually don't think ZOS will stop you since it's not against the TOS as far as I'm aware.

Yes, not to mention that every time I have seen someone advertise for a LGBT+ guild, it is usually described as "LGBT-friendly." Straight people are not excluded; they can join, they just have to agree to not be jerks to gay people.

SidraWillowsky

amapola76 wrote: »

J2JMC wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

What's ironic, you can advertise a LFBT guild but you can't advertise a hetro guild.

There's nothing ironic about it.

Most people are straight. Anonymous online communities tend to be more openly homophobic relative to the rest of the population. LGBT friendly guilds are nice for gay people who want to avoid harassment. You don't see advertising for straight guilds because it's never been a thing straight people wanted. Straight people haven't wanted it because they do not face harassment for their sexuality, so they find no need for exclusively straight guilds.

Of course, I'm only speaking from the experiences of me and my peers. Maybe you have been harassed because you were straight. If that's the case, feel free to make a guild where you and other straight people can be safe from harassment. I actually don't think ZOS will stop you since it's not against the TOS as far as I'm aware.

Yes, not to mention that every time I have seen someone advertise for a LGBT+ guild, it is usually described as "LGBT-friendly." Straight people are not excluded; they can join, they just have to agree to not be jerks to gay people.

I can't tell if the poster who mentioned the "irony" was serious or not. I thought it was a joke TBH, but I forget that ESO attracts a much wider variety of people than I surround myself with IRL. No one I know would say that with a straight face.

Anyway yeah. Straight is the default. White is the default. Male is the default, at least in the video game world- everyone assumes I'm a dude from the get-go, and I'd prefer that. Several times, things have gotten REAL weird when someone learns that I'm a woman. I bet the same has happened for people who identify as LGBT+.

I can't speak for the LGBT+ individuals since I'm straight, but personally, I'm never open about my gender unless I'm in a "safe" space. I think that the term "safe space" has been tied to a happy care bear bubble where people are coddled, but all it means to me personally is that I'm in a place where I can be open about things and there's no immediate change in how I'm treated. Because, without fail, if people learn that I'm not a dude in other situations (it they ask explicitly I'll tell them, or if I'm in a pug with voice chat), there's an immediate shift in how I'm treated. For me it's almost always that I'm treated better, but I imagine it's MUCH more of a tossup for LGBT+ individuals in terms of the positivity or negativity in which the "news" of their sexual or gender orientation is received.

I made this about gender when it's about LGBT+, sorry- just sayin' I can relate, kind of; if it's THAT big of a deal when some players learn I'm not a dude, I cannot even imagine how it must be for people who identify as LGBT+...

dogman

why the *** do i gotta see this kind of threads i just wanna kill dragons *** off with your fetishes

ZonasArch

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Gay is the new Straight.

It would definitely make for a more light hearted world, that's for sure.

zParallaxz

Lazarus_Rising wrote: »

who cares if you gay or hetro? It's just a normal thing.

Thank you for your opinion, however I disagree

zParallaxz

dogman wrote: »

why the *** do i gotta see this kind of threads i just wanna kill dragons *** off with your fetishes

Exactly

ZonasArch

jazsper77 wrote: »

Don’t worry I’m sure we’ll get a Parade event at some point.

That would be freaking awesome though... How many gaming companies would have the proverbial balls?

And I'll tell you what, I'm not even gay and I would still jump in right away.

xMovingTarget

Mizaeron wrote: »

Do more people come out, or still afraid

lol miza

craybest

there are some ingame parades in gw2 and ffxiv for pride, i don't know if we have them in here.

zParallaxz

Royalthought wrote: »

The real issue is why?

Playing for years and never understood why what people are into has to be promoted on a video game of all places.

When being validated has to do with the attention you get from others, the real issue is a personal one.

Search the forums and see how rare it is that people "come out," announcing they're a Eskimos, married, politicians, gymnasts, Asians, Africans, etc..

There's 1 group that does it all the time. No other group labels themselves as afraid if they don't project their status in the eyes of everyone in the world.

Let that sink in.

I know exactly how you feel, I’m African American but it never came to my mind to make a group called “African American Only Guild”. Have I received racial epithets, jokes, and stereotypes in game and irl? Hell yeah, but I don’t think it’s right to form a group that distinguishes from the crowd. In my opinion, when you create groups that exclude others regardless of what you identify as. I view you in the same light as a “White Person Only Group”.

amapola76

dogman wrote: »

why the *** do i gotta see this kind of threads i just wanna kill dragons *** off with your fetishes

Apparently because you chose to click on it and respond.

Stibbons

I think they should make Sai Sahan come out and tell that he is gay.

Vhozek

What?

ArchMikem

ZonasArch wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

Gay is the new Straight.

It would definitely make for a more light hearted world, that's for sure.

And also the end of the species.

zParallaxz

Let me be that guy to stir the pot and make a “All Black Group/ Black Power” guild. Or would that be discriminating against other groups because they don’t have the same color as skin as me? I’m sorry but coming from someone who’s received discrimination, there is a particular group that feels the need to stand out even though they’ve received far less discrimination compared to other groups like Jewish people. Imagine a “Jewish Only Group”

MLGProPlayer

zParallaxz wrote: »

Let me be that guy to stir the pot and make a “All Black Group/ Black Power” guild. Or would that be discriminating against other groups because they don’t have the same color as skin as me? I’m sorry but coming from someone who’s received discrimination, there is a particular group that feels the need to stand out even though they’ve received far less discrimination compared to other groups like Jewish people. Imagine a “Jewish Only Group”

None of these groups are exclusionary...

They accept anyone who isn't a bigot. They just serve a specific community interest. If you're straight but you want to show your support, nobody is going to tell you that you can't join.

I’m sorry but coming from someone who’s received discrimination, there is a particular group that feels the need to stand out even though they’ve received far less discrimination compared to other groups

Homosexuality was punishable by death for most of recorded history. Germany in WW2 (the name of their leader is censored on here) outright tried to exterminate the LGBT population. But I guess that isn't discrimination.

craybest

zParallaxz wrote: »

Let me be that guy to stir the pot and make a “All Black Group/ Black Power” guild. Or would that be discriminating against other groups because they don’t have the same color as skin as me? I’m sorry but coming from someone who’s received discrimination, there is a particular group that feels the need to stand out even though they’ve received far less discrimination compared to other groups like Jewish people. Imagine a “Jewish Only Group”

like it was already said, most (if not all) of those lgbtq guilds, are not exclusive to only lgbtq people, but lgbtq friendly. you can be straight and still join, but it's somewhere lgbtq people know they can talk and chat not worrying to be called names or bullied. simple as that.

SidraWillowsky

dogman wrote: »

why the *** do i gotta see this kind of threads i just wanna kill dragons *** off with your fetishes

...did you just write off all non-straight sexual orientations as "fetishes"?

jnjdun_ESO

Why can't we all just leave our bedroom preferences in the bedroom?

ArchMikem

SidraWillowsky wrote: »

dogman wrote: »

why the *** do i gotta see this kind of threads i just wanna kill dragons *** off with your fetishes

...did you just write off all non-straight sexual orientations as "fetishes"?

amapola76

zParallaxz wrote: »

Let me be that guy to stir the pot and make a “All Black Group/ Black Power” guild. Or would that be discriminating against other groups because they don’t have the same color as skin as me? I’m sorry but coming from someone who’s received discrimination, there is a particular group that feels the need to stand out even though they’ve received far less discrimination compared to other groups like Jewish people. Imagine a “Jewish Only Group”

In the game, as in the real-world, there are affinity groups, but they do not exclude people.

There are LGBT+-friendly groups, but straight people are generally allowed to join, they just can't harass gay people. Not being rude to guild members or to other players in the game is an entirely legitimate and reasonable ground rule for any guild.

Similarly, in the real world, for example:

White people can join the NAACP
Straight people can join the HRC
Men can participate in NOW
Non-Jewish people can belong to the Anti Defamation League

Again, these groups do not exclude people any more than affinity guilds do. They have certain goals and priorities that are focused on the protection of oppressed groups, but allies are always welcome.

Similarly, if you want to create a guild that is centered around anti-racism efforts in the game and prioritizes the needs of black members of the guild, then I think you would find many people supportive of that effort.

ArchMikem

You all know this thread's gonna get locked when Gina and her crew clock back in Monday.

SidraWillowsky

ArchMikem wrote: »

You all know this thread's gonna get locked when Gina and her crew clock back in Monday.

I wish that they'd leave threads like this open for discussion, so long as the discussion remains civil. I've seen negative reactions in-game to guilds advertised as LGBT+ inclusive and I *do* think it's important to discuss...